Patch 11.0: New ships, Unity 5, Improved clan based conquest, and many other changes.

[Teutonic]

2 hours ago, Quineloe said:

@admin that's a solid one with labor hour decrease and resource increase. Does that mean that a level 1 stone quarry will mine 360 per day instead of just 300? Very good reasons to hold ports now.

I think more people will realize how good the bonuses are in ports you can capture soon. Or at least use them to their advantage.

I would still like to see more bonuses, options, or uses for a captured port, but increasing the resource generation by up to 20% and labor hour cost reduction by up to 20% is pretty crazy for some resources.

[Liq]

28 minutes ago, rediii said:

Eco is broken.

 

Noone sells ressources/materials anymore because gold isn't worth anything so we cant build ships anymore alone

Who would have seen that coming ^^ Now Imagine if it actually was +800% as originally said (50k to 400k per vic sunk in pve). Zimbabwe calling, they want some 0's back!

[BallsOfSteel]

1 hour ago, Liq said:

Who would have seen that coming ^^ Now Imagine if it actually was +800% as originally said (50k to 400k per vic sunk in pve). Zimbabwe calling, they want some 0's back!

I sunk two vics and assisted in a third last night. got 160K, not 400K

[Barbancourt]

2 hours ago, rediii said:

Eco is broken.

 

Noone sells ressources/materials anymore because gold isn't worth anything so we cant build ships anymore alone

Why sell useful resources?  Open a building and put them in clan warehouse. 

[Teutonic]

BTw, seems the hotfix did 2 things that I have noticed so far.

1. Made it so that you can Teleport to and from all freetowns

2. All deep water Regional capital ports are now Lineship Port Battles, and all other deep water ports are 4th rate port battles.

I give a big thumbs up for both of these changes.

[Fargo]

6 hours ago, Robert said:

Not sure why would a PvP player leave when things are cheap and affordable, why do you think that legends could become more popular than this game? This game has a lot of appeal because of OW, Crafting and Economy which is a more realistic approach but in order for the PvP to survive it should be just means to an end. There is also the time factor, most of players do not have the time and just want to jump in and out of action so the key word as you said it's balance and catering to a larger player base.

I dont think there are many pure PvP players in general. Then less general players make it harder to find PvP, what results in even less players, what makes it even harder to find PvP, etc. Even pure PvP players need something to achieve that keeps them motivated. A game like NA legends is going to have stuff to achieve to keep people motivated too. Look at similar games, and how long it takes to unlock new vehicles for example. 

NA wasnt ment to be quick action. I mean you probably could find quick action in NA, if it was a functional game with more players, it would just take a while to get started and combat is different (not always fair) compared with lobby based games. But the goal shouldnt be to please the largest possible playerbase, the goal should be to develop a functional game like it is described in steam. Devs should make clear what this description means, but they still dont even know themself.

[admin]

5 hours ago, Liq said:

Who would have seen that coming ^^ Now Imagine if it actually was +800% as originally said (50k to 400k per vic sunk in pve). Zimbabwe calling, they want some 0's back!

First you ask us to make players fear about ships less by increasing rewards. Now you post snarky remarks about virtual zeroes nobody cares about.
I hope your feedback in legends is more useful and less conflicting

[Liq]

1 hour ago, admin said:

First you ask us to make players fear about ships less by increasing rewards. Now you post snarky remarks about virtual zeroes nobody cares about.
I hope your feedback in legends is more useful and less conflicting

Where did I? I said several times that 5th rates were cheap already to craft.. And we have seen before the wipe where players had millions worth of assets that the average player didnt want to risk anything in an equal engagement

[Skully]

1 hour ago, admin said:

First you ask us to make players fear about ships less by increasing rewards. Now you post snarky remarks about virtual zeroes nobody cares about.
I hope your feedback in legends is more useful and less conflicting

Because you turned on the money tap, instead of making the rewards properly zero-sum balanced.

PvE ships are worth 0 (prize) money. It takes a player a cookie click to instantiate those, which must not be rewarded.

1. Hard work and skills needs to be rewarded;
2. A ship sunk counts as battle points both the killer and loser (assist gets some battle points too);
3. Either (or both)
   1. The money faucet itself should spew 500 gold / minute into the prize pool. (This needs to be adjusted later for the rank of players involved.)
   2. A base reward into the prize pool for the mission itself (which we already have of sorts).

 

[Skully]

7 hours ago, rediii said:

Noone sells ressources/materials anymore because gold isn't worth anything so we cant build ships anymore alone

Almost true. No-one is selling because the futures on commodities are flying through the roof. (And we have no futures market to counter this. )

We can try and find the fair price, lets start with putting an extra 0 behind every resource price. Or rather lets charge $500 per labor hour. Hopefully I have time today to put up a new definitive price guide.

[Captain Lust]

42 minutes ago, Liq said:

Where did I? I said several times that 5th rates were cheap already to craft.. And we have seen before the wipe where players had millions worth of assets that the average player didnt want to risk anything in an equal engagement

This is pretty much what i am thinking...  it's not that ships are too expensive. People just like to blame "expensive ships" for their fear of losing as an excuse. Now it seems we are back to where ships have barely any value ( the only thing still giving them some small value is the combat mark cost ) with the only somewhat expensive ships being 1-3 rates, Wasa and Hermione because they cost a bunch of marks... maybe this is better but it definitely takes some of the excitement out of PvP, if people burn through ships like it doesn't matter.

Edited September 14, 2017 by Captain Lust

[Quineloe]

4 hours ago, admin said:

First you ask us to make players fear about ships less by increasing rewards. Now you post snarky remarks about virtual zeroes nobody cares about.
I hope your feedback in legends is more useful and less conflicting

The main issue remains that you can fight a PVP fight for an hour and then you leave and get "Battle Report: No rewards". Whether you lose your ship or not. You broke the best feature of your game for no reason.

This is why so few people PVP today. Why do all for nothing.

Edited September 14, 2017 by Quineloe

[mikawa]

@admin, can you please explain the reward mechanic atm? I observed that I got fewer rewards in a battle where AI fleet joined together with me against LGV (maybe call it bad tag) as if I would have fought alone (Though I got the kill). This reward mechanic is the heart of every battle, so I ask you to explain how it works in depth ...

Thx in advance.

Edited September 14, 2017 by mikawa
@ added

[Quineloe]

41 minutes ago, mikawa said:

@admin, can you please explain the reward mechanic atm? I observed that I got fewer rewards in a battle where AI fleet joined together with me against LGV (maybe call it bad tag) as if I would have fought alone (Though I got the kill). This reward mechanic is the heart of every battle, so I ask you to explain how it works in depth ...

Thx in advance.

easy, a ship is worth a set amount of exp, gold and CMs based on its BR. You deal 30% damage to it, you get 30% of that. You deal 100% of that, you get all of it. kill/assist is purely cosmetic. Your 70% kill with a few AI ships also in the battle is worth less than your 100% kill all by yourself.

[mikawa]

2 minutes ago, Quineloe said:

easy, a ship is worth a set amount of exp, gold and CMs based on its BR. You deal 30% damage to it, you get 30% of that. You deal 100% of that, you get all of it. kill/assist is purely cosmetic. Your 70% kill with a few AI ships also in the battle is worth less than your 100% kill all by yourself.

That is a very important information, I've never read anything about this before. Thx for pointing that out.

[Rigge1988]

5 hours ago, admin said:

First you ask us to make players fear about ships less by increasing rewards. Now you post snarky remarks about virtual zeroes nobody cares about.
I hope your feedback in legends is more useful and less conflicting

Admin... You must understand that the correct approach to cheaper ships would be to dump the prices on ships and crafting materials from which you craft ships.

As of now, the ships are not cheaper they will just follow the inflation curve. What cost 200k last sunday will cost 700k today.

This is because the networth of gold was drastically decreased by increasing rewards.

The only ships that got cheaper to purchase are the ones sold by NPC. Including admirality shop (this was needed, thank you)

 

Decreasing rewards again would most likely prolong  the economic turbulence we currently experience. It doesn't matter if the gold is worth this much or that much. Whatever we have right now will stabilize and eventually set where we were an hour before patch. Just a few more zeroes and higher values.

So that was economy 1o1. Now what good comes with a little inflation? Say for example you had an item worth 1.08 gold. Thats not 1 gold or 2 gold. With  the help of inflations its now 108 gold straight away.

 

I was not the one who yelled the loudest about rewards.

Sincerely

 

 

Edited September 14, 2017 by Rigge1988

[Guest]

11 hours ago, rediii said:

Eco is broken.

 

Noone sells ressources/materials anymore because gold isn't worth anything so we cant build ships anymore alone

Exact same problem as the last time we had this type of hyper-inflation. They never goddamn learn, and good bye any chances of ever testing eco without yet another full wipe now.

Didn't even get to test much of an eco anyways since they opted for lots of unrelated trading goods instead of something akin to a player-run economy.

Hello 2016.

[admin]

3 hours ago, Skully said:

Because you turned on the money tap, instead of making the rewards properly zero-sum balanced.

Everybody wants realistic economy and zero sum balanced rewards, but nobody plays those games. 
Realistic economy means 1% are rich, everyone else has a job. We found that most players don't  want a job in a game, they just want progress at their own pace and it means money should not be a problem for everyone. 

[admin]

4 minutes ago, Rigge1988 said:

So that was economy 1o1. Now what good comes with a little inflation? Say for example you had an item worth 1.08 gold. Thats not 1 gold or 2 gold. With  the help of inflations its now 108 gold straight away.

 

There is no inflation in production goods, because production costs stay the same and supply is unlimited (every player can have 5 buildings + there are european traders).

You can grow fir at 31 gold per load of logs. and this stays the same even if money supply increases 10х
Real inflation affects all costs including production costs (salaries, cost of electricity, steam or whatever). Production cost are not going up. 

There will be inflation of looted goods as the supply is limited.

[Skully]

4 minutes ago, admin said:

Everybody wants realistic economy and zero sum balanced rewards, but nobody plays those games. 

Zero sum balanced rewards are not equal to zero rewards. It just means that whatever goes into a battle gets out of battle. Either as capture, runaway or prize.

I think a PvP Victory going to Davy Jones's locker would give a pretty good reward.

[Rigge1988]

1 minute ago, admin said:

There is no inflation in production goods, because production costs stay the same and supply is unlimited (every player can have 5 buildings + there are european traders).

You can grow fir at 31 gold per load of logs. and this stays the same even if money supply increases 10х
Real inflation affects all costs including production costs (salaries, cost of electricity, steam or whatever). Production cost are not going up. 

There will be inflation of looted goods as the supply is limited.

You decreased daily production and storage thereof.

[Skully]

1 minute ago, Rigge1988 said:

You decreased daily production and storage thereof.

Opportunity cost is on the rise. 

[jodgi]

Just now, Skully said:

Opportunity cost is on the rise. 

What does that mean?

[Quineloe]

the really funny part that is not listed in the patch notes at all is that we can now roughly harvest only 1/3 of resources from buildings. Quite a huge cut..

[admin]

12 minutes ago, Rigge1988 said:

You decreased daily production and storage thereof.

Unlike reality (iron deposit is finite) the supply is unlimited as 10000 players can build a mine in the city, and mine normally.

The daily production is reduced but it is in fact unlimited because of european traders that were brought back. Place a contract for coal in a coal producing city and if the price is right the resource will be brought to you.

There is no inflation on production costs as a result. Because if economy was fully realistic we go back to - "i want to play an iron miner but i can't because the iron mine license is already given to that guild and no-one else can have it as there is only one mine in that city"