Please Restore the Social Perk

[Vernon Merrill]

Clearly the devs have access to this data. Again, it's been tested to death and 2 mins wins

[Hethwill]

Clearly the devs have access to this data. Again, it's been tested to death and 2 mins wins

 

Tested and appropriately shown how it can be exploited to the brink of mental breakdown for the "victims"...

[Mrdoomed]

The professional victims?

[Vernon Merrill]

Ah Yes, the heady days of the oh-so-fun "Freeport Invisible Gank-Fleet" with their invisible ships waiting at the harbor mouth with the outboards already warmed up and idling.

 

Additionally, I cant tell you how many times I declined to engage a similar ship because of the silly "Social" perk.  The Windward Passage went from PvP awesomeness to "sail right by me"...  And yet people say PvP increased??  GTFOH.

 

It really comes down to one simple fact:

 

You should only have to make engagement decisions based on what you can see at the time of tag...  Period.  ALL STOP.

[ajffighter86]

I have not seen this, but sounds like a great idea, something that would've be done historical no? splitting the prize money between everyone.

 

but I was not arguing for 3+ min timers,  I am arguing for either no change in timers or just other changes. In fact sociable probably shouldn't make any kind of come back. the only reason why people liked it is because it decreased ganking somewhat because, you didn't know if someone def tagged you, that you were gonna get gang banged by ships or not. I might be misunderstanding you tone though that you were saying I was rehasing old ideas

 

It is I who caused the misunderstanding. The second paragraph of that post was more a reply in general than to you. I think you and I are basically on the same page here. We need fresh ideas, not just simply returning to longer timers.

 

 

Ah Yes, the heady days of the oh-so-fun "Freeport Invisible Gank-Fleet" with their invisible ships waiting at the harbor mouth with the outboards already warmed up and idling.

 

Additionally, I cant tell you how many times I declined to engage a similar ship because of the silly "Social" perk.  The Windward Passage went from PvP awesomeness to "sail right by me"...  And yet people say PvP increased??  GTFOH.

 

It really comes down to one simple fact:

 

You should only have to make engagement decisions based on what you can see at the time of tag...  Period.  ALL STOP.

 

So I wasn't the only one who refused to fall for the tricks.

Edited September 15, 2016 by ajffighter86

[Puchu]

Everything that allows ships from outside render range to jump into a battle (or from resultscreeninvis) will make it impossible for anyone to judge the situation and thus is just plain nonsense.

 

We've discussed this millions of times. All arguements have been said, all statements done and we've come to the conclusion that short timers e.g. 2 min or less, are the only thing that makes sense.

 

The issue with the timers is that ow is time compressed. So, yes while it might be sad if you cannot join some random battle appearing out of nowhere, just think about that if the ow wasnt time compressed it would have taken you hours to sail to that place, and you wouldnt have been able to join anyways. The shorter timers force fleets to sail together, so others can see what's coming for them. Trust me, after thousands of hours of playing this game all long term players aggree upon the fact that short max 2min. timers are the only reasonable way to go. And noone wants to jump blindly into a battle not knowing who will be able to join. 

 

PS: Admin suggested an interesting 2 circle solution which i would love to test!

[admin]

 

 

PS: Admin suggested an interesting 2 circle solution which i would love to test!

 

 

its coming

[Anolytic]

its coming

Nice!

[fox2run]

We have come to the conclusion that a 2 min timer is killing gameplay. 3/4 of the players have left!

[Mrdoomed]

We have come to the conclusion that a 2 min timer is killing gameplay. 3/4 of the players have left!

Just because you say that every couple days dont make it true chicken little.

[Hethwill]

its coming

 

Enough said. Thank you Admin.

 

The discussion stops here.

[Random]

Do you have proof of this, or are you talking out your 5th point of contact?

http://steamcharts.com/app/311310#6m

[Hethwill]

SCharts doesn't reach logged in but showing offline accounts. And I am sure it doesn't touch GL servers directly.

Been like that forever for many other games so give it 30% error margin please.

[fox2run]

The downfall began when 2 min timers where introduced.

 

Those remnants of a once thrifty community has gone stalinistic regarding changes that could lead to a more fun game...

[z4ys]

The social perk was introuced in august 17th and after that chart there is no big player change since the perk got removed.

[Random]

But without actual proof of WHY those numbers are down, all you are doing is assuming.   The fact is they most likely left because the next shiny game came out on steam and they went there.   Steam gamers are like puppies, easily distracted by the next shiny toy.  

 

I often call them locusts, as they go from game on sale to game on sale, leaving behind a wasted carcass of a game that could have been good.  But it was instead poisoned with their toxic bile that comes out of most of their posts and suggestions, and their need to be on the top of the heap.   Then when the next big new toy comes out, then they jump there to repeat the cycle.  

 

These same locust use to go from beta to beta doing this, now they just go from game on sale to game on sale.  

Now who is assuming?

 

I provided relevant information that (although as Hethwill pointed out should be taken with a grain of salt) shows a steady decline of the playerbase. Personally, I will wait for the full release to raise any alarms regarding the playerbase, but the correlation (not necessarily the causation) is there. I did not draw any conclusions as I don't have enough data to do so. Neither did I assume anything, especially regarding reasons why people left the game; I would advise you to follow suit and speak of facts, not suppositions and highly subjective assumptions.

 

For me personally, the game was a lot more fun with 5 minute timers, but at the same time I was also subject to the "freshness" factor of the game. After 1500 hours of playing it (yes, I had a lot of free time) this factor has worn off, but as my interest in the game has not faded, I would encourage everyone to test the new "circles" system, reflect on it, and to offer meaningful suggestions and seek compromises as this game is not being advertised as "PvP or bust" game, but rather seeks to establish a thriving world of opportunity to do as you wish in a sandbox setting. From what I have seen so far from the "2 minute timers are great" camp, your arguments seem to center solely on PvP aspect of the game. If you only focus on that, however, what do you need this giant map for? It wastes time and limits PvP, ask the devs to remove it. Alternatively, realize that there is more to this game than your approach to it and that other players have their own playstyles and their own preferences for various activities. Respect their position and seek a solution that works for everyone, otherwise this whole thread, forum, and the very idea of testing are meaningless.

[Vernon Merrill]

Summer happened.

[Yar Matey]

Well, I think we can agree on one thing, whether you support the 2 minute timer or the 5 minute timers, the timer system sucks and a new options is needed.  Preventing players to joining a battle should never be an acceptable solution to any open world game with realm battles.  This makes for a bad experience for players just looking to have some fun in battles out in open world.

 

I like this idea that has been proposed before; the later you join the battle, the farther you spawn from the action.  For every 1 minute in open world time that passes once a battle has started, the spawn point is moved 500 meters away from the center of where the action started.  If you arrive 10 minutes late, then you will be 5 kilometers out and the guy getting ganked will need to sail towards the friendly ships to guarantee that his help arrives in time to save him. 

 

This would create a race between the guy getting ganked and the gankers.  The gankers would need to kill the ship before the reinforcements get within range. 

 

Simple math:  If a ship joins 5 minute late, he will spawn 2.5 KM away from the battle.  If he is sailing 10 knots, it will take him 8 minutes to get to the point where the battle started.  Assuming he is sailing down wind and the player getting ganked is sailing upwind at 5 knots to get to his friends who are tying to get their to help, this would cut the time down to ~6 minutes.  So in total, it will take your reinforcements a minimum of 11 minutes to come to your aid, including the open world travel of 5 minutes.

 

Assuming battles never close, at some point, people will join battles and realize that they are just way too far away from the action to make any significant difference.  Sure, they could join, but if you are joining a battle that has been going on for 30 minutes, good luck getting there to make any meaningful impact, you will be 15 km out at sea in the battle realm.

Edited September 15, 2016 by Ultravis

[fox2run]

this is not a bad idea at all

[Vernon Merrill]

The 2 circle tagging will be instant.  Battle closed.  Perfect

[fox2run]

The 2 circle tagging will be instant.  Battle closed.  Perfect

 

even worse - then no reinforcements at all - terrible - no battles can be joined 

 

its a PvP hostile environment that would be created

Edited September 15, 2016 by fox2run

[Yar Matey]

The 2 circle tagging will be instant.  Battle closed.  Perfect

 

Could you elaborate on what this 2 circle tagging is all about?  I am not 100% sure on the specifics of how this is supposed to work.

[Enraged Ewok]

Simple math:  If a ship joins 5 minute late, he will spawn 2.5 KM away from the battle.  If he is sailing 10 knots, it will take him 8 minutes to get to the point where the battle started.  Assuming he is sailing down wind and the player getting ganked is sailing upwind at 5 knots to get to his friends who are tying to get their to help, this would cut the time down to ~6 minutes.  So in total, it will take your reinforcements a minimum of 11 minutes to come to your aid, including the open world travel of 5 minutes.

 

Assuming battles never close, at some point, people will join battles and realize that they are just way too far away from the action to make any significant difference.  Sure, they could join, but if you are joining a battle that has been going on for 30 minutes, good luck getting there to make any meaningful impact, you will be 15 km out at sea in the battle realm.

 

This would be great if not for ships being able to float along for as much as 10 minutes with no side structure, if they've set their perks and modules right. With as long as it takes to bring structure down, and then how long ships can float, this kills any chance of an even fight within 5 minutes of a free port or more populated national areas.

 

And assuming battles never close, take a look at the never closing green zone battles. I participated in one in MT's green zone. When I joined, the sole enemy was so far away he and the Renommee who tagged him could barely be seen. It still ended up with around 15 people catching up after sailing 20-30 minutes against the wind to get to the "fight", and then the luckless American was swamped in a battle he would have won, or at least not sunk, otherwise (he was tagged by a Reno after all). This is not "fun, massive battles." This is the return of onesided ganks that are even more impossible to avoid since the gank fleets have no game mechanic forcing them to sail close together or risk defeat in detail. This is the return of the free port gank shenanigans, and I want none of it. If a person is not in visual range of the battle, they should have no idea the battle is happening and should not be able to join, because when the battle started they were not in a position to join. Whether this happens by two minute timers or admin's double circle, I don't care. I want to fight what I can see, not the entire Royal Navy from Tumbado to Bombay localized in what was a 1v1 when I started.

[Mrdoomed]

This would be great if not for ships being able to float along for as much as 10 minutes with no side structure, if they've set their perks and modules right. With as long as it takes to bring structure down, and then how long ships can float, this kills any chance of an even fight within 5 minutes of a free port or more populated national areas.

And assuming battles never close, take a look at the never closing green zone battles. I participated in one in MT's green zone. When I joined, the sole enemy was so far away he and the Renommee who tagged him could barely be seen. It still ended up with around 15 people catching up after sailing 20-30 minutes against the wind to get to the "fight", and then the luckless American was swamped in a battle he would have won, or at least not sunk, otherwise (he was tagged by a Reno after all). This is not "fun, massive battles." This is the return of onesided ganks that are even more impossible to avoid since the gank fleets have no game mechanic forcing them to sail close together or risk defeat in detail. This is the return of the free port gank shenanigans, and I want none of it. If a person is not in visual range of the battle, they should have no idea the battle is happening and should not be able to join, because when the battle started they were not in a position to join. Whether this happens by two minute timers or admin's double circle, I don't care. I want to fight what I can see, not the entire Royal Navy from Tumbado to Bombay localized in what was a 1v1 when I started.

The problem is that you are trying to speak reasonable and honestly to player who are dishonest in thier intent. These guys want to gank and have supported pro gank or the basic enforcement of pve through the option to gank.

[Yar Matey]

This is the return of onesided ganks that are even more impossible to avoid since the gank fleets have no game mechanic forcing them to sail close together or risk defeat in detail. This is the return of the free port gank shenanigans, and I want none of it. If a person is not in visual range of the battle, they should have no idea the battle is happening and should not be able to join, because when the battle started they were not in a position to join. Whether this happens by two minute timers or admin's double circle, I don't care. I want to fight what I can see, not the entire Royal Navy from Tumbado to Bombay localized in what was a 1v1 when I started.

 

If anything, this idea will result in less ganking.  You would have to wait 2 minutes to join a battle after leaving a free port, meaning the minimum distance from the battle you start when the battle starts is 1 KM away.  The out of port ganking can be controlled by adjusting the no join timer, or by adjusting the distance you spawn away from the battle for every minute of time that passes in Open world.  If the no join timer was upped to say 4 minutes, then you would be out 2 km on top of having to wait 4 minutes to join the battle. 

 

Overall, ganking would be much more difficult with this type of battle timer because:

1)  the 5 man fleet that attacks the solo guy would have limited time to get him

2)  If reinforcements join the battle to where the ganking fleet knows that the odds are stacked against them, they can sail away from the reinforcements and most likely escape the battle with ease due to the vast distances away the ships would spawn. 

 

The problem is that you are trying to speak reasonable and honestly to player who are dishonest in thier intent. These guys want to gank and have supported pro gank or the basic enforcement of pve through the option to gank.

 

This is nothing more than a troll comment and adds zero value to the discussion.  I would greatly appreciate it if you would stop with these 1 liner smug comments.  Just because someone has a different opinion than you do, does not make them a dishonest person.  I have ganked in the past, but I do not go out of my way actively looking to gank players.  9 times out of 10, if I see a ship in open world that is easy prey, I let them go, unless it is someone who either has a bounty on their head or is someone who has irritated me previously. 

Edited September 15, 2016 by Ultravis