Patch 10.3 - New event, PvP marks changes, changes to knowledge slots and other fixes

[Jack Frost]

Just now, JG14_Cuzn said:

1 hour killing a human with his trader....5 combat marks.

boarded an AI Brig..... 3 minutes.... 2 combat marks.    

Booo.   poor system

it needs a little tweaking (increased pvp rewards) but the system itself is promising IMO.

[Hodo]

1 minute ago, JG14_Cuzn said:

1 hour killing a human with his trader....5 combat marks.

boarded an AI Brig..... 3 minutes.... 2 combat marks.    

Booo.   poor system

You got 5 marks.. LOL I only got 2, and I was in a Lynx vs a Trader Brig that was armed.  

I get more marks from hunting AI ships.

[Kanay]

4 hours ago, Armored_Sheep said:

Did someone noticed how are PvE missions balanced? After the wipe NPC enemies are not that easy to kill. You cannot go easy missions safely with higher class ship. I find more challenging and entertaining to kill solo a fleet of NPCs rather than fight solo ganking fleet of players - because coordinated group does not need skilled individuals. When players fight other players there is no game mechanic to avoid superior number advantage. You cannot force players to conduct "fair" fights. Devs removed game lobby so no-one can today compete in tournaments - the only place to compete fair way.

this is what i got yesterday after the patch :

I just can imagine a new player in one of his first nice ships going for a M&C mission,  not knowing exactly how deadly this encounter might be if he decides to go for the Frigate and not make a u-turn directly at the start.

Before yesterday's patch i did not had such differences, also now it seems that it's mostly 2 ships to fight in M&C missions when it was only one before this patch, and even if you destroy the front bow mast on one of them, his magical nav skills allows it to stay on you and damage you non stop while you try to focus on the other ship to get rid of one of them and come back for the other later.

New players might have it very hard with this balancing.


 

Edited June 22, 2017 by Kanay

[Sir Texas Sir]

17 minutes ago, Kanay said:

this is what i got yesterday after the patch :

I just can imagine a new player in one of his first nice ships going for a M&C mission,  not knowing exactly how deadly this encounter might be if he decides to go for the Frigate and not make a u-turn directly at the start.

Before yesterday's patch i did not had such differences, also now it seems that it's mostly 2 ships to fight in M&C missions when it was only one before this patch, and even if you destroy the front bow mast on one of them, his magical nav skills allows it to stay on you and damage you non stop while you try to focus on the other ship to get rid of one of them and come back for the other later.

New players might have it very hard with this balancing.


 

M&C is 250 crew, why are you doing them still in a Cerberus?  Your doing a level ship higher than the ship your in.  Just cause your a that rank doesn't mean that is the ships you will get.  Frigate vs something of the MC level can be done.  To me by time your Rank 6 in your nation your not a new player any more.  

I been grinding up my Aggy up today for slots and all I get in 5th rate missions are either 5th rate Endy/Inflatables/Trincs or a Connie once in a blue moon.  Been pretty fair match up.  These are all Ravager (350 crew or Captain level).

These aren't suppose to be easy cake walk missions after all what fun will that be. If your having problems than hit something on the OW that is lower rank than your ship is.  Remember fight what your ship can handle not what your rank is.

[Hodo]

2 minutes ago, Sir Texas Sir said:

These aren't suppose to be easy cake walk missions after all what fun will that be. If your having problems than hit something on the OW that is lower rank than your ship is.  Remember fight what your ship can handle not what your rank is.

More importantly never fight more than your skill can handle. 

I dont know how many people I have run into that have no business in a 5th rate let alone a 4th rate or bigger.   

[Capn Rocko]

46 minutes ago, JG14_Cuzn said:

1 hour killing a human with his trader....5 combat marks.

boarded an AI Brig..... 3 minutes.... 2 combat marks.    

Booo.   poor system

I have the same gripe but I am confident that the devs will find a way to give better incentives for PvP. The problem with the PvP marks was that players where alt farming them. I don't see this as a care bear issue, but rather an exploit issue that was quickly getting out of hand. 

Just a reminder, while people are opting out of PvP and complaining on the forums, players are still sailing the seas with loads of valuable items and goods. I scored 700 white oak today off an enemy trader. That in itself is a better reward than the 1 PvP mark I would have earned from the old system. 

[Hodo]

3 minutes ago, Capn Rocko said:

I have the same gripe but I am confident that the devs will find a way to give better incentives for PvP. The problem with the PvP marks was that players where alt farming them. I don't see this as a care bear issue, but rather an exploit issue that was quickly getting out of hand. 

Just a reminder, while people are opting out of PvP and complaining on the forums, players are still sailing the seas with loads of valuable items and goods. I scored 700 white oak today off an enemy trader. That in itself is a better reward than the 1 PvP mark I would have earned from the old system. 

The problem isnt just alt farming.  It is just the broken nature of this new combat mark system.  For those of us who had PVP marks and earned them fighting were just screwed.  That is what people are pissed at.  That and the other factor of WHY bother PVPing or trade hunting, which is FAR more historically accurate that the BS port battle screening or port battles that every has a hard-on for.   This is kind of the issue.  

While I have a chance at capturing a trade ship that MIGHT have something valuable in it, there is a bigger chance of it being empty.  Then there is the factor of the ship itself not being worth much.   I think I can dump a trade brig for around 30-50k depending on the market.   I can make that doing a 6th rate fleet mission by myself in a navy brig in half the time and a 1/4 of the risk.   Not to mention get better loot, and more combat marks.  So why not do PVE missions?  Why bother doing PVP at all?

 

[Liq]

6 minutes ago, Hodo said:

That and the other factor of WHY bother PVPing

Why bother playing at all then?

Game's supposed to be fun? Now players can acess / replace upgrades / permits etc. more easily and therefore may be willing to risk more

I did tons of pvp pre wipe not even looking at how much I earned, gold wise, if I wanted to become rich (which wasnt needed at a point anymore :p) I could just have afk sailed indiamans, which I didn't do for very long as it turned out to be the most boring thing I ever did in that game lol

But I agree; ratio of pvp - pve combat marks earnings is too low right now. 1:5 would be more appropriate IMO.

Edited June 22, 2017 by Liquicity

[Hodo]

2 minutes ago, springby said:

FYI as I write this reply I'm sailing a brig (I have 1100 crew) aint mad at all, I didn't mean to sound angry in any way, I've been spoiled also, we all been spoiled. But I also think that the reward should follow the risk. A 6th rate currently cost more than the 7th-6th mission yields, I hope that we aren't suppose to earn gold enough for an entire ship just by doing 1 mission - even though personally I'm not too keen of the small ship PvE. The price of the smaller ships will decrease as the supply increase. It's just in the beginning.

Running missions is currently the biggest money maker a non-trade oriented player can do.  You in a Navy Brig (6th Rate) can run 6th rate fleet missions alone and make 15-25k and earn 12-15 marks, in around 45min.  

Or you can spend an hour to hunt for 1 player in a trader brig, that may have 18 guns on it, and nearly match you firepower wise, and deal with them pounding your ship while they try and get away.   Or worse, you do this fight in a Lynx or Privateer, or even a Pickle and you are now out gunned, by a trade ship!  

So if I defeat this ship, I am to expect to get nothing because of I am in a combat ship vs their trade ship, that is armed.  LOL...  If that were the case I would just hunt NPC LGVs and make more per hour and have not a care in the world.

[Benass]

11 minutes ago, Hodo said:

The problem isnt just alt farming.  It is just the broken nature of this new combat mark system.  For those of us who had PVP marks and earned them fighting were just screwed.  That is what people are pissed at.  That and the other factor of WHY bother PVPing or trade hunting, which is FAR more historically accurate that the BS port battle screening or port battles that every has a hard-on for.   This is kind of the issue.  

While I have a chance at capturing a trade ship that MIGHT have something valuable in it, there is a bigger chance of it being empty.  Then there is the factor of the ship itself not being worth much.   I think I can dump a trade brig for around 30-50k depending on the market.   I can make that doing a 6th rate fleet mission by myself in a navy brig in half the time and a 1/4 of the risk.   Not to mention get better loot, and more combat marks.  So why not do PVE missions?  Why bother doing PVP at all?

 

Sir, have you forgot, you playing early access game. It means you are testing ideas good or bad, you give your opinion on forums, its all part of Testing.

Devs gathering data, they value every ones opinion, and hope they are making notes.  

If you want steady game, well w8 till it gets best features in place and launches in steady form.   

 

Keep posting your ups and down, but please dont act like you are entitled in some kind of stability. 

All and all i agree, it can be frustrating, but hey we are testers.

[JobaSet]

1 minute ago, Benass said:

Sir, have you forgot, you playing early access game. It means you are testing ideas good or bad, you give your opinion on forums, its all part of Testing.

Devs gathering data, they value every ones opinion, and hope they are making notes.  

If you want steady game, well w8 till it gets best features in place and launches in steady form.   

 

Keep posting your ups and down, but please dont act like you are entitled in some kind of stability. 

All and all i agree, it can be frustrating, but hey we are testers.

DUDE the only way thing change is the Carebears cry so much and the Devs cave over and over and over and over......... Proven FACT its about 30 guys that whine and cry when they don't get their way.   That what keeps breaking the system.....  End of Story

[Prater]

I like that traders can have guns now.  They may be a little too overgunned, but it is always a surprise, because some don't want the weight and speed going to guns, while others do.  One thing is clear, hunters will have to adapt some way.  Maybe the days of pure speed rigs are out, unless you go for the insta board.  I have an idea I am working on trying for taking out these new armed traders.  Just trying to get the slots unlocked on the ship I am going to try and the combat marks to put mods on it.

A gun might need to be dropped from each side for the tsnow, tbrig, tlynx if possible.  It will make the traders faster when armed and not the same as a warship.

Though pvp should be minimum x5 marks as pve, if not more.

Edited June 22, 2017 by Prater

[Ole Pinelle]

2 hours ago, King of Crowns said:

Perhaps your confused about the reason why the frigates were such a good ship for nations during the age of sail. the frigates were the work horses. frigate class would be your 4th/5th rates in game. the were used to sail around and kill traders and other frigates and on rare occasions even engaged ships of the line. the frigate captians out there are your pvp players. and for them the emersion into the open world is what we call PVP.

Sure in naval forces. But the common pirate or privateer didn´t sail a frigate, simply because it was too expensive and required too much logistics.

[Hodo]

1 minute ago, Benass said:

Sir, have you forgot, you playing early access game. It means you are testing ideas good or bad, you give your opinion on forums, its all part of Testing.

Devs gathering data, they value every ones opinion, and hope they are making notes.  

If you want steady game, well w8 till it gets best features in place and launches in steady form.   

 

Keep posting your ups and down, but please dont act like you are entitled in some kind of stability. 

All and all i agree, it can be frustrating, but hey we are testers.

LOL Thank you for saying that.  

The problem is we dont feel like testers, we feel like suckers.   

The game is actually steady, but I am seeing more and more games hide behind this "early access" shield like it is some kind of scapegoat.   All it is is a fancy way of saying Pay-To-Beta.   When in fact it is a way for most development companies to put out an unfinished product early and make a profit on it so that they might finish it in the next 10 years.  For a good while I avoided early access games and these pay to beta games because of scams of the past where developers took that money and ran, leaving a steaming pile of mud for a game.   

So while I come across as entitled, it is because I am entitled.  Entitled to my opinion view on the state of the game.  If it conflicts with someone else's opinion then so be it.  

And it isnt frustrating as much as it is something that makes no sense.  

[Benass]

3 minutes ago, Hodo said:

LOL Thank you for saying that.  

The problem is we dont feel like testers, we feel like suckers.   

The game is actually steady, but I am seeing more and more games hide behind this "early access" shield like it is some kind of scapegoat.   All it is is a fancy way of saying Pay-To-Beta.   When in fact it is a way for most development companies to put out an unfinished product early and make a profit on it so that they might finish it in the next 10 years.  For a good while I avoided early access games and these pay to beta games because of scams of the past where developers took that money and ran, leaving a steaming pile of mud for a game.   

So while I come across as entitled, it is because I am entitled.  Entitled to my opinion view on the state of the game.  If it conflicts with someone else's opinion then so be it.  

And it isnt frustrating as much as it is something that makes no sense.  

I know what you mean man. 

Naval action and empyrion are the only games im testing, due to devs being active and working on them. 

But personally i hate this early access crap all together. 

[Kanay]

52 minutes ago, Sir Texas Sir said:

M&C is 250 crew, why are you doing them still in a Cerberus?  Your doing a level ship higher than the ship your in.  Just cause your a that rank doesn't mean that is the ships you will get.  Frigate vs something of the MC level can be done.  To me by time your Rank 6 in your nation your not a new player any more.

I been grinding up my Aggy up today for slots and all I get in 5th rate missions are either 5th rate Endy/Inflatables/Trincs or a Connie once in a blue moon.  Been pretty fair match up.  These are all Ravager (350 crew or Captain level).

These aren't suppose to be easy cake walk missions after all what fun will that be. If your having problems than hit something on the OW that is lower rank than your ship is.  Remember fight what your ship can handle not what your rank is.

I restarted a week ago and focused first on trading, got this ship , went there trying to get some stuff out of the ships i sink, today i got my essex and got back sailing one of the ships i liked the most before, i don't mind much for myself, the problem is how those encounters are scaled, it should be based on the payer used ship not on the max crew a player can get at a rank. Just imagine a starting player, he does his classes on smaller ships, and get a cerberus from the NPC shop like this one was as his first real small frigate, and he end up vs frigates, vs a cerberus + a navybrig and so on ...

How fun is it for him ? How many chances a player starting on such ship will have in such encounters ? Is the frustration of having to escape missions when he will realize he cannot win the encounter and get 0 reward after have spent 20-30mn trying to fight back, or loosing his ship he was collecting cash for since a while the only thing that those players have to expect due to a very badly scaled pve battles system ?

Isn't all the superperks the AI's have enough ?  

 

Edited June 22, 2017 by Kanay

[Slamz]

On 6/21/2017 at 4:58 PM, Hodo said:

I can go and do 2 hours worth of 6th rate missions in a Navy brig and make around 200k, not including loot.

I can go hunt AI trade ships for 2 hours and make around 100-150k in that time.  

This is still better than EVE by about a factor of 10.

EVE you go grind stupid PvE missions for hours to raise money to PvP for an hour. (Unless you were in a mega-corp in which case the ratio is the same but your corp has dedicated grinders that are basically doing it for you.)

PvE is the money fountain.

PvP is the money sink.

Let any who dare sail the seas incur the risk of piracy and death. Your reward for winning PvP is not having to buy a new ship.

[Hodo]

1 minute ago, Slamz said:

This is still better than EVE by about a factor of 10.

EVE you go grind stupid PvE missions for hours to raise money to PvP for an hour. (Unless you were in a mega-corp in which case the ratio is the same but your corp has dedicated grinders that are basically doing it for you.)

PvE is the money fountain.

PvP is the money sink.

Let any who dare sail the seas incur the risk of piracy and death. Your reward for winning PvP is not having to buy a new ship.

In EVE if I kill someone the salvage alone could buy me a new ship... but I fly around in a Probe most of the time. LOL

[Slamz]

2 minutes ago, Hodo said:

In EVE if I kill someone the salvage alone could buy me a new ship... but I fly around in a Probe most of the time. LOL

Nah, the salvage is always a tiny fraction of the cost. Unless you're killing T2 battleships with a solo Rifter I think you might be exaggerating a bit here!

Really Naval Action is hugely rewarding if you capture his ship. Was just posting in another thread how I've been selling Indiamen for 550,000. I've seen a Trinc go for 500,000. I bet if you captured an Endymion you could probably get someone to pay a million for it (surely 750k).

If you care about contention or are just out for salty tears, sink em.

If you care about rewards, get the Fleet 1 perk and go for captures and sell their ships!

[Hodo]

3 minutes ago, Slamz said:

Nah, the salvage is always a tiny fraction of the cost. Unless you're killing T2 battleships with a solo Rifter I think you might be exaggerating a bit here!

Really Naval Action is hugely rewarding if you capture his ship. Was just posting in another thread how I've been selling Indiamen for 550,000. I've seen a Trinc go for 500,000. I bet if you captured an Endymion you could probably get someone to pay a million for it (surely 750k).

If you care about contention or are just out for salty tears, sink em.

If you care about rewards, get the Fleet 1 perk and go for captures and sell their ships!

Ok let me scale it for you.

I sail around a Lynx or a Privateer, or even a 6th rate.  I am going to be hunting nothing really much bigger than a LGV at most.  And highly doubt I will hunt a player LGV because of the fact it will most likely have an escort or have guns.  And 20 9lb guns does a lot of damage to a 7th rate in a real short order.  

So I am stuck hunting 6th rate trade or combat ships... which at best sell for 40-60k on the market in a major port, or around 30-50k in a out of the way market that you are looking to dump it off at.  Then we have the cargo... which 9 out of 10 times is nothing more than fish.  I have to use the trade ship to transport, which might sell for 10-20k unless they are hauling something really big... but that isnt that common any more. 

So I dare you to take on a Indiaman in a Lynx or Privateer, or challenge a Trinc in a Snow.   You will find yourself swimming long before you even think about taking them as a prize.

 

Just saying.

[Prater]

I actually ditched the fleet perk because it isn't useful as a small hunter and replaced it with control, the pvp marks were worth way more than the ship or cargo, and control will mean I can catch up without having to fire every minute at the enemy to tag them.

[Gamover]

[Aphilas]

6 minutes ago, Gamover said:

That's fighting 3 bellonas, and some 4th rates in mostly 5th rates btw. Compared to a single PvE mission.

[Kaaru62]

35 minutes ago, Aphilas said:

That's fighting 3 bellonas, and some 4th rates in mostly 5th rates btw. Compared to a single PvE mission.

257k in a single battle

cash-for-damage is the biggest crutch i have ever seen in a game. it needs to go.

[Slamz]

1 hour ago, Hodo said:

Ok let me scale it for you.

I sail around a Lynx or a Privateer, or even a 6th rate.... So I am stuck hunting 6th rate trade or combat ships... which at best sell for 40-60k on the market in a major port, or around 30-50k in a out of the way market that you are looking to dump it off at.

So you're saying that as a Lynx or Privateer you can still capture a ship that instantly exceeds the value of the ship you were using for PvP.

I don't see the problem.

If you sailed a Constitution you could capture Indiamen, probably 2-3 at a time, and again instantly exceed the value of the ship you were using for PvP.

Yes it's scaling but it's supposed to. You're not supposed to easily bring in a 500k ship with a ship that costs 25k to click out. But if you can bring in a 40k ship with a 25k ship then you're doing pretty good, I'd say.

 

Same reason you can't make a lot of profit in a Trader Lynx but you can do really well in triple Indiamen.