Seasonal Patch: The Missing Links Part 1

[Vitasalato]

On 8/8/2020 at 9:44 AM, admin said:

• Determined defender now requires attacker to have 30% more crew to overcome stiff resistance. 

 

I have a question on how the 30% is calculated. 

If we have:

• Defender: Victory with no bonuses with DD - 850(+30%)
• Attacker:   L'Ocean with Crew bonus 4          - 1100+88

Case 1: Is it simply based on the amount of crew visible in battle, so including Port bonuses, upgrades and skill books

850 +30% = 1105 < 1100+88 --> boarding possible

 

Case 2: is it based on the base crew value of the ships, so excluding any kind of crew bonus

850 +30% = 1105 < 1100+88 --> boarding not possible

[Cetric de Cornusiac]

5 hours ago, Conte D. Catellani said:

Any plan to make Leopard more interesting? She is so beauty but she doesn't  have the success of the Rattvisian 

... and that despite the 'boobs' bonus.

Also she isn't yet in admiralty store for combat medals. Which was normal for all DLC ships before her.

[Cetric de Cornusiac]

1 hour ago, Yachteru said:

I dont know what went on in the months im gone but for global to be removed I guess it must be pretty bad. 

Then I had an idea, what if we removed all the chats in pvp and only had signal flags to communicate primarily.

•  Eg. Pirate player A sees Pirate player B with a chase flag icon, and Pirate player B is behind British player A.
• British player A is flying the signal flag for reinforncement, Pirate player A and B can see that.
• British player B happens to pass and sees the reinforcement flag, and activates the attacking signal flag to tag pirate players.
• British player A sees that British player B has attacking signal flag and can change a flag to a "thanks signal" or also signal "attacking" so British player B knows A will be attacking too :3

Then when you enter a port, there is a local chat there but it is not global, everything happens in that port only. 

Nice idea, but we would need a whole 'signal book' to understand the messages. Imagine noobs being lost at that...

[USS Ambassador]

@adminFrom what I saw on the global discord, it didn't sound like Sir John was claiming that the rudder effect was wrong, must have been an issue of wording.

You said you'd ban anyone defending him, so go ahead if that's what you want to do, but for the record, I have not been direspectful to you or anyone else, and I don't even play other sailing games, let alone be part of their dev team.

[Yachteru]

1 minute ago, Cetric de Cornusiac said:

Nice idea, but we would need a whole 'signal book' to understand the messages. Imagine noobs being lost at that...

actually i was just thinking something simpler xD

[admin]

32 minutes ago, USS Ambassador said:

@adminFrom what I saw on the global discord, it didn't sound like Sir John was claiming that the rudder effect was wrong, must have been an issue of wording.

You said you'd ban anyone defending him, so go ahead if that's what you want to do, but for the record, I have not been direspectful to you or anyone else, and I don't even play other sailing games, let alone be part of their dev team.

Feudalism was banned for being a shithead some time ago. He registered a new acc under sir john
his comments are live here in this thread so no its not a question of wording. You can see what he said.

and once you take into account that he is a consultant (or maybe even a developer) on another sailing game his comments come in the new light. Especially phrasing, where he tries to shed doubt on existence of descriptions of battle sail proportion formulas by stating its false (while its obviously not). Or denies the fact that rudder when heeling works differently, he just wants to talk badly about everything naval action because he has an agenda. (working for other developer)

So no.. it was not a question of wording - he is a hater under a thin veneer of pretending to be a sailor to shit on other sailing games.

[Henry Long Castle]

5 hours ago, Sir John said:

I don't completely know what you mean by screwing rudder or keel positions. 

Sir if you dont know that when a ship is heeling you have to use rudder to keep it going in a straight line then how can you know about the rest ?  I have never sailed with a ship with more than one mast but I sure as hell know that much. Maybe wrong choice of words?
I understand that wind shadow might be a bit too strong for the taste of some people (I like it as it is).

Edited August 27, 2020 by Henry Long Castle

[DDZ_Vasduten]

2 minutes ago, Henry Long Castle said:

Sir if you dont know that when a ship is heeling you have to use rudder to keep it going in a straight line then how can you know about the rest ? Hell I have never sailed with a ship with more than one mast but I sure as hell know that much. 
I understand that wind shadow might be a bit too strong for the taste of some people (I like it as it is) but what you said almost sounded like a guy saying "wind doesnt matter in sailboats"... 

Yeah, that was my issue with the statement.

That wind shadow was barely a consideration, when in actuality all sailing doctrine was based on it... because... wait for it.... sailing ships rely on WIND for power.

[Henry Long Castle]

deleted

Edited August 27, 2020 by Henry Long Castle

[Beeekonda]

9 minutes ago, Henry Long Castle said:

He probably is one the people that never use sails on a modern sailboat because it has a small engine lel

he sails on USS Niagara....

[Cetric de Cornusiac]

I think I know what 'other sailing game' admin meant. Because I have seen a 'Sir John' there (while I am there too, under same name and avatar, it's no secret). This 'other game' has a clean personnel structure which can be seen on another page. Therefor I can say 'Sir John' isn't a developer. Else they invite volunteers with their advice, and 'Sir John' provided some posts which clearly indicate he knows something about sailboats from own experience and theory. He offered his help as volunteer there - which does not make him someone working for another developer in the definition of being paid... actually I also tried to contribute there. Which does not make me (or Sir John) an opponent of Naval Action.

Please reconsider this ban. We are here and we are there, because we love such games you (and them) make. We have an opinion based on what we think we understand, we do an argument, so that makes us a bit emotional at times...

Edited August 27, 2020 by Cetric de Cornusiac

[Henry Long Castle]

deleted

Edited August 27, 2020 by Henry Long Castle

[Beeekonda]

3 minutes ago, Henry Long Castle said:

then how the hell doesnt he know that when heeling the boat needs rudder input constantly to go straight ?

Sorry didnt read whats all this huss about + I dont really care whos right/wrong. Just wanted to point out hes one of you sailing nerds.

tis only vidia gmae

[Random Noob]

There are differences between little 18 feet racing boats and big 18th century wooden carved ships with multiple masts.

It's like first rates sailing backwards because admin posted a picture of a small boat sailing on a river using it's anchor as a pivot point to do all sorts of fancy maneuvers.

[Henry Long Castle]

deleted

Edited August 27, 2020 by Henry Long Castle

[Henry Long Castle]

Speaking of ships of the line reversing, is that close enough ? 

 

 

[Random Noob]

Ship with metal hull and metal masts ...

[Henry Long Castle]

2 minutes ago, Random Noob said:

Ship with metal hull and metal masts ...

So wooden ships with wooden masts were not able to reverse like that because of their material? In case they got stuck on irons I guess they would pray for the wind to change or lower the boats to try and turn themselves around.

[Frosty]

Sir John was not advertising that other game... so I don't understand why he was banned, but nevermind. I agree with @Cetric de Cornusiac 100%
 

[Raf Van Boom]

4 hours ago, admin said:

indeed. any basic search provides 10 beautiful short videos on how heel affects rudder. ser john definitely unmasked himself when he claimed rudder is not affected by heel 

 

I really hope that the other sailing game team does not get derailed by armchair designers like we were initially

a square rigged ship cannot achieve that kind of heel as it cannot get anywhere close to the wind. 50-60 deg. is all they can.  The USS Niagara will capsize at 30 deg heel, a study was done - you can read that here

[Urchin]

8 hours ago, Aquillas said:

Did you test it really? Probably just a feeling, isn't it?

I don't give a hello kitty about NPC battles or with a mate vs a Wapen who should demasted you both with the first few minutes especially you sailing around at full sail, that would literally be just four hits from the stern chasers to demast a Priv if he knew where to shoot, same deal for a Prince. 

Testing I've had over a dozen solo battles since the update in a Prince vs other players in everything from Indiaman to a Connie. No one has more hours and kills in a Prince solo on this server since release than me. And I can guarantee you that the ship is now seriously nerfed because with battle sails you lose all agility and performance. Full sail you get demasted in a instant even if they don't know where to shoot. 

Before with skill you could fight a greater range of enemy ships and be successful, basically anything you could tag was winnable. Now the performance is degraded so heavily you're pretty much left to hunt traders and warships with 250 crew or under.  

Considering the dwindling player base and that most now sail 4th rates and bigger that leaves hours of searching to maybe find one enemy you're able to engage.  And for that amount of time involved  this just isn't worth it anymore. 

Edited August 27, 2020 by Urchin

[USS Ambassador]

3 hours ago, admin said:

Feudalism was banned for being a shithead some time ago. He registered a new acc under sir john
his comments are live here in this thread so no its not a question of wording. You can see what he said.

and once you take into account that he is a consultant (or maybe even a developer) on another sailing game his comments come in the new light. Especially phrasing, where he tries to shed doubt on existence of descriptions of battle sail proportion formulas by stating its false (while its obviously not). Or denies the fact that rudder when heeling works differently, he just wants to talk badly about everything naval action because he has an agenda. (working for other developer)

So no.. it was not a question of wording - he is a hater under a thin veneer of pretending to be a sailor to shit on other sailing games.

Thank you for the reply.

I have sailed with Sir John for some time, we've been clanmates for a while. I know he's just a student of History, as far as I know he has no programming/game development background at all. As Cetric said, his involvement with that other project is limited to sharing those inputs, which I'm pretty sure is not against any rules, since we're not GameLabs employees and we can participate in forums of any games that we like.

[Slim McSauce]

6 hours ago, admin said:

indeed. any basic search provides 10 beautiful short videos on how heel affects rudder. ser john definitely unmasked himself when he claimed rudder is not affected by heel 

 

I really hope that the other sailing game team does not get derailed by armchair designers like we were initially

The picture alone is enough to convey the effect heel has, even to a layman such as myself.
Any plans to upgrade grappling? I've been playing the Total War series and the use of grapples
seems to be much more realistic. Care to take a look and consider how NA can improve?

[DDZ_Vasduten]

2 hours ago, Urchin said:

 

Testing I've had over a dozen solo battles since the update in a Prince vs other players in everything from Indiaman to a Connie. No one has more hours and kills in a Prince solo on this server since release than me. And I can guarantee you that the ship is now seriously nerfed because with battle sails you lose all agility and performance. Full sail you get demasted in a instant even if they don't know where to shoot. 

Before with skill you could fight a greater range of enemy ships and be successful, basically anything you could tag was winnable. Now the performance is degraded so heavily you're pretty much left to hunt traders and warships with 250 crew or under.  

 

I like the changes because it's not an accurate portrayal of sailing naval fights if we have tiny ships buzzing around frigates like flies. The light ships were enjoying an unfair advantage for... ever here. No masts would have been able to take more then a few hits from a 32p carro or any long guns, if not breaking from one good hit without some bands and reinforcement.

I'd suggest putting mast upgrades on. Even just a basic French Rig helps a lot. 

I agree that the performance is worse but let's be honest: was anyone ever sailing such ships by flipping ALL the sails so they could bounce around like a ninja?
Even now... you can pull off some really gamey stuff with the Prince in battle sails, but you'd better not try it close to a frigate.  If the only reason light frigates were able to stern camp and take down much bigger ships was that they were cartoonish, then I say I'm glad for the change.

I preyed on lots of much bigger ships in the Snow and Prince, and it was dirty. Sure, it was fun... but there are other ways to have fun now that the era of BS from it is over.

[Macjimm]

3 hours ago, DDZ_Vasduten said:

was anyone ever sailing such ships by flipping ALL the sails so they could bounce around like a ninja?

This thread is a good read.  Pleasant change from the doom and gloom rants of the "dieing" server mythologies