RVR (port battles and territory control) feedback

[Slim McSauce]

32 minutes ago, staun said:

As there always will be new players, so rather often I guess. But do woundre how ppl will feel about start as midshipman, maybe every 2 month.

Imagine if we had everyone start new, race to get resources and set up ports on the map for total conquer scenario where the aim was to cut off and take territories from your enemy, Instead of Hostilities we would take flags, as a fleet into other nations port to start immediate pb. Being the rules you can only take front line ports that border directly to your enemy on the same landmass or string of landmass, and that to instigate a deep territory grab you have to pull flags using war supplies the amount depending on calculated distance from the port the flag is pulled from and aimed to attack. For this there should be an announcement so there's a chance for the other side to properly prepare. But for front line ports, this is where the action will be as each port will flip back on forth many times a week perhaps which means constant battles in these areas which creates a well defined pvp zone. I really didn't mean to get that far, basically a Naval Action Conquest Arena not so much a traditional hack and slash MMO

Edited December 11, 2018 by Slim McSauce

[Crimson Sunrise]

16 hours ago, Hellmuth von Mücke said:

I do not think it makes sense to reduce the maintenance costs for ports and timers, because the costs are already no longer a real problem. Before the change, many port owners had a problem to maintenance their ports. I know clans who were permanently in the minus for maintenance. If you lower the maintenance costs even further, these costs are not even worth it to take some money out of the game.

 

Complete agreement...

-Add feature allowing lockdown of ports by clans (giving access to port resources only to the clan who owns the port) + maybe adding docking fees.

 (A white list for people who can trade in the harbor would be desirable)

If the DEVS ever have the time and interest to rework the pirate faction, I would suggest that the pirate faction is the only nation exempt from this rule. Although they can not set contracts, but they can not be completely excluded from trading. (Pirates as the classic smugglers!)

one major flaw with locking down ports clans own is the allow list will have to include those that arent in a clan as well or those in clans with 1 or more member the small clans otherwise it becomes a problem u would have to add in a naming system to block specific people from trading in that port but then a name change each month would bypass that.

[Hethwill]

Road to Port Battle

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- Ports open all the time, no timers. Possibility for multiple attacks per day to the same port. ( flag planted, battle set for next day )

- Intervals of 180 minutes between start of battles.

- Conquest Flag - Crafted Item with miscellaneous items mostly used to supply invasion forces ( and army pay )

- Global Announcement of Flag being Crafted by Nation/Clan against Nation/Clan ( no details of where and to where )

- Mandatory creation of Port Battle Group for Port Battle in the port where Flag is crafted. That is the Port Battle Group and the ships that will be able to enter the PB, no one else.

- Global Announcement of Invasion Fleet set sail from unknown location to unknown location ( Invasion Fleet = Port Battle Group )

- timer limit for flag (?) maybe

- false flags is possible ( flags not planted), but will result in rank demotion for all members of the Clan creating the flag.

- Only Commodore and above Ranks can craft flags. All ranks above Master&Commander included can be part of Port Battle Group. 

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Port Battle 

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Current system seems to be the best yet but can be improved.

Capture circle and leave it deserted should yield no points. Capture and Hold should give points.

3 circles means a Vanguard, a Center and a Rear at its very basic.

Applies to both defender and attacker. 

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Post Port Battle

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Conquerors and Defenders of a new port will receive Admiralty Rewards according to BR of port.

- Gold, Silver, and Normal - 

Additional Rewards:

- conqueror port battle captains may sack the market of items leftover by enemies - ships, resources, etc - up to the limit of 1 item / 1 stack per captain.

No more Port ownership payments.

No more Open to All.

Open to clan -or- Open to nation - this is in regard of placing contracts only. Building and outposts work normally, entire nation has access.

Tax system 10%, can never be reduced. Those fund will go to "europe". 

Tax system can be augmented up to 50%. Excess over 10% will be added to Clan treasure.

 

 

 

[Slim McSauce]

Just now, Hethwill the Red Duke said:

Road to Port Battle

------

- Ports open all the time, no timers. Possibility for multiple attacks per day to the same port. ( flag planted, battle set for next day )

- Intervals of 180 minutes between start of battles.

- Conquest Flag - Crafted Item with miscellaneous items mostly used to supply invasion forces ( and army pay )

- Global Announcement of Flag being Crafted by Nation/Clan against Nation/Clan

- Mandatory creation of Port Battle Group for Port Battle in the port where Flag is crafted. That is the Port Battle Group and the ships that will be able to enter the PB, no one else.

- Global Announcement of Invasion Fleet set sail from unknown location to unknown location ( Invasion Fleet = Port Battle Group )

- false flags is possible, but will result in rank demotion for all members of the Clan creating the flag.

- Only Commodore and above Ranks can craft flags. All ranks above Master&Commander included can be part of Port Battle Group. 

------

Port Battle 

------

Current system seems to be the best yet but can be improved.

Capture circle and leave it deserted should yield no points. Capture and Hold should give points.

3 circles means a Vanguard, a Center and a Rear at its very basic.

Applies to both defender and attacker. 

-------

Post Port Battle

------

Conquerors and Defenders of a new port will receive Admiralty Rewards according to BR of port.

- Gold, Silver, and Normal - 

No more Port ownership payments.

No more Open to All.

Open to clan -or- Open to nation - this is in regard of placing contracts only. Building and outposts work normally, entire nation has access.

Tax system 10%, can never be reduced. Those fund will go to "europe". 

Tax system can be augmented up to 50%. Excess over 10% will be added to Clan treasure.

We can't say this is the best thing now, but it sounds pretty good doesn't it?

[Hethwill]

5 minutes ago, rediii said:

When is a fakeflag a fakeflag? If I decide to flip a PB alone is it a fakeflag if only I enter?

Fakeflags and demotion. Why shouldnt i create my own fakeflag clan?

Flag is announced and must be crafted ( list of all resources needed for a invasion fleet, not simple buy flag ). If not crafted then it is false. When it is ready the Invasion Fleet is announced.

You can create your own fakeflag clan and have all the fun you want with it. Think you will enjoy your fakeflag clan as a midshipman after so many demotions.

Disconnects is an issue that both attacker and defender will have to contend with. Same with getting screened, intercepted, killed in the open sea, etc.

Why go back to flags... no idea. Devs asked for RvR proposals and this is mine. Non stop war for those that want it. 

 

[RKY]

a few things:

- hostility grinding is boring. A new system must be tested or there should be multiple ways to get a pb set (maybe flag maybe economic grind or something else).

- no reward beside victory marks, which are useless. chest are a thing, and it is nice, but doubloons are better as it would finance new SOLs helping to rebuild fleet and finance new invasions.

- capturing a port from an enemy clan/nation does not really have an economic impact. gaining a port should grant a bonus to revenue to the clan while loosing clan should get a negative income for a few days (like 3).

- circle battle for points are ok, but some new kind of new battle type would be nice. Maybe a only one circle to capture (defend or loose pb) or annihilation battle (like patrol zone, except when u leave circle, you don't die but are kicked out of battle, side with most br or ship killed win battle).

- timers are an issue, it limits pb possibilities. maybe increase cost by 10

- screening is an issue, it is too easy to screen a fleet at the moment. port battle fleet should be safe to enter pb. they made the effort to grind hostility.

- frigate only port battle be fun or 4th rate max

- arrange OW fight between clans / fleet for a ladder (take mission and go to a place at x time, taken a day a prior), reward is hostility point you can use on a port to avoid grinding it but get instant pb

[Hethwill]

Just now, Intrepido said:

The worst "road to port battle" proposals I have read in a while.

For sure. Waiting for you own proposals. I like wargames with logistics and commitment to the fight.

 

[admin]

2 hours ago, Ellias said:

 

1. Bring back flags. Flags can be bought only from National capitals. They will initiate port patrol zone event if successfully reached their target port. Game 1: we will have our flag catch and protect game. Flags can be made very expensive without any cooldown. PB timers still applies.

we can't bring flags back as we cannot solve the abuse problems when someone can purchase the flag for the thing you want and keep it hidden in port (like it was before). 

[Sir Texas Sir]

5 hours ago, Coraline Vodka said:

the history of this game has been about big clans pushing RVR if you deny this youre just in denial

I know a lot of the old pre-wipe BLACK pvp2 guys that stopped playing mainly cause there wouldn’t be any more or as many 25 vs 25 1st rate port battles.  It was good to have some ports with low BR PB but they had to many in my view with very little BR that limited who got to play and that left out a lot of players stuck just screening cause you wanted your best in the Lowe BR port.

[Hethwill]

4 minutes ago, admin said:

we can't bring flags back as we cannot solve the abuse problems when someone can purchase the flag for the thing you want and keep it hidden in port (like it was before). 

Al'right, that makes it more simple. Back to the drawing board.

[Thonys]

on the trade side:

-an overview for your stuff

-more contracts to sell stuff in harbors would be great to help captains to do business ( max15 contracts in a single port for example )

-Harbor money when entering a port, only for other clans, (where  port clan members don't have to pay for it )[adjustible by clans]

-more control of the port  by clans officers

-better distribution of the trade /building/upgrade/farm/woods goods  over the map, what can be made by clans (some nations have it all and only others have nothing)

-trade-sailing must make the money and not the building/farms output.

captains have warehouses everywhere and that is odd... when entering a port (any) they get a virtual warehouse i believe they have to buy a warehouse and a port slot,(to do business) and therefore we need more port slots 

 

the institute Admiralty

the admiralty is a government structure and needs to have a more important role

also, i believe that doubloons can only be achieved by selling reals to the Admiralty who   convert them to permits and doubloons 

where you also can buy also special ships,/ special upgrades /books (the admiralty needs to have more power ).

-you can buy and trade reals and doubloons in every port  by a trade rate set up by clans.(own currency)

 

also, clans need s to have more control of the things that happen in a port and have more control and overview who can enter and who can not.   and what happens during the sleeping hours let's

say what about a closed harbor during the night of the clan...you can enter the port during the night but can not do business when the clan sleeps. (clans needs to have more jurisdiction over a port)

Dubloons:

for me what issue at the moment is that i can board and sink every ship, but do not get the balloons from it, haven't got the doubloons from ships for weeks and from what i see around me the have the doubloons like if it is raining on them.

only missions are for me the thing to get the doubloons (am i forced to do only weekly missions? now ) [it sucks i have to wait 6 days]

 

i can be very simple about hostility 

it takes to much effort for small clans to do an aggressive action against other  small ports 

atm that is only a matter for the biggest clans and that is strange  because pirates, for example, came with 5 ships to concur a small island

the grind is just to much for small clans to even get a small island  it is to much  time  duration (to consuming the grind )

if a small clan needs to do hostility, half of the hostility members have to: eat, shower or have to go to soccer sport, after 2.30 hrs so they are not even finishing the hostility activity .

it has become inaccessible. (it has a time issue)

for example speeding up rvr:

if a small island is attacked with 5 people it should only take 5 enemy ships to the job, and a  medium port takes 2 spawns of 5 ships, a big harbor does do 3 x 5 ships...

now a small clan can do an attack as well and bigger clans can do the bigger ports ...( a easier access for small clans is in that way established and it can vary)

small ports factor x 3(1 enemy ship count for 3 ships)

medium ports factor x 2

big ports factor x 1

it is now factor 1 for all ports

Edited December 11, 2018 by Thonys

[Hethwill]

Okay.

How to start a PB then ? That's the kickoff point.

[RKY]

regional refits for ship crafting be nice as well.

maybe craft SOLs only in regionnal capitals.

Edited December 11, 2018 by RKY

[staun]

57 minutes ago, Slim McSauce said:

Imagine if we had everyone start new, race to get resources and set up ports on the map for total conquer scenario where the aim was to cut off and take territories from your enemy, Instead of Hostilities we would take flags, as a fleet into other nations port to start immediate pb. Being the rules you can only take front line ports that border directly to your enemy on the same landmass or string of landmass, and that to instigate a deep territory grab you have to pull flags using war supplies the amount depending on calculated distance from the port the flag is pulled from and aimed to attack. For this there should be an announcement so there's a chance for the other side to properly prepare. But for front line ports, this is where the action will be as each port will flip back on forth many times a week perhaps which means constant battles in these areas which creates a well defined pvp zone. I really didn't mean to get that far, basically a Naval Action Conquest Arena not so much a traditional hack and slash MMO

Honnestly I don’t care if ports are flipped one way ore the other. From what I have seen in this game it will matter less.  Yes it will maybe be easier for those that attack. But Gb had no problem to flip all those ports back from Spain. What matter is if you can and will get a fight. I doubt it will give more contested PB.

But I could be wrong and you could be right. It sounds to me that everybody things if PB just is easy to set up, then all will be fine. I belive there need much more. Easy pb will to me only lead to very few contested PB, unless they are set for high priority ports and against a egual enemy. Pirates can flip all the US port they want, how many of them do you think will be contested and how many do you think the US will try to flip back in a week?

[staun]

37 minutes ago, Hethwill the Red Duke said:

Okay.

How to start a PB then ? That's the kickoff point.

Well thats easy enough. Ppl think easy pb will give more RvR. So lets make it easy But also so it still have a price to make a pb. Give them more ways to do it.

- We can do as now.

- Buy a pb. 24 hours delay. Cost 100k douolons. Then you have a pb 24 h later. And to counter more Pb’s bought at the same time. Next cost lets say 300 k dbl and so on. There have to be atleast 48 h between bought Pb’s, if they have to be at the cheap orice and if against a nation that allready have a pb. It have to be a window from the other pb of 2 hours.It should maybe even be a tribunal not to try to show up to bought Pb’s. Maybe cost a rank. So if the offended party raise a tribunal for stay away from at bought pb. The attacker have to prove that they had the intent, out because if Screning it wasimpossible.

Maybe @admin also could build in a pb setup calculation, would be a nice thing to have.

Edited December 11, 2018 by staun

[Sir Texas Sir]

34 minutes ago, admin said:

we can't bring flags back as we cannot solve the abuse problems when someone can purchase the flag for the thing you want and keep it hidden in port (like it was before). 

Could always make them clan based not nation.  You can have 5 clans pull the same flag but it’s who ever gets it there first gets the PB.  If you pull false flag you can’t pull anouther for a few days. 

[staun]

6 minutes ago, rediii said:

just sum up the battlegroup BR by the ships they selected and display it at the battlegroup window. No calculation needed

Now we use a excel shed, where ppl also can sign up in. Make it easier when ppl are online at different times. But that also make us have to change the BR for ships when they change. Would be a nice an easy feature if it was in game.

Btw if I sum up, dosen’t that mean I do a calculation? Well guess my understanding of english seams to have some big gaps.

Edited December 11, 2018 by staun

[Guest]

Update BR more often so the same meta doesent stay for months.

 

Can be fixed by making 3rd rates cheaper. I believe the price of a third rate should be approx 1/20th of a 1st rate, and a 2nd rate should be 1/5th of a 1st rate. Could balance it by decreasing thickness on 3rd and 2nd rates and adjust abit on the thickness on 1st rates

Edited December 11, 2018 by Guest

[Hethwill]

14 minutes ago, Wyy said:

I believe the price of a third rate should be approx 1/20th of a 1st rate

Kent (74)

Build & Fitting £43391.11.4d 

Victory (100)

Build £57748.1.7d + Fitting £13296.0.0d

 

1/20th ?

[Archaos]

For hostility I think a good solution would be to differentiate between PvP and PvE hostility. PvP hostility should not decay or reset and can only be reduced by counter PvP. This way you could slowly build up hostility over a few days with just normal PvP kills in an area, it makes the area sort of a hot zone that will eventually get to a point where it is easy to flip. PvE hostility can remain the same and reset to zero on maintenance.

[Guest]

@Hethwill the Red Duke

from 1755-1785 the RN crafted and made for service

90               74's and +-40 64's

18               90 Gun 2nd rates

5                  100+ Gun 1st rates.

either make the ship itself the difference or the crew cost more.

If you go from 1785-1820 there are even more third rates, and those first rates in 1820 are more of the steam engine 1st rates with different cannons

Edited December 11, 2018 by Guest

[Hethwill]

Yep, that's correct.

But a 3rd rate is not 1/20th of the cost of a 1st rate.

The navy board just decided to invest treasury another way ( strategic option and to contain costs - a small repair was listed as £12,000 or something around that ).

Same as you can do in your clan. Invest less in 1st rates and more in 3rd rates.

[Guest]

2 minutes ago, Hethwill the Red Duke said:

Yep, that's correct.

But a 3rd rate is not 1/20th of the cost of a 1st rate.

The navy board just decided to invest treasury another way ( strategic option and to contain costs - a small repair was listed as £12,000 or something around that ).

Same as you can do in your clan. Invest less in 1st rates and more in 3rd rates.

but then there has to be a reason to bring a 3rd rate to a pb rather than a ironclad l'ocean, or even a lo/wo bucentaure

[Archaos]

Regarding increasing RvR the solution is simple, make ports more attractive to own, at the moment they are like a mill stone weighing you down for little reward.

Give additional bonus for the number of ports a clan owns.

Bring back some form of regional bonus if a nation owns all the ports of a region.

More rewards for participating in a port battle, because as it currently stands you can participate and capture a port early in the week, but if the port is lost before the following Mondays maintenance you get nothing.

Give clans more control of how a port develops as was suggested earlier in this thread.

 

[Medniy Sandal]

In my opinion, the most effective system of port fights was in potbs. The group of the ships under the city came and began blockade. If defenders didn't come to recapture the port, then action points for port fight grow. It isn't necessary to beat in npc missions. Tension around port begins to drip from group of N-of number of players in fighting group. Additional points give drowning of npc of the fleet and merchant marine fleets in this region. Fights in the place of tension = to the current option of PVP of events (as possible option). It turns out that daily PVP of an event can be organized in different places by players.
Flags for port fights it is game "crutches". There were many cases when the armada of the ships going for occupation of the city was stopped murder of the ship with a flag. Well nonsense...
What to do with an award for occupation of the city? 
1. To increase an award, to the players who are involved in port fight.
2. To give "other" awards which in a different way not to earn.
3. For deduction of the occupied port more N-days to give an additional award. And only after the expiration of this term the port completely passes under management of other country (disputable, but it is possible to work such option)
4. I like the idea that at deduction of several ports belonging to the regional capital the bonus in production of the ships is given. 
5. To make 2 options of port fights: capture and plunder. About it there were already many interesting offers, but the ideas "died somewhere at a forum"
6. Ports have to be useful, but not a burden at capture. One port can give unique trade goods, another wood, the third to generate free repair kits for clan. It is good if ports can be developed (but it is improbable now). Let's say if in San Juan the unique goods for trade were delivered, then quite perhaps the port would be interesting to "trade" clan. Either the port the giving bonus or unique tasks for PVE, would be perhaps interesting to a certain nation to "krabbbing". And occupation of such port would give a certain "protective" zone as is in the capital now (the truth not such cruel on protection).

(sorry google translate)