Lurken Posted October 9, 2016 Share Posted October 9, 2016 as for now we have some small brigs, a sea of different frigates and some lineships. 1 pure and not rebuilt merchant ship being the indiaman. When adding more ships i think what people want is not more frigates but some diversity like galleons, barks? also there is no sloop =) also some older ships whould be most welcome like the swedish "Stora Kronan" and the english "HMS sovereign of the seas" for example. The frigates in the game all looks the same kinda, adding some older ships whould open for alot of intresting models. Discuss! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteelSandwich Posted October 9, 2016 Share Posted October 9, 2016 The timeline prevents old legends like the sovereign to make an appearance. Guidelines are roughly 1700-1820. This also means older ship types like galleons and fluits are out of scope. We got the Le gross ventre, which is a dedicated merchant as well iirc. Don't we have the yacht as well, which is a sloop (?). 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LeBoiteux Posted October 9, 2016 Share Posted October 9, 2016 I hope there will be 17-th century ships someday in an add-on or in NA 2, 3... In current NA, there could be 18-th century luggers, brigantines, barques longues, sloops, ketch, sloops-of-war, corvettes... See for example : http://forum.game-labs.net/index.php?/topic/7951-small-vessels-and-the-new-player-experience/ 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lurken Posted October 9, 2016 Author Share Posted October 9, 2016 The timeline prevents old legends like the sovereign to make an appearance. Guidelines are roughly 1700-1820. This also means older ship types like galleons and fluits are out of scope. We got the Le gross ventre, which is a dedicated merchant as well iirc. Don't we have the yacht as well, which is a sloop (?). the luxury yatch? i dont have it, it was passed out to closed alpha testers, i was invited and tested the game in closed alpha, now i bought it on steam so i didnt even get the yatch, and you cant get one as far as i know anyways more 1700-1730 then, there was still galleons built around this time i think. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arvenski Posted October 9, 2016 Share Posted October 9, 2016 Just sticking my head in here to shamelessly promote my thread on upcoming ships, the link for which is below in my signature. Now, I'll leave again before the galleon/fluyt debate starts again. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cpt Blackthorne Posted October 9, 2016 Share Posted October 9, 2016 Why not make some of these missing famous ships a part of "secret" AI fleets that randomly appear in OW near their nation capital? It would be pretty awesome to be sailing around Willemstad and just happen to see De Zeven Provincien as part of an AI fleet that I can attempt to capture, or sailing near Gustavia and find a fleet that has The Vasa in it. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fuzzyhead12 Posted October 9, 2016 Share Posted October 9, 2016 we will see 18 guns schooner soon™ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maturin Posted October 10, 2016 Share Posted October 10, 2016 In current NA, there could be 18-th century luggers, brigantines, barques longues, sloops, ketch, sloops-of-war, corvettes... +100500 to luggers. But we already have sloops of war and corvettes. Brigantines would be only a little different from Pickle or the brig, while sloops would be identical to the cutter, so far as non-specialists are concerned. The ideal bomb vessel would be a ketch, and Chapman has a very interesting privateer ketch design familiar from POTBS. But on the whole, ketches were not a successful type. Barque longues were French proto-frigates from the early 1700s and would be outclassed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LeBoiteux Posted October 10, 2016 Share Posted October 10, 2016 But we already have sloops of war and corvettes. We have two Corvettes (The Rattlesnake and The Surprise). We could have more ! Beside, with her 38 guns and dimensions, 1793 HMS Surprise is far from being representative of all 18-C Corvette whose armament on gundeck vary from 6 to 20 guns, exceptionally 24 in 1793. PS : I talk about real Corvettes of their time, not what can be considered as a Corvette in NA with a ca. 1801 mindset. Barque longues were French proto-frigates from the early 1700s and would be outclassed. Plans are known from late 17-th C to early 18-th C, ie in NA timeframe. Example : La Belle (1780). Could be used for transport or as beginners' warships Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Twig Posted October 10, 2016 Share Posted October 10, 2016 Can we also get finally a dragonboat for us vikings?Just kiddin ~ Actualy I would like to see a new / bigger trader ship for the upcoming patch. I think that in the new tradesystem with the new trademissions a bigger is definitively needed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fuzzyhead12 Posted October 10, 2016 Share Posted October 10, 2016 We have two Corvettes (The Rattlesnake and The Surprise). We could have more ! Beside, with her 38 guns and dimensions, 1793 HMS Surprise is far from being representative of all 18-C Corvette whose armament on gundeck vary from 6 to 20 guns, exceptionally 24 in 1793. PS : I talk about real Corvettes of their time, not what can be considered as a Corvette in NA in ca 1801. Plans are known from late 17-th C to early 18-th C, ie in NA timeframe. Example : La Belle (1780). Could be used from transport or beginners' warship Actually, the Rattle and Renomee are corvettes, the suprise is still a light frigate Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sir Texas Sir Posted October 10, 2016 Share Posted October 10, 2016 Why not make some of these missing famous ships a part of "secret" AI fleets that randomly appear in OW near their nation capital? It would be pretty awesome to be sailing around Willemstad and just happen to see De Zeven Provincien as part of an AI fleet that I can attempt to capture, or sailing near Gustavia and find a fleet that has The Vasa in it. This could be a cool way to introduce new ships like they are planing the two current new ones and well even have folks get there hands on the rare BP ships that can't be broken down. Making special ships that are 1 dura so they are even more rare. That reminds me I need get a new Aggmommon built soon for a special build project. Can we also get finally a dragonboat for us vikings? Just kiddin ~ Actualy I would like to see a new / bigger trader ship for the upcoming patch. I think that in the new tradesystem with the new trademissions a bigger is definitively needed. I would like to see something with a large cargo hold and a bit more guns. Some more like and exploration ship that would also do good on raids. Yah we have two ships that carry guns, but I'm thinking like half the cargo and a bit more gun. Not the same space as the smaller cargo of the war/Navel ships. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Destraex Posted October 10, 2016 Share Posted October 10, 2016 Texas you want both more guns and more cargo space? Won't that defeat the purpose of military vs merchant ships if you can have both in one ship? The indiaman btw is pretty much the best you are going to get I think. It's got massive armament for a cargo carrier and a large hold. As for ship types we have a lot at the moment: Gunboat - tiny dingy with one gun at each end - a swarm of these historically could take out a becalmed frigate and did. Mortar Brig - Artillery ship for fort attacks A large assortment of smaller ships in between like the snow, cutter, privateer, lynx, yacht, niagara, rattlesnake etc Brigs - navy and normal brig Corvettes - cerberus but more coming Light Frigates like the renomme Frigates like the bell poule Heavy Frigates like the trincomalee Super heavy frigates and unique ships like the constitution Merchants like the gross ventre and indiaman... although I would like to see pure merchants with virtually no guns and better holds to encourage people to take them. 20-40 crew usually 4th rates 3rd rate 74 guns 2nd rate 80-90 or so guns 1st rates like the victory Super 1st rates like the Ocean and Santissima I believe there may be a Xebec coming on top of this which will be a radical new way of sailing because the sails are completely different to anything we have in game at the moment. I would like to see despatch/packet ships and specialised fishing boats as well as whalers (which may be controversial but were a major part of the economy of the day). I would love to see older ships in game, but only if the game did some sort of bi-monthly or longer time period transition. For example. The game does day and night quicker than in real life now. The game could also cycle years in a similar fashion. As the years go by more ships become available until it hits the beginning year again. In this way older ships would naturally be phased out as people took up newer types as the years progressed and more ships became unlocked. Before it started again at the earliest ship year. This could even give the feeling of always having something to look forward to. I mean once you hit the top year and go back to the first year the game will be fresh starting with the older ships... seeing them in their prime before they are finally superseded by newer designs. It will also make sure the game does not look like a strange mish mash of time periods and remains majestic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ned Loe Posted October 10, 2016 Share Posted October 10, 2016 I've heard wappen von hamburg will be added. Anyone got any info on that? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeRuyter Posted October 10, 2016 Share Posted October 10, 2016 We have two Corvettes (The Rattlesnake and The Surprise). We could have more ! Beside, with her 38 guns and dimensions, 1793 HMS Surprise is far from being representative of all 18-C Corvette whose armament on gundeck vary from 6 to 20 guns, exceptionally 24 in 1793. PS : I talk about real Corvettes of their time, not what can be considered as a Corvette in NA in ca 1801. Plans are known from late 17-th C to early 18-th C, ie in NA timeframe. Example : La Belle (1780). Could be used from transport or beginners' warship Didn't the French use the term "Corvette" for a flush decked warship carrying the number of guns you noted? Very similar to the later American ship sloops like the Wasp? What about the Cerberus? ship sloop or corvette? Actually, the Rattle and Renomee are corvettes, the suprise is still a light frigate Actually the Renommee was a frigate, just an earlier design. http://threedecks.org/index.php?display_type=show_ship&id=6154 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LeBoiteux Posted October 10, 2016 Share Posted October 10, 2016 Didn't the French use the term "Corvette" for a flush decked warship carrying the number of guns you noted? Very similar to the later American ship sloops like the Wasp? What about the Cerberus? ship sloop or corvette? A French Corvette is a three-masted ship, quite similar to a frigate but, at a given time, always smaller and with fewer guns of smaller caliber than a frigate. About "ship sloop" vs "corvette", French only knows two words for 6th-5th Rate 3-masted ships : "Corvette" or "Frigate". Doesn't English use "corvette", "sloop-of-war", "ship-sloop" as approximate synonyms ? The number of guns of 18-C corvettes, their caliber and their size varied a lot during the 18-th C : - In 1740-1745, Blaise Ollivier described a corvette as having a length fo 50-80 ft and between 4 and 16 guns. - P. Morineau wrote in 1750 that a corvette is a 80 feet-length ship with 14 guns. - A regulation from 1765 divided them into two categories : 20 gun corvettes and 12 ones. - In 1767, plans of Corvettes show 12 to 18 guns and a length from 100 to 105 ft. - In 1786, J. -C. de Borda proposed the building of 60 corvettes with 24 guns and 20 corvettes with 20 guns. The NA Surprise is one of those 24-gun corvettes. - In 1801, four kinds of corvettes were built with : 20 guns (6-pdr or 8-pdr), 22 guns and 24 guns. The Diligente with 20 guns and a length of 104 ft was considered as very good. Thus, HMS Cerberus with her 26 guns on her gundeck (+ her guns on the quarterdeck IRL), their caliber (9-pdr), built in 1758, would have been considered in the 1760's as a frigate. But she would have been considered as a Corvette if she had been built in 1801 as frigates had then much more guns. Same for the Renommée that is a frigate as you stated, with her 32 guns, built in 1747 when Corvettes only had between 6 and 16 guns... USS Wasp (1807) looks like an early-19th-C "Corvette". Some testers judge ships with a "1801 mindset". But what I would like to see in NA is varied 18th-C corvettes, especially early ones, such as : - L'Amarante (1747, 12 guns and her naval sculpture) - La Diligente (1801, 20 guns, without quarterdeck / forecastle) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LeBoiteux Posted October 10, 2016 Share Posted October 10, 2016 Actually, the Rattle and Renomee are corvettes, the suprise is still a light frigate According to French criteria of the time : - The Rattlesnake is indeed a Corvette - La Renommée is a 1747 frigate - The Surprise is the British name of a French ship captured by the British : L'Unité, a Corvette built in 1793 and commissioned with 24 + 6 guns. During the troubled time of the French Revolution (1793-1795), French over-armed their Corvettes. The British added guns and barricades on the forecastle and renamed her. Indeed, with 38 guns, one can consider HMS Surprise as a light frigate. French 12-pdr frigates built in 1793 carried between 32 and 42 guns. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeRuyter Posted October 10, 2016 Share Posted October 10, 2016 A French Corvette is a three-masted ship, quite similar to a frigate but, at a given time, always smaller and with fewer guns of smaller caliber than a frigate. About "ship sloop" vs "corvette", French only knows two words for 6th-5th Rate 3-masted ships : "Corvette" or "Frigate". Doesn't English use "corvette", "sloop-of-war", "ship-sloop" as approximate synonyms ? snip... I think you have it - essentially similar types of ships. I believe the term "Corvette" was used more by the French than the British or Americans. There may be some difference whether you consider ships with a quarterdeck and/or forecastle to be corvettes. I suspect it may come down to a 19c ship vs. a mid - 18th c ship. Good point about the Cerberus. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LeBoiteux Posted October 10, 2016 Share Posted October 10, 2016 I think you have it - essentially similar types of ships. Indeed. The main differences are : Corvettes were smaller, didn't carry more than 20 guns till 1793 (then up to 24) and always adopted the caliber French frigates didn't use anymore : - in the first half of the 18th-C, frigates carried 4 and 6-pdr guns and corvettes only 4-pdr guns - in the 1760's, frigates carried 8-pdr and corvettes 4 and 6-pdr - in the 1780's, frigates carried 12-pdr (and 18-pdr) and corvettes 6 and 8-pdr I believe the term "Corvette" was used more by the French than the British or Americans. The word "Corvette" has been used by the French since early 18-C. British started to use it in the 1830's. (if I ain't mistaken). There may be some difference whether you consider ships with a quarterdeck and/or forecastle to be corvettes. I suspect it may come down to a 19c ship vs. a mid - 18th c ship. It might be indeed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fluffy Fishy Posted October 10, 2016 Share Posted October 10, 2016 (edited) In the spirit of Avenski my signature also has a nice ship in it that would make some fun, a gorgeous 66 gun frigate that was built to operate as the role of a pirate hunter and similar to a modern battle cruiser. She has a footprint similarly sized to the Essex but with a draft more similar to Agamemnon.Would be fun to see the Xebec finally make it in, along side that i'd also like to see a few half galleys, or ships that are able to use oars but then thats a whole lot of programming that I am sure the devs don't want to do due to budget and time restraints I personally would like to see some more varied frigates and some different smaller ships, a polacca would be a good addition to have, as would some of the later galleons, not that I am a huge fan of the Ingermanland but it would be great to see a few more ships from the early 18th century.Its also about time we saw a few ships from more varied nations, the Dutch are screaming to have a ship, something like a large SoL or the De Ruyter would be fantastic, it would also be fantastic to see an italian design or two from some of the city states, I have posted a bunch of plans for the Venetian ships of the time period, with some help from the superb Sella22.Did I forget to mention I really like Fama Edited October 10, 2016 by Fluffy Fishy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jacob Elston Posted October 10, 2016 Share Posted October 10, 2016 I'd like to see more Luggers, Schooners, Clippers and Barks/Barques included in the game. For example, HMS Endeavour (1764) http://www.hotel-r.net/im/hotel/gb/endeavour-1.jpg Ships like this may not exactly be designed for combat, but for trade and exploration. Schooners and Clippers for example would be good for fast sea trade. Also some Ketches for close to shore fishing would be food. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fuzzyhead12 Posted October 11, 2016 Share Posted October 11, 2016 According to French criteria of the time : - The Rattlesnake is indeed a Corvette - La Renommée is a 1747 frigate - The Surprise is the British name of a French ship captured by the British : L'Unité, a Corvette built in 1793 commissioned with 24 + 6 guns. During the troubled time of the French Revolution (1793-1795), French over-armed their Corvettes. The British added guns and barricades on the forecastle and renamed her. Indeed, with 38 guns, one can consider her as a light frigate. the problem wit hthe ingame suprise is, that she has nothing todo with the originally suprise the ingame suprise is a fnatasy ship, based on the Master and Comander suprise, but with a diffrent rigging and caliber of guns Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OlavDeng2 Posted October 11, 2016 Share Posted October 11, 2016 the problem wit hthe ingame suprise is, that she has nothing todo with the originally suprise the ingame suprise is a fnatasy ship, based on the Master and Comander suprise, but with a diffrent rigging and caliber of guns IIRC the ingame surprise is build on the plans of the real surprise but with the rigging and the decoration of the master and commander surprise 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fuzzyhead12 Posted October 11, 2016 Share Posted October 11, 2016 IIRC the ingame surprise is build on the plans of the real surprise but with the rigging and the decoration of the master and commander surprise really i though it was the other way around, then my comment is not valid Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lurken Posted October 16, 2016 Author Share Posted October 16, 2016 what about ketches and xebecs? we want more triangular sails! and also galleon or riot! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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