Smithy Posted May 28, 2017 Share Posted May 28, 2017 agree on restriction of basic cutters being used in PVP. They simple have too much advantage for zero risk. not good. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jodgi Posted May 28, 2017 Share Posted May 28, 2017 Anyone who loses his Surprise or Ventre to a cutter swarm wants it or is completely clueless. Do we need to have game mechanics to interfere? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Liq Posted May 28, 2017 Share Posted May 28, 2017 6 minutes ago, jodgi said: Anyone who loses his Surprise or Ventre to a cutter swarm wants it or is completely clueless. Do we need to have game mechanics to interfere? I take it you havent played much since the patch A surps topmast now literally takes about 2 to 4 6 or 9 pdr hits. Its silly. Not much even an experienced captain can do vs a Cutter swarm. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jodgi Posted May 29, 2017 Share Posted May 29, 2017 Turning a tall ship downwind to run allows the little critters to still land 4 hits to a topmast section? Tall ship then repairs to get back up to speed, but critters can not only keep up but get the mast down again? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smithy Posted May 29, 2017 Share Posted May 29, 2017 I don think its so much to do with a gang of small ships taking a larger one. Its the fact that the basic cutter is completely free to buy, arm and repair and then even if you beat it you gain nothing from it as no pvp marks for basic cutter battle to close another possible exploit of these ships. all reward for no risk at all. Even though economy and player progress is still in its infancy with the wipe even down the road I could see basic cutter zergs becoming a meta for harassing close to capitals, and when you think about it why wouldn't they? potentially all reward with no risk, cost, nada. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted May 29, 2017 Share Posted May 29, 2017 Just to add, as was pointed out a bit. - With the open magazine access removing the risk of wasting fireship fittings, if it was me the first time I'd spot an enemy 3rd rate I'd ram a cutter fireship up its stern. - The LGV cargo changes creates a considerable vacuum in the trader roster, now you have to jump straight from Trader Brig to Indiaman to get a considerable cargo increase, so naturally Trader Brigs are gonna be the mainstay for quite some time. - Basic cutters can be switched away from inside the combat instance, allowing them to be added as fleet ships (even though this is denied when in a port). So now we have zero-cost escort ships as well, what's next, players sailing around in a cutter with 3 other cutters in a fleet? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hethwill Posted May 29, 2017 Share Posted May 29, 2017 27 minutes ago, Aegir said: - The LGV cargo changes creates a considerable vacuum in the trader roster, now you have to jump straight from Trader Brig to Indiaman to get a considerable cargo increase, so naturally Trader Brigs are gonna be the mainstay for quite some time. Ship per ship yes. Usage of fleet cargo space also added means to fill that vacuum though Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baptiste Gallouédec Posted May 29, 2017 Share Posted May 29, 2017 (edited) Honnestly, i quite enjoy seeing a good proportion of small ships / cutter. I don't see it as a problem as it looks like all free cutters are fir ones, how can a frigate be endengered by one or two fir cutters ? They are so easily demasted. . Chainshots have been rebalanced, you can repair sails every 10mn, it's not that easy for cutters. If you get trapped alone in a middle of a cutter swarm it's you fault and it's a valid tactic imo. Free cutters were already a thing pre-patch but i understand trader's frustration, maybe the free cutter should be a slower one. A 0 Br or no pvp tagging will still allow mass cutter reinforcement, (if such thing exist.) No pvp for free cutter is a wrong signal for newcomers. Changing the free cutter to a free gunboat or a free lynx will not change anything. Make all 7th rated ships free ? = destroy even more low lvl shipcraft isn't it ? -What i can imagine is to remove the free unlimited (crew/hull/sails) repairs and instead make the free cutter appear with 1 or 2 repair kits of each and global crew stock can't drop less than 40 men total (it can while in battle ofc), so you can always have enough men to sail a cutter and repair for free at port. That way you still loose crew as long as you have more than 40, and have to sail back to a national port to get free repairs. -Also you could remove the ship knowledges for the free variant so no easy free fireships anymore(+ forced survival for the free ship if not too much of work). -To prevent the disbalance between free cutters vs traders, i'm all for merging trader and équivalent combat variants, or letting trader variants get guns like their combat counterparts (tradercutter/notfreecutter; traderlynx/lynx; traderbrig/brig; tradersnow/snow) and tie hold space to the number and weight of guns on board. Plus, as i've said, maybe make the free cutter a slower variant, not the fastest. (Off topic, please introduce different paints for the cutter so it's no longer clone war, make it drop in low level combat missions or pvp please) Edited May 29, 2017 by Baptiste Gallouédec Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vllad Posted May 30, 2017 Share Posted May 30, 2017 Complaining about the basic cutter is short sided. They serve a good purpose for start up and to deal with financial hard times. If a group rolls into your capitol with all basic cutters the best solution is to meet them with all basic cutters yourself. Problem solved. Everyone has the means to counter this tactic and after the server matures will be seldom seen. For those players who have played a nation that got down to 2 ports the basic cutter is your salvation. The basic cutter is what you leave a nation to use when you take all their ports and they no longer can build normal ships. I think it is a perfectly viable tactic that if you remove a nations ability to build ships they then get a lifetime supply of free ships with no risk to kill the invaders ships. I see complaining about the basic cutter to be a knee jerk reaction to a server re-set or from players that only play Brits and the US and never had to try and survive as the (insert your small nation here). Unless you can solve the problem of making sure every nation can't lose X amount of ports that contain every resource to keep a stead supply of ships then the basis cutter has to remain as is. Since RvR is about resource control this only works if those that lose have the basic cutter as their fall back. The basic cutter that is free is one of the developers best idea's for a real RvR game. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hethwill Posted May 30, 2017 Share Posted May 30, 2017 1 hour ago, Vllad said: Complaining about the basic cutter is short sided. They serve a good purpose for start up and to deal with financial hard times. If a group rolls into your capitol with all basic cutters the best solution is to meet them with all basic cutters yourself. Problem solved. Everyone has the means to counter this tactic and after the server matures will be seldom seen. For those players who have played a nation that got down to 2 ports the basic cutter is your salvation. The basic cutter is what you leave a nation to use when you take all their ports and they no longer can build normal ships. I think it is a perfectly viable tactic that if you remove a nations ability to build ships they then get a lifetime supply of free ships with no risk to kill the invaders ships. I see complaining about the basic cutter to be a knee jerk reaction to a server re-set or from players that only play Brits and the US and never had to try and survive as the (insert your small nation here). Unless you can solve the problem of making sure every nation can't lose X amount of ports that contain every resource to keep a stead supply of ships then the basis cutter has to remain as is. Since RvR is about resource control this only works if those that lose have the basic cutter as their fall back. The basic cutter that is free is one of the developers best idea's for a real RvR game. also a good point of view. Thanks for sharing Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stardog765 Posted May 30, 2017 Share Posted May 30, 2017 Ok the devs said the free Cutter is just temporary but what will happen when it goes away? How are new players going to start off? I would agree they should be excluded from PvP, that makes total sense or maybe no longer free after a certain level but they are very important to a new player to learn the game and get themselves established. As a new player just finally starting to play this game I am very thankful there is a free Cutter that allows me to learn the game properly. Without it there would be no chance. There is NO tutorial of any kind, there is no missions other than combat missions for a new player to start making money. Does everyone just want this game full of vet players and no new players ever coming to the game? That to me is extremely short sighted. Like it or not this game has a very steep learning curve and if there is not some way for new players who dont know as much as you learn the game properly this game will die. It has to have new players coming in to keep it alive. So having said all that I would very much like to know the vision of the devs when it comes to helping new players get into the game and learn because as it seems now there has been zero thought put into that. Im not trolling these are honest concerns from a new player. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
z4ys Posted June 1, 2017 Share Posted June 1, 2017 when recently sunk in a basic cutter you shouldnt be able to tag. Most folks sink, spawn in the next town and tag you again. They just drain your repair kits waste your time offer no reward and are a major annoyance. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vllad Posted June 1, 2017 Share Posted June 1, 2017 1 hour ago, z4ys said: when recently sunk in a basic cutter you shouldnt be able to tag. Most folks sink, spawn in the next town and tag you again. They just drain your repair kits waste your time offer no reward and are a major annoyance. That is the point of an RvR game. You don't beat Realms by just sinking their ships. You beat them by beating their economy or the ability to spend on front line actions. For every kit I make you expend that helps my realm and takes away from yours. That is the point. I think most players are missing the point of the Basic Cutter. Basic cutters are equivalent to guerilla warfare. They aren't going to win the war for you but they are a means for small nations to fight back against their captures and are the beginning phases of a bigger war. Having played a nation before that was down to 2 ports and made a comeback to control more ports it was the basic cutter that got us there. It is the catch up property that an RvR game needs. Peoples suggestions on the basic cutter will just lead to 1 of two things. Either the elimination of all but a few different teams and players quitting as soon as their nation is beaten. Given that this isn't POTBS where the map re-sets all of the time I would suggest we leave the few catch-up properties NA has alone and as is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
z4ys Posted June 1, 2017 Share Posted June 1, 2017 1 minute ago, Vllad said: That is the point of an RvR game. You don't beat Realms by just sinking their ships. You beat them by beating their economy or the ability to spend on front line actions. Iam fine with that that it how RvR is but there is no trade-off. Even the basic cutter get sunk it always wins when it was not attacking an other basic cutter. That makes it a crappy design. Iam not telling to exclude the cutter from pvp in general. I just suggested to exclude it from tagging when it has the recently killed buff. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vllad Posted June 1, 2017 Share Posted June 1, 2017 2 minutes ago, z4ys said: Iam fine with that that it how RvR is but there is no trade-off. Even the basic cutter get sunk it always wins when it was not attacking an other basic cutter. That makes it a crappy design. Iam not telling to exclude the cutter from pvp in general. I just suggested to exclude it from tagging when it has the recently killed buff. I get what you are saying about the recently killed buff. Let me ask you this. Assume you are the French and down to just your capitol county and you are surrounded by a large nation and really have no ability to build more ships. The Brits are sitting outside your capitol port consistently picking off smugglers. What is your alternative and motivation to keep fighting as the French? If you can come up with a way to address this issue that solves the cutter issue as well I would be all for it. As I see it the French would only have one alternative that is spamming the Brits with basic cutters until they run out of kits and have to leave. Then we French can get our smugglers going in order to build more real ships. RvR games need catch up properties in order to keep its player base. The basic cutter is one of the few catch up properties that exist in the game today. Before you get rid of the cutter you need to replace it with something else. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bommel Posted June 1, 2017 Share Posted June 1, 2017 On 30.5.2017 at 6:45 PM, Stardog765 said: Ok the devs said the free Cutter is just temporary but what will happen when it goes away? He didn´t say the Basic Cutter will go away (removed), he said, the BC being used to swarm other players is a temporarily problem, and this behaviour will most likely go away. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stardog765 Posted June 1, 2017 Share Posted June 1, 2017 Ohhhh ok thank you sir! Reading comprehension not my strong suit Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Liq Posted June 1, 2017 Share Posted June 1, 2017 well that was amusing Demasted the surp, got into boarding, cutters joined and stern camped me ^^ good fkin game 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sir Texas Sir Posted June 2, 2017 Share Posted June 2, 2017 On 5/28/2017 at 9:13 AM, akd said: Also a result of removing officer loss. There is now zero cost / disincentive to sinking / blowing up in basic cutter. I don't know if it was overall a good mechanic (because of last officer life syndrome and no mechanic to counter it), but it did provide a mild disincentive to suicide tactics. I never had an issue with officer replacement cause I sold ships too. I would have enough redeemable xp to either get half way up the rank or fully. If i wasn't full than I would just take the 1st rate out at kidds and grind a fleet or two and bang I was rank 10 again. The folks I see that had problems weren't PvPers, they where PvErs that hardly did any thing other than sit in port. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted June 2, 2017 Share Posted June 2, 2017 (edited) Since that thread is locked feel free to continue the discussion here. Quote Verdict Cutters can't sail on parallel course with Trincomalee or Indefatigable. They just don't have the speed. You cannot get attacked in the harbor of KPR if you are a brit And fireship was and is a valid tactic in the age of sail with many excellent counters. Destruction of fire ship was always a priority and was awarded heftily (its in the Royal Navy Articles of War) Captains who perfected the Cutter will do great deeds in the future. Thats why it is recommended to sail every ship and practice practice practice. Its the Navy - not the game. Feedback on upgrades or skills (including fireship) should be sent to relevant sections topic closed. Were fireships fully combat capable - cannons, crew and all - and were they completely free? If this was happening with any other ship, then whatever - players would have to face at least some loss in the form of cannons, crew replenishment and repair kits, so it'd be okay, and they wouldn't have them infinitely available in each and every port. I'm just waiting for the outcry once a SOL gets taken out this way just because he's not fast enough to escape the cutters / can't maneuver away fast enough once they enter fire shock. Edited June 2, 2017 by Guest Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shaeberle84 Posted June 2, 2017 Share Posted June 2, 2017 4 minutes ago, Aegir said: Since that thread is locked feel free to continue the discussion here. Were fireships fully combat capable - cannons, crew and all - and were they completely free? If this was happening with any other ship, then whatever - players would have to face at least some loss in the form of cannons, crew replenishment and repair kits, so it'd be okay. I'm just waiting for the outcry once a SOL to get taken out this way just because he's not fast enough to escape the cutters / can't maneuver away fast enough once they enter fire shock. Totally agree. Fireships are OKAY, if the fireships actually costs something (pickles, privateers etc.). But a COSTLESS ship should not be allowed to do such things. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hethwill Posted June 2, 2017 Share Posted June 2, 2017 Can concur with the late comment. Must also say the cutters are easily defeated if one keeps cool. Also brace. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Liq Posted June 2, 2017 Share Posted June 2, 2017 (edited) Can we get a comment from @admin on this? I saw the post regarding fireships today. I get that they are a valid tactic. But not in cutters. They are free. Britain also didnt get their fireships get spawned from nothing. I think it is needed to remove the cutter from pvp. way too many griefing options, nothing to loose, etc.. I think you know the arguments. Sinking a Cutter doesnt give pvp marks. But sailing a cutter sinking otehr ships does. How is this balanced? thx Edited June 2, 2017 by Liquicity 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Enemy Posted June 4, 2017 Share Posted June 4, 2017 how about a cooldown when sunk in a PVP battle? if you get sunk from a real player you get a x-hour cooldown to use a BC again? sunk in PVE changes nothing. just an idea. regards Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
troody Posted June 4, 2017 Share Posted June 4, 2017 (edited) PLZ make Basic Cutter unable to start PvP, to join Pvp or zo participate in any way in PvP! These cowardish tactics from many players while risking no own values, need to be fixed as fast as possible! Edited June 4, 2017 by troody Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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