Demasting - any plans to fix?

[Werewolf]

So I'm sure I'm not the only one that has successfully demasted an opponent, only to watch them pop their sail repair and POOF magically, a new mast appears and your prize sails off into the sunset.

  As a pirate, this is very, very annoying! I have ENTIRELY demasted a Constitution in my Surprise, started prep for boarding, made my turn through chains to get to him assuming he's dead in the water..... NOPE! POOOOOF! Good thing the Bosun had some spare masts in his back pocket!!!

OR

 You demast, your prize is dead in the water... again, approaching to board, but oh look! Magically, he escaped battle with NO MASTS! Now back to the OW, where he sails just as fast as a brand new ship. Really???


 I would propose a change to this. If you are demasted, number one, you CAN NOT LEAVE BATTLE. Number two, you CAN NOT REBUILD MASTS. Popping a sail repair at this point should only repair sails on still standing masts.


Thoughts?

[Hethwill]

It will defeat any purposes on using mediums and carronades.

 

Game timescale and wind strength in game does not correlate with RL combats. Enough ships with rigging shot forced capable vessels to strike colours due to factors that cannot be modeled in game.

 

We have a compromise.

 

That's my opinion.

[Werewolf]

It will defeat any purposes on using mediums and carronades.

 

Game timescale and wind strength in game does not correlate with RL combats. Enough ships with rigging shot forced capable vessels to strike colours due to factors that cannot be modeled in game.

 

We have a compromise.

 

That's my opinion.

Not understanding this point. Why would non repairable masts defeat the purpose of meds and carronades? If anything, their purpose is defeated now... May as well arm Longs and stay at range, because getting up close to demast with carronades is pointless when your target can just build new ones. You gotta understand us that play as pirates/privateers, we use small ships. We can't take a lot of damage... so the window is very limited for us to defeat a larger enemy (which they usually are). When you finally get them to the demasted point, you are usually also shot up decently AND have already used your sail repair. For us it is critical that our prey not be able to magically rebuild masts. It DOES also work in reverse... if those of us in the smaller ship screw up and get demasted by the big boy we were chasing, we are crap out of luck.

Edited August 8, 2016 by Vonjager

[z4ys]

In my opinion mast/sail repairs should only repair the bottom section of a mast (simulate emergency rigging). But like admin mentioned some time ago. A big battle for a demasted ship would be boring as hell.

Edited August 8, 2016 by z4ys

[Werewolf]

In my opinion mast/sail repairs should only repair the bottom section of a mast (simulate emergency). But like admin mentioned some time ago. A big battle for a demasted ship would be boring as hell.

This is a good point. I suppose at that point your only option is to Surrender unless you wanna sit there for god knows how long...  the rebuilding of only the lower section of the mast sounds like a pretty good compromise.

[Hethwill]

Not understanding this point. Why would non repairable masts defeat the purpose of meds and carronades? If anything, their purpose is defeated now... May as well arm Longs and stay at range, because getting up close to demast with carronades is pointless when your target can just build new ones. You gotta understand us that play as pirates/privateers, we use small ships. We can't take a lot of damage... so the window is very limited for us to defeat a larger enemy (which they usually are). When you finally get them to the demasted point, you are usually also shot up decently AND have already used your sail repair. For us it is critical that our prey not be able to magically rebuild masts. It DOES also work in reverse... if those of us in the smaller ship screw up and get demasted by the big boy we were chasing, we are crap out of luck.

 

I do use the smallest ships. My main concern about guns still stands and not every battle is as my usual 1v1 but way more gruesome than that. As it stands gun selection still plays a part, a big one ( except for mediums but I still hope ). Once no more repairs on the masts can be pulled off... well...

 

Mind you I am not against I simply do not see any pros except the decisive end of a combat but as I put, we have no wind strength nor rigging damage due to violent yard turns on wind so we have a gamey compromise. We can repair the masts.

 

What do we promote by taking away the rigging repair ? ( i do use all small ships primarily so I do have an idea of how hard it can be, or how easy it may be )

[Elric]

Battle repairs would not be as good as dockyard repairs - and they would not be quick - esp. if all masts are down.  If a mast is dropped in battle, you would think there should be a penalty in effectiveness for the rest of the battle after temporary repairs.

 

I can see a single mast getting repaired temporarily in battle - probably with a shorter replacement to allow them to get a for more sails unfurled.  But if they are totally demasted it seems unlikely (read: impossible) to make effective repairs in battle.

 

Are there any accounts of demasting in battle where ships successfully rerigged their ships and sailed away?

[Prater]

I would like to see parts of masts fall more often instead of it being 95% of the time the entire mast fall.  Also, sure, keep the entire mast can be repaired, but make it take more time for the mast to be put back up.

[Cragger]

Look closely at the models of the ships and you will notice a great many of them have modeled the extra masts and yards that were carried. In the time that the Constitution withdrew to effect minor repairs the HMS Java cleared her fallen masts and got a spare mid upper mast lashed to the stump of the mizzen. While in the game it is far quicker then such a jury rig could be performed so are gun loadings, handling to the wind, and speeds.

 

Now the whole dissappearing act due to the lack of being damaged in the one minute of the coward perk and two minutes without... yeah I hate that.

[Chimera]

Don't really want to discuss "what would be realistic" all the time.

First off all its not realistic to control a 100 gun ship with a mouse sitting in an arm chair drinking beer.

When it comes to masts I think being able to repair them is good for the game. It's a trade off. Do you repair early to get your sails up and running again or do you wait for the mast to come down. A ship that has been demasted will have a hard time to recover and run away. Don't really see your point there.

Edited August 8, 2016 by Chimera

[Jack MacNeill]

So I'm sure I'm not the only one that has successfully demasted an opponent, only to watch them pop their sail repair and POOF magically, a new mast appears and your prize sails off into the sunset.

  As a pirate, this is very, very annoying! I have ENTIRELY demasted a Constitution in my Surprise, started prep for boarding, made my turn through chains to get to him assuming he's dead in the water..... NOPE! POOOOOF! Good thing the Bosun had some spare masts in his back pocket!!!

OR

 You demast, your prize is dead in the water... again, approaching to board, but oh look! Magically, he escaped battle with NO MASTS! Now back to the OW, where he sails just as fast as a brand new ship. Really???

 I would propose a change to this. If you are demasted, number one, you CAN NOT LEAVE BATTLE. Number two, you CAN NOT REBUILD MASTS. Popping a sail repair at this point should only repair sails on still standing masts.

Thoughts?

Great post all around.    +1

[Batman]

I would like to see parts of masts fall more often instead of it being 95% of the time the entire mast fall. 

You can shoot different locations of a mast and force them to come down. It's just that everybody only aims at the bottom - where the mast is thickest and therefor easier to hit, but also taking longer to fall.

[Prater]

You can shoot different locations of a mast and force them to come down. It's just that everybody only aims at the bottom - where the mast is thickest and therefor easier to hit, but also taking longer to fall.

 

Nah, I've aimed for the tops and the entire masts falls.  This has been an issue off and on since Sea Trials 1.  In the last year and a half I've seen probably less than 5 partial demastings.

[delaine]

only partial demasting i usualy get is when i get to close to a ship that i helped to catch on fire as a ai was boarding it

[maturin]

Lower masts shouldn't be repairable, but should be made tougher to compensate. And upper masts should be weaker.

 

Obviously sail damage should affect OW speed.

 

 

It's the fleet battles that screw up the calculations here. We're stuck with what works when there are hundreds of 32-pdr shot flying around. But it makes mast loss almost unheard-of in small engagements, and devalues the great accomplishment of actually taking one down.

[Cragger]

I actually spent yesterday tormenting AI LGVs just to see how many hits from 24lb long guns it took. Ultimately it didn't matter if I hit the topmast or the masthead in terms of number of shot and the entire mast always fell. It seems that shot damage always gets applied to the lowest section.

 

I still think the chain boards need to get added to the masts hit box. A mast is very thick in comparison to the hull and it is rounded made of either one solid conifer or staved. It's pretty much the worst thing for a ball shot to even try to penetrate and not glance off. Add to this that even if it did cause splintering damage masts where made strong by the compressive load put on them by the shrouds and several warships where found to have rotten masts but still could press all their sail.  If the chain boards get torn up the shrouds become slack and then the masts can wobble putting them under high tensile load. 

[Sickerthansars]

Nah, I've aimed for the tops and the entire masts falls.  This has been an issue off and on since Sea Trials 1.  In the last year and a half I've seen probably less than 5 partial demastings.

definitely can confirm shooting the tops/mid sections of the mast only makes the mast above that point fall, not the entire mast.

[MikedaBike]

To make it more interesting how about a mast has to be taken down from the top, in 3 sections, weaker at the top down to a sturdy base section, you have to work it down by sections, repairs would allow you to repair a section, maybe more than once, but you would never be able to spring 3 new masts with the magic mast beans you got from selling your family cow on the way to the market (jack). This would allow skill and time for both the de-master and the escaper..Obviously top masts would have to be a lot weaker as you don't want a 5 hour session knocking down 9 different sections to totally de mast, but with enough sections gone the job is easier enough to board. Just a thought.

[Cmdr RideZ]

The system is pretty good already imho, but...

 

More you have lost from your hull or from sails, longer it takes to repair.  This could work as some kind of small compromise.  Ship loses a mast, it pops repair, it will repair X time longer, as it has a lot of sail damage already.

 

Maybe repair times should be longer over all, so that someone could consider using their expensive survival handbooks still.  And then increase the speed the survival handbook provides.

[Bach]

If your demasting ships that regularly then it's because your hunting in ships with 24# or greater guns. Which is also the only case a demasted LVG could pop a repair and still be able to out run a hunter. We normally hunt in ships that have lower than 24# longs and never have to depend on demasting. Incidentally lower # corronades will demast at short ranges.

Simple solutions you can control-

Sail a smaller ships if you want to hunt smaller faster ships than an Inger or Connie can run down. My clan does this all the time and no LGV has ever repaired and made a successful escape.

If you know the target has a sail repair left don't go through chains or let him hear you pop the boarding whistle. Keep hitting more Masts till he pops it or while you maneuver to cut off the escape. Then pop the boarding whistle when he can't get away.

Edited August 9, 2016 by Bach

[Prater]

definitely can confirm shooting the tops/mid sections of the mast only makes the mast above that point fall, not the entire mast.

 

I'm sorry, how many battles have you had, how much demasting do you do?  There has definitely been an issue with mast hit boxes since demasting was put back in during Sea Trials, and everyone around can confirm the mystery of unsynchronized shots taking down entire masts.  Yes, sometimes you can take down part of a mast, but most of the time it takes the entire mast, even if you are hitting the tops or higher.

[Sir Texas Sir]

So let me get this right the OP demasted a ship.  He didn't have his boarding prep ready but I assume the other ship was something at like 50% sails as I always around there or lower when I get demasted.  In all that time while it slowly repairs you COULDN'T SHOOT IT AGAIN AND KEEP IT IN THE FIGHT?  
 

Sounds kinda fishy or the OP just sucks.  We watch exactly for this when we take sails down and than we pound on them while he's repairing so they don't go up hardly at all.  Never seen a demasted sail go back to fully 100% either.

 

So what exactly was OP doing from the time he popped the repair to when he escaped that is a good long timer to be doing nothing and not hitting him.   I use longs on my Surprise and can keep just about any ships sails down when the big boys are beating on the hulls.  If done right those guns can be like machine guns (shut off the other side so your not using all the crew on guns your not shooting).  

[Werewolf]

So let me get this right the OP demasted a ship.  He didn't have his boarding prep ready but I assume the other ship was something at like 50% sails as I always around there or lower when I get demasted.  In all that time while it slowly repairs you COULDN'T SHOOT IT AGAIN AND KEEP IT IN THE FIGHT?  

 

Sounds kinda fishy or the OP just sucks.  We watch exactly for this when we take sails down and than we pound on them while he's repairing so they don't go up hardly at all.  Never seen a demasted sail go back to fully 100% either.

 

So what exactly was OP doing from the time he popped the repair to when he escaped that is a good long timer to be doing nothing and not hitting him.   I use longs on my Surprise and can keep just about any ships sails down when the big boys are beating on the hulls.  If done right those guns can be like machine guns (shut off the other side so your not using all the crew on guns your not shooting).  

Werwolf here.

 As far as me sucking, I have not been sunk or captured once since going Pirate, and have successfully pulled off 50+ captures now in my Surprise, including 5 connies (screenshots of every one to prove it) so I highly doubt its my skill level that is in question here. The target in question had Coward perk, so he could escape in 1 minute. That's not a lot of time to sail through chains with crew already in boarding (guns reloading slowly) and get to your target. In any case, the topic at hand is demasting, not what I was doing in the 60 seconds between blowing the mast off and the target escaping. Please keep on topic, and keep your insults to yourself because they are not appreciated, warranted, nor are they productive.

Edited August 9, 2016 by Vonjager