I'm done

[Hodo]

1 hour ago, Ole Pinelle said:

I guess you forgot, that it takes money to make money and the knowledge and experiecnce how to use the given game mechanics you gathered with your several thousand hours infront of the screen. Tell the guy, who has an 2-4hours sparetime the week (luckily I currently have a silly injury and have more time at hand at the moment, but someone with a real life and hobbies, will not have more time available and they are the guys who make up the money for the developers to be able to sustain the game), how long he will have to make missions to have the starting money required to "Work smart". Maybe you guys should make a tutorial, how to make 2x2 million in 2 days or 600k to 800k in one trip. The newcomer in basic cutter, who is broke since he baught some cannons for his Tbrig, which was sunk on the maiden voyage because he ventured out of KPR for more than a mile.

No offense but this comes back to the old adage, "Dont sail what you cant afford to lose".  

If you put everything you have in one ship, then if it gets lost, sunk or captured you have just gambled away everything.   That is on you, not on the rest of the nation to deal with.   You should know better.  Instead of getting that Trader Brig, get a Trader Lynx, and run without guns a few times.   Hell I can make close to 500k running at 75% cargo capacity on a T-Lynx in 1 trip.  That more than pays for the Lynx ten times over.

[Macjimm]

3 hours ago, DrZoidberg said:

 Most player join to this game for PVP.

I wholeheartedly and completely disagree.  But those players who love only PvP ... Legends (A.K.A. Naval ACTION Competitive E-Sport Battles) is coming.

1 hour ago, Hodo said:

No offense but this comes back to the old adage, "Dont sail what you cant afford to lose".   If you put everything you have in one ship, then if it gets lost, sunk or captured you have just gambled away everything.   That is on you, not on the rest of the nation to deal with. 

This makes so much sense.

[surfimp]

3 hours ago, Ole Pinelle said:

I guess you forgot, that it takes money to make money and the knowledge and experiecnce how to use the given game mechanics you gathered with your several thousand hours infront of the screen. Tell the guy, who has an 2-4hours sparetime the week (luckily I currently have a silly injury and have more time at hand at the moment, but someone with a real life and hobbies, will not have more time available and they are the guys who make up the money for the developers to be able to sustain the game), how long he will have to make missions to have the starting money required to "Work smart". Maybe you guys should make a tutorial, how to make 2x2 million in 2 days or 600k to 800k in one trip. The newcomer in basic cutter, who is broke since he baught some cannons for his Tbrig, which was sunk on the maiden voyage because he ventured out of KPR for more than a mile.

Let's be real, games made for people with 2-4 hours to play per week are going to be found on your mobile phone or on a console. Most PC games of the sort like Naval Action are designed for people for whom PC gaming is their primary hobby and who dedicate more time to gaming than what you've described.

With that said, even playing in only 2hr blocks, you can still progress in Naval Action, it's just going to take a while.

Here's how you can get setup and running as a solo:

1. The lowest level mission pays approximately 9k gold, gives 2 combat marks, and nets around 125 XP (this is the reward for completing the mission plus the gold and XP you get on top of that). That is OK but you can do better if you go after AI Le Gros Ventres, which will pay about 17k gold PLUS whatever you earn from selling their cargo, and can be completed in about the same amount of time. See this thread for details: AI LGV contest. Goal: build up starter capital of approximately 30,000 gold.
    
2. Use the Habor Map in Naval Action Craft to identify ports near your home base that produce Iron and Oak. In the case of the British / KPR, you can get Oak from KPR and you can get Iron from Port Morant. Goal: get ready to produce Hull Repairs, something easy to do with the way Oak & Iron ports are located near all national capital regions, and which will give you a reliable income stream.
    
3. Setup production buildings to produce Oak and Iron. These will cost 10,000 gold each, and you'll probably need to open an outpost as well, which is another 10,000. So your 30,000 gold should cover it, certainly so if going with the British. (Depending on the nation you may need to open two outposts, which will increase the cost by 25k)
    
4. While you wait for your stocks of Iron and Oak to build up and be ready for harvest, go cap a couple more LGVs / NPC traders / missions / whatever, as you'll need some more gold to harvest your materials from your building. Goal: earn 70,000 gold, of which roughly 40,000 will be used to harvest resources, and the rest used to purchase a Traders Lynx (which should be available for around 30,000 - 40,000).
    
5. Use your (unarmed for now) Traders Lynx to haul your materials to your home base. Craft 50 hull repairs. Sell for around 1,000 - 1,200 gold at your nation's capital, which will net you ~70-100% profit (base cost of producing a hull repair is 605 gold / ea).
   
   Protip: check national chat for any reports of pirates / privateers before making this run. Scout it with your Basic Cutter if you want to be extra cautious. Wait till you have a favorable wind direction to make your run - learn the TLynx's best points of sail. It can outrun almost anything except a truly dedicated hunter.

You are now setup with a measure of financial independence. You can repeat steps 4-5 as many times as you like, increasing the number of Hull Repairs produced if you like, until you have as much gold as you feel you need to go to the next step (whatever that is for you).

To be clear, any of the combat missions you're doing until this point are in the Basic Cutter, using the standard 4lb cannons. It's the most efficient tool for gold farming in missions / etc  vs NPCs as there are zero costs involved.

Of course, while you are grinding these NPCs you are also leveling up your character and (if a new player) learning how the combat mechanics work at a fundamental level. You will level up to the 1st rank really quickly and be well on your way to whatever you want to achieve in the game.

Edited July 6, 2017 by Benedict Ahhnold

[Mrdoomed]

45 minutes ago, Benedict Ahhnold said:

Let's be real, games made for people with 2-4 hours to play per week are going to be found on your mobile phone or on a console. Most PC games of the sort like Naval Action are designed for people for whom PC gaming is their primary hobby and who dedicate more time to gaming than what you've described.

With that said, even playing in only 2hr blocks, you can still progress in Naval Action, it's just going to take a while.

Here's how you can get setup and running as a solo:

1. The lowest level mission pays approximately 9k gold, gives 2 combat marks, and nets around 125 XP (this is the reward for completing the mission plus the gold and XP you get on top of that). That is OK but you can do better if you go after AI Le Gros Ventres, which will pay about 17k gold PLUS whatever you earn from selling their cargo, and can be completed in about the same amount of time. See this thread for details: AI LGV contest. Goal: build up starter capital of approximately 30,000 gold.
    
2. Use the Habor Map in Naval Action Craft to identify ports near your home base that produce Iron and Oak. In the case of the British / KPR, you can get Oak from KPR and you can get Iron from Port Morant. Goal: get ready to produce Hull Repairs, something easy to do with the way Oak & Iron ports are located near all national capital regions, and which will give you a reliable income stream.
    
3. Setup production buildings to produce Oak and Iron. These will cost 10,000 gold each, and you'll probably need to open an outpost as well, which is another 10,000. So your 30,000 gold should cover it, certainly so if going with the British. (Depending on the nation you may need to open two outposts, which will increase the cost by 25k)
    
4. While you wait for your stocks of Iron and Oak to build up and be ready for harvest, go cap a couple more LGVs / NPC traders / missions / whatever, as you'll need some more gold to harvest your materials from your building. Goal: earn 70,000 gold, of which roughly 40,000 will be used to harvest resources, and the rest used to purchase a Traders Lynx (which should be available for around 30,000 - 40,000).
    
5. Use your (unarmed for now) Traders Lynx to haul your materials to your home base. Craft 50 hull repairs. Sell for around 1,000 - 1,200 gold at your nation's capital, which will net you ~70-100% profit (base cost of producing a hull repair is 605 gold / ea).
   
   Protip: check national chat for any reports of pirates / privateers before making this run. Scout it with your Basic Cutter if you want to be extra cautious. Wait till you have a favorable wind direction to make your run - learn the TLynx's best points of sail. It can outrun almost anything except a truly dedicated hunter.

You are now setup with a measure of financial independence. You can repeat steps 4-5 as many times as you like, increasing the number of Hull Repairs produced if you like, until you have as much gold as you feel you need to go to the next step (whatever that is for you).

To be clear, any of the combat missions you're doing until this point are in the Basic Cutter, using the standard 4lb cannons. It's the most efficient tool for gold farming in missions / etc  vs NPCs as there are zero costs involved.

Of course, while you are grinding these NPCs you are also leveling up your character and (if a new player) learning how the combat mechanics work at a fundamental level. You will level up to the 1st rank really quickly and be well on your way to whatever you want to achieve in the game.

You just described a job.

[kovah]

https://www.smbc-comics.com/comic/gamification

 

[Hodo]

27 minutes ago, Mrdoomed said:

You just described a job.

What is not said is it takes longer to read that, then to actually do any of that.

You can do everything he said in that guide in about an hour, maybe two.

[Mrdoomed]

53 minutes ago, Hodo said:

What is not said is it takes longer to read that, then to actually do any of that.

You can do everything he said in that guide in about an hour, maybe two.

The time spent is irrelevant.  The point is that in order to even start playing you have a second job doing stupid gathering quests ( way way way more than pre wipe) so you can play. 

I use a Snow so just capturing ai ships loot takes 20 minutes or so each battle to wear them down and loot them and a lgv is out of the question. This is still not the point. The point is for many of us privateer / pirates type who detest large clans and boring usless rvr , the game is just not a game. Its now a job where we must spend 2 hours of setting up ( that's very generous but ill agree with you) just to try and do pvp THEN first pvp battle i exit a fleet of 12 is waiting to gank me NO MATTER how far from a nations "homeland " i am.

No game will survive this and NA and its dead servers prove that. Sorry.

My post patch experience - spend days getting the gold together in order to buy a snow and put guns on it, spend hours looking for a player who doesn't have his own fleet with him or who doesn't run back to base. Finally find and catch someone and win pvp battle.  Exit battle and have a dozen players waiting for me.

I did this for a few weeks before laughing and hanging up the sword again. Now tell me how is this fun ? How is anyone who enjoys playing without a large clan going to find this fun ?

Edited July 6, 2017 by Mrdoomed

[Vllad]

12 minutes ago, Mrdoomed said:

 the game is just not a game. Its now a job

No game will survive this and NA and its dead servers prove that. Sorry.

While I can't claim to know if NA will ever be successful I have seen your same argument about a game being a job with every MMO ever created with very few exceptions. The most successful MMO's ever created where huge time sinks. From UO, EQ to WOW, those games favor those that play it 60 hours a week. Even the light games such as City of Hero's were grinds beyond belief.

Planetside 1 was maybe the only product I can think of that didn't have long grinds?

[Mrdoomed]

11 minutes ago, Vllad said:

While I can't claim to know if NA will ever be successful I have seen your same argument about a game being a job with every MMO ever created with very few exceptions. The most successful MMO's ever created where huge time sinks. From UO, EQ to WOW, those games favor those that play it 60 hours a week. Even the light games such as City of Hero's were grinds beyond belief.

Planetside 1 was maybe the only product I can think of that didn't have long grinds?

Ok you guys are getting hung up on TIME IN GAME and not JOB vs GAME. If you have FUN then 60000 hours chopping virtual wood can be a game but if collecting logs for 500 hours is work then the game is NOT fun and becomes a job.

What successful mmos do is to make the time spent NO MATTER HOW LONG in game be fun reguarless of how you play.

Ive only played mmo since ultima online so i guess i just dont kniw what im talking about. Before you say i just dont understand let me tell you that i thought NA was perfect ftom day one of open world even with no teleport at will. I was considered a hard core fanboy so im not against time sinks or hard gaming just stupid gaming.

Edited July 6, 2017 by Mrdoomed

[Hodo]

7 minutes ago, Mrdoomed said:

The time spent is irrelevant.  The point is that in order to even start playing you have a second job doing stupid gathering quests ( way way way more than pre wipe) so you can play. 

I use a Snow so just capturing ai ships loot takes 20 minutes or so each battle to wear them down and loot them and a lgv is out of the question. This is still not the point. The point is for many of us privateer / pirates type who detest large clans and boring usless rvr , the game is just not a game. Its now a job where we must spend 2 hours of setting up ( that's very generous but ill agree with you) just to try and do pvp THEN first pvp battle i exit a fleet of 12 is waiting to gank me NO MATTER how far from a nations "homeland " i am.

No game will survive this and NA and its dead servers prove that. Sorry.

EVE seems to be doing JUST fine and it has a longer setup time than this.  

And capping AI LGVs is easy in a Snow, it takes at most 30min if you really want to take your time and REALLY wipe out the crew.

But you can cripple a LGV with 3 rakes.  1st rake takes down the sails with chain. 2nd rake takes down rear armor.  3rd rake with grape kills the crew.  Then you prep for boarding and turn it into the wind and cap it.  

30min a most.

[Mrdoomed]

12 minutes ago, Hodo said:

EVE seems to be doing JUST fine and it has a longer setup time than this.  

And capping AI LGVs is easy in a Snow, it takes at most 30min if you really want to take your time and REALLY wipe out the crew.

But you can cripple a LGV with 3 rakes.  1st rake takes down the sails with chain. 2nd rake takes down rear armor.  3rd rake with grape kills the crew.  Then you prep for boarding and turn it into the wind and cap it.  

30min a most.

Well you are just better than me and any of my friends. You and the 39 other super gamers will love this game. Hats off to yall.

 

PS i played eve and loved eve but had to quit when it was sub based and i was getting divorce and in eve i could play how i wanted and didnt get ducked in the ass every time i fought someone by guys who just appeared while i was in a,stasis bubble. But hey im not good like you guys so i cant hang in NA now.

Edited July 6, 2017 by Mrdoomed

[Hodo]

6 minutes ago, Mrdoomed said:

 

Ive only played mmo since ultima online so i guess i just dont kniw what im talking about. Before you say i just dont understand let me tell you that i thought NA was perfect ftom day one of open world even with no teleport at will. I was considered a hard core fanboy so im not against time sinks or hard gaming just stupid gaming.

If you were a UO player, and pre-Trammel then you know what a grind that was.  It was and still is the measuring stick for which ALL MMORPG sandbox games are held to.  

2 minutes ago, Mrdoomed said:

Well you are just better than me and any of my friends. You and the 39 other super gamers will love this game. Hats off to yall.

You said you couldnt take a LGV in a Snow, that is so much crap.  That is one of the best ships to take an LGV in.  Hell I can take them in a Trader Snow, it just takes about 45min to do it.  But you can do it in a Snow in about 20-40min if you get a good tag.  If it were a player I would say, it would be a MUCH harder fight but still very do-able.  

 

I havent ever fought you in game, but I imagine you have some skill as I have seen you around.  I highly doubt you believe half of the steam you're spouting right now.

[Vllad]

21 minutes ago, Mrdoomed said:

Ok you guys are getting hung up on TIME IN GAME and not JOB vs GAME. If you have FUN then 60000 hours chopping virtual wood can be a game but if collecting logs for 500 hours is work then the game is NOT fun and becomes a job.

What successful mmos do is to make the time spent NO MATTER HOW LONG in game be fun reguarless of how you play.

You are the one that brought up that this is a job not me. I am not hung up on it. I guess you would have to define fun since you are an experienced MMO player.

*In EQ camping the same mob for 7 hours trying to get an FBSS or Jboots was not fun.

*In WOW doing 12 hour raids to learn how to kill a single boss or camping grey skellies for cash was not fun.

*In Shadowbane you only killed NPC's for wall money, NOT fun.

*Grinding the same ole daily's in POTBS for cash, NOT fun

*Pounding rocks for hours in EVE, NOT fun.

You name your MMO and I will name your not fun parts of it. Being max level in all these MMO's and just on to the final content was a complete bore in most of those games. That is why people always have a million alts in games like WoW. Leveling up is where most of the content is. I get it, you don't like parts of NA but NA is no different than any other MMO out there. 

Planetside 1, Shattered Galaxy and WWII on-line are the exceptions to the rule not the norm. However their is one key difference from them vs. other MMO's. Those games were just straight up fighting with no econ, cash, items, quest etc.  WWII on-line and Shattered Galaxy were still huge time sinks.

Edited July 6, 2017 by Vllad

[Mrdoomed]

To argue any more is pointless.  Right now there is 900 players across all servers  ( population already falling quickly from post wipe fun) and almost every review on steam is a huge negitive and the overall rating isn't even good anymore.

Ill let the truth of the game now and the cold numbers speak for themselves.  You guys can believe whatever you want snd enjoy the game you like. 

[Cimbi]

15 minutes ago, Vllad said:

You are the one that brought up that this is a job not me. I am not hung up on it. I guess you would have to define fun since you are an experienced MMO player.

*In EQ camping the same mob for 7 hours trying to get an FBSS or Jboots was not fun.

*In WOW doing 12 hour raids to learn how to kill a single boss or camping grey skellies for cash was not fun.

*In Shadowbane you only killed NPC's for wall money, NOT fun.

*Grinding the same ole daily's in POTBS for cash, NOT fun

*Pounding rocks for hours in EVE, NOT fun.

You name your MMO and I will name your not fun parts of it. Being max level in all these MMO's and just on to the final content was a complete bore in most of those games. That is why people always have a million alts in games like WoW. Leveling up is where most of the content is. I get it, you don't like parts of NA but NA is no different than any other MMO out there. 

Planetside 1, Shattered Galaxy and WWII on-line are the exceptions to the rule not the norm. However their is one key difference from them vs. other MMO's. Those games were just straight up fighting with no econ, cash, items, quest etc.  WWII on-line and Shattered Galaxy were still huge time sinks.

I played ww2 online for 6-7 years that game never was time sink.

[Cmdr RideZ]

On 7/3/2017 at 2:23 AM, kitsunelegend said:

Oh and btw? ME has patches/updates every single week. EVERY. SINGLE. WEEK.

Releasing often would indeed and definitely be better than a "MEGA patch".

[surfimp]

42 minutes ago, Mrdoomed said:

Well you are just better than me and any of my friends. You and the 39 other super gamers will love this game. Hats off to yall

Seriously, capping AI LGVs is not hard. I am at best a middling player in Naval Action but I can cap an LGV in around 25min using a Basic Cutter and the full litany of chain / rake / board. Other people do it even faster by simply sailing alongside and sinking the darn thing - the record is just over 7 minutes.

Check the thread, it's very achievable:

For a truly new player (i.e. one who has never played Naval Action before), the first few hours of the game are dedicated to learning to sail, learning to shoot, etc. and I don't think that's so boring at all - I had well over a dozen hours in the game before I even knew it.

Getting setup as I described could only be considered a "Job" if you know exactly what to do and have done it a bunch of times previously (so many times that it's completely boring to do it).  There are certainly other ways to go forward, too, I was just presenting one of the more efficient (in terms of time/effort) ways to do it. It paraphrases some posts by @Remus in the Guides section.

Anyways, I don't know, it's working for me. Since the wipe I've earned millions of gold through a combination of PVP player trader hunting, PVE grinding, trading, and crafting hull and rig repairs for sale in my national port. I have been able to comfortably keep myself in ships as well as dabble in some purchased 5th rates. I've hunted all over the map and have been having a great time. I just got my favorite Privateer sunk last night through some stupid play on my part, so now I'll have to replace it... but it's no worries as I've got the ability to craft my own ships, and a big pot of gold to fall back on if I don't feel like doing that. All through solo play.

TLDR it's quite possible to have a lot of fun still, I don't find myself being held back by anything other than my own suboptimal decision making.

[Vllad]

59 minutes ago, Cimbi said:

I played ww2 online for 6-7 years that game never was time sink.

 

You must be missing the irony of your statement!

[Cimbi]

13 hours ago, Vllad said:

 

You must be missing the irony of your statement!

I have to admit y are right.XD

[Archaos]

17 hours ago, Mrdoomed said:

The time spent is irrelevant.  The point is that in order to even start playing you have a second job doing stupid gathering quests ( way way way more than pre wipe) so you can play. 

I use a Snow so just capturing ai ships loot takes 20 minutes or so each battle to wear them down and loot them and a lgv is out of the question. This is still not the point. The point is for many of us privateer / pirates type who detest large clans and boring usless rvr , the game is just not a game. Its now a job where we must spend 2 hours of setting up ( that's very generous but ill agree with you) just to try and do pvp THEN first pvp battle i exit a fleet of 12 is waiting to gank me NO MATTER how far from a nations "homeland " i am.

No game will survive this and NA and its dead servers prove that. Sorry.

My post patch experience - spend days getting the gold together in order to buy a snow and put guns on it, spend hours looking for a player who doesn't have his own fleet with him or who doesn't run back to base. Finally find and catch someone and win pvp battle.  Exit battle and have a dozen players waiting for me.

I did this for a few weeks before laughing and hanging up the sword again. Now tell me how is this fun ? How is anyone who enjoys playing without a large clan going to find this fun ?

You state that you are a privateer/pirate type player that is not interested in the large clan and boring RvR part of the game, so how do you propose to get players out into the OW so you can prey on them as a pirate? The current system where players have to spend time hauling cargo round the place should bring plenty of opportunities for a player such as yourself. Before the patch there was hardly any need to move goods around as you paid to transport it from freeport to freeport and there was very little need for traders to be in OW.

The guide posted on how to get set up making money should also be an indication to a pirate where to raid shipping and I already know a few pirates who do this quite sucessfully and that is their main way of making money in game. I got caught once with my fleet of 3 trader brigs by a French player and lost one of my trader brigs, as a trader this was an acceptable loss for me as my profit from remaining cargo and from runs where I was not intercepted made up for the loss.

[Lordicious]

This game is dead, they just don't realize it yet. 

[Cimbi]

11 minutes ago, Lordicious said:

This game is dead, they just don't realize it yet. 

Well this is true but i hope they get rid off all the unecesery feature, grind and start doing real content.

[Quineloe]

On 3.7.2017 at 7:08 AM, Macjimm said:

Medieval Engineers?  Seems like an interesting but unrelated comparison.  I don't think that the developers will ever provide players with tools to build stuff in this game.  They seem to be focused on fighting and battles and PvP and competition.  All the graphics and action has been built around combat.

Perhaps we should compare this game to other fighting sail games with lots of action .... or we can enjoy NA the way it is ...

 

30 knots raceboats with machine guns, auto aim and Disney graphics? Hard pass. I'd rather buy a rope and look for a tree than play this mainstream garbage.

[Quineloe]

When they announced the 1 durability change, I expected a full reworking of the economy to adjust to this huge change, a significant decrease in LH for each ship for a start, a reduction in materials required and so on.

I did not expect them to just edit the 5 to a 1 and call it a day.

[z4ys]

5 minutes ago, Quineloe said:

When they announced the 1 durability change, I expected a full reworking of the economy to adjust to this huge change, a significant decrease in LH for each ship for a start, a reduction in materials required and so on.

I did not expect them to just edit the 5 to a 1 and call it a day.

In my opinion it is okay as it is. Captured ships got a market. I captured a pirate ship that was build by a Brit and I sold it to a French who lost it to Dane. 

Capturing ships is better than sinking . And in my opinion it's good this way.