Patch 25: Open world user interface update.

[[TOXIC] LoneHunter]

19 minutes ago, admin said:

Hmmm. I do not see the hercules problem on this screen. That is frigate/light frigate versus line ship balance problem
Average unescorted Bellona will have troubles against ANY 2 5th rates in the current state of the game. And i think its a known issue but we are not sure it needs addressing. As it will drastically reduce variety.  

Problem:

number of cannons /surface

For example , you got a ship with a higher number of cannons/surface you will win a fight broadside by broadside like on that picture. ( just in this game )

 

"unescorted bellona"

So if I have some Ai´s escort this shouldn´t happen?

Edited August 9, 2018 by Nuka

[Bluetooth]

18 minutes ago, admin said:

Hmmm. I do not see the hercules problem on this screen. That is frigate/light frigate versus line ship balance problem
Average unescorted Bellona will have troubles against ANY 2 5th rates in the current state of the game. And i think its a known issue but we are not sure it needs addressing. As it will drastically reduce variety.  

It would be rare for SOL and to sail unescorted.

[admin]

6 minutes ago, Nuka said:

 

So if I have some Ai´s escort this shouldn´t happen?

why AI - majority of pvp/ conquest oriented clans will be happy to accept a 3rd rate captain in their fleets. 

[[TOXIC] LoneHunter]

 

"number of cannons /surface

For example , you got a ship with a higher number of cannons/surface you will win a fight broadside by broadside like on that picture. ( just in this game )"

could I get an anwser on that statement pls.

 

good winds

Nuka

 

Edited August 9, 2018 by Nuka

[Archaos]

29 minutes ago, Nuka said:

@Crow

yap the other 3 sunks.

@McKillen

Better question is , why is nobody doing something against these tacts?

Even so we could camp the sides with DD and kill him like a normal battle , cause the hitbox from the herc is really small.

The result remain the same, bellona would sink.

 

 

This is a perfect example of why the proposed change where if your main ship gets sunk you respawn in the OW in your fleet ship is a bad change for the game.

How is this person going to feel after losing his 3rd rate, knowing that he now has to face the same people again in his trader?

[admin]

1 hour ago, Archaos said:

This is a perfect example of why the proposed change where if your main ship gets sunk you respawn in the OW in your fleet ship is a bad change for the game.

How is this person going to feel after losing his 3rd rate, knowing that he now has to face the same people again in his trader?

I have completely opposite opinion.
Why would someone join the pvp server if he cannot accept losing ships as integral part of the experience (core experience)?

If you join the pvp server. Why would you send you ship away instead of keeping it to help in battle (indiaman has 28 guns) increasing your firepower to a level of the 1st rate 74 + 28 (people say ai is overpowered and is cheating when firing).

Auto assign on a fleet ship is not a proposed change - it's happening.
Players most affected by the fleet auto assign and safe teleport removal will be player killers. Many use fleet teleport for safe escape and we are closing this door. Majority of players will now have a chance to recover their ships + take player killers' tears spoils of war. 

+ Auto assign is also needed to solve the problem with temporary ship capture. You will be able to win more fights against imported ships because sometimes boarding and taking over can save lives and we are bringing this option for ALL vessels.

[staun]

23 minutes ago, Banished Privateer said:

L'Ocean vs 2 Hercs (very good PvP players)

One sank, other barely alive escaped. 

I had also L'Ocean vs 4 Hercs, 2 sank and could probably kill other 2 if not connection problems and going afk for 10 minutes.

Well, we will gladly give you another chance. You only managed to kill to of us because we got careless. Atleast thats oure opinion.

[Cecil Selous]

4 minutes ago, Wraith said:

I don't think any of us are seriously worried about the fleet auto-assign as a mechanic, it does fix a loophole that needs fixing. But I think there's something to be said for testing longer invisibility timers (and bumping turn rates during invisibility to match speed bump).

+1

And while you are just here @admin. Why do we never have the full invisibility timer? At least I don't. I believe it was introduced with 30 seconds (correct me if I am wrong and it changed). I asked this a lot but never got a good answer, besides that my loading times fuck around with it. Which I think shouldn't be the way it works. It should start when I see the OW and not before or when I am still in the loading screen.

And yes, better turn rates during invisibility would be awesome.

[[TOXIC] LoneHunter]

We should remind , that even a PvP server need its traders.

Open that door , means if you loose your battleship in a fight with your traders , youll be raped by the attackers again and again.

So the only thing youll receive is more players leaving this game

[Galt]

2 hours ago, admin said:

haha no
i have no sense in the game as you said - why should you fight a noob.. You will fight a pro, because if a pro loses then you are right, captured 5th rates have no chance, and action must be taken.

we will set up the duel room next week. Game is in early access - great time to test things. 

Be sure to record this, or hell let us know a time and I'll take the day off to watch. 

[Archaos]

25 minutes ago, admin said:

I have completely opposite opinion.
Why would someone join the pvp server if he cannot accept losing ships as integral part of the experience (core experience)?

If you join the pvp server. Why would you send you ship away instead of keeping it to help in battle (indiaman has 28 guns) increasing your firepower to a level of the 1st rate 74 + 28 (people say ai is overpowered and is cheating when firing).

Auto assign on a fleet ship is not a proposed change - it's happening.
Players most affected by the fleet auto assign and safe teleport removal will be player killers. Many use fleet teleport for safe escape and we are closing this door. Majority of players will now have a chance to recover their ships + take player killers' tears spoils of war. 

+ Auto assign is also needed to solve the problem with temporary ship capture. You will be able to win more fights against imported ships because sometimes boarding and taking over can save lives and we are bringing this option for ALL vessels.

This is not about acceptance of loss, its about how in order to close one loop hole you are creating issues for others. In the above example where it is 2 players against a player and AI trader, if the attackers want the trader they would have to send 1 ship after it leaving it 1v1 on the other player and thus giving the player more of a chance. In this case the attackers obviously felt they would get more reward by attacking the player together rather than splitting their forces and so the AI trader escapes. Now with the change that will be implemented they do not even have to make this decision, they just have to attack the player because they will get another go at the trader once it completes. I do not understand how anyone can see this as being right.

I understand the problems you are trying to address, but why can you make it apply only to ships captured in the battle. That way if people bring in rubbish fleet ships to enable escape of their main ship, the attackers know to target that as well. Remember also that once a vessel has escaped from an instance you do not get access to it to swap onto while still in the instance.

Edit: I would also like to point out in the example above that had the AI trader remained in battle to assist it would probably have done as much damage to the player as the attackers as the AI fires indiscriminately and doesn't care if it hits you as long as it is aiming for the target.

Edited August 9, 2018 by Archaos

[admin]

20 minutes ago, Archaos said:

This is not about acceptance of loss, its about how in order to close one loop hole you are creating issues for others.

This decision is thought through across multiple scenarios and significantly improves realistic resolution to combat and out of combat situations + closes the loophole.
The negatives that you dont like some players might considered positives. For example the ability to revenge gank the player killer if he is too arrogant and greedy. Or no slow fat rich indiamans escaping due to automatic teleport to port (without actually sailing on the OW). 
 

[[TOXIC] LoneHunter]

1 minute ago, admin said:

This decision is well thought through across multiple scenarios and actually bring more realistic resolution to combat and out of combat situations + closes the loophole.
The negatives that you dont like some players will considered positives. For example the ability to revenge gank the player killer if he is too arrogant and greedy.
 

So the Trader ships will remain silent and still in the OW while the main ship got killed in the battle ?

 

[Macjimm]

34 minutes ago, admin said:

I have completely opposite opinion.
Why would someone join the pvp server if he cannot accept losing ships as integral part of the experience (core experience)?

If you join the pvp server. Why would you send you ship away instead of keeping it to help in battle (indiaman has 28 guns) increasing your firepower to a level of the 1st rate 74 + 28 (people say ai is overpowered and is cheating when firing).

Auto assign on a fleet ship is not a proposed change - it's happening.
Players most affected by the fleet auto assign and safe teleport removal will be player killers. Many use fleet teleport for safe escape and we are closing this door. Majority of players will now have a chance to recover their ships + take player killers' tears spoils of war. 

+ Auto assign is also needed to solve the problem with temporary ship capture. You will be able to win more fights against imported ships because sometimes boarding and taking over can save lives and we are bringing this option for ALL vessels.

I'm having difficulty understanding what you are explaining here.  The safe teleport is when the fleet ships are teleported to the nearest deepwater port.

What is auto assign? 

Also, many traders accept loss on the PvP but don't want to have their fleet trader ships magically teleported back beside the solo raider.  Would it be possible to increase the separation between the raider and the fleet player, so we are not forced to spawn back beside them?  I think it would be okay to spawn somewhere in the open ocean away from the battle.  Safely teleporting to a random port may not be fair for raiders.

 

 

[Cecil Selous]

11 minutes ago, admin said:

This decision is well thought through across multiple scenarios and actually bring more realistic resolution to combat and out of combat situations + closes the loophole.
The negatives that you dont like some players will considered positives. For example the ability to revenge gank the player killer if he is too arrogant and greedy. Or no slow fat rich indiamans escaping due to automatic teleport to port (without actually sailing on the OW). 
 

But the problem is that he did get away in the instance. If two or more players decide to concentrate on only one big fat prize and let the others go then they have escaped. They put distance between them and their hunters. They managed to escape certain capture or death. Yet in the OW they are still in the same place even if the battle before lastet an hour where they already escaped afer 10 minutes. 

Maybe the safe teleport to a port is a bit too much and can be exploited but the there must be some other advantage to actually escaping. At least a bigger headstart would be nice. How? I don't know now, but not spawning in the same place for example would be a good start.

Edited August 9, 2018 by Cecil Selous

[[TOXIC] LoneHunter]

8 minutes ago, dark lord rediii said:

you are the trader after you left battle

Thats the point.

If someones Traders escaped from the battle they "could " move on the OW

--> otherwise he/she will be draged in again.

 

+how about creating an anti attack bubble around the player , which time is as long as  the point  where the first trader escaped to the point where the battle is over , the difference may be the time.

 

Edited August 9, 2018 by Nuka

[Hethwill]

I think we must look to the scenario not as solo, but as a group player. 2 captains are a team already. 1 captain is a victim.

The rearrangement of ability to teleport out closes all doors. No more alt'ing teleport or capture teleport. While innocent bystanders may not notice this, the big fish notice it very well.

You sail your indiamans. Other don't. They make more with less while you are in the line of fire. Now everyone is on the line of fire.

[admin]

19 minutes ago, Cecil Selous said:

But the problem is that he did get away in the instance. If two or more players decide to concentrate on only one big fat prize and let the others go then they have escaped. They put distance between them and their hunters. They managed to escape certain capture or death. Yet in the OW they are still in the same place even if the battle before lastet an hour where they already escaped afer 10 minutes. 

Maybe the safe teleport to a port is a bit too much and can be exploited but the there must be some other advantage to actually escaping. At least a bigger headstart would be nice. How? I don't know now, but not spawning in the same place for example would be a good start.

Yes. We might need to consider long term effects.
But we see that more combat ships are saved by escape command  than traders. And we want combat ships to combat.

[HachiRoku]

1 hour ago, admin said:

Why would someone join the pvp server if he cannot accept losing ships as integral part of the experience

I don't know, good question. Kind of ironic you add 2 dlc ships that are great at one thing. Running away and ganking. 

 

1 hour ago, Banished Privateer said:

L'Ocean vs 2 Hercs (very good PvP players)

One sank, other barely alive escaped. 

I had also L'Ocean vs 4 Hercs, 2 sank and could probably kill other 2 if not connection problems and going afk for 10 minutes.

You are "almost" dead. Is this not proof the ship is still a bit op. You know yourselves larger ships wouldn't last that long.

[admin]

6 hours ago, admin said:

hard stats are mentioned on the steam page.

the ship wind curve is not a hard stat; curves, times to raise sails, hp, thickness etc is not mentioned on the steam page. What is on steam page will never change. Unless its needed to improve overall gameplay. There was a clarification for speed. If speeds are rebalanced across all vessels, they might get rebalanced on DLC ships.

Clarification on this
we absolutely want to be sure everyone is on the same page about ship balancing and DLC vessels.

Imported ships stats
 

Hard stats are mentioned on the steam page.

The ship wind curve is not a hard stat; curves, times to raise sails, hp, thickness etc is not mentioned on the steam page. What is on steam page will never change. Unless its needed to improve overall gameplay. Guns, crews, historical calibers and other hard states WILL REMAIN on all vessels DLC and non DLC. 

There was a clarification for speed some time ago. If speeds are rebalanced across all vessels, they will get rebalanced on DLC ships as well. Speed is a hard stat but must be balanced together with other vessels. So if you plan to buy the dlc or bought the dlc you can expect this ship to remain a great performer it will always be one of the best ships in its class.

[HachiRoku]

1 minute ago, admin said:

 

its great you release the ships and gave them hard stats before you tested.

[admin]

9 minutes ago, HachiRoku said:

its great you release the ships and gave them hard stats before you tested.

Are you annoyed with something? You forget that it is a process and being a member of the community you probably know that its always a two way street.

Perhaps this little guide will help you understand what early access is https://store.steampowered.com/earlyaccessfaq/
The game is not released. According to steam rules Its an unfinished product that might never come out. 

The game will probably come out in three four months but your recent statements will definitely not help your comments to ever get heard again. 

[z4ys]

9 minutes ago, HachiRoku said:

its great you release the ships and gave them hard stats before you tested.

they were both tested before

Cant find any feedback from you here during testing phase:

 

Same here:

 

Edited August 9, 2018 by z4ys

[Hethwill]

Correct Wraith, just looking to the hard facts here, from what admin wrote and making up my own mind with this new reality, kind of thinking aloud. o7

[o Barão]

5 hours ago, admin said:

hard stats are mentioned on the steam page.

the ship wind curve is not a hard stat; curves, times to raise sails, hp, thickness etc is not mentioned on the steam page. What is on steam page will never change. 

Thank you. Now i know what i can suggest or not to balance this ships.

Hercs hard stats.

Class - 5th rate
Crew - 200
Max Speed - 13.26 knots
Turn Rate - 5.18
Guns - 40

1- Remove the shallow water sailing . It is killing the gameplay in the Bahamas. 

2- BR change to 150.

3- Delete the GOD sailing  profile in the Hercules.  Use something like the Endy.  God speed downwind , Average at 90 degrees. Or the opposite. God at 90 degrees. Average going downwind.

4- Nerf the gun caliber. ( In this case BR to something around 140 )

It is very important to remove  Hercs from shallow water to bring balance to the gameplay in the Bahamas.  Hercules doesn't have an enemy in shallow waters. Only a Hercules can face other Hercules.  Fix the BR to a suitable value to fix the issue with port battles. Change the sail profile so other players know a) they can run from the Hercules at some angle b) they can catch a Hercules sailing in thata angle.

Requin hard stats:

Class - 6th rate
Crew - 250
Max Speed - 13.39 knots
Turn Rate - 4.65
Guns - 30

1-  Can only fit 18pd carronades.

2- Nerf the ability to push the ships.

With the recent changes ,  rigged square ships should be able to run from Xebecs sailing downwind ( i hope ) except traders, which from a historical point of view is perfect , since it was the xebec role to be a trader hunter. However 250 crew with 32pd carronades it is too much for a 6th rate. This changes i propose tries to fix that issue.

 

Thank you.