Patch 11.0: New ships, Unity 5, Improved clan based conquest, and many other changes.

[Sir Texas Sir]

8 minutes ago, admin said:

people ran with rewards last year.. running was happening all over the place, there were even pvp event zones and paint chests and people still ran from battles where they had a decent chance to win.

We know folks are going to win, but what he's saying is we should get some sort of reward in fights no matter what. If I sink and do a lot of damage but not any assist and kills I get nothing.  If I'm low level and only shoot sails I get nothing cause I didn't do enough to get the assist and kills.  Bring back XP for damage and you still reward those that don't run and try to fight something for the fight even if the other guy escapes.  Right now no rewards for damage hurts the little guy more than anything.  He can't tag along with others an support the fight cause he earns "ZERO" in the fight even if he spent the whole time shooting sails or doing stern rakes killing a few crew here or there.  Maybe it will encourage 1 out of 10 players to fight more, but that is still one more player than we had before that wants to actually stay and fight.

[admin]

Just now, rediii said:

Problem is that players dont know where the other pvp players are and if there is such a hot zone it has no deeper meaning than just fighting

Translation = a small group of 6 players does not know where the other group of 6 players are because the only groups they see is 25 ship fleets?
But is not it like all sandbox rvr games work (from eve to guild wars 2?). 

[vazco]

24 minutes ago, admin said:

Translation = a small group of 6 players does not know where the other group of 6 players are because the only groups they see is 25 ship fleets?
But is not it like all sandbox rvr games work (from eve to guild wars 2?). 

Yes, 6 player group can't find another similar group. It's the same with 25 player group, they don't know where another such group is. They don't even know where to search for each other, regardless of size. 

Even if those groups find each other and fight, it doesn't influence OW or RvR.

[vazco]

With flag system even small group could still intercept the flag of larger groups. This also generated fights.

Flags had serious issues for PB's, however they wouldn't have those issues if they didn't cause port to exchange hands, but had minor effect on rvr.

[Skully]

43 minutes ago, admin said:

people ran with rewards last year.. running was happening all over the place, there were even pvp event zones and paint chests and people still ran from battles where they had a decent chance to win.

When we had flags there was an incentive to get stuck in. http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=713581397

Without those it became more important to not lose "valuable" ships. Which ironically is historically more accurate. 

The other incentive to get stuck in was just to enter a fight to waste your ship. But that has been frowned upon from the start.

On 8/23/2017 at 11:34 AM, Skully said:

My first Tribunal as an ignorant Flag Captain ready to lose my Surprise to superior forces. (I couldn't even properly identify flags and ranks. )

[admin]

10 minutes ago, vazco said:

Yes, 6 player group can't find another similar group. It's the same with 25 player group, they don't know where another such group is. They don't even know where to search for each other, regardless of size. 

Even if those groups find each other and fight, it doesn't influence OW or RvR.

If they find each other near the ports of their nations sinking will raise hostility and generate port battles

As for the first issue no sandbox rvr game solves this problem. Thats the main reason most games now are lobby based shooters. Eve solves this problem by long long grind of structures. In the age of sail fleet could just arrive and attack the port. Dilemma here is not it? 

[Captain corn blower]

I will have to say the prices are to high now in a lot of ports and 10 tax as well I'm a trader and I'm finding my self sail a th round now looking for good that are not selling for what I used to sell them for not much profit to be made any more then though the 10 percent tax on its not worth it and I'm a level 45 ship crafter and I'm not going to waste my craft I my hour on crafting part or goods so not crafting ship now as well .most player aren't in this game to play economics there here o have fun either in combat or trading .SORRY I pay enough tax in the real world and can't afford shit ,

 

Edited September 20, 2017 by Captain corn blower

[vazco]

When I think of it, there's very easy way to improve a situation a lot. Give an on screen notice when a hostility mission is created for a port, just like it worked for flags.

Even better solution would be to remove hostility missions and instead use a flag to generate 100% hostility at once. This way people who want to do pvp know better where to do it, and are not forced to pve.

 

It also generates more fights  as even a small force can intercept a flag and have their victory. 

Probably not much coding is needed for both.

Edited September 20, 2017 by vazco

[admin]

1 minute ago, vazco said:

Even better solution would be to remove hostility missions and instead use a flag to generate 100% hostility at once. This way people who want to do pvp know better where to do it, and are not forced to pve.

 

its not a better solution at all. flag is exploitable because its an item. edge cases with flags ruin the whole system. flags won't return.

[Vizzini]

Just now, rediii said:

Information doesnt need to be a popup on everyones screen though. Can be a different chatchannel or something like this aswell. Or just a area on the map where hostility was generated or something else.

However information has to be there so peole can organize. I agree with others if they say that hostility is refreshed in too long intervals because you dont notjce it in time mostly

I have seen it said somewhere on the forums before, but just the attacking force being active in the area would be an idea for hostility generation, how long this would need to take and whether that is too long to do , or too short for defenders was the concern. I could easily get on board with 10-15 player PB's instead of forcing 25's

I wouldn't want to see players in their capital defence zones waiting for an instance battle to pop .. Legends is coming, lets not let it ruin the OW PVP that we are trying to hang on to

[admin]

9 minutes ago, rediii said:

Then maybe everyone can enter a enemy port. into a instance. If you destroy the defences you can loot them = raid

Loot = things in the market and taxmoney for example. Chance for paintdrops

If a raid happens port turns into a different colour for example on the map

Raids are max 8 people max 3rd rate

Sandbox RVR games are power projections games. Power comes from skill or numbers or both. Gaining numbers is a skill (motivational, organizational). 

Why should a game punish a group who can gather 25 players by allowing 8 players have a limited instance against them leaving 17 of their players outside with no gameplay? They did everything right, built a fleet, managed to persuade players to rvr/pvp, defend their waters en force.

No sandbox rvr game does that (from hardcore eve to casual guild wars 2). Its a slippery slope.
First we will have 8v8 battles and then someone will say - wait i am playing alone - why can't i raid alone, please fix now.  

the solution exists and is found (and works well). Lobby based shooters where group of any size can find a balanced battle at a click of a button = naval action legends. Otherwise allowing 8 players to attack 25 players with ease makes 25 players unhappy.

 

[vazco]

6 minutes ago, admin said:

its not a better solution at all. flag is exploitable because its an item. edge cases with flags ruin the whole system. flags won't return.

From what I know I'm the one who first proposed an idea for a hostility system, listing all issues with flags in the process. The thing is that almost all those issues disappear if flags are used only for generation of hostility. PB themselves could work just like right now. 

Only one serious issue remains, which is fake flag. This can be easily solved though by high flag cost, which would be returned only if flag actually sank, or generated hostility. 

 

You could also tie flag to a ship it was generated on to avoid other funny stuff.

 

Flags are just one solution though. We're just saying we need some tool to better find each other. It would be also great to link battles to rvr and incentivise fights due to this, however it's only a problem. Finding each other is a huge problem. 

[George Washington]

2 hours ago, admin said:

Players who want to find pvp could for example arrive to hostility generations

I've experienced multiple fails with your system and will not pvp or rvr until this is fixed.  

-Time it takes to get a group together.

-Time it takes to sail to the hostility area.

By the time we arrive other group left and we wasted 1+ hour sailing for nothing on multiple occasions. I assure you this system will get you many players.  Read my suggestion and think about making travel around the world easier (any location within 20 minutes with possible fee). 

 

Edited September 20, 2017 by George Washington

[admin]

8 minutes ago, vazco said:

From what I know I'm the one who first proposed an idea for a hostility system, listing all issues with flags in the process. The thing is that almost all those issues disappear if flags are used only for generation of hostility. PB themselves could work just like right now. 

Only one serious issue remains, which is fake flag. This can be easily solved though by high flag cost, which would be returned only if flag actually sank, or generated hostility. 

You could also tie flag to a ship it was generated on to avoid other funny stuff.

Flags are just one solution though. We're just saying we need some tool to better find each other. It would be also great to link battles to rvr and incentivise fights due to this, however it's only a problem. Finding each other is a huge problem. 

All things you described require coding and generate more bugs and will take a lot of time (wasting it). Hostility missions provide a clear way to get the port even if enemy does not show up, allow SOME response options, and cannot be exploited by alts or whatever. They work.

regarding finding each other. targets dont want to be found until they have a numerical advantage and broadside weight advantage, once your target has a numerical and power advantage then you don't want to be found.

[George Washington]

7 minutes ago, admin said:

All things you described require coding and generate more bugs. Hostility missions provide a clear way to get the port even if enemy does not show up, allow SOME response options, and cannot be exploited by alts or whatever. They work.

regarding finding each other. targets dont want to be found until they have a numerical advantage and broadside weight advantage, once your target has a numerical and power advantage then you don't want to be found.

how come in potbs people were able to find other groups in red and have non stop fights? 

1. they watched numbers grow

2. red zone appeared on world map and warnings sent out to all nations

3. pvp groups quick travel to the area from all locations

4. tons of fights and pvp

Question is can you make the same in your game? 

------------

How I see it work in NA.

1. Hostility triggers with warnings

At let's say values 2000 4000 6000 hostility world message notifies all players in every nation that area is under attack. When player opens world map hostility area is flashing red.

2. Spawn points and quick travel fee

Add multiple spawn points around the world that use special battle xp + doubloons to 'quick travel'. Spawn points must be within 20 minutes sail from near land. Spawn point is made of 3 spawn locations to prevent camping. (Triangle). Battle xp is earned from any fight and used as currency to quick travel through spawn points. 

Edited September 20, 2017 by George Washington

[admin]

4 minutes ago, George Washington said:

how come in potbs people were able to find other groups in red and have non stop fights? 

1. they watched numbers grow

i played potbs from closed beta , then on roberts then on russian server until closure of russian server, i built the first pirate frigate on roberts. i did not see numbers grow sorry. By the end it was impossible to find fights and as an active clan and pvp player i only saw 3 groups fighting (Alliance for spanish, wolfpack and PODW for pirates and my british clan) 24 players in total , by the end of the server all battles were arranged. The only time pvp worked there is when they had online. 

Same here. Go leave positive reviews and raise online with us. Otherwise play legends that will have non stop super fun pvp without any negative consequences.

[George Washington]

12 minutes ago, admin said:

i played potbs from closed beta , then on roberts then on russian server until closure of russian server, i built the first pirate frigate on roberts. i did not see numbers grow sorry. By the end it was impossible to find fights and as an active clan and pvp player i only saw 3 groups fighting (Alliance for spanish, wolfpack and PODW for pirates and my british clan) 24 players in total , by the end of the server all battles were arranged. The only time pvp worked there is when they had online. 

Same here. Go leave positive reviews and raise online with us. Otherwise play legends that will have non stop super fun pvp without any negative consequences.

Well, I had non stop fight every day on Antigua over 3000 movs and every possible ship in game was earned in pvp. The first tool we used was world map with numbers updating in real time after NPC or player was killed. It indicated that players are there. That was the trick. 

Go leave positive reviews and raise online with us. Otherwise play legends...

Instead of adding an easy fix you keep sinking your game. Good reviews will not come because NA is not a well functioning product. I offer few tools that will make this game popular for pvp. I hope you listen to my suggestions. 

Edited September 20, 2017 by George Washington

[admin]

18 minutes ago, vazco said:

 

Flags are just one solution though. We're just saying we need some tool to better find each other. It would be also great to link battles to rvr and incentivise fights due to this, however it's only a problem. Finding each other is a huge problem. 

also

if you want pvp attack cartagena or philipsburg. PVP guaranteed. The problem of finding each other won't exist around those ports.

[George Washington]

Just now, Otto Kohl said:

Sailing in OW looking for PvP is 95% waste of time at the moment. That's why most of lone hunters stopped playing.

Admin doesn't understand it for some reason. Sorry to say, but NA will not move anywhere if we won't get spawn points around the world or some other tools that will allow groups to quickly show up to the fight. 

[Corona Lisa]

43 minutes ago, admin said:

Why should a game punish a group who can gather 25 players by allowing 8 players have a limited instance against them leaving 17 of their players outside with no gameplay? They did everything right, built a fleet, managed to persuade players to rvr/pvp, defend their waters en force.

It shouldnt, there should be content both for smaller groups and for big groups tho. Grouping up in massive fleets where playerskill doesnt matter much and only 5 people talk and the rest has to follow orders like bots isnt fun for everyone.

Edited September 20, 2017 by Aegon Targaryen

[George Washington]

4 minutes ago, Peter Goldman said:

Bahamas are getting very hot now. There is US, Pirate, Spanish and Swedish nation present. Soon a massive tensions in Bahamas will trigger a huge war.

Hereby, I would like to invite as well Dutch, British, French and Danish nations to the Bahamas.

@ScipioTortuga @Tac @North @Anolytic @PIerrick de Badas @Raxius @EliteDelta @Lucky L

Give me a break. Massive war, you just made me smile. 

[admin]

5 minutes ago, George Washington said:

Give me a break. Massive war, you just made me smile. 

focus on patch notes or move to general discussions or tavern to talk about humor or other things unrelated to the patch notes discussions

[Vizzini]

10 minutes ago, rediii said:

I didnt see a big war in the last time. I think if there is one it would generate a lot of pvp but in general I noticed that most of NA players withdraw and dont want to fight anymore if things get hairy. I hope I get proven wrong though. The show of force of france yesterday motivated me again and I hope we will see a lot of pvp around guadeloupe for the next time.

Shallow battles and the bahamas in general are very interesting. I can everyone recommend to go there and have fun. Low cost of ships and high speed of battles are very nice

Bolded for emphasis and what I am sadly noticing too, everything has just been made cheaper and easier to get and yet people are still worried about somebody sinking their pixels

[admin]

31 minutes ago, Otto Kohl said:

Sailing in OW looking for PvP is 95% waste of time at the moment. That's why most of lone hunters stopped playing.

solo pvp hunter content is a function 

• its a function of online numbers.
• The number of solo hunters is approximately 100 for 2000 players. 
• When online is 500 you have 25 solo hunters searching for fights. When online goes down time to search for pvp increases drastically. 
• As a result solo hunter experience can only improve if online improves. But online cannot increase if we are solely focusing on solo hunters. 

Same with small group pvp content.

[Vizzini]

Just now, rediii said:

I dont mean running away from battles

Yes I Understood and I am seeing both. People hiding from battles and people taking a beating and getting demoralized, thinking they have lost and there is no way back. Even though the game has only just restarted