Fleet commander gameplay

[Månis]

Thonar just mentioned another concern I have, which I only skimmed the surface of in my first post: That is, what if your commander isn't very good? A commander like that could doom a bunch of the team when they try to follow his orders, and the players that realize in time that they have to ignore his orders won't get rewarded, even if they manage to win the battle when the commander would've lost it.

Yeah, when it comes to the bonus system it could be quite bad.   But if we only are talking about "bad leadership" there will always be a situation were the best leaders might not be around and someone with less experience might step up and try to lead the fleet and  the only  to learn is trying.. It might work and it might fail. It's a part of the game really. 

[Oliver H. Perry]

A Commander should be able to hand over Command to another player in the match.  I know that I, for example, would gladly hand over Command to a player I knew had talents in that area were I given the Fleet Commander tools.

[PIerrick de Badas]

Well language in pb's doesnt have to be that big of problem. For example, in potbs, in France we had some really good PB leaders like Ubert, Cous, Pierrick and a russian guy who name i cant remember :-(   Anyhow, the way most Pb were fought was to deligate leadership. For example, if Ubert lead the PB, he made sure to assign group leadership to people he knew can handle it. So the PB leader didnt had to lead the entire fleet, just the Group Leaders.  

 

And when it comes to language, all i can say is one word.... Pierrick.   A true master and commander  when it comes to this. Not only is he a really awesome PB-leader. He also manage to keep track of the entire fleet and give orders to everyone. Not just only in English but also in French. The only thing he couldnt do in a PB was to stop HMK from jumping at the door  

 

So if you need inspiration and advice when it comes to PB, i know who i would talk to...

Don t make me cry

The question for me is : is battle command still accurate as everything seems to be targeted on ow and DM4.0. On the to post about end of first test i didn t read anything about battle commander.

[Oliver H. Perry]

Don t make me cry

The question for me is : is battle command still accurate as everything seems to be targeted on ow and DM4.0. On the to post about end of first test i didn t read anything about battle commander.

 

Like many things, I'd assume it's a feature on the list, to be seen once the development effort reaches that point.  I'm sure the feature is living and breathing as other parts of the game come into shape, the developers learn more about the players and see the feedback, etc.

[Månis]

Don t make me cry

Well, it's the truth.

I cant still today understand how you managed to keep track on everything and still figh in the PB.  

[Sir Darric Vandhelm]

I can't use t/s or vent due to wife/kids and my dogs who go berserk if I talk to no one. Just make sure the system works for poor mugs like me...

I do like orders and command idea, but maybe it should be based on ship rank? After all, admirals usually had the largest ship in the fleet.

[Jack Freedom]

I can't use t/s or vent due to wife/kids and my dogs who go berserk if I talk to no one. Just make sure the system works for poor mugs like me...

I do like orders and command idea, but maybe it should be based on ship rank? After all, admirals usually had the largest ship in the fleet.

 

It's based on who has the best winrate.

[Månis]

I can't use t/s or vent due to wife/kids and my dogs who go berserk if I talk to no one. Just make sure the system works for poor mugs like me...

I do like orders and command idea, but maybe it should be based on ship rank? After all, admirals usually had the largest ship in the fleet.

You can always listen to orders on TS / Vent

[SeamanStaines]

Its a good idea. Many large actions I have seen follow a pattern where we form a line and the lead ships go off at full sail and leave half the fleet behind to be cut off from the enemy fleet and sunk (repeat of Trafalgar). This feature will compel the fleet to form a battle plan at the start. Yes its true the plan may be changed by individuals based on circumstance however any pre-planning is better than none.

[Sir Darric Vandhelm]

You can always listen to orders on TS / Vent

Yes, you can listen to orders, but if your the admiral, you would need to issue them also.

[Sir Darric Vandhelm]

It's based on who has the best winrate.

That doesn't mean they can lead a fleet though. They could just be foot troopers that are part of a successful society. I would rather have a system where players could opt-in to a fleet command path in their naval career. Then go by win rate.

[Oliver H. Perry]

And that's why I'd like to see a "delegation" function that would allow the system-assigned Commanderto transfer authority (before battle commences) over to another team member.

 

Is there value in not allowing that transfer after a short period has passed?  The idea being that you need to help protect your Commander to continue to enjoy the benefits they offer?

[Horatio Hornblower]

This is a good idea, especially if you are playing with people you can't TS with, the chat typing function drives me nuts as it is, I just hate stopping to type out orders.

 

 

The commander of any group of ships larger than two-three should not be commanding a ship himself, but concentrate completely on the battle tactics. I think that was the usual case in those times and still today.

[Horatio Hornblower]

Thonar just mentioned another concern I have, which I only skimmed the surface of in my first post: That is, what if your commander isn't very good? A commander like that could doom a bunch of the team when they try to follow his orders, and the players that realize in time that they have to ignore his orders won't get rewarded, even if they manage to win the battle when the commander would've lost it.

I guess you have never been in any military. Not-very-good-commanders are the usual case from the subordinate's point of view. Still a mediocre commanded coordinated fleet should realistically beat any bunch of chaotic brilliant I-am-the-hero captains who get in the way of each other.

 

I guess a bad commander won't be commander for many battles. So you can expect the experience and quality of your battle's commander to be equivalent to the size of the fleet which also equals the importance to follow the orders.

 

Besides, remember the order Nelson gave at Trafalgar: "No captain can do very wrong if he places his ship alongside that of the enemy."

[Henry d'Esterre Darby]

The commander of any group of ships larger than two-three should not be commanding a ship himself, but concentrate completely on the battle tactics. I think that was the usual case in those times and still today.

 

Hrm, could initiate the role of Flag Captain.  You place the Fleet Commander on a ship that is controlled by a Flag Captain.  Commander sits on his laurels issuing orders, the Flag Captain fights the ship.  Interesting idea.

[Horatio Hornblower]

Hrm, could initiate the role of Flag Captain.  You place the Fleet Commander on a ship that is controlled by a Flag Captain.  Commander sits on his laurels issuing orders, the Flag Captain fights the ship.  Interesting idea.

Well, not that it wasn't several hundreds or maybe even thousands years old...

[Henry d'Esterre Darby]

I meant from a gameplay standpoint of course.  

 

It would be useful for "organized" port battles.

[Horatio Hornblower]

@ ArchAngelWC

You're making a quite complicated suggestion. I don't say I don't like it, but I would prefer if the Devs spend their ressources more evenly on all parts of the game. (Ship design/battle mechanics/economy/world developing/NPCs/exploration discovery cards etc etc)

Edited April 15, 2015 by Horatio Hornblower

[Liq]

On 12.11.2014 at 12:17 PM, admin said:

Leading the battle

 

Naval Action has already introduced several important innovations and “firsts”:  wind backing force, proper tacking, carronades, long guns, short guns, realistic ballistics, mortars, leaks and many other things that make our game one of the most advanced Naval Warfare games in the world. Today we will talk about one feature that could further expand that lead. 

 

 

 

 

Leading a fleet is a hard task. Winning a battle requires a great admiral and a group of captains who are willing to listen to orders. Most naval warfare games provided a very shallow command and control structure before. We plan to change that in Naval Acton. Progression in Navy and Privateer Fleets (or other organized Naval Organizations) will depend on the following simple rule: Obey the Admiral. If you don’t obey Admiral or Squadron commander orders, you won’t progress in rank.

 

 

 

 

 

Here is how it will work.

 

 

 

 

 

Assigning commanders

 

 

Every battle (depending on size) will have 1-4 squadrons commanders. Commanders will be automatically assigned based on their win/loss ratios, battle rating and rank. All players will be allocated to commanders (unless they are already in a group). 

 

 

 

 

 

Giving orders

 

 

We plan to borrow an interesting mechanic - tactical arrows - from our first game:  Ultimate general Gettysburg. Kotaku named this mechanic - one of the most important innovations in military games.The unit follows the arrow exactly as you want it to. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

The commander will draw movement orders on the map. Not only subordinates will know what to do, but they will be provided with a path they could to take for better results.

 

 

Commander will always be able to track positions of his/her squadron and adjust orders accordingly. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

You might say that all this can be achieved more efficiently by voice. Well we played POTBS too. Voice is inefficient when you command more than 5 players and need to describe the best approach to target to everyone. In NA we will give a visual tool letting the admiral give an exact order; like Nelson would do it on a tactical map before a battle. 

 

 

 

 

 

Orders will have a time delay and sometimes will be received too late. Recognition and commander skill will reduce delays. Small ships and light frigates will play a crucial role in recognition of targets and will further reduce order delays by passing them between commanders (automatically) and distant squadron members. Small ships also could project bonuses over distance.

 

 

 

 

 

This system will also let our AI to become deadly without significant investments into coding - because players admirals will give commands to NPCs. Some admirals would prefer AI ships to players in their fleets. 

 

 

 

 

 

Orders

 

 

Orders will provide bonuses. Of course players will be able to take initiative, but fulfilling the order would be ideal course of action. Following a path drawn by admiral will provide a speed boost, firing at a marked ship will increase your damage and accuracy if you are in range from the command ship. Losing commanders in battle will be devastating. 

 

 

 

 

 

Motivation

 

 

Many games already provide bonuses for getting orders done. Battlefield 3 and 4 for example. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

In Naval Action players will receive AP (admiralty points) for getting orders done. AP points will help rank growth and will open access to Navy edition ships, guns and upgrades. 

 

 

 

 

 

------ We will add more info as we get more questions, ideas and comments.

 

 

 

 

 

Discuss.

 

bump

= ) 

[z4ys]

Would still be so awesome to have for pbs

[Havelock]

5 minutes ago, Liq said:

bump

= ) 

 

Damn, such an old thread... i forgot about this! I dont think this will ever make it into the game though =(

[samba_liten]

I hope it makes it. And similar leadership roles might be a good idea to improve diplomacy in the OW.

[Werewolf]

All well and good, except for the magical speed and damage bonuses. As a solo player, I rarely follow orders from all the 16 year old Lord Nelsons who sail around barking orders. And now I will be punished for it? Part of the fun in being a privateer is I choose my level of involvement. If I want to shoe up to a PB and help my nation, I can. If I want to bugger off and club seals and traders, I can. Haven't we learned anything from the stupid magical bonus crap? You've already taken my ability to built fast, paper thin ships to outrun enemies, now I have to follow some random kid's orders in battle or suffer the consequences of not playing the meta? Big fat NO THANKS.

[Corona Lisa]

5 minutes ago, Werewolf said:

All well and good, except for the magical speed and damage bonuses. As a solo player, I rarely follow orders from all the 16 year old Lord Nelsons who sail around barking orders. And now I will be punished for it? Part of the fun in being a privateer is I choose my level of involvement. If I want to shoe up to a PB and help my nation, I can. If I want to bugger off and club seals and traders, I can. Haven't we learned anything from the stupid magical bonus crap? You've already taken my ability to built fast, paper thin ships to outrun enemies, now I have to follow some random kid's orders in battle or suffer the consequences of not playing the meta? Big fat NO THANKS.

Quote

Every battle (depending on size) will have 1-4 squadrons commanders. Commanders will be automatically assigned based on their win/loss ratios, battle rating and rank. All players will be allocated to commanders (unless they are already in a group). 

Not some random kid, the best kid will give orders.

[Werewolf]

2 hours ago, Jon Snow lets go said:

Not some random kid, the best kid will give orders.

Okay, fair point... let me be more clear. I have no desire to follow anyone's orders. There is a reason I play solo. It means I can tailor my gaming experience to what I want it to be in the short playtime I have. Plus, I am an opportunist in battle. If I see a sick one cut out of the herd, I go for him. On my way over to sick cow, I might stern rake one or two guys. I change my reactions according to the situation, and I avoid being predictable. Those two things keep me alive quite a bit. However, if doing that puts me at some magical disadvantage because I'm not following Lord Nelson's every order, then count me out.