When will something be done about ridiculous NPC buffs?

[Thonys]

5 minutes ago, Ahoy H.R. Matey said:

Advice from someone who posts a screenshot of having sunk a bunch of fifth rates in a Christian as if it is some kind of accomplishment is very hard to take seriously. Just saying. This kind of match-up is my standard battle in an old blue teak/wo Bellona, and without poods.

Start fighting same rates and then we can talk.

you are a good example of why you will lose battles in PvE .

same rates you say..... not smart (all i am going to say about it...

you better start thinking....)

 

Edited May 15, 2019 by Thonys

[Sir Texas Sir]

1 hour ago, Angus MacDuff said:

This is actually a really good point.  No matter how tough the Devs make NPC combat, it will never prepare a newer player for PVP battle.  Personally, if I am doing a NPC battle, its to get some sort of quick reward (Ship XP/loot) and I don't want to expend a lot of effort doing it.  I'm annoyed if I have to use reps.

The problem is not every ones skill level is the same. I can be very honest in saying I remember back when I was pirates and we where doing hostility saying, "These AI are fighting harder than the US does."  Some of the US players have been playing years and they still suck  or below average but they enjoy the game so keep playing.  These same players struggle against AI but they constantly get slaughtered going against skilled players in PvP, but they keep coming back to play.   Many would just give up with AI like it is right now.

Though I didn't notice this problem in shallows for some reason. I could easly get up next to a shallow ship or two and out DPS and sink them.  It seems the problem gets into the larger caliber ships than the smaller.

5 minutes ago, Thonys said:

"Seal-clubbing fifth rates with a second rate is not a good example and I specifically mentioned it in the OP. "" 

     well, actually it is .....

 

the problem is : you can be destroyed.

you have to figure out what you can take: >>  what you can handle to survive,>>  and what not.

remember every battle is not a battle to the death (there is no circle remember)

sometimes you need to escape on the right moment.

use your head>>  adjust >>> and be smart.>>  get the hell out of there if it is going out of control, the first rule is to save your crew and ship.(you need it for the next battle :)) )

 

Try that with a 5th rate and I bet you won't last very long unless you string them out the whole battle and try to fight them one by one.  When we where getting the 25 kills on testbed i would just take the victory out with all 12's and that bow/stern mod and hit 5-6th rate fleets of 10-15 size.   Did it with all 5 chars without any issues, only repaired once.  Again we are talking about skilled players not the average player.   I seen normal players get sunk since patch doing hostility getting out DPS by an AI ship they went broad side broad side with in LO/WO ships.  

[Barbancourt]

10 hours ago, Sento de Benimaclet said:

If you are looking for human behavior or logic, fight against humans, do not look for it in NPC's.

There's absolutely no reason why the NPCs can't do all the things I listed and more.  NPC are the primary content on both servers, and the only way to generate XP, but as opponents they suck eggs because they're set up wrong.  

 

[Barbancourt]

1 hour ago, Thonys said:

 

the problem is : you can be destroyed.

If you're doing it right, and the game is balanced right, then that is the whole point of having a battle.

 

[Carlos_Condell]

i also noticed the NPC stern camp you and also they bowtank, they didn't split up and had laser guided guns, wich melt your ship even at 500mt... they penetrate waaaay too much sometimes i get damaged in both sides going side by side with a ship... also they made quite a lot of damage in the structure (penetration) doing rakes from far away... yeah! combat sailing skills for NPC, very nice!! love it, but HIGH PEN, DAMAGE AND HEALTH i hated... recently i lose a rat agains 8 5th rates, i sink 4 of the 5 essex, and 1 surp and 2 cerverous but, even the cerv with 9pd guns do a lot of damage on my rat with 78thikness at 400mt even in angle!! 
they sink my by rake shots when i was repairing... they hit a window and you lose half structure is NUTS!! 

take a look of the image... 4th rate vs all of those... i had to rep 2 times, double ball do almost nothing beside a reload shock. 
( is a shame losing against an AI but they are way too overbuffed this time, easier way is boarding, they are still dumb) 

Edited May 16, 2019 by Carlos_Condell

[Zlatkowar]

11 hours ago, Thonys said:

"Seal-clubbing fifth rates with a second rate is not a good example and I specifically mentioned it in the OP. "" 

     well, actually it is .....

How? What is it you were trying to prove with your cute Christian VS 5th rates example?

I think you have a severe case of tunnel vision, please be safe, don't try to overthink or you might collapse.

 

[Thonys]

22 minutes ago, Zlatkowar said:

How? What is it you were trying to prove with your cute Christian VS 5th rates example?

I think you have a severe case of tunnel vision, please be safe, don't try to overthink or you might collapse.

 

what i am trying to say is,  you can not attack everything.

the one who thinks he can attack anything and walk away from it ,...well that's the one with tunnel vision.

 

and why do you think i have illnesses, don't go there my friend.

besides that, i am not against the OP or anything i only say in this circumstance " try to adapt" on the situation... 

 

ps. I can give you a 7 rate  example too,... if you want :))

[Angus MacDuff]

5 hours ago, Carlos_Condell said:

i also noticed the NPC stern camp you and also they bowtank, they didn't split up and had laser guided guns, wich melt your ship even at 500mt... they penetrate waaaay too much sometimes i get damaged in both sides going side by side with a ship... also they made quite a lot of damage in the structure (penetration) doing rakes from far away... yeah! combat sailing skills for NPC, very nice!! love it, but HIGH PEN, DAMAGE AND HEALTH i hated... recently i lose a rat agains 8 5th rates, i sink 4 of the 5 essex, and 1 surp and 2 cerverous but, even the cerv with 9pd guns do a lot of damage on my rat with 78thikness at 400mt even in angle!! 
they sink my by rake shots when i was repairing... they hit a window and you lose half structure is NUTS!! 

take a look of the image... 4th rate vs all of those... i had to rep 2 times, double ball do almost nothing beside a reload shock. 
( is a shame losing against an AI but they are way too overbuffed this time, easier way is boarding, they are still dumb) 

I don't have a problem with this.  A 4th rate should not be able to survive against 8 5th rates. 

[Thonys]

27 minutes ago, Angus MacDuff said:

I don't have a problem with this.  A 4th rate should not be able to survive against 8 5th rates. 

yes i think so to (perhaps 2 ships more destroyed would give a good result in this scenario)

but the biggest concern what everybody has i think is  the huge impact and penetration, when angled, no matter how you angle it still penetrates very deep in the ship and make a lot of damage ( laser accuracy, and  no bounce effect [especially in the rear] )

for the enmemy, you are just a flat target it seems

Edited May 16, 2019 by Thonys

[toblerone]

I made a test this week. 

My white/white reload and hp hardcapped santisima - equipped with meds, poods and carros - just exchanging boardsides at close distance in parallel navigation with a NPC 3 slot caguarian/crew santisima.

The outcome was that - in a pure HP and DPS fight, no turn, no bounce, no repair - my uber buffed ship barely won.

I think some NPC's stats are actually a bit over the top now.

Edited May 16, 2019 by toblerone

[Teutonic]

42 minutes ago, toblerone said:

I made a test this week. 

My white/white reload and hp hardcapped santisima - equipped with meds, poods and carros - just exchanging boardsides at close distance in parallel navigation with a NPC 3 slot caguarian/crew santisima.

The outcome was that - in a pure HP and DPS fight, no turn, no bounce, no repair - my uber buffed ship barely won.

I think some NPC's stats are actually a bit over the top now.

I prefer the better sailing but worse gunnery NPCs we had before...

But that being said, the NPCs now have insane gunnery bonuses (reload mainly) but their Sailing has made it easier to stern rake or outmanuever them. OVerall I feel the new NPCs are trying to "help" players be better sailors - but it's not effectively doing it 'correctly.' I honestly believe no one should be just exchanging broadsides and sailing in a straight line. I also would say that the better the player in experience, fighting, and sailing, the less devastating a stern rake becomes since they know how to fight against the possible consequences it creates - but to the NPCs a stern rake will greatly help you in fighting them.

the Devs have stated they will improve the real rewards from NPC ships in battle and I think a lot of players agree that currently it's not worth fighting NPCs due to the low rewards in their current suped up gunnery bonuses. Renewed feedback after the reward changes should be in order as folks may then find it worth fighting them more often.

[Ligatorswe]

Make normal NPCs easier to kill. Keep some NPCs as they are. Introduce even harder NPCs (elite), but few of them.

 

[Sir Texas Sir]

14 hours ago, Ligatorswe said:

Make normal NPCs easier to kill. Keep some NPCs as they are. Introduce even harder NPCs (elite), but few of them.

I could see like the lead ship in fleets might be built better than the other ships, which should be balanced off oak/oak or oak/crew space.   The lead ship might be built a bit tougher than the others, but keep the main balance mid tier.  Not every one is going to be running around in LO/WO or WO/WO ships.

[Farrago]

And it would be nice to see mixed rate AI fleets again. It's good training for a clan or group. 

[James Thomson]

Im just saying that this game was made to be realistic. If im fighting a ship equal to mine that is made from soft wood (fir/fir) in my hardwood (wo/wo) ship, fighting only broadside to broadside whit same damage sets. Outcome should still be me winning.

This is how it works in PvP, why should PvE be harder than PvP statistically wise? Fixing stupid NPCs not using tactics by buffing the intefieor ships to magic ships in my opinion is frustrating and drives me off from doing any PvE at all. I have also heard this from the newcomers alot. Ship combat against NPCs is the first thing new players do. And its already at point where only available option is shooting down masts and stern camping, BOORING AS HELL!

I repeat my self, do not fix AIs bad tactis by buffing them. Give them repairs, give them different wood type ships and make them perform acordingly the ship type. Tanky ship will always fight so it tries cover its wounded side and bow tank, fast and agile AI like now all of them will try shoot both of its sides at you to maximise the DPS.

It will also bring the players new challange to identify the ship type they are fighting against. If enemy bounces alot or whitstands more damage than usually you would need to plan your tactic to fight the AI acordingly.

Also for PvE server this would drive the players to decide if they really want to capture or sink the ship, if someone is looknig for strong ship they see its bouncing their balls alot they will want to cap it.

Current AI is already a good Elite AI in my opinion, no need to make them harder whit buffs.

Edited May 18, 2019 by James Thomson

[van der Clam]

8 hours ago, Sir Texas Sir said:

I could see like the lead ship in fleets might be built better than the other ships, which should be balanced off oak/oak or oak/crew space.   The lead ship might be built a bit tougher than the others, but keep the main balance mid tier.  Not every one is going to be running around in LO/WO or WO/WO ships.

Yes, let maybe the fleet have an Admiral or two with elite ships, with the best loot. 

5 hours ago, Farrago said:

And it would be nice to see mixed rate AI fleets again. It's good training for a clan or group. 

Yes plz, upvote, multi-like, <3, etc.

The thing about NPC that pisses me off more than anything is their ridiculous pen and the most ridiculous angles COMBINED with their ridiculous reload. If they had only one of these buffs, it would be more manageable. Something else that is bothersome is how much crew we always lose from broadsides while having near full armor. I thought crew shouldn't drop until side armor is weakened, but I seem to lose a lot of crew no matter the wood build. These things together...is just bothersome. I don't even like attacking fleets any more unless I'm 2 rates above. But that's mainly because we Dutch always have to fear Ruskis, Brits, or rats, or all 3 joining the enemy side just before battle closes. Then we're already damaged with barely any repair left so we get fekt. 

[Carlos_Condell]

On 5/16/2019 at 6:10 AM, Angus MacDuff said:

I don't have a problem with this.  A 4th rate should not be able to survive against 8 5th rates. 

true but the thing is... 6pd pen and damage waaaaaaay too much a 4th rate angeled even at 400mt that's is not OK

 

[Rune]

one of my clan mates doing group mission solo against 2 first rates and 3 rate in a bellona, npc should be buffed more they are do easy and predictable or at lest group mission should be harder to force people to work together, right now they are a joke if you know what your doing   

[Ahoy H.R. Matey]

8 hours ago, Rune said:

one of my clan mates doing group mission solo against 2 first rates and 3 rate in a bellona, npc should be buffed more they are do easy and predictable or at lest group mission should be harder to force people to work together, right now they are a joke if you know what your doing   

No. You want Dark Souls, go play Dark Souls. Not that it matters anymore at this point because instead of nerfing the NPCs, devs added MORE OVERBUFFED NPCs. Shame. PvE population will suffer for it. Not a good thing when release is on the horizon, unless they are trying to drive people to the PvP server.

[Rune]

1 hour ago, Ahoy H.R. Matey said:

No. You want Dark Souls, go play Dark Souls. Not that it matters anymore at this point because instead of nerfing the NPCs, devs added MORE OVERBUFFED NPCs. Shame. PvE population will suffer for it. Not a good thing when release is on the horizon, unless they are trying to drive people to the PvP server.

look at the video, every one can do it all you need to know is how to angle your ship from incoming fire. ofc if you yolo and hope for best you will die

group mission should be hard and force people to work together, the larger group mission are fine i believe because there are to many enemy's to kill them all before the battle ends but the smaller one are still to easy when one guys can solo them  

[van der Clam]

11 hours ago, Rune said:

one of my clan mates doing group mission solo against 2 first rates and 3 rate in a bellona, npc should be buffed more they are do easy and predictable or at lest group mission should be harder to force people to work together, right now they are a joke if you know what your doing   

Ya um....I lasted 12 minutes into that video and there is no way in hell any NPC (that I have faced or anyone else in the Dutch nation) misses full broadsides 3 to 4 times in a row just by sailing away from them in the exact same manner. Granted, we Dutch don't have the ship bonuses that the ruskis do, but once the Santi missed every shot and then the Vic missed his other broadside, I was done. Not worth watching because it simply does not happen like that for anyone I've seen. Not only that, I seem to lose 50+ crew anytime a single cannon hits my stern. That was not skill, nor knowing how NPC mechanics work to make them miss, that was simply fake NPC. heh

[Rune]

36 minutes ago, van der Decken said:

Ya um....I lasted 12 minutes into that video and there is no way in hell any NPC (that I have faced or anyone else in the Dutch nation) misses full broadsides 3 to 4 times in a row just by sailing away from them in the exact same manner. Granted, we Dutch don't have the ship bonuses that the ruskis do, but once the Santi missed every shot and then the Vic missed his other broadside, I was done. Not worth watching because it simply does not happen like that for anyone I've seen. Not only that, I seem to lose 50+ crew anytime a single cannon hits my stern. That was not skill, nor knowing how NPC mechanics work to make them miss, that was simply fake NPC. heh

how can it be fake npc ? have you tried fighting ai a long range, i suspect they don't know that they need to lead there shots or that because the ai is behind and its trying to hit the stern instead of side. all i know is that they miss a lot when your at long range and they are behind you, and stern rakes do more crew damage if the cannon ball can travel up the full length of the ship 

anyway you can call bullshit all you want there is video prof, if you don't believe your own eyes there is not much i can do.

but your right that its not skill because its easy to do and every one can do it so stop saying the ai being to hard when you can see how easy it is to kill them    

[James Thomson]

13 hours ago, Rune said:

one of my clan mates doing group mission solo against 2 first rates and 3 rate in a bellona, npc should be buffed more they are do easy and predictable or at lest group mission should be harder to force people to work together, right now they are a joke if you know what your doing   

Do try the same with 5th rate mid tier frigates. I actually think problems are not so bad on lineships they are so much more tankiers. There might be something whit the penetration mechanics. 

 

Edit: Ah he is using the AI kiting...

Edited May 24, 2019 by James Thomson

[Rune]

Just now, James Thomson said:

Do try the same with 5th rate mid tier frigates. I actually think problems are not so bad on lineships they are so much more tankiers. There might be something whit the penetration mechanics. 

you will need a endymion to do it because of the 24 pd, im not sure 18 pd can penetrate a first rate at long range but its might be possible     

[James Thomson]

36 minutes ago, Rune said:

you will need a endymion to do it because of the 24 pd, im not sure 18 pd can penetrate a first rate at long range but its might be possible     

You must think this from the newcomers end. They dont have endys, and not all want sail them. And just try to fight regular own tier ships. 

Im at work so can't watch the video well, but i can already see that player is using the kiting bug.

NPC is known to have hard time to calculate trajectory to full speed ship at range so it will miss 95% of shots to the stern. 

Using this is in my opinion is not really the way it should work. But yeah this way NPC is quite easy to kill... But super booring too. 

This is also much easier on lineship with hit alot health, it wall be much harder on essex example against another same weight ship. 

Edited May 24, 2019 by James Thomson
Typos made on phone