admin Posted December 21, 2017 Author Share Posted December 21, 2017 4 minutes ago, Baron De Bourbon said: Basing game mechanics on one person's essays is to say least, silly. yeah it like basing physics on Newton's The Mathematical Principles of Natural Philosophy or most commonly known as Principa or 3 laws of physics 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vazco Posted December 21, 2017 Share Posted December 21, 2017 (edited) 12 minutes ago, admin said: Prussia/Commonwealth can dominate other nations if it they do 2 things 1) unite the national clans 2) practice and get better tactically and strategically There will be no snowball effect as a lot of port battles has small BR limits and intercept fleets are easily avoided. There will be no decrease in PVP as players who don't pvp won't pvp anyway. Players who pvp will actually have more pvp as they cannot get advanced ships without conquest. You answered to 1'st point - snowball effect. My answer is below: It's not even about PB's, but about hostility generation. You can't efficiently generate a hostility with 2'nd rates against a nation that can field a full 1st rate fleet. We can't train unless we can field an even fleet to enemy's fleet. A single 1st rate in a PB is a deadly force. I tell this from experience, as a battle commander. It's already hard to train an untrained group to defeat a better experienced enemy. Add to this their advantage in ships, and it's next to impossible. I think three points are still unanswered. They were not raised by me, but other people. I just gathered them. Main doubts for new system that I can read are: no option for small nations whatsoever to get access to 1st rates and thus large part of the content (eg. epic events) decreased PvP due to harder access to ships no conversion of Combat Marks to Labour Contracts makes crafting ships and supporting clan economy harder Edited December 21, 2017 by vazco Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sella Posted December 21, 2017 Share Posted December 21, 2017 (edited) 31 minutes ago, admin said: if asking questions is a word fight for you we don't know how conversation is possible. But we will try again. If Russia attracted players why did not prussia? Is it national leaders responsibility? or a game responsibility? Why Rovers and LIONS left prussia? @z4ys @Sella22? Why russia gained players ?@Anolytic thoughts? I don't think it was really the game's problem with the failure of Prussia. Prussia being Prussia was natural to attract a lot of German speaking players. It didn't seem to be the same case with the other nations though. Unfortunately a lot of the completely new players that joined ignored the "impossible difficulty" message and just joined for the flag. Some other players like LIONS which are mainly German speakers if i recall correctly, jumped from the Dutch just for the flag. In reality they had the same policy with the Dutch since they were the biggest clan in the nation which technically meant that they define the course of action of the Prussian nation as well. Unfortunately the majority of all of the players that joined either couldn't or refused to speak English even when we politely have asked them to at least try. That resulted in some english speaking clans to be alienated and they left relatively early. Also there seemed to be some unwilingness to PvP by the majority of the population and i have even heard rumours that a change of spawing place for the new players and an implemantation of a safezone was discussed and to be eventually brought in front of the devs. In the end i think that Prussia attracted people for the wrong reason. Possibly the flag, or to be a haeven for German speakers combined with the unwillingess to PvP. Although i understand that German speakers are a large chunk of the community, i think that a possible solution to that problem would be to change the nation to something like Portugal,Venice,Greece etc. Or restricting the access to those nations only to proven PvP fighters. The situation might be salvageable though, before we reach the point of changing the nation name. On the other hand the other 2 new nations did everything great. Even though Russia attracted a lot of Russian players, a lot of them stayed at their previous nations as well. The Russian nation wasnt so stubborn to not speak English in nation chat or in general and they seeked cooperation with the non-Russian speaking members. They have also proven themselvers to be active PvP and RvR fighters so it was a recipe for success. The same can be told for the Polish nation. Especially during the first days of the merge they have attracted players because they speak English and they are willing to fight no matter what the odds. Edited December 21, 2017 by Sella22 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baron De Bourbon Posted December 21, 2017 Share Posted December 21, 2017 8 minutes ago, admin said: Prussia/Commonwealth can dominate other nations if it they do 2 things 1) unite the national clans 2) practice and get better tactically and strategically There will be no snowball effect as a lot of port battles has small BR limits and intercept fleets are easily avoided. There will be no decrease in PVP as players who don't pvp won't pvp anyway. Players who pvp will actually have more pvp as they cannot get advanced ships without conquest. You offer no in game tools to support your statement. You cant unite clans unless you get place where clan leaders can talk. At the moment all initiative is on the people that are trying to achieve that. You cant use tactics and strategy if your game does not give tools to draw and outline tactics and strategies. If your ideas are key for success, then implement tools into game to support your statements. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Valentine Karrde Posted December 21, 2017 Share Posted December 21, 2017 (edited) 6 minutes ago, admin said: yeah it like basing physics on Newton's The Mathematical Principles of Natural Philosophy or most commonly known as Principa or 3 laws of physics This guy was no newton lol. You found one obscure writer whose ideas matched your own and based your game on it. It's your game but it's also what's driving players away from it. I know if something isn't done about demasting and soon, you aren't going to have anyone left. Edited December 21, 2017 by Valentine Karrde Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baron De Bourbon Posted December 21, 2017 Share Posted December 21, 2017 2 minutes ago, admin said: yeah it like basing physics on Newton's The Mathematical Principles of Natural Philosophy or most commonly known as Principa or 3 laws of physics IF you were a mathematician, you would not follow one's theory blindly. Obviously you are not a mathematician. Besides, the Sir you are mentioning, is not a raw prototype for description of sailing. Instead of bickering, perhaps you can now provide me with an answer on how reduction to ship production will increase pvp action? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Christoph Posted December 21, 2017 Share Posted December 21, 2017 @admin if that stays with the victory marks, we will lose a lot of players 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CaptainCaveMan Posted December 21, 2017 Share Posted December 21, 2017 It is unfortunate to see so much discord in these 18 pages of posts and the disconnect with PvP, so was wondering what the life expectancy of the PvE server will be? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vazco Posted December 21, 2017 Share Posted December 21, 2017 (edited) 9 minutes ago, Baron De Bourbon said: You offer no in game tools to support your statement. You cant unite clans unless you get place where clan leaders can talk. At the moment all initiative is on the people that are trying to achieve that. You cant use tactics and strategy if your game does not give tools to draw and outline tactics and strategies. If your ideas are key for success, then implement tools into game to support your statements. All nations are equal here. It's not the issue. Sure, you have to organize, just like everyone else. It's not a disadvantage, just a barrier for entry. My main problem is that even when you can build a strategical advantage, you're at a disadvantage training new people. When you add to this restriction of not being able to bring an even force of 1'st rates to battle, it becomes a very paintful experience for new players. They will rather leave, than sink for 20 times to win the 21'st. We were on a good road to become a meaningful force. This change will just make our people leave. Devs on one hand try to make game simplier for new players by eg. introducing tutorials. On the other hand with a change like this they make it impossible for new clans to gain experience and become a force that matters. At least let Victory to be craftable from CM's. This gets rid of a snowball effect almost entirely. It just leaves other issues. Edited December 21, 2017 by vazco 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Valentine Karrde Posted December 21, 2017 Share Posted December 21, 2017 I honestly think we are pretty close to a complete shutdown of naval action. It had so much promise but the game is seriously flawed and the developers won't listen to reason. They are out to punish the player rather than make the game fun and playable by all. We've told them for months demasting is out of control, they refuse to fix it. We can get over the arcade style turning if they like that so much. We've told them boarding is broken, they cling to the same old Rock Paper Scissors mini game. They make the game for 2 or 3 people but forget its the masses that bring them income. I've seen this in so many promising games. The game starts out great, then the development team stops making the game for its customers. There is a mass exodus and eventually the doors are closed shortly afterward. I had such high hopes for this game 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Donjuan Dimarco Posted December 21, 2017 Share Posted December 21, 2017 Dear admin, i make it short: Please, revive the converting system combat marks to victory marks. Now you only benefit the strong nations and avoiding that captains show for port battles. That means more empty port battles and loosing playerbase. Greetings Donjuan 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Valentine Karrde Posted December 21, 2017 Share Posted December 21, 2017 (edited) 9 minutes ago, Graf Bernadotte said: Please don't forget that Russia started with access to Victory marks. With those marks we built our PB fleets. Lost 40 ships in one evening and rebuilt them the next day. With the last patch the Russian nation would have collapsed inbetween the first two weeks since we would have run out of ships after our disaster against the Swedes. We recovered because we could replace our losses easily. So please don't take Russia as an example that your newest idea will work. It's the best example for the opposite. Russia performs well today since we organize battles for our players all the time. We organize their ships, we organize allieds and we organize targets. Russia performs because Russian players have a lot of fun in their nation with portbattles. And those portbattles are organized completely without pressure to generate enough Victory marks to have the ships in future as well. That I totally agree with. while I don't think you guys are efficient enough to stand up to really good players (hence why you are focused on britain), everything you said here is completely on the money. Edited December 21, 2017 by Valentine Karrde Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jesters-Ink Posted December 21, 2017 Share Posted December 21, 2017 15 minutes ago, Christoph said: @admin if that stays with the victory marks, we will lose a lot of players Can't agree more. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Teutonic Posted December 21, 2017 Share Posted December 21, 2017 I really wish we went back to damage giving gold/combat rewards instead of only experience. at least for me, that would soften the blow of basically losing the victory mark conversion. I am against losing the conversion because those that win conquest will always continue winning once they get victory marks and everyone else doesn't, tell me how a fleet of non-victory mark ships will win against victory mark ships? only ship currently maybe able to do that is a Wasa which just goes to show, again, how broken it is. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Donjuan Dimarco Posted December 21, 2017 Share Posted December 21, 2017 new system dont make any sense at all. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stepp636 Posted December 21, 2017 Share Posted December 21, 2017 @admin If you want to lose enough players to shut down also the Carribean server just go on with your work. A little heads-up would be nice btw. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Casanova Moderne Posted December 21, 2017 Share Posted December 21, 2017 iam not amused about new system! That is very counter productive. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Christoph Posted December 21, 2017 Share Posted December 21, 2017 Anyone who wins a pb must get a reward. then we have more rvr 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Christoph Posted December 21, 2017 Share Posted December 21, 2017 1 minute ago, Stepp636 said: @admin If you want to lose enough players to shut down also the Carribean server just go on with your work. A little heads-up would be nice btw. the admins often go the wrong way and that's why we lose players 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Casanova Moderne Posted December 21, 2017 Share Posted December 21, 2017 1 minute ago, Christoph said: Anyone who wins a pb must get a reward. then we have more rvr thats true. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stepp636 Posted December 21, 2017 Share Posted December 21, 2017 Just now, Christoph said: Anyone who wins a pb must get a reward. then we have more rvr and we are back in farming the marks. fun battles are the incentives for rvr. That's enough and everyone is happy. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Casanova Moderne Posted December 21, 2017 Share Posted December 21, 2017 (edited) the new sytem is shit. sorry to say that. Edited December 21, 2017 by Casanova Moderne 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Amplify of Key West Posted December 21, 2017 Share Posted December 21, 2017 i urge you to see the risk off snowballing here 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RaimundoJoe Posted December 21, 2017 Share Posted December 21, 2017 NOOO! WTH, we did this, and did not work. I fully understand that one needs to reward those who fight, but do it in a diffrent way. How do you propose we replace a lost "MHS Victory" ship? 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jesters-Ink Posted December 21, 2017 Share Posted December 21, 2017 1 minute ago, AxIslander said: NOOO! WTH, we did this, and did not work. I fully understand that one needs to reward those who fight, but do it in a diffrent way. How do you propose we replace a lost "MHS Victory" ship? Need to reward all who fight, not just the side that wins, that way all will fight even for the pathetic amount they will be rewarded. A game that rewards only the "strong" soon has no one for them to fight. 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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