Hotfix 3 for testbed patch 9.99

[Suricato Rojo]

10 minutes ago, Sir Texas Sir said:

Hell most of us don't even want the cash and marks as we think that the ship once we get players ships and better captures that should make up for it along with better AI cargo, but no XP for a kill no matter how you got it is just stupid.   They say the xp is based of kill and assist than every one should get xp for kill and assist no matter the means.  IF you have a fight that is 5 vs 5 and one guy boards all 5 ships no one gets any thing xp wise no matter how much damage they did, cause every ship was captured by that one guy.   

If I captured over 1000 Spainish ships as a dreaded pirate I'm stuck as as a Thief cause I gained no xp for them, but some newb can sink 10 and will be a rank or two higher than me.  So your telling me he's more skill than I am when I have over 100 times more kills?

Agree. It dosent make sense at all.
Admin says captuting a payer ship  was a risk of free xp... but I think sinking player ships its just the same risk with 80k connies.
So no giving money/xp/marks for capturing dosent eliminate at all the exploit possibility (it completlly remains there by sinking instead of capturing) and creates an ilogical mechanic. The exaple given by Texas is very illustrative.
 

Edited April 26, 2017 by Suricato Rojo

[Daguse]

11 minutes ago, Sir Texas Sir said:

 

Hell most of us don't even want the cash and marks as we think that the ship once we get players ships and better captures that should make up for it along with better AI cargo, but no XP for a kill no matter how you got it is just stupid.   They say the xp is based of kill and assist than every one should get xp for kill and assist no matter the means.  IF you have a fight that is 5 vs 5 and one guy boards all 5 ships no one gets any thing xp wise no matter how much damage they did, cause every ship was captured by that one guy.   

If I captured over 1000 Spainish ships as a dreaded pirate I'm stuck as as a Thief cause I gained no xp for them, but some newb can sink 10 and will be a rank or two higher than me.  So your telling me he's more skill than I am when I have over 100 times more kills?

Ohh I agree you should get XP for it, especially with players. Just don't think that should be able to use capping AI ships as your main source of income. 

I think we (the playerbase) is on the same page here and who knows, maybe the devs will change it. This is testing after all. 

[Maloco]

51 minutes ago, admin said:

capturing ships (bots are not smart) was one of the main sources of risk free money. 
capturing player ships (and getting xp for them) was one of the main sources of risk free xp

we can't allow xp and money for capture. ship is the reward. If you want money AND marks AND xp - get hold out and sink the vessel.

Is this game mechanic going to be implemented in the PVE server?

And another question, in the pve server how are we going to get the pvp marks, changing them by the pve marks?

[Sir Texas Sir]

Just now, Daguse said:

Ohh I agree you should get XP for it, especially with players. Just don't think that should be able to use capping AI ships as your main source of income. 

I think we (the playerbase) is on the same page here and who knows, maybe the devs will change it. This is testing after all. 

Yah that is why I'm not saying anything about Marks and Credits.  The ship if a good one and I think the AI ships should randomly have a chance of giving you a blue unlocked ship instead of nothing but grey ships too.   That will make the reward more worth it.  Just like you get a chance to get an unlocked blue from players.   That makes up for the credits and marks.   Though cargo shouldn't be a get rich thing either, but it needs to be more than what it is right now, specially if you throw in 100-500 more players you will never be able to use any trade goods in port to make money.   You have to hope folks get buy orders up that you can fill and maybe make some money off, but that means you have to be a trader, not every one wants to be a trader.  

Historically you made the most profit by bringing back a prize ship and getting paid by the admiralty or courts for it as it was little to no profit to sink a ship.

But most of us aren't even asking for that, we just want fair xp across the board for kills no matter the means of the out come of a fight.  A kill and Assit is still a kill or assist.

[Maloco]

Based on the community feedback and the analysis of player data and numbers.
PvE server will not be closed down. 
We guarantee that it will exist for at least 18-24 months after official release. and will revisit this promise then. 

In addition to that we have not mentioned it before - but we are developing additional PVE content and new types of missions for PVE players. 
AI will be worked on after release and will provide more challenge in the future. 

 

To developers, please do not forget the pve server players

Edited April 26, 2017 by Maloco

[Sir Texas Sir]

3 minutes ago, Maloco said:

Is this game mechanic going to be implemented in the PVE server?

And another question, in the pve server how are we going to get the pvp marks, changing them by the pve marks?

Sorry if you want PvP rewards you need to play PvP content....I'm even surprised they let you trade PvE for PvP marks.

[William Death]

2 hours ago, Kiithnaras said:

The decision to require ship knowledge unlocks on different classes of ship has always puzzled me. Why? Why should a captain be forced to learn and study really small fore-and-aft riggers to effectively sail huge, hulking lineships (due to nested dependencies)? Why not just spend a lot of time on lineships and learn their ins and outs?

My proposition is this: Get rid of that nonsense. Have a heavily-scaling curve for later knowledge slots (each successive slot should take about 5x the XP of the previous slot, e.g. 100, 500, 2500, 12500, 62500). In this way, the first two slots come fairly easy, the third slot comes with a solid bit of effort, and the last two represent a significant investment without having to jump around to a ton of ships. With a cap of 21 ship slots (even after dumping piles of gold, much more commonly 3-6 ship slots), a captain will have to craft/find and scrap a lot of them to fully unlock everything with the current system, hidden costs involved and all.

As a small consolation to this heavy curve, if I, say, fully unlock all slots on a Trincomalee, then the first slot on -all- 5th-rates should be unlocked for free (Mastery on one specific ship class should unlock first-slot knowledge for all ships of that rate).

Edit: If you -really- love those similar-ship skill thingos, don't nest them so strongly. Set a base ship in each Rate that doesn't require unlocks from ships of smaller rates, but is comfortably resting at the bottom of that Rate class (e.g. Cutter, Brig, Cerberus, 3rd-rate, St. Pavel, and Victory), and not require someone to go all the way up the tree from Basic Cutter for a Santisma's knowledge.

100% agree! Only I am completely against that last paragraph after the edit: the ship skill ladder stuff is ABSOLUTELY RIDICULOUS! I really hope they get rid of it altogether.

In fact, I made a post here: http://forum.game-labs.net/index.php?/topic/19868-a-different-take-on-leveling-up-ships/ that is almost exactly like what you proposed. We don't need to grind in the brigs and cutters to know how to sail a frigate. We did that when we got our captain ranks. To learn to sail trinc, you need to sail the trinc. If you then want to sail another frigate, some of your knowledge sailing the trinc applies automatically to the other frigates. This way, captains can be good in a particular ship class, and really good in a particular ship. The current method encourages boring grinds in ships we will most likely never sail.

[Remus]

3 hours ago, shaeberle84 said:

It is not possible to harvest enough compass wood to build more than one or two frigates a day! (Even if you do only wood buildings, which you cant, since you have to build cannons and repairs and rum ...)

Compass wood is no more a limitation on Testbed than it is on Live at present. A single level 1 oak plantation (oak now appears to be the most efficient way to make compass wood) will get you 58 compass wood a day. Level 3 should get you 116 if it works the same as live. A Build Strength Constitution requires 125 compass wood. - a little over one building-day's worth.

On the other hand the BP needs 1100 labour hours with Royal Shipbuilder (I don't have Frigate Shipmaster). It will need several hundred hours to craft the ingredients, mounting to well over a day's worth of labour even with Foreman. Labour Hours, not resources (except resource locations), are the limiting factor.

3 hours ago, admin said:

Let this sink in. 

Its not possible to build more than one or two frigates a day. 

What if this is actually the right way to go? 

I think I'd probably be happy with two frigates a day. Oo one at a pinch. But at the moment it's more like a frigate every two days. Is it really the best way to encourage PvP to limit the supply of ships?

[Shrez]

5 hours ago, Davos Seasworth said:

Will you be lowering the cost of cannons at some point? Currently they are too expensive.

Crew cost too!

[RaimundoJoe]

1 hour ago, Suricato Rojo said:

So if we:
1) board a ship and capture it
2) press X and take hold (or as much hold as we can)
3) then sink it once it is with the white flag
...we optain marks and xp?

@admin say " yes. there are some bugs left but we are working on them"

That is NOT right!

You get nothing if u capture or sink trader ships. if u sink the trader u do not even get the little cargo they have. So better sink a small pickle/cutter  fleet, 

at least from that u get both PVE Marks and some gold.

[MasterChief]

10 minutes ago, AxIslander said:

@admin say " yes. there are some bugs left but we are working on them"

That is NOT right!

You get nothing if u capture or sink trader ships. if u sink the trader u do not even get the little cargo they have. So better sink a small pickle/cutter  fleet, 

at least from that u get both PVE Marks and some gold.

if u get nothing when u cap or sink the trader  is maybe the bug?  if admin says  they are some bugs, then it seems he know about it, allready,  he said, "we working on it" not  "it works"

Edited April 26, 2017 by MasterChief

[Corona Lisa]

56 minutes ago, Daguse said:

Ohh I agree you should get XP for it, especially with players. Just don't think that should be able to use capping AI ships as your main source of income. 

I think we (the playerbase) is on the same page here and who knows, maybe the devs will change it. This is testing after all. 

Nope, when you can cap your alt or enemy friend over and over again and get XP for it the system is useless, people will be max level in 2 days with all ships while others need months.

Edited April 26, 2017 by Jon Snow lets go

[Slamz]

1 hour ago, Alanxo said:

Squadron are open to everyone, so hunters could have 4 warships. It changes nothing.

I don't think hunters will do that. It's a waste of perk points for them. NPCs are useless for chasing down a fleeing enemy and with ships being expensive it's 4x the risk for them if they get busted by a bigger, better gank group. NPC fleets are decent for helping you escape but I don't see them becoming a meta for hunters. (I think hunters might do 1 level of the perk and fleet with a 6th rate though, to potentially provide cover and a little extra cannon fodder but we'll see how it plays out.)

I'm not sure what the meta for trade fleet combat will become but I imagine you would command a trade ship, run away immediately, order the other trade ship to run away and then use one or both warships to try and throw off pursuit while you escape. (And then, probably, frankly, disconnect on the summary screen and log back in later when your hunters have gotten bored and wandered off.) The object of the warships isn't to win the fight but to cut enemy sails and let your traders get away.

But I also don't think it's a bad thing to run solo acts out of the trading business.

Old Naval Action created a habit of "everyone is a hauler, everyone is a crafter", which really meant it was hard to make a profit. You can't sell widgets if everyone is hauling and making their own. It was too easy NOT to do your own hauling and crafting. I think I'm looking forward to the idea that crafting and hauling may be more of a specialty.

 

The best advice, though, may be to learn who's who in your nation and make some contacts.

I mean, I'm thinking if someone asked me (like via tell, in game) to escort their ships from A to B and I didn't have anything else specifically planned for the day, I would probably do it and could probably round up a body or two to help, and we would do that just for the fun of it to see if we run into some pirates. From my perspective as a hunter, traveling with a fat LGV fleet means pirates who might not have risked the fight might now risk it and commit and I can get a real fight where otherwise they might have just run away from me. So I'm interested.

Of course, if you can sweeten the deal by paying us, that will motivate us to hop to it quicker in the future... (If your shipyards are in the same place as ours, we would probably even take payment as a percentage of whatever raw materials you were hauling. You're hauling 5000 logs? Well pay us 500 of em. We might even bring our own haulers to do the run with you, at the same time, because we do the same runs you do anyway.)

You COULD start your own hauling guild but if you pay attention to the world you should get to know your nation-mates and start landing contacts with existing, reliable guilds and it will take away a lot of your risk and pain.

Are you excited? I'm excited. might just be these 4 cups of coffee talking, though

[Sir Texas Sir]

Well that didn't take long.  Gank squads of speed stacked LVG's that are supper fast when unloaded so they can gank folks, but as soon as some one shows up to fight them and help who they gank they all run.

[HachiRoku]

Im liking it, repiar kits for speed. We wont have 5 repairs in battle because we will be slow. Very clever move from the devs and makes the game far more tactical imo. Nice Job

[Sir Texas Sir]

5 minutes ago, HachiRoku said:

Im liking it, repiar kits for speed. We wont have 5 repairs in battle because we will be slow. Very clever move from the devs and makes the game far more tactical imo. Nice Job

My only complaint is they get three slots free, they should have to grind for them just like the rest of us so they prob all had speed stacked mods when I only have one slot open on this tub boat of a Cerberus.  I did like how fast the response from us pirates when you called out even from another port.  Good job on that guys.

[JobaSet]

3 minutes ago, Sir Texas Sir said:

My only complaint is they get three slots free, they should have to grind for them just like the rest of us so they prob all had speed stacked mods when I only have one slot open on this tub boat of a Cerberus.  I did like how fast the response from us pirates when you called out even from another port.  Good job on that guys.

They all got away too, didn't they, because star trekking still in game?

 

[HachiRoku]

10 minutes ago, Sir Texas Sir said:

My only complaint is they get three slots free, they should have to grind for them just like the rest of us so they prob all had speed stacked mods when I only have one slot open on this tub boat of a Cerberus.  I did like how fast the response from us pirates when you called out even from another port.  Good job on that guys.

Its just cargo over speed and traders might suffer less because a surprise with 500 hold looses 2 knots and an lgv with 3000 around 3 

Edited April 26, 2017 by HachiRoku
i made a mistake with speed mods

[Jim Beamreach]

I told that LGV's shoud need a nerf on the freeslots of Shipknowledg since 9.99 gets on testserver. 

But others say if you dont like pvp go to the pve server. That is the most answer what you get.

A lgv coud run 2ltd missions or something like that to get shipknowledge.

[Sir Texas Sir]

4 minutes ago, HachiRoku said:

Its just cargo over speed and traders might suffer less because a surprise with 500 hold looses 2 knots and an lgv with 3000 around 3 

I have a Fir Speed LVG that does with guns 13.21 with no cargo now , that is going to always out run your Surprise.  What is it's base speed now?

[maturin]

Wait, why do LGVs get free ship knowledge? A bug?

[Sir Texas Sir]

Just now, Ville de Klabauter said:

I told that LGV's shoud need a nerf on the freeslots of Shipknowledg since 9.99 gets on testserver. 

But others say if you dont like pvp go to the pve server. That is the most answer what you get.

A lgv coud run 2ltd missions or something like that to get shipknowledge.

On live I use mine with two frigates to hunt other traders and even solo war ships.  Some times I switch out the frigates with a suprise for a more mix of wind directions.  I have taken Trincs and Connies with it.  So they can be deadly.  Than again I was running all gold board mods too.

[Sir Texas Sir]

2 minutes ago, maturin said:

Wait, why do LGVs get free ship knowledge? A bug?

when you buy a trader they are all unlocked 3 slots...

[HachiRoku]

Just now, Sir Texas Sir said:

I have a Fir Speed LVG that does with guns 13.21 with no cargo now , that is going to always out run your Surprise.  What is it's base speed now?

Lgv empty 13.2 http://prntscr.com/f1667f

Lgv fitted as battle ship 13 http://prntscr.com/f166hq

teak suprise empty 13.4 http://prntscr.com/f166si

teak suprise with same cargo 12.4 http://prntscr.com/f167jb

suprise loose 1 knot and lgv only 0.2 that means its percentage and that is not to good

 

[maturin]

1 minute ago, Sir Texas Sir said:

when you buy a trader they are all unlocked 3 slots...

Basically making every trader vessel super fast, since no one would ever choose any other skill...