AngryPanCake Posted June 6, 2017 Share Posted June 6, 2017 (edited) 1 hour ago, Borch said: I really feel that beginners gamepley was butchered in order to fix exploits. Current meta is to join a clan and there is not much fun for solo newbie players. I know that we can also trade, but I'm pretty sure that everyone new joining the game will focus on battles not on boring economy grinding. There is a lot to fix in this department and i hope that Game Labs can focus on those problems before summer sale. What beginners really find difficult and frustrating is how to perform some basic tasks due to a not very intuitive UI and/or over complicated steps following battles/trade operations. Quote The rest is clear. UI, tutorials, As far as the above statement, I really beg to differ! Edited June 6, 2017 by AngryPanCake 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hethwill Posted June 6, 2017 Share Posted June 6, 2017 1 minute ago, AngryPanCake said: What beginners really find difficult and frustrating is how to perform some basic tasks due to a not very intuitive UI and/or over complicated steps following battles/trade operations. This is okay and true but rather intelligent gamers that are drawn to NA can surpass it, especially now that a lot of players do explain things on Help channels, it is great. Regarding the whole combat, trade planning, etc, new guys are us. Capable and willing to learn. Some are capable to see through the "clan slavery" that some groups tend to promote and do their own way and evolve with the game. It is also a good social experiment due to the multiplayer nature. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AngryPanCake Posted June 6, 2017 Share Posted June 6, 2017 Just now, The Red Duke said: This is okay and true but rather intelligent gamers that are drawn to NA can surpass it, especially now that a lot of players do explain things on Help channels, it is great. What about the not so intelligent gamers? and I'm actually hoping your original statement was somewhat lost in translation, cause it surely sound a bit...how do I say, "elitist". I am drawn to NA no matter what my intelligence is and I am surely not going to debate how "intelligent" NA gamers are. But what I am trying to convey is that the game itself is not the easiest game to play, it has challenging mechanics, which everyone is ok with (even the not so intelligent players), it adds realism and challenge. But what is frustrating is the non intuitive UI/end of battle/trade screens...etc. Manual sailing is hard, it takes practice and skill, I have nothing against it, I will learn it sooner or later. That's not my frustration. Losing a captured ship and its cargo because I could not figure out the post battle screen is frustrating. Sailing for 30-60 min to a port to purchase goods and not being available upon arrival is not a big deal, that comes with the trade. Losing a cargo purchased at a port after leaving and not placing it in cargo hold is frustrating. And yes, the community has been very helpful and I am sure it is the foremost reason beginners are still holding on to the game. But, while major patches with huge changes dealing with complex game issues/mechanics are being rolled out, issues related to basic operations are left out. Those basic operations that beginners (and non beginners alike) are confronted to on a daily basis, that would make a hard and challenging game less frustrating, should be a matter of focus. When I read reviews on steam and most of them were bitching about the UI, how horrible it was, my thought was it should be the last thing to be worked on in a game that's a WIP. At that time, I thought people were complaining about color, esthetics and so on. Now I come to realize it was more about the Intuitive aspect of it, the knowing what to do when the appropriate menu appears. Again, let me sound like a broken record: hard as in Challenging is good, hard as in frustrating is not good. And there is a very fine line between the two. That is what takes intelligence to figure out the balance and make a great game. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
victor Posted June 6, 2017 Share Posted June 6, 2017 (edited) 30 minutes ago, The Red Duke said: This is okay and true but rather intelligent gamers that are drawn to NA can surpass it, especially now that a lot of players do explain things on Help channels, it is great. Regarding the whole combat, trade planning, etc, new guys are us. Capable and willing to learn. Some are capable to see through the "clan slavery" that some groups tend to promote and do their own way and evolve with the game. It is also a good social experiment due to the multiplayer nature. Evolve? Willing to learn? Social experiment? Surpass difficulties being "rather intelligent"? Hey ... I was told that Naval Action is a game ... not a job selection test. Unfortunately this game (I mean the new version after the wipe) is based on a secret general rule: you have to struggle (slowly grinding boring activities) at least for three hours in order to get what is necessary to have fun for one hour. 4 hours of gaming, 1 hours of fun. Not much of a deal. I think that on the long term is will not work. Being a rather seasoned player and dwelling on this forums quite often, I got also the impression that - since last patch went live - some Naval Action players started thinking that just being able to bear boredom, lack of variety in contents and slow grind will make the naval action playerbase some new kind of "special" hardcore video game players. But I think that there's difference between "hardcore gaming" (based on skill) and "hardbore gaming" (based on time that you can/want throw into a game). EVE online is not an easy game at all (it is MUCH MORE complicated and deep than NA) but at the beginning you have a tutorial, a lot for things to do with much less effort than the nightmare that a newbie shall face in his first days in this game. Moreover in EVE you can also progress from a small frigate to a marauder (a sort of space Ship of the line) much easier and even if it takes you a lot of time you feel never short of money or of ships: you do not become rich but you have what is needed to afford new ships and new contents. Here in Naval Action - let's be honest - you feel almost always short of everything. I'm still playing the game, but it's boring. I just hope that some fresh air will come from the future revamp of PVE and that Devs will cut down the prices of harvesting raw materials in order to support crafting and player driven economy. Or I doubt that we will get a steady flux of new players in this game. Edited June 6, 2017 by victor 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hethwill Posted June 6, 2017 Share Posted June 6, 2017 Sitting around a table is also a game multiplayer, social, with rules and needing a certain degree of imagination depending on the game type. Chess is boring though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
victor Posted June 6, 2017 Share Posted June 6, 2017 Just now, The Red Duke said: Sitting around a table is also a game multiplayer, social, with rules and needing a certain degree of imagination depending on the game type. Chess is boring though. Let's say that playing chess may be boring, but - first - it is a free game and - second - it has an easy set of rules but requires being "rather" intelligent (much more - i think - than what is needed to find trade routes on the ingame trade tool). Third, just for sake of conversation, I think also that if Naval Action had the half (of the half of the half) of the playerbase that chess has, for sure we will not be here debating about improving naval action gameplay. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hethwill Posted June 6, 2017 Share Posted June 6, 2017 Yes. Naval Action is a bit more like Go though, providing more opportunity to engage opponents into well planned mistakes. Not surprisingly way more interesting than Chess. Given the subject of the mega patch, and not to go much off topic, there are things there were introduced/removed in this version that made a lot of players come back more than made some stop. We might guess what those specifics are, we might discuss the merits of each one but the big picture is, as a whole it is working better than before. I do agree though that it can definitely be tweaked in the entry level up to rank 4. That's the "tutorial" phase. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jesters-Ink Posted June 6, 2017 Share Posted June 6, 2017 21 minutes ago, The Red Duke said: Yes. Naval Action is a bit more like Go though, providing more opportunity to engage opponents into well planned mistakes. Not surprisingly way more interesting than Chess. Given the subject of the mega patch, and not to go much off topic, there are things there were introduced/removed in this version that made a lot of players come back more than made some stop. We might guess what those specifics are, we might discuss the merits of each one but the big picture is, as a whole it is working better than before. I do agree though that it can definitely be tweaked in the entry level up to rank 4. That's the "tutorial" phase. Got to agree, player count is as high as I've ever seen at any given point of the day, so something is right. Also agree it can still use a tweak here and there. I'd like to see post battle cargo management for all ships in the fleet, not just the last one you loot. You have it for crew and repairs, so something along the same lines for cargo would be super :D. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sparkydog Posted June 6, 2017 Share Posted June 6, 2017 Overall very happy with the patch and it's great to see some numbers return to Global server. I have one observation and a suggestion though. It seems like 1 dura ships are inhibiting PVP- unless one side is sure to dominate the battle the players just run away. This has been my experience so far in trying to find players to PVP- even when fight was evenly matched. It takes so much effort and cash to get a nice ship- nobody wants to risk losing one. What if we went to 2 dura ships? Captains would be more willing to enter a fight- and not so scared to sink if they start with 2. But if you were capped instead of sunk maybe that would take both duras if you had them. Just an idea-- cheers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cmdr RideZ Posted June 6, 2017 Share Posted June 6, 2017 Conquest marks could be removed from the game for now. Those do not work atm. Nations just creating farms. Farming harming the economy, which is not good. So I recommend to remove once again, asap. In general controlling a port is a good idea, but maybe rewards from it should be something common, for example... You get rights to tax if someone collects resources in your region. Can be a % from resource collection cost, goes to your clan warehouse or something. Also, how a new player can get in a Port Battle if he first has to earn those marks to get a ship? PvE marks are working ok. PvP marks are working somehow, but once again abusable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sparkydog Posted June 6, 2017 Share Posted June 6, 2017 46 minutes ago, Hodo said: Wont change anything to be honest. When we had 5 dura people still ran. It isnt the number of durability of the ship it is the fear of losing pixels. I follow the old rule of, dont use what you cant afford to lose. It is a good rule. I am just seeing a lot more players running from fights then in the past - I agree that there is an unnatural fear of losing pixels but you are also losing the time you put in. I'm not sure 2 duras would fix it- but I think it might help. maybe their could be a way to craft extra duras? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pad Seayew Posted June 7, 2017 Share Posted June 7, 2017 Pixels = time, sure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
qw569😳 Posted June 7, 2017 Share Posted June 7, 2017 On 24.05.2017 at 1:10 PM, admin said: Medkit was replaced by RUM. Surgeon now needs rum to fix sailors (or cut them). Medkit blueprint eliminated. Copper mine building removed, copper removed from all blueprints. @admin Why i still see medkit, copper ingots and copper coins in trader tool? Are they still use? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
admin Posted June 7, 2017 Author Share Posted June 7, 2017 15 minutes ago, qw569 said: Are they still use? no captain. but the trader tool looks at all items in the db (even obsolete ones) trader tool is not reliable and can be removed if it causes informational issues for players Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlteSocken Posted June 7, 2017 Share Posted June 7, 2017 5 minutes ago, admin said: trader tool is not reliable and can be removed if it causes informational issues for players please dont do this, better remove obsolete items from db. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
victor Posted June 7, 2017 Share Posted June 7, 2017 27 minutes ago, AlteSocken said: please dont do this, better remove obsolete items from db. I agree. The last thing we need in this game is screwing also trading by removing trader tool. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hethwill Posted June 7, 2017 Share Posted June 7, 2017 Trader Tool, being a "last trade gazette received" thing is a nice thing to have for both traders and commerce raiders. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duncan McFail Posted June 7, 2017 Share Posted June 7, 2017 10 minutes ago, The Red Duke said: Trader Tool, being a "last trade gazette received" thing is a nice thing to have for both traders and commerce raiders. Would be nice if it had a listing of player contracts too. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hethwill Posted June 7, 2017 Share Posted June 7, 2017 Just now, Duncan McFail said: Would be nice if it had a listing of player contracts too. Generic additional columns for "Player Demands" and "Player Offers" would be interesting 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
qw569😳 Posted June 7, 2017 Share Posted June 7, 2017 (edited) @adminI Do you see how Great Britain and maybe Spanish traders work very well? Cayman Brac (pvp eu) has 36958 Iron Fittings now. The port was filled in one day.This is the largest number of resources in the ports. Price will come back in about 152 days. Edited June 7, 2017 by qw569 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrZoidberg Posted June 7, 2017 Share Posted June 7, 2017 Plz stop basic cutter swarm!!!! Dear Naval Action Developers! I play Naval Action from the start, i think im one of the most busy tester of the game. I stopped playing for a while. ur game is the best(!), but u make time after time fatal mistakes, what force players to leave. Tester usually write about that mistakes, but usually noone cares about it. I play from the wipe again. Congratulation. Ur new economy model is good, the trade became much enjoyable as the fleet system and the PVP, PVE content too. U made a really slow, but usefull work. The problem is that u made some (one) fatal mistake again, so ur "new game" wont be viable. What is this problem? U let "basic cutter system" as it was before wipe. New players, "low budget players" go out to farm, pro-s go out for conquest point with thier expensive ships, and they always have to fight with basic cutter swarm. This type of fight is not enjoyable, not worth for the "normal" side, and not fair that one side riska a lot for nothing, and the other side risk nothing. I have 2 player in my guild left the game because they lost thier expensive farm ships in that way. If u let people swarm the normal players without any risk, it will kill the game, u will loose ur player base again. I think u can solve the problem easily. With basic cutters or with basic cannons on board players shouldnt attack or join to attacker fights. Another solution if u give 1 PVP mark to players sinking basic cutters or ships with basic cannons while u get one mark form the cutter captain if he sunk (and if he has; if not no penalty). If he hasent got PVP mark there shouldnt be penalty, but if he has 1 still, u should get 1 from basic cutter players. I have some other suggestion, what are not that important, but shouild be very usefull aswell. U should help the new players and PVP, PVE players with low cost basic ships. Like navy brig for 30 PVE marks, cerberus for 60 PVE mark, Indef. frigate for 150 PVE mark. This can help a lot, and make game much enjoyable. U should make rate ship mark and craft cost more exponential. Soon u will see, that La Oceans will be the only ship in PB-s. Everybody will rush for that, because no meaning to make lower rates. 1st rates should have much higher prices in conquest mark and in craft price aswell. Like if Bellona 5-10 mark, La Ocean should 30-50. i have 1 more suggestion. u shouldnt let enemy to attack players in fleet or combat missions. Its really joke that somebody start to farm with his brand new expensive ship and 5 basic cutter just appear in his mission. The solution is really easy. dont let attack players in combat misson, but to avoid unfair disappears in OS chases if a player under attack on OS he shouldnt join for a mission. I like ur game and now u have the last chance to make it a good, maybe profitable game, but if u let basic cutter swarm u wont be succesfull. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Farrago Posted June 7, 2017 Share Posted June 7, 2017 8 hours ago, admin said: no captain. but the trader tool looks at all items in the db (even obsolete ones) trader tool is not reliable and can be removed if it causes informational issues for players Please don't do that. The trader tool is bad and needs some serious love, but it's all we have. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeRuyter Posted June 7, 2017 Share Posted June 7, 2017 The trader tool is a valuable resource for trading and crafting. I have not had any problems using it. The tool is good if you are looking for a specific resource, as long as you realize the available amounts are as of maintenance. It is harder to see what a port consumes or produces, maybe adding back hovering the mouse over port on map to show what a port consumes/produces would help. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kiithnaras Posted June 7, 2017 Share Posted June 7, 2017 (edited) Well, seems that Surgeon use just received a huge nerf Dis a bug, yo - takes about 10x more Rum to use the in-battle Surgeon compared to previous (~107 Rum usage in-battle with a Fattie recovered about 18-20 crew of a missing 80, compared to about 12-14 pre stealth-nerf for the same amount of recovery), yet still has a 1:1 ratio using it in OW. 200-some Rum was previously good for a few battles and light enough that it didn't significantly impact sailing, while Hull and Rig repairs are, understandably, a bit heavier and need a little more jurisprudence in how much one stocks. I guess that's not the case anymore as the NPCs seem to be amazing professionals at long-range stern-sniping, so it's probably a good idea to carry the same weights of all three repair types. @admin Are you deliberately trying to frustrate your players? Did you not read (or care about) my previous post on punishing game design? How does this add to the experience or challenge? Was the 10-minute cooldown and relatively-small Crew recuperation not sufficiently-balanced? Do you really hate Achiever-type players that much and only want the best Killer types to dominate your game? The preceding statement was made largely in frustration, and I apologize to Admin for my unwarranted outburst. Edited June 7, 2017 by Kiithnaras Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
admin Posted June 7, 2017 Author Share Posted June 7, 2017 9 minutes ago, Kiithnaras said: Well, seems that Surgeon use just received a huge nerf - takes about 10x more Rum to use the in-battle Surgeon compared to previous (~107 Rum usage in-battle with a Fattie recovered about 18-20 crew of a missing 80, compared to about 12-14 pre stealth-nerf for the same amount of recovery), yet still has a 1:1 ratio using it in OW. 200-some Rum was previously good for a few battles and light enough that it didn't significantly impact sailing, while Hull and Rig repairs are, understandably, a bit heavier and need a little more jurisprudence in how much one stocks. I guess that's not the case anymore as the NPCs seem to be amazing professionals at long-range stern-sniping, so it's probably a good idea to carry the same weights of all three repair types. rum is bugged and will be fixed tomorrow it will be 1 rum = 1 crew (Hopefully) 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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