naval no action

[Blackjack Morgan]

48 minutes ago, King of Crowns said:

btw if you can stack other mods (in the place of speed) such as turning like you can the speed I'm curious to see what some of these ships are capable of in battle. so lets all do some more testing before the make mods and ship knowledge useless pls. speed may save your life in battle or open world.. but a full tank trinc or indef is gonna cause anyone that catches them a lot of pain. and they wont realize it until its to late. so lets do some more testing. I mean we are talking a trinc that has possibility to have more HP than a  stock Bellona.

I tend to agree with you to a point....some additional testing is not a bad thing. However, what I see to be a really big problem that clouds the test results is actually how the other game mechanics interact with these mods. Specifically, things like these multiple repair kits and the ability to camp battles without end. More often than not it isn't necessarily one thing like mod stacking that is the entire problem nor the entire solution. If we know from past extensive testing that multiple repair kits and revenge fleets were problematic than why is it logical to expect that somehow they will not be now or in the future? I believe a large part of the problem with our game balancing has always been due to a lack of appreciation on how various mechanics interact. 

Imagine trying to balance two sides of a scale....you would take or add weight to one side not both simultaneously right? This principle should have been applied in game. Left repairs the way they were and tested the various changes to mods and ship trims. It would have been much easier to form opinions and factual evidence of which mods, if any, needed to be adjusted because you are dealing with more of a controlled test. 

 

[hoarmurath]

On 16/06/2017 at 3:37 PM, admin said:

Is not it the goal of any war-game? 

The goal of any wargame is to determine, through tactics or strategy, depending on wargame scale, to determine a winner, and a loser. Once it's done, the game ends.

[Cmdr RideZ]

1 hour ago, King of Crowns said:

so really to slow me down enough to catch me they need 3 suprises within effective chain range.

It can be that pirates are the only nation to give a change for everyone who sails in their capital waters, or Global is some kinda of gentlemans server.

1 hour ago, King of Crowns said:

I mean we are talking a trinc that has possibility to have more HP than a  stock Bellona.

Personally I am depressed from this idea.  It is like I could upgrade my neighbours Toyota Corolla -80 to M1 Abrams Main Battle Tank.

[King of Crowns]

1 minute ago, Cmdr RideZ said:

It can be that pirates are the only nation to give a change for everyone who sails in their capital waters, or Global is some kinda of gentlemans server.

Personally I am depressed from this idea.  It is like I could upgrade my neighbours Toyota Corolla -80 to M1 Abrams Main Battle Tank.

except the trinc is like a Shelby gt 500 and it would be like turning it into a monster truck.

[King of Crowns]

36 minutes ago, Blackjack Morgan said:

I tend to agree with you to a point....some additional testing is not a bad thing. However, what I see to be a really big problem that clouds the test results is actually how the other game mechanics interact with these mods. Specifically, things like these multiple repair kits and the ability to camp battles without end. More often than not it isn't necessarily one thing like mod stacking that is the entire problem nor the entire solution. If we know from past extensive testing that multiple repair kits and revenge fleets were problematic than why is it logical to expect that somehow they will not be now or in the future? I believe a large part of the problem with our game balancing has always been due to a lack of appreciation on how various mechanics interact. 

Imagine trying to balance two sides of a scale....you would take or add weight to one side not both simultaneously right? This principle should have been applied in game. Left repairs the way they were and tested the various changes to mods and ship trims. It would have been much easier to form opinions and factual evidence of which mods, if any, needed to be adjusted because you are dealing with more of a controlled test. 

 

I think the speed mods will balance themselves out if the speed cap was removed. ships will be going really fast. like 17kn endy but at some point speed is not needed anymore.

[King of Crowns]

1 minute ago, rediii said:

Just put in more negative effects like - thickness and -HP and -turnrate to balance the speed out so a completly speedmodded ship isn't realy good in a fight

its already true just by not taking some of the other effects that are super nice.

[TommyShelby]

The fact that we've gone back to mods having such a high impact on the performance of the ships is not something I'm a fan of.

Like most others I'm a fan of being able to customize my ships but the current bonuses are just way to high

[Cabral]

8 hours ago, King of Crowns said:

speed is the meta unless there is RVR happening. that's why the devs need to find a way to pit the RVR and PVP crowds together. the hostility sytem will work in doing that if people stop crying about the battle open timer. the smaller that window is the safer it is to grind hostility.

as far as revenge fleets. give me a 15knt surprise and I will sail around morti all day any day without ever being caught. no body could catch a player in a 15knt speed capped surprise who knows what they are doing. gank fleets are not the problem... players unwillingness to adapt to the new patch and current pop numbers is the problem. I Remember this time last year me and sheriff were sporting fir trincs as fast as they could be.... the only ship that had a chance at catching us was  a fir renomee. we never lost those ships to a gank fleet...... because we couldn't be caught and we knew how to defensive tag. my fir fir trinc still had 3 dura on it by the time of the wipe.

 A surprise making 15 knts is just plain stupid, took renommee place in that regard. Who wants to sail reno if can have surprise with same characteristics, or better?

[King of Crowns]

1 minute ago, Cabral said:

 A surprise making 15 knts is just plain stupid, took renommee place in that regard. Who wants to sail reno if can have surprise with same characteristics, or better?

right which is why the speed cap needs to be removed. 17knt renommee and 15knt surprise.

[Cabral]

Just now, King of Crowns said:

right which is why the speed cap needs to be removed. 17knt renommee and 15knt surprise.

 15knt surprise? That real life replica can do that? In case of this one in game, fallout connie is even better.

[King of Crowns]

Just now, Cabral said:

 15knt surprise? That real life replica can do that? In case of this one in game, fallout connie is even better.

lol the surprise in real life was slower than terds. all the ship speeds are sped up for the sake of gameplay. for example the victory took 3 hours to reach her max speed of 8knts in perfect conditions. not to mention she took 20 mins to tack.

[Cabral]

Just now, King of Crowns said:

lol the surprise in real life was slower than terds. all the ship speeds are sped up for the sake of gameplay. for example the victory took 3 hours to reach her max speed of 8knts in perfect conditions. not to mention she took 20 mins to tack.

 surprise max speed before patch was just right in game, this now is some kind of magic bonus.

[Snoopy]

Try replicating that 12 hour race around Mortimer in anything other than a Surprise (and perhaps Lynx).

Using the Surprise which is borderline broken/op (and has been long before patch 10.x) to justify anything about current mechanics is selective perception (at best). Just logically thinking, if one or two ships lie so far outside of the baseline performance regime that they can pull off stuff that no other vessel can.. does that say more about those ships or about the mechanics in general?

 

 

[JeanJacques de Montpellier]

5 hours ago, Cabral said:

 surprise max speed before patch was just right in game, this now is some kind of magic bonus.

Just remove all bonuses. We need really bonuses in a game like this? I think not.

[Vllad]

15 hours ago, Vernon Merrill said:

 You MAY get away in 4 or 5 instances, but rest assured, the net WILL widen and you WILL die.... 

Mechanics have overtaken skill, mate

Why aren't you killing those ships that are waiting outside? Revenge fleets are just sitting there, it is the easiest way to find stationary targets. Typically those fleets are spread out and easy to split and kill.

[Hodo]

Here is an example of how PVP should be, well two cases.

First one.

On Friday the 16th of June, myself and one member from the Tatterflags clan were patrolling looking for a pirate that had been terrorizing the southern Florida coast from Rio Seco to Ayes.  I was in my Lynx, and my hammer element was in a Renomee.  After about 15min I spotted the pirate in a Surprise, he initially ran from us, I tailed him at a distance (barely within visual range.  I watched him turn to engage a lone trade brig that was sailing up from Cayo Biscano.  The Renomee was north of  them with favorable winds headed to the engagement.  I gave the call and he went full sail to the location as I did too.  

Once in the fight, the pirate let his quarry go and proceeded to run from us.  After a 1hour 28min fight, we succeeded in finally capturing the pirate and his ship.  We sunk it and was awarded the marks accordingly.  It was a great fight all around.  

It wasnt a revenge fleet situation, we were trailing him for a while... total time was about 2hours of tracking and following and hunting.   

 

Second engagement....

I was sailing alone in my Navy Brig on Saturday evening 17 of June, headed out to the West End to do some patrolling and see what shipping I can interdict.  Unfortunately for me, I sailed right into the sights of 2 pirate ships, 1 Constitution and 1 Frigate.

After a short chase where I attempted to get to the shallows around the Grand Bahamas they caught up and engaged me.  A furious one sided fight ensued.  My poor navy brig vs a constitution, its 24lbers vs my 6lb guns.  After he managed to cripple my sails I was left with nothing but my handling to try and cause as much damage as possible.  I did get in a few good rakes on the lumbering 4th rate before I was finally sunk by his overwhelming firepower.  The Navy Brig was underestimated by them and it cost them over 50 men and several guns off of the Constitution before I was finally sunk.   Even then it was a 20-30min fight that was a lot of fun even for me.  I am sure it was frustrating and fun for them too.

[Vernon Merrill]

21 minutes ago, Vllad said:

Why aren't you killing those ships that are waiting outside? Revenge fleets are just sitting there, it is the easiest way to find stationary targets. Typically those fleets are spread out and easy to split and kill.

Vllad its because I'm INSIDE the instance getting away from the OTHER 10 ships while the ones OUTSIDE set up in a 30-second wide circle outside the crossed swords...

At this point you're just trolling, so please spare me the "get gud" responses....  I've escaped enough ganks to know what I'm talking about.

[Vllad]

1 hour ago, Vernon Merrill said:

Vllad its because I'm INSIDE the instance getting away from the OTHER 10 ships while the ones OUTSIDE set up in a 30-second wide circle outside the crossed swords...

Fair enough, you are inside. where is the rest of your nation when you are the jack rabbit?

[Vernon Merrill]

Actively seeking OW PvP in their green zone , which is apparently the best way to find it.

[Blackjack Morgan]

What I'm confused about is that all of the changes to the mod system....and I'm talking books, upgrades, both admiralty and RNG drops....were supposed to make having 1 dura ships a better system. A large part to the argument was that you would actually make capturing a player ship mean something because it could very well be a ship you could use. Well my experience so far shows that actually making a ship really is not that big of a deal....its the damn mods that are the big deal. This is no different then what we had before...the mods are often more important than the ship. 

I actually don't care about the change to 1 dura ships.....initially I wasn't a huge fan of it but I can live with it. It has some merit and is something I can definitely work under....it really does not change things much one way or the other for myself. However, I fail to understand how making mods more powerful than ever before....and then restricting access to many of them through various game mechanics was a good  design decision.

Most of these mods, if not all of them, should be craftable. PvP marks could still be used for ship redeemables, cosmetic upgrades, repair kits, and possibly enhanced versions of the regular player crafted mods. For example if you made player crafted copper plating give 3% speed bonus a pvp mark enhancement could be purchased that gave 4%....these don't have to be the actual numbers obviously. 

With this system it makes it a lot easier for people to get out and do more pvp....the potential loss of a ship is still significant but manageable.   

[Vllad]

1 hour ago, Vernon Merrill said:

Actively seeking OW PvP in their green zone , which is apparently the best way to find it.

 

I guess I am not grasping the issue here. Why aren't you fighting where your nation is or why isn't your nation fighting where you are? Apparently you both found PVP so I would think you would all find away to get in one spot. 

 

I am not trying to troll you Vernon, I am trying to truly grasp why your nation isn't taking advantage of revenge fleets as a means of creating PVP and killing ships. Are you on one of those 6 player nations?

[Hodo]

2 minutes ago, Vllad said:

I am not trying to troll you Vernon, I am trying to truly grasp why your nation isn't taking advantage of revenge fleets as a means of creating PVP and killing ships. Are you on one of those 6 player nations?

Speaking from my experiences on Global with the US population.  Vast majority of those that sit inside the green zone are afraid.  Afraid of losing their ships, or losing the fight.  A large number believe that the person outside of that zone that is hostile is better than them and they will just lose no matter the odds.  They dont think that if they worked together they may have a chance.. but they dont talk to each other.  I dont know how many times I have sat there watching one right after the other sail out to get attacked by the same PVPers outside of the green zone, only to say something long after they lost the fight.   Instead of saying something before with good information instead of this panic message of "being attacked!!"   

That helps no one.

[Vernon Merrill]

 

I guess I am not grasping the issue here. Why aren't you fighting where your nation is or why isn't your nation fighting where you are? Apparently you both found PVP so I would think you would all find away to get in one spot. 

 

I am not trying to troll you Vernon, I am trying to truly grasp why your nation isn't taking advantage of revenge fleets as a means of creating PVP and killing ships. Are you on one of those 6 player nations?

 

I'm a member of a PvP-oriented clan that cares very little about the RvR game.  We set up as pirates on the Euro server thinking it would be a good diversion from playing US on the Global server, in that we could find OW PvP far more easily.

We initially ventured out to Tortue as soon as we could craft a few ships that could hold a few repairs.  Result:  nobody other than pirates to fight.

We then set up outposts at Navasse so that we could find "assured" PvP against the Brits...  Hey, its a 30 min sail to get there, but we can APPRECIATE the sailing.  No big deal.  Result:  A few days of seal-clubbing, because apparently most Brits had sailed south to Belize to have a "safe" area to get their RvR fleets built.  Seal clubbing sucks.  Its no fun for decent players and it REALLY sucks for new players.

We then sailed out to Hat Island because of its position of proximity to multiple nations.  So we coordinated crafting a bunch of ships and repairs and headed East  Hey, its a 2 hour sail to get there, but we can DEAL with the sailing...  No big deall.  

Result:  A few days of really good PvP...  A few REALLY fun 2v3's, 3v5's, etc...  My speed-capped Renommee is having a blast.   DAY 3, Hat gets blockaded for half the day with 5-10 speed-rigged taggers bringing everything into battle. Meanwhile, the other 10 players are getting into a 1-minute wide circle around the crossed swords talking to their "taggers" about when they should let you "escape" after theyre in position.  So you try and decide whether you should try and exit the battle immediately and hope they didnt have a chance to put some people one minute from your best point of sail.  But of course they have, they have people in EVERY direction).  Or, do you wait the 15 minutes and hope they get bored in that time..  (of course they won't.  Its a holy PvP MARK!!!!!!)

 

Sooooooooooo......   with the current mechanics, we have 2 options:

Stay close to our "home waters" and wait hours or days for strays and noobs to wander in so that we can sail out in the great regatta to try and get the almighty "PvP Mark"...  Or, we can guarantee having our ships lost due to ridiculous mechanics of "sanctioned griefing" with infinite re-tagging and no option to either log-off or spawn somewhere...

"But certainly, you can look where the conquest fleets are fighting and do some screening/ anti-hostility, right"??

Please tell me where there has been a "real" Port Battle in the past 10 days.....

Again, and for the final time, I dont mind "getting ganked".  Its happened many times and it'll happen again.  Its the game.

What SUCKS is mechanics where being timid and pleasure-sailing around your capital is encouraged while venturing forth and engaging your enemies is literally impossible.

Edited June 19, 2017 by Vernon Merrill

[jodgi]

17 minutes ago, Vernon Merrill said:

Snip

"Sounds like the blockade was a success."

or

"Sail a fore-and-aft, I always get away."

or

"Why don't you camp someone else's instance"

or

"We don't have this problem on global"

or

"No one should be able to hunt in enemy waters unpunished"

:|

Am I doing this right?

[Cmdr RideZ]

Devs maybe we could do so, that you take the fastest ship in the game + stack all the best speed mods and skills.  Then you scale those mods and skills down until the fastest ship cannot go faster than 15kn.  Then check that all other upgrades are equally good with speed upgrades.