naval no action

[PG Monkey]

1 minute ago, elite92 said:

reduce the map 10x and make all the game instance? (solve ALL the problems)

That would be great

[ironhammer500]

6 minutes ago, elite92 said:

reduce the map 10x and make all the game instance? (solve ALL the problems)

Merge the servers into one, make a offline mode for pve and done

[surfimp]

1 hour ago, Vllad said:

Now if the revenge fleet wants to put a group of Privateers together to beat on you then good for them! Smart play on their part.

Put you know, they just never do that, do they? So instead the plucky Privateer captain gets to laugh as he / she sails away upwind, leaving the revenge fleet in the dust. It's such a fun part of the game. "Oooh your bow chaser almost got me..."

[Slamz]

26 minutes ago, Vernon Merrill said:

Soooo, while I had time to play for about 1.5 hours before I was supposed to take my wife to dinner, INSTEAD what happened was that I spent 3.5 hours constantly getting tagged and escaping before I ran out of rig repairs...  Not only is my wife pissed, but I just lost the ship I just spent 3 days crafting.  

What.

........ what.

I have a suggestion for you which transcends all gaming mechanics discussions. When your wife wants to go to dinner, log out of your game immediately. It is just pixels. You won't even remember this game 5 years from now but now your wife will. (Also never run around in a PvP area in any game 90 minutes before you are supposed to take your wife to dinner.)

[Vllad]

3 minutes ago, Sansón Carrasco said:

Put you know, they just never do that, do they? So instead the plucky Privateer captain gets to laugh as he / she sails away upwind, leaving the revenge fleet in the dust. It's such a fun part of the game. "Oooh your bow chaser almost got me..."

Amen, now Sanson is a Captain who understands soloing in world of Lions. 

[elite92]

1 minute ago, Slamz said:

What.

........ what.

I have a suggestion for you which transcends all gaming mechanics discussions. When your wife wants to go to dinner, log out of your game immediately. It is just pixels. You won't even remember this game 5 years from now but now your wife will. (Also never run around in a PvP area in any game 90 minutes before you are supposed to take your wife to dinner.)

if u dont take to dinner ur wife then her wont take the dinner to you xD

[Vernon Merrill]

Well....  my thought was that they solved the "logging out in front of port" issue via the inability to join PB's for 30 mins...  Please remind me why we shouldnt be able to leave the game when we need to now?

[JeanJacques de Montpellier]

1 hour ago, Prater said:

 

Agreed there.  After I posted that I thought, well, that's not really skill, but magic.  Skill should be player knowledge vs magic knowledge.

This is off topic, but maybe modules need to be rethought.  Modules are changes you make to the ship, that change it to your liking, but impact it in other areas.  Maybe each module should have a clear negative and positive.  Sort of like how Speed Trim increased speed but decreased hp and turning.  This way a completely balanced ship is a ship without modules, and this is a valid ship to use in pvp.  It is the default ship for that type.  If you want something else, say more speed, it will have a negative impact on a different stat.  If you want more hp, it will cost you in something else.  That is true modification right there and hopefully decreases OP setups.  Every modification should have a positive impact on something and a negative impact on something else.

Yeah, no bonuses.

The only bonus is the player!

[Sureshot]

1 minute ago, Vernon Merrill said:

Well....  my thought was that they solved the "logging out in front of port" issue via the inability to join PB's for 30 mins...  Please remind me why we shouldnt be able to leave the game when we need to now?

NA is only for full time Captains m8, deal with it. 

[Vernon Merrill]

2 minutes ago, Vllad said:

Amen, now Sanson is a Captain who understands soloing in world of Lions. 

Not true at all...  If anyone wants you bad enough, they will make the circle big enough that a few ships will stay upwind from you...  Even one or two broadsides of chain will doom you.   The reason most small ships dont encounter this (and I love my privateer) is that its not worth the bother...  But dont kid yourself into thinking this isnt possible.

[Daguse]

4 hours ago, admin said:

Wait. You forgot about relaxing times on the pve server. You can even capture Ocean first rate from an NPC.
Maybe you should stop pretending that you really want a pvp world where your actions can matter.

 

[surfimp]

16 minutes ago, Slamz said:

What.

........ what.

I have a suggestion for you which transcends all gaming mechanics discussions. When your wife wants to go to dinner, log out of your game immediately. It is just pixels. You won't even remember this game 5 years from now but now your wife will. (Also never run around in a PvP area in any game 90 minutes before you are supposed to take your wife to dinner.)

Or keep it up, and you won't have to worry about taking your wife to dinner... because you won't have a wife to take to dinner.

[surfimp]

13 minutes ago, Vernon Merrill said:

Not true at all...  If anyone wants you bad enough, they will make the circle big enough that a few ships will stay upwind from you...  Even one or two broadsides of chain will doom you.   The reason most small ships dont encounter this (and I love my privateer) is that its not worth the bother...  But dont kid yourself into thinking this isnt possible.

Sure, it's possible. But I find big ship captains to be terrible shots against small, fast moving targets with a good command of the best points of sail for their, and more importantly, their opponents', ships.

So, yeah, it might happen. But it hasn't happened yet. And I live behind enemy lines.

EDIT: I also have enough sense to keep moving my base of operations frequently, so I don't become too predictable and easy to intercept

Edited June 17, 2017 by Sansón Carrasco

[Vernon Merrill]

While losing my Connie was painful, honestly the worst part about current mechanics is that punishes those who are what the game supposedly needs the most...  players who actively populate the OW in search of PvP...

My personal rule is that I NEVER re-tag a player who's been able to escape...  with the only exception being those who are rude/talk crap during the battle.  

In my mind, escaping the battle translates to "getting away" in history.

[ironhammer500]

18 minutes ago, Daguse said:

 

You must have very short eye sight.

[Sureshot]

 

When people try to tell me revenge fleets are "realistic" :[

[Tenet]

11 hours ago, admin said:

We did not give any excuses and there are no selective examples.
There are ports on the map players WILL defend and will defend furiously. If no-one will attack them all port battles will be empty.
If nations declare world peace scenario and never attack each other - its a sandbox. Is not it?

You made all weapons NUCLEAR WEAPONS the first two nations to use them will be the LOSERS to the 3rd and 4th. 

When all weapons are NUCLEAR, when cost of recovery is sufficiently high, there is NO WAR. 

The peace is not because of Sandbox. The peace is because of your decisions.

 

We had 5+3 dock slots that each could hold 5x fighting ships each at 5th rate. 

We had total of 25 to 40 lives prepared via crafting or capturing before we go to war.

You reduced it to 1 durability per ship. OK. 

You said you reduce cost of ship by 5 times:  FALSE. Real human Hours cost increased! 

Our docks now effectively hold 1/5th of the LIVES we previously had.

To Reload each life we now have to sail 30-45 minutes with EACH ship to reach Front lines, depending on nation, and if we die we have to sail back, and sail out again.

The prices for ships are still prohibitive in LH compared to their Rate, particularly for 5th and 6th rate ships used in PvP. 

All of this combined makes each level of PvP in the game have nuclear-war level costs - with only the Victors surviving and losers driven to leave the game completely.

The result is that the only PvP that happens is focused in small areas of map where proximity and stability is sufficient and Nations previously considering warfare are holding back because the potential costs are too high. 

Edited June 17, 2017 by Tenet

[JeanJacques de Montpellier]

51 minutes ago, Blackjack Morgan said:

I don't know what shadowbane is but my guess is it does not have two completely different timescales existing at once? In other words, as many have pointed out, the OW time compression is completely different than what we have inside the battle instance. If OW did not have time compression than the scenario you describe would be fine. It is no different than saying you are 12 hour sailing distance away when a fight begins....if it actually took you 12 hours to sail there than sure I would have no problem with you joining that fight. But that simply is not the case. So, how in the world does anyone find it even remotely realistic that a fight that might take 30-60 minutes should grant people who otherwise could be multiple days away an ability to join that fight or even camp outside of it? That is the part that I struggle to understand. Everyone wants "realism" but this scenario is pure fantasy....it's like literally having a warp drive you can use to bend the space time continuum. In that regard it can't be justified. 

You're saying the right things.
The OW / battle rooms problem was my first concern when i saw them. I admit it is a fascinating but ambitious and risky project. Several compression times, ROE and exit to ow. We have tried different solutions. I think practically all the players who think of us as a war game on saling ships think the best (but not perfect) system is the double circle and the send to port for the exit. Surely this is not totally realistic, but it works and allows realistic battles in numbers and fun.

That said, solution less daring and perhaps more playable and to make the rooms. Rooms or "maps" with different scenarios and objectives, and their appropriate ship-set, eg:
-attack a port
-great battle between SoL
-attack a convoy of merchants
-etc
-etc
Obviously creating rooms with a large, beautiful environment/atmopher that allows you to position, engage or eventually hang up.

Some  necessary considerations
Reading some comments from some players, I felt a bit embarrassed. In addition to a complete lack of knowledge of naval matter of the period, there is also a desire to get an idea of reality based on an alpha game with any problems of mechanisms like NA. Revenge Fleet, oh bordel!. @King of Crowns, do you think Surprise was sent to hunting Acheron,in the movie, as a revenge fleet? Among the various tasks of the frigates there was both hunting for merchants (what the Acheron did) and hunting other frigates. Finding other ships, as rightly said by some users, was not impossible. A good captain could do so, perhaps following the enemy's prey, imagining possible routes or hiding of the enemy, calling for long intercept course, and not always the hunt was good.
Revenge fleets are shits born of a bad mechanism. An arcade thing for very poor players.

A historic example of hunting between frigates, Essex Vs Phoebe: On 18 March 1813 Phoebe left Portsmouth with a convoy for Brazil and the East Indies. On 6 July Phoebe, the sloop-of-war Cherub, and Racoon sailed from Rio de Janeiro around Cape Horn to the Juan Fernández Islands. There, Racoon continued on to the fur trading outpost of Fort Astoria. Phoebe and Cherub remained to search for the 36-gun USS Essex. Hillyar was under orders to capture the Essex "at all costs". On 8 February 1814 Phoebe and Cherub arrived at Valparaíso, a neutral port, where Essex and her prizes were anchored. Having trapped Essex in the harbour, Hillyar waited six weeks for her to come out and thwarted all of the efforts of her captain, David Porter, to escape. Eventually, on 28 March, Porter attempted to break out of the harbour. A squall took off his main topmast and he attempted to return to harbour but Phoebe and Cherub drove Essex into a nearby bay and defeated her in a short engagement. Phoebe and Cherub also captured Essex's tender, Essex Junior, the ex-British whaler Atlantic. (Wikipedia)

Another consideration, so much effort to have one dura ships(for do a sense of captured ships) and now we sink captured ships just to have the PVP marks. I do not know what to say....

[Tenet]

I want OW PvP with 5-15 minutes of sailing to "reload" after a ship loss, not 45-60. 

I want Dockyard Slots = Previous Number of Lives = 25 to 40 ( 5 to 8 slots times 5 durability each). 

I want a way to send 5 ships, 5th rate or below warships, at once to a remote national port to prepare for PvP. If this needs to happen in OW, then allow anyone to "tow" 4 ships of 5th rate tier that don't participate in combat if engaged (severely undermanned prize crews). 

The suggestion to turn the game into a WoT style lobby game with only instances is not sustainable.

The reason people played WoT was for the RvR, the Clan Wars Map, and once that was sufficiently broken a MASS EXODUS occurred, the Clan Rivalry forums got shut down due to inactivity of actual diplomacy posts, and most people no longer care to login. 

The reason people still play EvE is for the PvP and RvR that gets promoted in low-sec. The game wouldn't be alive if it was just instanced battles. 

Edited June 17, 2017 by Tenet

[Daguse]

3 hours ago, ironhammer500 said:

You must have very short eye sight.

Probably!

[Neptune]

So I've done this list, if anything to add please do.

5 hours ago, Neptune said:

Revenge Fleet Cons

1. Unrealistic
2. Teleport from the otherside of the map
3. Sail to your battle location without being seen
4. Camp your battle location without being seen
5. Surround your whole location without being seen
6. Can keep you tied up for hours without having any real way to log off the game
7. Abuse speed by retagging so heavy ships are faster than light ones
8. Makes you escape more than 1 time, could be 5+ times
9. Punish players for PvP

Revenge Fleet Pros

1. Gives defender easy revenge
2. Do not need to worry about finding the enemy
3. Open world speed time compression gives you an advantage
4. Open world being a seperate instance gives you an advantage of invisibility so you can surround enemy without being seen and coordinate an attack
5. You can make your ships faster by retagging so slower ones can catch up to enemy speed ships

Now Pros and Cons of teleport to freindly port. Not suggesting to bring this back, just comparing. You decide which has less ways to abuse and is better for the game.

Exit To Freindy Port Pros

1. No more unrealistic escaping more than once, when you escape you escape
2. Repeat tagging is removed, you do not need to worry about having 5 hours to go out and look for 1 good PvP
3. Revenge fleet can no longer sit on your battle location by teleporting from the other side of the map
4. Revenge fleet can't surround you on open world anymore
5. Revenge fleet can no longer abuse speeds by tagging multiple times to make slower ships faster
6. Gives players a necessity of life mechanic to play this game so they can log off after a long fight
7. Players who try to create PvP and stir up enemy to make them come attack them in their waters will not be punished by having no way to escape
8. Teleport from free port and teleport to capital on OW removed, If you want to sail back to your own waters you will need to get out of the free port near enemy capital

Exit To Freindly Port Cons

1. Teleporting to exit freindly port is unrealistic but if you escape you escape, this simulates it. We also have teleport to national outposts so that is unrealistic too if you are making that argument.
2. Players can gank and teleport away but they would of escaped anyway by the time revenge fleets got there. Any revenge fleet would of found out about such a battle days later. Now if you attack enemy in their waters you know they will be coming to your doorstep to cause havoc for attacking them, possibly making them angry enough to take a region. This is how it should be.
3. Revenge ganks removed

I think we should of tested exit to freindly port with more people online and removing teleporting when tagging AI. You can't teleport to free port anymore and capital teleports were also removed. This changes a lot, but I know that ship has sailed, But this is just a comparison per say.

Edited June 17, 2017 by Neptune
Spelling error

[Vllad]

29 minutes ago, Neptune said:

So I've done this list, if anything to add please do.

 

I already made a list earlier in this thread. 

[Cmdr RideZ]

Revenge gank is splitting us to two parties pretty much.

1. Wants to sail to enemy waters, gank a ship and teleport back to friendly port.

2. Wants to be able to do something if there are enemies in their waters.  Protect and help their friends.

There is also an issue with tagging, as it may make it last for hours.  (time sink)

Probably has to be some kind of compromise.

[Neptune]

Well it's split us into 2 categories you are right.

1. One side thinks that teleporting half the map and revenge ganking is realistic, they would rather have easy revenge with the current system then going to enemy water to attack traders/warships or attacking a region to get revenge.. So many abuses with it, far more than exit to freindly port.
2. One side thinks that once you escape you escape. Which is how it was back then, Captains didn't need to escape twice. If exit to freindly port is a compromise to get around it but still simulates how ships would escape before a revenge fleet found out then so be it.

I just think we need a middle ground, this system is so bad right now.

Edited June 17, 2017 by Neptune

[Grundgemunkey]

people who wanted the game to be realistic have got there wish ,,,, as a result as in real life there is very little action ... those with dont want to risk their position of power and what they have ,,,those that dont have cannot afford to risk what little they have and end up with nothing