Seasonal Patch: The Missing Links Part 1

[skazia]

Il y a 8 heures, l'administrateur a déclaré:

Annonce du 14 août

Après un examen final des tribunaux, des volumes du système de rapports et des niveaux de toxicité dans le chat général, j'ai approuvé la suppression complète du chat Battle avec les ennemis, du chat global et du chat d'aide lorsque ce correctif arrive sur les serveurs en direct. Le chat mondial ne fait qu'amplifier la haine et la toxicité, permettant aux secousses de parler à d'autres nations. Nous avons pensé différemment lors de l'ajout de ces chats au jeu.  

Veuillez prendre les précautions diplomatiques nécessaires. 

Le chat global et le chat d'aide ne seront présentés que sur le banc d'essai. 

 

Je ne pense pas que se soit le problème de tout supprimer pour moi se n'est pas régler le problème ses le bâcler juste il faut attraper les personnes qui sont des cancers et les sanctionnés sa je trouve que ses une bonne chose .

 

Edited August 14, 2020 by skazia

[Cetric de Cornusiac]

In any case an experiment with strong arm moderation provided by community volunteers should be done before the drastic last step of pulling the plug. Give moderators rights to ban people according to levels of rule infringement, escalating in duration of bans, with perma ban needing an okay from devs. That should do it and community stays happy.

[RegularK]

On 8/14/2020 at 8:12 AM, admin said:

Announcement 14th of August

After final review of the tribunals, reporting system volumes and the levels of toxicity in general chat I have approved complete removal of Battle chat with enemies, Global chat and Help chat when this patch hits live servers. Global chat only amplifies hate and toxicity allowing jerks to talk to other nations. We have thought differently when adding those chats to the game.

Please take diplomatic precautions as necessary. 

Global chat and help chat will only be present on testbed. 

 

Cheers lads, @admin

please reconsider this decision. Maybe put it in Action for a week and we regard it as a smack on our hands.

Communication is Essential for the fun in multiplayer computer games. It's a game in the first place and as a game, it should be played by friends, even/especially if we are in different factions.

The Problem is NOT communication or having chat channels in the game but disrespectful behaviour of many players against other players.

We only have a very small player base and i am 100% positive that the majority of the players is Willing to Adhere to some kind of Code of conduct that has fair play as base value.

If the tribunals are too much to administer or too frustrating to Look at, I absolutely understand that. But then get rid of the tribunals! Do it like Trump: slow down on testing 😉

Make some big easy to see "ignore"-buttons to individually stop toxicity in chats.

For all players that like to talk to the opponents please check out my post in the tavern:

https://forum.game-labs.net/topic/37048-the-gunroom-good-manners-at-high-seas/

You're welcome to join The Gunroom for old-fashioned battles with friends.

Three cheers, wind shadow is great!

Edited August 17, 2020 by RegularK

[GalacticHalo]

7 hours ago, admin said:

Totally understand your point.  See the benefits are all for you (selling stuff), but the negatives are all for me and some other players (ptsd, reports, toxicity, tribunals, bad reviews for bans, racism, homofobia, intolerance, hate). I don't like those negatives and see no positives. Also it would be better for national building if merchants supply their nation instead of other nations.

How about having moderators in game? If you see something then they can issue warnings

[Cathal Brugha]

6 hours ago, admin said:

There are several guys here who we always listen to.

This explains some of the bad decisions then, cater to a few players, ignore the rest. Really sucks, but at least you have admitted to it finally.

You should not remove the chat, half the fun on the pve server is chatting with everyone while doing long boring trade grind that you require.

[Cathal Brugha]

3 hours ago, Dusty_Sailor said:

It's simple, comrade. if cow is sick. You remove cow. No cow, no cow disease.

Problem is, admin's solution is, sick cow, remove entire farm.

[RubyRose]

admin just give up on trying to remove toxicity for a multiplayer game the moment u added more then 1 player playing ur game alongside other players u added the toxicity element to the game. u have already built in feature to remove toxicity of those who dont want to see it its called the blacklist. there is no reason or right to ban players over comments that can be blocked by the offended players. i would strongly suggest u go back thru an unban those that have been banned because of toxicity

i for one enjoy the toxicity on global chat, its pure entertainment. if someone doesnt like seeinging they have options of either blocking the offensive player or closing global chat

Edited August 14, 2020 by RubyRose

[RegularK]

Increase the number of people you can put on ignore list 😉

[RubyRose]

Just now, RegularK said:

Increase the number of people you can put on ignore list 😉

ive never filled it

[Jan van Santen]

As the redeemables didnt work for me, i tried the tutorial on testbed...

Not being able to nudge a ship into the wind anymore makes the 4th tut (slow down to 3.5 and board) extremely difficult, 

Only way now is to damage the enemy so much, that it slows down by water intake....which in turn  doesnt leave time to do the rest of the tutorial before the ship sinks.

Edited August 14, 2020 by Jan van Santen

[Vibrio Cholerae]

1 hour ago, skazia said:

Je ne pense pas que se soit le problème de tout supprimer pour moi se n'est pas régler le problème ses le bâcler juste il faut attraper les personnes qui sont des cancers et les sanctionnés sa je trouve que ses une bonne chose .

 

Tu parle  de personnes dans le chat nation?

[Serk]

11 minutes ago, Jan van Santen said:

As the redeemables didnt work for me, i tried the tutorial on testbed...

Not being able to nudge a ship into the wind anymore makes the 4th tut (slow down to 3.5 and board) extremely difficult, 

Only way now is to damage the enemy so much, that it slows down by water intake....which in turn  doesnt leave time to do the rest of the tutorial before the ship sinks.

Haven’t been on the test server so far, but can’t you use the wind shadow to slow down your target?

I’d expect this to be the new way to board a ship, unless admin re introduce the hability to board at higher speed. 

Edited August 14, 2020 by Serk

[skazia]

9 minutes ago, Vibrio Cholerae said:

Tu parle de personnes dans le chat nation?

Nn je parle de global les joueurs qui ne respectent pas les règles seront sanctionnés pour irrespect envers les autres joueurs moi ses mon avis 

 

[Jan van Santen]

16 minutes ago, Serk said:

Haven’t been on the test server so far, but can’t you use the wind shadow to slow down your target?

I’d expect this to be the new way to board a ship, unless admin re introduce the hability to board at higher speed. 

kinda board from the other side...yea, guess that (or demasting) will be the next thing i try

[Jarlath Morrow]

I will truly miss battle chat. I end 99% of my battles by telling my opponents good fight. Many of these opponents have later become friends.

I volunteered to be a moderator several times. I know there are other people who were also interested in helping our community be clean and happy for new players and veterans alike.

Did any of us get a chance to help?

The excuse I was given at the time is that the game had just released, and we had to wait for the population to settle. Or something like that. That was, of course, more than a year ago.

[Christendom]

2 hours ago, Captain TShirt said:

Yeah all fair points -- and my point was more about balancing immersion, social interaction, and fun in a three-way balance, rather than immersion alone being sole justification for killing off Global.

In my experience, the social interactions in NA are generally shit (especially in Battle chat and Global, although Nation chat certainly has its moments). It's led me to hold a very low opinion of the general community, especially with some of the more seasoned players who can't moderate their own behavior. A lot of touchy, high-strung, ultra-competitive, and extremely negative folks who see themselves as the lords of this tiny little make-believe realm that someone else built for them (and I say this not as a veiled insult at you, either -- my few personal interactions with you in-game, even the smack talk, have been fairly fun and pleasant, actually). That low opinion of the community is offset by a very high opinion of the game itself, which (and I undermine myself here) usually results in situations like this, where I take their side against the prevailing opinion of the community. I have to admit that I like the game they built, and I dislike most of the rest of you.  

From that personal perspective, the deactivation of Global Chat is no great loss. I don't feel it adds one ounce of enjoyment to the game for who don't need to steal fun to have fun. That opinion though, is mine, and could be proven to be objectively wrong. As a "newer" guy (coming up on my first anniversary this month!), that opinion/impression may have some value beyond its face, when discussing new player acquisition/retention -- but ultimately, it is, at the end of the day, just one guy's take on it.

I agree with the fragmentation issue. Too many nations, and the change would be easier to swallow if there were fewer, more populous nations. Not sure how you un-ring that bell though. Cutting out nations would be like dropping a bomb on the entrenched player-base, akin to a reset (maybe even requiring a reset).

Speaking as a USA player, we seem to have a pretty big population, and lots of older, less competitive/more casual types (although we've still got our crop of PvP strivers), so it stings less for us since there's usually lots of friendly(ish) banter going on in nation throughout the day. The majority of interpersonal toxicity we experience in this current era of NA comes from other nations' seal clubbers laughing at our newer (or older-aged) guys in Global as they farm our trading "hallway" up the coast or try to bait fights by SA. Turning those raiders into faceless bad guys instead of cackling bullies would actually probably help us more than it would harm us. I understand that the situation is probably different for other nations.

I mean we both know what US chat is like sometimes.  Same with GB chat.  Should those be removed also?  They're as toxic as global sometimes.  Remove all communication?  Why even have a multiplayer game that has social interaction at all.  I suspect if a poll was done, the majority would want to keep global and battle chat.  I thought we were developing the game based upon the wants of the community, not just a chosen few.  If you read the reviews, the overall opinion on the game is negative.  Quite a few mention that it has a small but great community.  

The solution would be to have in-game moderators that are active and interact with the community in areas outside of the forums where the current crop of moderators like to hang out and request changes to the game that only suit themselves and no one else wants. 

Find a couple veteran players in the larger player bases and have them keep an eye on chat and excersize light moderation.  Big issues get flagged up the chain while the mods help steer some of the more toxic coversations away.  Make it worth these players time by giving them a cool ship or something.  Easy solution to a problem that only requires basic management and the will to solve it.  

If you read between the lines the removal of global isn't really about making the game less toxic.  It's about removing tribunal posts and chat reports that take time and manpower to review.  Let's stop kidding ourselves that this change will suddenly make the 1000 players we lost post release come back.  

NA has a lot of issues that need to be worked on.  Global toxicity is at the bottom of that list.

Edited August 14, 2020 by Christendom

[RubyRose]

there is no point in moderating chats, toxicity exists and will always exist, if no here or ingame its going to drive the community away by removing the chat functions. this game is going to nose dive on population. reason being humans are social creatures. removing social interaction whether good or bad. is a negative feature. this is a war game after all most negativity is only seen on the pvp server. its normal for games like this, even with dlc ships. there is a game similar to this just not a realistic called UWO that has a community more then 10 times NA population, their admins dont punish everyone for something a few say or do or want. admins figure out what the game community wants as a whole. with majority agreeing before implementing further changes that will potentially kill ur game.

[Knuddel]

If Punishment would be more Dramaic i guess a lot of guys would Keep there Toxity for themself... 1 Warning 1 week chatban. Next warning 2 Weeks Chatbann. Next warning 1 month chatbann. Next BULLSHID: TOTAL BANN.

 And finished would be the Whole Thing. How many accounts are Registered? That would be the Solution.

 

By the way: How should someone without Alt get to Rare Woods?  Simply by asking in Globalchat... wait... U knowticed the Problem? 

[RubyRose]

4 minutes ago, Knuddel said:

If Punishment would be more Dramaic i guess a lot of guys would Keep there Toxity for themself... 1 Warning 1 week chatban. Next warning 2 Weeks Chatbann. Next warning 1 month chatbann. Next BULLSHID: TOTAL BANN.

 And finished would be the Whole Thing. How many accounts are Registered? That would be the Solution.

 

By the way: How should someone without Alt get to Rare Woods?  Simply by asking in Globalchat... wait... U knowticed the Problem? 

banning players isnt really working apparently, as our community continues to shrink, and the game has features that players can choose to block players they dont want to listen to or see the toxicity. why ban these toxic players, so what if their toxic, only those complaining about these players dont know they can simply block them by right clicking on that players name and adding them to the blacklist. there is ur solution to toxic players. every MMORPG or MMO in general with chat functions has toxic players u dont see these other games trying to remove toxicity for their community because its impossible.

Edited August 14, 2020 by RubyRose

[Cetric de Cornusiac]

17 minutes ago, RubyRose said:

there is no point in moderating chats, toxicity exists

There is a point in moderating chats. Because with penalties, either toxicity gets killed out of caution or finally the people who spread it are locked out. Easy.

Edited August 14, 2020 by Cetric de Cornusiac

[Christendom]

10 minutes ago, RubyRose said:

banning players isnt really working apparently, as our community continues to shrink, and the game has features that players can choose to block players they dont want to listen to or see the toxicity. why ban these toxic players, so what if their toxic, only those complaining about these players dont know they can simply block them by right clicking on that players name and adding them to the blacklist. there is ur solution to toxic players. every MMORPG or MMO in general with chat functions has toxic players u dont see these other games trying to remove toxicity for their community because its impossible.

But we don't ban players.  Only those that post critical youtube vids.  Not the ones that are toxic in game.    

[Captain TShirt]

2 hours ago, Christendom said:

I mean we both know what US chat is like sometimes.  Same with GB chat.  Should those be removed also?  They're as toxic as global sometimes.  Remove all communication?  Why even have a multiplayer game that has social interaction at all.  I suspect if a poll was done, the majority would want to keep global and battle chat.  I thought we were developing the game based upon the wants of the community, not just a chosen few.  If you read the reviews, the overall opinion on the game is negative.  Quite a few mention that it has a small but great community.  

The solution would be to have in-game moderators that are active and interact with the community in areas outside of the forums where the current crop of moderators like to hang out and request changes to the game that only suit themselves and no one else wants. 

Find a couple veteran players in the larger player bases and have them keep an eye on chat and excersize light moderation.  Big issues get flagged up the chain while the mods help steer some of the more toxic coversations away.  Make it worth these players time by giving them a cool ship or something.  Easy solution to a problem that only requires basic management and the will to solve it.  

If you read between the lines the removal of global isn't really about making the game less toxic.  It's about removing tribunal posts and chat reports that take time and manpower to review.  Let's stop kidding ourselves that this change will suddenly make the 1000 players we lost post release come back.  

NA has a lot of issues that need to be worked on.  Global toxicity is at the bottom of that list.

Absolutely -- yeah that's why I put the "in this era" tag on the USA comments, because in fits and spurts, National chat can get FAR more toxic than Global (and I'm sure that's the case with all nations). Lately though, it's been more even-keeled than in the past.

Generally speaking, the same-nation-same-goals aspect of Nation more or less helps keep a lid on things better than Global/Battle -- there are real coordination needs for a National chat, so I think it's a little overwrought to go down the "slippery slope" thing about killing off *all* chat.

I do, however generally agree that stronger moderation would be a solution to the problem as well. Consistently enforced, but reasonably strengthed penalties (perma-bans and stuff only handed out in chronic, super extreme cases) would go a long way.

But you're also right about the manpower factor. This is also about cutting down on work -- @admin has been open about that. I do sense that you feel that it undercuts their other reasons given, but I don't take the work-saving aspect as a major negative (could even be positive, if they can spend more time improving the game instead of untangling shit-throwing contests). If they can cut down on toxicity in a way that works within their current manpower limitations, while not destroying any important aspect of the game, I support it. I do think that we're overestimating the importance of Global chat just a little bit in this thread. 

Having moderation without people-power is to do what you suggest, putting the power to moderate folks into the hands of the community, which I think would cause more trouble than it would solve. More tribunals than ever about "unfair toxic mods who suck the devs' toes" etc. etc.

I see this as a pragmatic, if heavy-handed solution that doesn't take *any* value out of the game for me, and works under the resource constraints that the Devs face. WoW didn't have cross-chat between Horde and Alliance, outside of designated areas (LT Trade chat ftw!), DAoC didn't have cross-realm chat. It's not an unusual thing to restrict chat between large bodies of rival players in an MMO (because it breeds unnecessary toxicity). Going from my MMO gaming experience, restricted chat between rival groups is actually the norm. It breeds familiarity with your team and makes the rival team feel more foreign and antagonistic, by triggering that natural tribal part of our brains, but without delving deep enough into that circuit to reach that dark, gibbering rage/hatred that lies underneath. Cross-nation chat tends to bring forth that darker aspect.

I do understand and appreciate the perspective of those who feel that Global is more valuable to the game than harmful. I just don't share in it.

>If you read the reviews, the overall opinion on the game is negative.  Quite a few mention that it has a small but great community.  
You're right, and it's funny because my updated review right now would be the exact opposite. Game is awesome (with opportunities for improvement) but the general community is hot garbage, save for a few bright spots.

Edited August 14, 2020 by Captain TShirt

[Christendom]

Just now, Captain TShirt said:

>If you read the reviews, the overall opinion on the game is negative.  Quite a few mention that it has a small but great community.  
This is really funny, because my review right now would be the exact opposite. Game is awesome (with some areas for improvement and devs that could use a little PR polish, but are generally very competent), but the community is hot garbage, save for a few bright spots. Shit. That makes me a fanboy shill, doesn't it?

By your own admission it's only been a month or 2 right?  You entered into the gear based / super ship / DLC fest that it currently is.  Or the promises made that ended up being broken.  You didn't really see how great it used to be or the potenial it had. 

Honestly the ony thing keeping this game going is the community.  At least in my opinion.  

[Captain TShirt]

1 hour ago, Christendom said:

By your own admission it's only been a month or 2 right?  You entered into the gear based / super ship / DLC fest that it currently is.  Or the promises made that ended up being broken.  You didn't really see how great it used to be or the potenial it had. 

Honestly the ony thing keeping this game going is the community.  At least in my opinion.  

Nah, coming up on my *first year* anniversary this month -- started in 08/2019.

EDIT: Whoa! It was actually yesterday! NA first birthday rung in with a nice rousing debate in the forums  Perfect!

Yeah I think that's exactly the reason I don't share in the animosity toward the devs. I EA'ed it in 2018, and refunded within a half-hour. Waited until the "release" and then bought back in. Coming up on 1300 hours -- more than some, less than many, but enough time to learn the ropes and form an opinion on the game/community.

Then again, I was a fanboy back then too! Lol https://steamcommunity.com/id/t-shirt24/recommended/311310/

Edited August 14, 2020 by Captain TShirt

[Death XIII]

Being a new player, who has only been playing since June with 600 hours in game, let me tell you my experiences, Admin, and if you cared in any sense of the word about new players and the possibility of retaining them you should listen to this.

I'm a Pirate, so naturally many of my experiences in battle chat have been negative, especially when I'm trader hunting. If I was so weak willed to quit a game because of it's toxicity then I'd be making a mistake by being on the internet anyways.

On the other hand, Battlechat was my only real experience maker when it came to learning from my mistakes in battle and learning as a player. Sure, I've had some toxic words spouted towards me, but where I really ever improved on my skill and knowledge was by talking to the enemy player who had bested me in a fight. It was with them that I would ask exactly what mistakes I made that costed me a fight. 9/10 times this has been a positive and constructive conversation. There's no better way to learn than from that of a player who had the knowledge and skill to beat you in a fair fight. It was that critism that ever allowed me to become a better player and strive to improve my skills when my flaws and short comings were pointed out to me. 

With this update you are removing that ability for players, especially newer ones with any interest in growing as a player. Not only that, but for much of the older players who I have come to call friend's now find themselves a click away from uninstalling the game and leaving it behind. You have singlehandedly strangled whatever breath of life this dead game had before this update. 

As famous as you are for banning any opposing views I tell you this, it's okay to make mistakes, especially with what you think might be the right course of action, but it is not okay to die on that hill where the players of YOUR game tell you that you are making a mistake. 

 

Sure, it's your game, but at this pace you will find yourself alone sailing around in that trincomalee in a empty world that was once filled with life, and you will have succeeded in creating an echo chamber for yourself on these forums.