Seasonal Patch: The Missing Links Part 1

[Genevieve Malfleurs]

my short resume of the latest changes: great improvements fellow devs! the physics and battle-sails make the game much more tactical and interesting. exciting! well, well done!!! and finally: frigates and smaller are so much fun again now

[Captain146]

5 minutes ago, Genevieve Malfleurs said:

my short resume of the latest changes: great improvements fellow devs! the physics and battle-sails make the game much more tactical and interesting. exciting! well, well done!!! and finally: frigates and smaller are so much fun again now

+1 i'm playing again after this patch and liking it.

[Karpfanger]

I really like the changes regarding sailing. They make the game a bit more realistic, although a bit more complex for beginners. Also, I think some fine tuning is needed here.

The Portbattle teleport system is bullshit in my opinion. But I have already criticized that elsewhere.

Looting wrecks from a distance is an invitation to steal... and thus a self-created problem that we don't need.  It contradicts the increased complexity of sailing if I can plumb wrecks from a distance and don't even have to sail there. In reality, one might have launched dinghies. But that would have taken a while.

[Guest]

3 hours ago, Karpfanger said:

I really like the changes regarding sailing. They make the game a bit more realistic, although a bit more complex for beginners. Also, I think some fine tuning is needed here.

The Portbattle teleport system is bullshit in my opinion. But I have already criticized that elsewhere.

Looting wrecks from a distance is an invitation to steal... and thus a self-created problem that we don't need.  It contradicts the increased complexity of sailing if I can plumb wrecks from a distance and don't even have to sail there. In reality, one might have launched dinghies. But that would have taken a while.

I guess the Portbattle teleport is for gamey reasons, but I totally agree with you (I am however on PVE server, and we jsut afk sail to a battle beforehand)

The looting I also agree with. Pre-patch, I could easily take my Floating Battery Ocean up against 12 5th rates, and loot them all through the fight, or against 4-5 1st rates and usually be able to loot them all, a bit depending on incoming damage. I really don't think this was needed. Again, it has been asked for quite some time (easier looting)

[helena]

New update is amazing, shadow will be rlly nice for the PB

[MassimoSud]

Wind shadow is great!  I'm sure he will add a lot of tactics in the PBs (I haven't tested it yet in PB).

HP and thickness increasing with different sails, absolutely great!  

A suggestion,please slightly increase the bonuses of mast refits (less easy to demast fregates) and decrease a little the cannons penetration beyond 250 meters.

[Rektified]

@admin Bug report re: how armor thickness is calculated.

Live Oak/Sabicu L'Ocean: 122 armor base thickness.

Cartagena Caulking is supposed to add 9% thickness.  122x0.09 = 10.98.  Even if you round down, that should be 10 thickness.  However, I got 131 (i.e., 9) from Cartagena.

Same problem with Navy Structure.  7% thickness = 8.54.  However, I get only 7.

So a L'Ocean which starts at 122 should end up at 140 at the least (arguably 141), but is at 138.

[Holm Hansen]

36 minutes ago, Rektified said:

@admin Bug report re: how armor thickness is calculated.

Live Oak/Sabicu L'Ocean: 122 armor base thickness.

Cartagena Caulking is supposed to add 9% thickness.  122x0.09 = 10.98.  Even if you round down, that should be 10 thickness.  However, I got 131 (i.e., 9) from Cartagena.

Same problem with Navy Structure.  7% thickness = 8.54.  However, I get only 7.

So a L'Ocean which starts at 122 should end up at 140 at the least (arguably 141), but is at 138.

L'Ocean have a base thickness of 100. Live Oak/Sabicu (wood bonuses) are additional bonuses, do not count as part of the base thickness, which is the base for the calculation of the refit bonuses

[Schnapss]

Pirate refit has no positive affect on saling profile on ships like Niagara, Trincomalee and Endymion. Elite pirate refit adds 0.1-0.2 knots to 90 and 105 directions and significantly decreases speed on all others directions. Does it work as intended?

 If mast thickness and damage is connected to wind pressure, what damage modifiers will get an enemy ship if I chain him to 70%? Active sails are calculated as (sails durability * sailing profile) for battle sails the result will be 37%. Base нalf sails modifier is 31%. 37 is closer to 31 than to 53. I'm asking again for the full formula.

Here has been said that damage and thickness modifiers are applied not instant but according to current sails percent. If I press battle sails from full sails the current percent changes immediately. Does it mean that modifiers are changed immediately as well?

Developers, could you be precise in your descriptions in the future when it comes to core game mechanics?  

[Henry Long Castle]

28 minutes ago, Schnapss said:

 If mast thickness and damage is connected to wind pressure, what damage modifiers will get an enemy ship if I chain him to 70%? Active sails are calculated as (sails durability * sailing profile) for battle sails the result will be 37%. Base нalf sails modifier is 31%. 37 is closer to 31 than to 53. I'm asking again for the full formula.

I was being  chased by 2 trincomalees and an endymion in my bermuda S WO S constitution 

Even at 70% sails I was able to still do 8 knots upwind since they would mostly damage my square sails and not my stay sails. So even like that i was able to fight all 3 of them while tacking and keeping the wind at all times making it very difficult for them to do anything and was able to escape.

Considering that even at battle sails you dont loose that much speed, you might need to chain someone down to 50% or something to have the same effect as chaining someone to 70% used to have before the patch. 

[helena]

14 hours ago, Holm Hansen said:

L'Ocean have a base thickness of 100. Live Oak/Sabicu (wood bonuses) are additional bonuses, do not count as part of the base thickness, which is the base for the calculation of the refit bonuses

So navy plank still better than cartagena 100%,cartagena is useles now?

[You]

43 minutes ago, Schnapss said:

Here has been said that damage and thickness modifiers are applied not instant but according to current sails percent. If I press battle sails from full sails the current percent changes immediately. Does it mean that modifiers are changed immediately as well?

Developers, could you be precise in your descriptions in the future when it comes to core game mechanics?  

i also wonder if the thickness bonus is increased the second you click the hotkey for battle sails or when its increased when the crew has finished setting the sails to battle sails

Edited August 25, 2020 by You

[Schnapss]

1 hour ago, Henry Long Castle said:

I was being  chased by 2 trincomalees and an endymion in my bermuda S WO S constitution 

Even at 70% sails I was able to still do 8 knots upwind since they would mostly damage my square sails and not my stay sails. So even like that i was able to fight all 3 of them while tacking and keeping the wind at all times making it very difficult for them to do anything and was able to escape.

Considering that even at battle sails you dont loose that much speed, you might need to chain someone down to 50% or something to have the same effect as chaining someone to 70% used to have before the patch. 

Your actual speed with damaged sails does not matter. The general subject of my post was about math, because description above very unclear and cant be connected with reality. 

 

[CaptLouis]

On 8/22/2020 at 12:55 PM, admin said:

front qe
back zc 

which button. the only concern is the button. In sea legends we have worked around this very creatively but here we are not sure which buttons to use for central mast

A possibility would be to keep Q/E and Z/C as they are, but additionally allow the M key to toggle through these 3 states:

Main & Mizzen (by default)
Main only
Mizzen only

...so no changes to muscle memory for existing players who do not want fine control of main or mizzen alone.

[admin]

1 hour ago, Henry Long Castle said:

I was being  chased by 2 trincomalees and an endymion in my bermuda S WO S constitution 

Even at 70% sails I was able to still do 8 knots upwind since they would mostly damage my square sails and not my stay sails. So even like that i was able to fight all 3 of them while tacking and keeping the wind at all times making it very difficult for them to do anything and was able to escape.

Considering that even at battle sails you dont loose that much speed, you might need to chain someone down to 50% or something to have the same effect as chaining someone to 70% used to have before the patch. 

Yes this is how it works. Because the power utility is not linear now and extra amount of sail has less and less utility, same thing is applied to damage. Destroy first 10% of sail power does not result in 10% speed loss. Destroy 50% of sails and the ship will still sail at 70%+ speed. 

[Koltes]

1 minute ago, admin said:

Yes this is how it works. Because the power utility is not linear now and extra amount of sail has less and less utility, same thing is applied to damage. Destroy first 10% of sail power does not result in 10% speed loss. Destroy 50% of sails and the ship will still sail at 70%+ speed. 

Is it possible to have a chart or pictures to show us how exactly wind shadow is applied? I mean we got it that the enemy ship is in the way for the wind to get to you. But how does it actually work in the game?

Specifically those questions:
1. If he turns his sail parallel to the wind, will the wind shadow have lower effect or being canceled completely since wind is traveling through his parallel sails?
2. How does wind spread around the ship? If we will be looking from the top view how would you draw the boarder of the wind shadow? At what distance? Does it gradually lowers the effect with distance and the edges of the wind shadow effect?
3. Does smaller ship have smaller wind shadows? Specifically - will I be effectively blocking the wind for the 1st rate while sailing Trinco?
4. How does the shape of the wind shadow (area of effect) looks like? Does it gets narrower with distance, does it gets wider with distance? Does it remain the same?

Graphical explanation would have been VERY helpful. If I could get full info on how wind shadow works I can make such graphical illustration for people to use

[Holm Hansen]

3 hours ago, helena said:

So navy plank still better than cartagena 100%,cartagena is useles now?

"useless" is a bad word. let´s say it is inferior
... but it doesn't cost combat medals and you sometimes have it as loot

[Genevieve Malfleurs]

1 hour ago, Koltes said:

Is it possible to have a chart or pictures to show us how exactly wind shadow is applied? I mean we got it that the enemy ship is in the way for the wind to get to you. But how does it actually work in the game?

Specifically those questions:
1. If he turns his sail parallel to the wind, will the wind shadow have lower effect or being canceled completely since wind is traveling through his parallel sails?
2. How does wind spread around the ship? If we will be looking from the top view how would you draw the boarder of the wind shadow? At what distance? Does it gradually lowers the effect with distance and the edges of the wind shadow effect?
3. Does smaller ship have smaller wind shadows? Specifically - will I be effectively blocking the wind for the 1st rate while sailing Trinco?
4. How does the shape of the wind shadow (area of effect) looks like? Does it gets narrower with distance, does it gets wider with distance? Does it remain the same?

Graphical explanation would have been VERY helpful. If I could get full info on how wind shadow works I can make such graphical illustration for people to use

it seems to be rather sophisticated. includes depowered sails as well and so on. my impression - might be wishful thinking - is that each sail produces its own effect. i guess there is a lot inteference swirl (if that´s the correct term in english) in reality

[Aquillas]

 

3 hours ago, Henry Long Castle said:

I was being  chased by 2 trincomalees and an endymion in my bermuda S WO S constitution 

Even at 70% sails I was able to still do 8 knots upwind since they would mostly damage my square sails and not my stay sails. So even like that i was able to fight all 3 of them while tacking and keeping the wind at all times making it very difficult for them to do anything and was able to escape.

Considering that even at battle sails you dont loose that much speed, you might need to chain someone down to 50% or something to have the same effect as chaining someone to 70% used to have before the patch. 

In first analysis (not taking into account the relative wind measured from the ship deck), the wind force is proportional to the surface of active sails (the ones which are exposed to wind, not screened by others, and not "chained"). The reaction of the see on the hull is proportional to the ship speed squared, so that the speed is about proportional to the root square of the active surface. So yes, the root of 0.5 is around 0.7. This seems to be pretty well modeled  in game.

For me, all that is OK.   Sorry for math haters!  

[Genevieve Malfleurs]

On 8/24/2020 at 12:42 PM, Archie_75 said:

Buildings:

As an Architect I am very displeased to see the latest changes in the game.

What historical research was done on indigenous buildings and townscape in the Caribbean of the period? I suspect none at all.  

So we have harbours/towns that are totally incorrect for either the Nation or the situation (When possession of an island or port changed hands the incoming nation didn't just wipe out all the infrastructure!) So there is no recognisable sense of "place" anywhere on our map at all which is ludicrous. 

We have towns/buildings which against the ships are at least 5 times over scale. (Yes with the average length of a 5th rate being  some 135 foot (41 M) then compared on the dock it makes the floor to floor height of the average dwelling approx 35 foot or 12 metres lol)

The scale of the jetty on the dock is at least twice that of the ships. (Try looking at a barrel and see if you could get that into any of the ships.

So why did you spend all this time and energy in remodelling the buildings when they are so totally wrong ?

you´re taking this too serious in my opinion. try to see it as a symbolic presentation in a game :). collegial greetings, gen

[admin]

2 hours ago, Aquillas said:

 

In first analysis (not taking into account the relative wind measured from the ship deck), the wind force is proportional to the surface of active sails (the ones which are exposed to wind, not screened by others, and not "chained"). The reaction of the see on the hull is proportional to the ship speed squared, so that the speed is about proportional to the root square of the active surface. So yes, the root of 0.5 is around 0.7. This seems to be pretty well modeled  in game.

For me, all that is OK.   Sorry for math haters!  

oh shit you have the book ))) please don't give it to anyone. We want to keep the headstart.

[admin]

4 hours ago, Koltes said:

Specifically those questions:
1. If he turns his sail parallel to the wind, will the wind shadow have lower effect or being canceled completely since wind is traveling through his parallel sails?
2. How does wind spread around the ship? If we will be looking from the top view how would you draw the boarder of the wind shadow? At what distance? Does it gradually lowers the effect with distance and the edges of the wind shadow effect?
3. Does smaller ship have smaller wind shadows? Specifically - will I be effectively blocking the wind for the 1st rate while sailing Trinco?
4. How does the shape of the wind shadow (area of effect) looks like? Does it gets narrower with distance, does it gets wider with distance? Does it remain the same?
 

1. Yes
2. Yes. Your masts in windshadow can be partially affected. If you only have front mast - it will be affected. Your ship can be under influence of several windshadows. But the biggest ship (strongest) windshadow will have the most influence.
3. Yes. Size and strength of the windshadow depends on length of a ship and length of masts. Hull also affects it if relative size is different (for example victory can partially block wind from a cutter with just a hull, while cutter due to its length will have a negligible effect on Victory.
4. Trapeze. 

You can test it in game - all works amazingly well and many users have figured it out by testing various options (it works on friendly ships)

Our programmer made a technical wonder. Which server based - with all the dynamic windshadows (based on mast positions) is actually moving around with ships on the servers replicating without any issue for all participants in a battle. 

[Puchu]

It's been a very long time since I said this. Actually I might have never said this before:

I really really like all the changes you made in this patch! 

 

The removal of global chat is great! The game in general is much more relaxed because of it. Also the Nation chat is more active and there is way more helpfull stuff and no flaming, since you are talking to allys.

The removal of battle chat is also great! I dont get bad comments. If the player really played well i can just take the time and message him/her in private.

Its really nice that now you can actually do something to protect your masts. 

And the wind shadow really adds another level to duels and fleet fights. 

Overall i really like the changes so this is maybe the first ever "Well done admin" 

Enjoy it and dont mess it up again

[jodgi]

20 minutes ago, Puchu said:

Its really nice that now you can actually do something to protect your masts.

Interesting, could you elaborate how the changes enables you to do that...

[Koltes]

3 hours ago, jodgi said:

Interesting, could you elaborate how the changes enables you to do that...

Go battle sails to increase armor by 25% and have damage reduction by 30%, due to less stress on the masts applied by the wind force.

I really like that too. Its fantastic and helps to make demasting harder