Wanted: British Patrol Captains

[Christendom]

Right now pirates are the Zerg nation.  

[Vizzini]

16 hours ago, Hodo said:

The thing is, it is easier to become unified when there are fewer cats to heard.   

In GB we have probably 70-100 people in that nation, with about a dozen clans, most of them have completely different plans for the nation. About half of them actually talk to the other clans, and 1 of them is definitely an alt clan.   

So this is the problem we face in GB.   It isnt that we need more people, far from it.  We need more cooperation between the various factions in GB.  

Seems this way from the inside looking out. I'm not privvy to any internal workings of any clan but when I noticed GB grinding hostility in 2 different areas and not getting to 100% in either it was clear there are problems.  Clear objectives for any nation are ideal, everybody understands what is going on or at least the basic overall. French are out picking fights, Pirates are acting more like a nation than a disparate group of desperados and GB look like a multitude of 10 player clans unwilling to give up their own fifedoms for the national cause

 

There needs to be fewer clans , the clans that are involved need to be more accommodating and understanding

[Sir Texas Sir]

9 hours ago, Hodo said:

If we just go by the day to day totals on that chart, you are looking that GB having a massive 12-13 person advantage over the pirates.  I dont know if that would be overwhelming numbers but I wouldnt consider it that personally.  

Then when you talk about the US, the US is mostly noob accounts that login at most once or twice a week.  If anything probably 1/3rd of those accounts are actual players who play more than 4 hours a week.  I would venture to say that half of those 180ish players are lower than the rank of Pst.Capt.    Then there are the alts, which at a conservative guess would be around 1/4 of the active population shown in that chart in the US and GB are probably alts of main characters in that nation, 1/10 are alts from other nations.   

I know from personal count I have seen 5 known Black clan alts in GB, and 3 US alts.   This is just what I have counted.   I know there are many more.   I also know of a half dozen GB/US alts in Spain and Pirates.    So to say your chart is inaccurate, would be an understatement.   Without hard numbers, on a day to day login for EACH nation, it is impossible to tell the true numbers.   

Fact is I believe Pirates are the second largest nation behind the GB currently in Global.   And US being third and close behind them would be France and the Danes.   

 

Honestly right now at this time we kinda have to agree with you that US and Pirates prob have about the same numbers or Pirates has more active players at this time.  Not counting the alts and carebears that just pop in and trader of course we do have the most hardcore PvP/RvR numbers of any nation.  The whole nation of having every one want to kill brings that into play. I just would love to see the updated numbers cause GB blew up insanely large with the patch.  Way to large and i think that hurt them cause they spread all over the place and every one did there own thing.  Maybe it's good if US and GB goes back to starting small and than expanding at a pace they can handle as a nation.  I like the new mechanics as it encourages nations to fight, but don't like the free rewards to every one in the nation that doesn't fight.  We expect a lot of lats and players swapping over.  We kinda have a plan for that if it gets to bad.   HINT HINT we all have alts with 2 forge papers works we can roll to another nation if we feel it comes to that and we can play then for a while.

The biggest problem with both nations is if they loose one big main region folks start to throw in the towel and give up.  BLACK has zero plans to one port any one at this time. We do have some clan members that want to, but we won't do it.  Funny is that it's all ways the former Nationals guys that want to one port a nation (ex Brits hate Brtis, Ex US hate US, etc....)  In fact once we get the numbers of control points up we might give up some ports to smaller nations and such to make the server more equal.  We also expect to get attacked by more than one nation at any time.  Hell US and GB tried it and still fail.  Numbers will never mean anything if your not organized.  Some of the biggest nations where toppled over by smaller armies that fought smarter and harder.

JUST TO MAKE IT CLEAR...>BLACK WILL NOT ALLOW OTHER NATIONS JUMPERS INTO CLAN AT THIS MOMENT<   So if you jump ship your not going to join us. If you can't stick it out and fight for you own nation than we don't want you either.   This is not to say we might have new members we worked on for some time to join, but if you just randomly leave you nation and think you can join you won't be able to.  

[Sir Texas Sir]

9 hours ago, The Red Duke said:

Forget that graph. Populations migrated from server to server. The Status Quo was wiped when it went Global.

Yah it's an example that is all, but they should of done an update a few weeks to a month after the merge/patch and than again when they gave out the second forged papers.  Still would like to know the current numbers though too.

[BallsOfSteel]

If you dont keep most of your Nations forces at the front lines you will never win. Rear Area is for crafters.

The Conquest system we have and victory Marks will also need to change. Only the most ports get victory marks and access to the ships replacements that they require to make them stronger. Thats a good system.....

 

33 minutes ago, Sir Texas Sir said:

Yah it's an example that is all, but they should of done an update a few weeks to a month after the merge/patch and than again when they gave out the second forged papers.  Still would like to know the current numbers though too.

Texas,

Where did that come from, would be interesting to see the current status quo.

[Iroquois Confederacy]

On 7/19/2017 at 6:18 PM, Teutonic said:

Personally I actually think for overall "activity" population the order is this

Brits/Pirates
France
US
Dutch
Denmark
Sweden

when I mean activity, I mean a player group or community that actively takes part in PvP or RvR. Crafting is there too, but You can't really get an active read on it without going deeper into the numbers. If we talk about "raw" player count and people doing any type of "thing" or even just sitting in ports, then this list certainly would change.

I can't help but to notice the lack of the Free Tribes in your list...

[Sir Texas Sir]

4 hours ago, BallsOfSteel said:

If you dont keep most of your Nations forces at the front lines you will never win. Rear Area is for crafters.

The Conquest system we have and victory Marks will also need to change. Only the most ports get victory marks and access to the ships replacements that they require to make them stronger. Thats a good system.....

 

Texas,

Where did that come from, would be interesting to see the current status quo.

It was posted by the Devs back in March before the game Patch/Wipe was announced.  This was the PvP1 numbers posted the same day.  Wasn't broken down as well though.  I agree I would love to see the current actual numbers.

The old conquest system was bad that got folks to spread out way to much.  I think the new one has merit but needs to be worked where it rewards the largest and gets other nations involved in the fight, but I think every one should get one point and than the winner gets 3.  2nd gets 2 and 3rd gets 1 and do pay outs like very 2-3 weeks.  This allows the small nations still a chance to build those ships.  They did split a lot of the ships up so you can still craft some of them with combat marks instead of needing victory marks.

[Tenet]

On 7/19/2017 at 5:26 PM, Hodo said:

The thing is, it is easier to become unified when there are fewer cats to herd.   

In GB we have probably 70-100 people in that nation, with about a dozen clans, most of them have completely different plans for the nation. About half of them actually talk to the other clans, and 1 of them is definitely an alt clan.   

This is the biggest lie in this entire chain of events. 

Every ex-GB player that switched Dutch or France reported the same thing - brutal exploitation and suppression of rookies. Total lack of support, wild prices, no culture of fair direct supply. You had all that human capital and you wasted it, not even realizing it's worth. Talk to some recruiters among these nations, see how much value they place on just one more person to train up.

I clearly remember the mocking of open recruiting methods - "oh you take just anyone" not realizing it was a bleeding wound. 

Then there is training - it's easy to criticize your own people for not using manual sails. How many organized trainings did GB hold, on voice chat explaining to rookies how to sail in line, how to tack? No time to do so since the wipe, really? 

Who lacked the leadership and charisma to organize a national campaign of armament and practice? 

[Chijohnaok]

On 7/19/2017 at 9:15 PM, Bach said:

Many issues for large nations are simply due to the "nation council" concept. It's a war game. As much as Sun Tzu Art of War strategy is actually bad for MMOs so is Democracy. The concept of "committee rule" is more difficult the more players you have. The pirate nation has the ability to establish a pecking order more than most. Not that it is easy.   But being under constant assault, Mortimer is a heavily hunted zone, and having the option of green on green conflict they have more tools to resolve internal pecking order. 

If the USA and Brit nations had tools to establish clan pecking orders they would truly become the more dangerous teams. The Devs needs to consider this.  It is also part of what made the Nuetral Faction idea fail.  It was irrelevant since clans with actual nuetral tendencies could just hide inside the supposedly warring nations without penalty.  But if the largest Brit clan could force its will on smaller ones higher level of organization is more likely to form. 

You're dreaming.

How is the largest British clan (and I am not sure who that even is) supposed to enforce its will on smaller ones?

In the pirate nation, smaller clans that resist are subject to outlaw battles to try to keep them in line.  That is not an option in GB or any of the other nations.  If a small clan (or any clan for that matter) doesn't like a decision (either imposed or arrived at by consensus of the majority) than they simply ignore it.  There is no penalty currently in game for GB (or other national) one clan to "force its will" on another.  

And I have seen no indication anywhere (forums or otherwise) that the developers have ever considered giving the outlaw tool to any nation other than pirate.  (In the distant past if you attacked someone of your own nation it automatically made you a pirate).  

[Chijohnaok]

48 minutes ago, Tenet said:

This is the biggest lie in this entire chain of events. 

Every ex-GB player that switched Dutch or France reported the same thing - brutal exploitation and suppression of rookies. Total lack of support, wild prices, no culture of fair direct supply. You had all that human capital and you wasted it, not even realizing it's worth. Talk to some recruiters among these nations, see how much value they place on just one more person to train up.

I clearly remember the mocking of open recruiting methods - "oh you take just anyone" not realizing it was a bleeding wound. 

Then there is training - it's easy to criticize your own people for not using manual sails. How many organized trainings did GB hold, on voice chat explaining to rookies how to sail in line, how to tack? No time to do so since the wipe, really? 

Who lacked the leadership and charisma to organize a national campaign of armament and practice? 

Organizing training is easier said than done.  Since the Patch 10 I have been in 2 nations (US and GB). We repeatedly attempted to organize training activities for those captains that needed help with things like manual sails.  Responses ranged from clan leaders telling us that 'their members don't need that shit' to training sessions where no one showed up.  We were called elitists when we offered to conduct training sessions OR we were called toxic for criticizing when we saw captains that could not stay out of irons in a 4th rate PB or do simple things like sail in lines, turn in succession, or follow a port battle commander's orders.  

Edited July 21, 2017 by Chijohnaok

[Doug Maoz]

This is sadly why I left the British. They did not want to learn or improve, and it seems that trend continues. 

27 minutes ago, Chijohnaok said:

Organizing training is easier said than done.  Since the Patch 10 I have been in 2 nations (US and GB). We repeatedly attempted to organize training activities for those captains that needed help with things like manual sails.  Responses ranged from clan leaders telling us that 'their members don't need that shit' to training sessions where no one showed up.  We were called elitists when we offered to conduct training sessions OR we were called toxic for criticizing when we saw captains that could not stay out of irons in a 4th rate PB or do simple things like sail in lines, turn in succession, or follow a port battle commander's orders.  

 

[Chijohnaok]

4 hours ago, Chijohnaok said:

Organizing training is easier said than done.  Since the Patch 10 I have been in 2 nations (US and GB). We repeatedly attempted to organize training activities for those captains that needed help with things like manual sails.  Responses ranged from clan leaders telling us that 'their members don't need that shit' to training sessions where no one showed up.  We were called elitists when we offered to conduct training sessions OR we were called toxic for criticizing when we saw captains that could not stay out of irons in a 4th rate PB or do simple things like sail in lines, turn in succession, or follow a port battle commander's orders.  

Addendum:  They say hope springs eternal, so we are willing to keep trying.  ;-)

[chailang]

Let's sleep a little longer  

[Sir Texas Sir]

5 hours ago, Chijohnaok said:

You're dreaming.

How is the largest British clan (and I am not sure who that even is) supposed to enforce its will on smaller ones?

In the pirate nation, smaller clans that resist are subject to outlaw battles to try to keep them in line.  That is not an option in GB or any of the other nations.  If a small clan (or any clan for that matter) doesn't like a decision (either imposed or arrived at by consensus of the majority) than they simply ignore it.  There is no penalty currently in game for GB (or other national) one clan to "force its will" on another.  

And I have seen no indication anywhere (forums or otherwise) that the developers have ever considered giving the outlaw tool to any nation other than pirate.  (In the distant past if you attacked someone of your own nation it automatically made you a pirate).  

I just want to make it very clear something here, we don't use the Pirate vs Pirate battles to bully small clans.  We have used them and with the other clans and clanless joining in for two reasons.

1) A pirate attacks another pirate normally around Mort and calls out for help.  We would come out and help. If we are late we would start a new FFA battle and destroy the attacker.   If we can we would try to return a ship by capturing the outlaws ship to the one that lost one.

2) Outlaws/Known spies clans that are trying to cause a rift between pirates in the nation.  This was shown with HELL clan that had suspected members that we thought might of been US or GB alts.  They attacked us and than a none clan trader.  When they attacked the none BLACK Pirate the rest of the clans jumped in to help.  Any smart pirate that was in that clan and not involved in the shady business quickly left the clan and joined others saying they didn't want nay business with the clan.  Not to our surprise the suspected spy's/alts rushed over to US to join there masters and than followed to GB.   

While other nations can't use this to help police there nation they can do what we have been doing.  We talk to other clans and let them know how things can run smoother.  They are always free to go do there own thing, but never expect us to help them if they don't get us a heads up.   We trade with them, make ships for them and many of them are very much on there own doing there own tradeing, training and PvE/Ping with out our clan.  

The other day we where asked by two other clans if they could go grind up hostility in ares and fight  with no plans to flip the region. We told them go for it have fun.  If it flips and not in a bad time we will try to help them, but if it's something that will conflict with our own plan we won't be able to help them.  You have to work with each other and know what your strength and meekness are.  We had a nice screen fleeet with us the other night at Les Cayes.  Didn't even ask them to come help.  They must out from of La Tort and went a head of us when we left.  Staying with us until we got closer before rushing off ahead. I think they got more PvP by doing that and had fun.

Yes there is fighting between clans when we butt heads, but that is going to happen when you have more the one group, but we are taking steps to make a better stronger nation as we get more and more players up the 5/4 rates and into the PvP fights.

[Archaos]

2 hours ago, Sir Texas Sir said:

I just want to make it very clear something here, we don't use the Pirate vs Pirate battles to bully small clans.  We have used them and with the other clans and clanless joining in for two reasons.

1) A pirate attacks another pirate normally around Mort and calls out for help.  We would come out and help. If we are late we would start a new FFA battle and destroy the attacker.   If we can we would try to return a ship by capturing the outlaws ship to the one that lost one.

2) Outlaws/Known spies clans that are trying to cause a rift between pirates in the nation.  This was shown with HELL clan that had suspected members that we thought might of been US or GB alts.  They attacked us and than a none clan trader.  When they attacked the none BLACK Pirate the rest of the clans jumped in to help.  Any smart pirate that was in that clan and not involved in the shady business quickly left the clan and joined others saying they didn't want nay business with the clan.  Not to our surprise the suspected spy's/alts rushed over to US to join there masters and than followed to GB.   

While other nations can't use this to help police there nation they can do what we have been doing.  We talk to other clans and let them know how things can run smoother.  They are always free to go do there own thing, but never expect us to help them if they don't get us a heads up.   We trade with them, make ships for them and many of them are very much on there own doing there own tradeing, training and PvE/Ping with out our clan.  

The other day we where asked by two other clans if they could go grind up hostility in ares and fight  with no plans to flip the region. We told them go for it have fun.  If it flips and not in a bad time we will try to help them, but if it's something that will conflict with our own plan we won't be able to help them.  You have to work with each other and know what your strength and meekness are.  We had a nice screen fleeet with us the other night at Les Cayes.  Didn't even ask them to come help.  They must out from of La Tort and went a head of us when we left.  Staying with us until we got closer before rushing off ahead. I think they got more PvP by doing that and had fun.

Yes there is fighting between clans when we butt heads, but that is going to happen when you have more the one group, but we are taking steps to make a better stronger nation as we get more and more players up the 5/4 rates and into the PvP fights.

What you say here just proves what a big help Pirate vs Pirate battles help in bringing a nation into line. Fair enough you do not use it to bully smaller clans, but I am sure if that smaller clan was interfering with your plans to flip a region at a certain time, you would first warn them off and if they did not listen you would take them out in a Pirate vs Pirate battle. That option is not available as a national, as you say the only option we have is to talk to them.

If you have people you suspect of being alts trying to enter your port battle you can take them out before the get in to cause problems. Nationals cannot do that.

You say there is fighting among Pirate clans and accept that is going to happen when you have more than one group, this is the same in all nations but Nationals dont have the ability to fight and actually bring them in line to make the nation stronger. Nationals can only use words and just look at the forums to see how words bring people in line, or do they only make the gap grow wider with abuse and counter abuse. With the ability to actually fight you can make it so that a wayward clan loses members as they are not allowed to operate.

Just the fact that you can use force to back up your words is sometimes enough to make the difference. As the Pirates now are more of a nation rather than Pirates maybe the Pirate vs Pirate battles should be removed until they get round to developing proper pirate mechanics for the game and Pirates are no longer just another Nation under the black flag.

[Skully]

1 hour ago, Archaos said:

Just the fact that you can use force to back up your words is sometimes enough to make the difference. As the Pirates now are more of a nation rather than Pirates maybe the Pirate vs Pirate battles should be removed until they get round to developing proper pirate mechanics for the game and Pirates are no longer just another Nation under the black flag.

This would only serve to bring the bickering into Pirates. Change is needed on the Nationals side, so true alliances (and opposition) can be played out.

Forcing folks to work together without means of resolving disputes will never cut the cake.

[Archaos]

11 minutes ago, Skully said:

This would only serve to bring the bickering into Pirates. Change is needed on the Nationals side, so true alliances (and opposition) can be played out.

Forcing folks to work together without means of resolving disputes will never cut the cake.

Although I can see the merit in such a mechanic, dont you think it could too easily be abused. Imagine a whole clan transferring into your nation just to cause trouble, raid your traders, attack your PB fleet. It would just be chaos, to tell the truth I am surprised that no one has done it to the pirates yet, I realize they have some large well organised PvP clans, but if a dedicated clan of nationals became Pirates it could seriously disrupt them and lead to internal civil war.

Edit: If they did implement something like this you may as well make it a clan vs clan game, because that's what it would evolve into.

Edited July 22, 2017 by Archaos

[Lovec1990]

OP good luck finding British players willing too protect others. In my experience: i got attacked by one pirate without the clan i ask for help and every single brit player that saw me ran into closest port with ship that could beat a pirate and after i said that battle is over there was not a minute everyone went outside.

With this kind of mentality its not possible too protect british ports. Ok there are clans that protect their own

Edited July 22, 2017 by Lovec1990

[Skully]

11 minutes ago, Archaos said:

Although I can see the merit in such a mechanic, dont you think it could too easily be abused. Imagine a whole clan transferring into your nation just to cause trouble, raid your traders, attack your PB fleet. It would just be chaos, to tell the truth I am surprised that no one has done it to the pirates yet, I realize they have some large well organised PvP clans, but if a dedicated clan of nationals became Pirates it could seriously disrupt them and lead to internal civil war.

Edit: If they did implement something like this you may as well make it a clan vs clan game, because that's what it would evolve into.

It won't happen to Pirates because they have the means to counter such behavior.

Rather we should be able to set Rules of Engagement on the Clan level. With Pirate always having Enemy as default and fixed setting and Nationals having Ally as default.

It may or may not be going for full out civil war, but some consequences need to be tied to setting a fellow National Clan to Enemy. Maybe denying them access to ports that are controlled by your Clan. Or maybe guns are the best answer.

[Archaos]

5 minutes ago, Lovec1990 said:

OP good luck finding British players willing too protect others. In my experience: i got attacked by one pirate without the clan i ask for help and every single brit player that saw me ran into closest port with ship that could beat a pirate and after i said that battle is over there was not a minute everyone went outside.

With this kind of mentality its not possible too protect british ports. Ok there are clans that protect their own

Are you a member of a clan? There are a lot of people who do not wish to be in a clan and that is fine, but if they then expect protection from clans they should ask themselves why should the clans help them. 

I personally try and help players if I can but I have been caught out a few times. I once saw a player in a 5th  or 4th rate obviously afk not far from KPR green zone a pirate tagged him and I jumped into the fight to assist. The other player then came back and happily sailed off without firing a shot leaving me 1v1 against the pirate and I was in a lesser ship. Maybe he was just bait and I fell for the trap, but it made me very wary about helping random players. I have heard similar problems from others who try to help players out.

Britain may have the largest population, but that also means that they attract the largest number of inexperienced players who will not listen to advice. My advice to you would be to find a clan that do help their members and join them.

[Archaos]

10 minutes ago, Skully said:

It won't happen to Pirates because they have the means to counter such behavior.

Rather we should be able to set Rules of Engagement on the Clan level. With Pirate always having Enemy as default and fixed setting and Nationals having Ally as default.

It may or may not be going for full out civil war, but some consequences need to be tied to setting a fellow National Clan to Enemy. Maybe denying them access to ports that are controlled by your Clan. Or maybe guns are the best answer.

Are you saying that if you found 25 active PvP'ers and transferred to Pirates you could not cause serious issues for Black clan or any other large pirate clan. Imagine turning up at their PB with a 25 man fleet and entering the PB and once the timer runs down a bit so no one else can enter then leave the battle, or attacking their PB fleet outside.

The thing with the pirates on Global is that the biggest clan is from the old PvP2 days, while the Brits and US appear to have a lot of clans that at least some of have come over from PvP1. The ones from PvP1 have tried to retain their former clan make up and end up competing for new members, while new players joining the Pirates or ones jumping from Nationals to the Pirates tend to look to join an established Pirate clan which in turn strengthens the stronger pirate clan. At least that is how it appears to me, but I may be wrong.

[Skully]

3 minutes ago, Archaos said:

Are you saying that if you found 25 active PvP'ers and transferred to Pirates you could not cause serious issues for Black clan or any other large pirate clan. Imagine turning up at their PB with a 25 man fleet and entering the PB and once the timer runs down a bit so no one else can enter then leave the battle, or attacking their PB fleet outside.

BLACK would welcome dealing with 25 active PvP'ers. 

[Archaos]

Just now, Skully said:

BLACK would welcome dealing with 25 active PvP'ers. 

I'm sure they would enjoy the PvP, but it would be at the expense of their global domination fantasies. Would they be as happy when they started losing ports because they were tied up in a civil war? I know some of their players just love the PvP, but they still need access to ship building materials.

[Hodo]

I have a funny feeling that BLACK would switch to a real nation if they were actually forced to be "Pirates" and had these restrictions forced on them.

-Can own no regions or ports. (must operate out of free ports)

-Unable to build any ship yard larger than level 1

-No Nation chat

 

[Iroquois Confederacy]

We know where the real heart of Piracy is:  The Free Tribes.

@Hodo, ever thought about joining...?

Edited July 22, 2017 by Iroquois Confederacy