naval no action

[Iroquois Confederacy]

Just now, Snoopy said:

How would your privateering go if there were no other players to steal from?
Mind you "stealing" is meant positively here as it is historically accurate and should be thing, but clearly it only works with others hauling stuff and doing the grind.

I mean, I made my own vessel.  I made the journey to get any special woods I may or may not have needed.  I build all the various buildings necessary to equip it.

I then set sail with, I think, 100k on hand leftover.  I now sit at about 800K, mostly from selling goods to my fence or combat rewards.  I just looked over my list.  In three days, I've hit 12 trade vessels.  Do you know how many of them were carrying crafting goods?  Two.  100 coal, and 120 iron ore.  The rest have been doing the money runs.

I don't know how much sympathy I should be having for people just grinding money, when you simply don't need that much of it.

[Christendom]

1 hour ago, admin said:

Merge all servers into pve and declare world peace?

how about merge them all into PVP Global and have a huge melee?

[admin]

17 minutes ago, Hodo said:

Sometimes I wonder what your plan is for this game, or are you just winging it until Naval Action Legends comes out?

Naval Action Legends addresses the important problem. It removes non combat elements and open world. 
Players who love hardcore challenge and the caribbean will stay in the caribbean
Players who hate sailing and hunting and ganking will play in the legends

Its like coca cola light and normal coca cola - we satisfy both crowds without compromising (tainting) both products with features that those audiences don't want

A better analogy would be - vegetarian curry, and beef curry. No restaurant mixes them to satisfy both vegetarians and beef lovers. We tried and wasted some time doing that. Now everyone will get their own perfect dish.
 

[surfimp]

10 minutes ago, Iroquois Confederacy said:

I don't know how much sympathy I should be having for people just grinding money, when you simply don't need that much of it.

Honestly you only need enough money to get a fir/fir 7th rate (Privateer, Cutter, Pickle, whatever) and some cannons. From there, you can effectively begin hunting player traders and the world is your oyster.

PS don't forget the fleet perks!

[Hethwill]

2 minutes ago, Sansón Carrasco said:

Honestly you only need enough money to get a fir/fir 7th rate (Privateer, Cutter, Pickle, whatever) and some cannons. From there, you can effectively begin hunting player traders and the world is your oyster.

PS don't forget the fleet perks!

A Pickle at the right place at the right time can be worth a 1st rate not being built.

[admin]

1 minute ago, Hodo said:

So in a few months after release you will have 2 dead games instead of 1.

But that isnt the point of this thread sorry for going off-topic. 

 

According to some users this game have been dead for like 12 months now. 

[surfimp]

3 minutes ago, Hodo said:

Well until they put 26 guns on a trader snow, or 18 guns on a trader brig.  

The first time you run next to one of those and they fire your fir ship will dissolve like a slug with salt.

Yes but who will fire the guns when the crew has all been killed by my stern raking, and they have no speed to turn because no sails due to my chaining?

I do not make a habit of offering free broadside shots to my prey. At least not until their crews have been whittled down enough that I'm beginning my boarding action.

Edited June 16, 2017 by Sansón Carrasco

[surfimp]

Just now, Hodo said:

I do a lot of hunting in a Privateer, and Fir/Fir isnt needed, you can build it fast enough to run down or run from anything out of other woods.

Then the Copper Plating on my fir/fir Privateer wasn't needed, either. Nor the studding sails. But dammnit I like it that way. Sailing the OW at 30kts closehauled is a helluva drug.

[Lordicious]

1 hour ago, admin said:

Make all ships cost 1 peso? Then everyone will sail a santisima. Anywhere in between someone will be unhappy. 

You have to understand this about RVR.

Everything is out there to kill you. You can lose most of the land.  You will have trouble progressing sometimes
A world where sinking is a traumatizing experience, but you have to try and push through
The difficulty comes not from the difficulty for the sake of difficulty - but from the design philosophy 
Loss in video games we take for granted for many years now , but Naval Action is unique in this regard
Loss and failure are designed to give you that feeling of struggle and triumph 
Loss does not kill you - but brings you closer and closer to giving up, to purify your character
Some players would say - wow its too difficult - and they are right! It is too difficult for some people. 

One day you struggle for so long that you give up completely, but because you don't lose your player and skill, some players don't lose hope, gather players around you, you build a fleet, you practice, you learn to fight better, you overcome and start succeeding.
You triumph by destroying the enemy that was terrorizing your nation for so long and you win the game and retire. And then new leaders come and take your place.

The game does not dumb down the conquest for the sake of so called mass market (brigs with rams)
It does its own thing regardless of whether some people will be turned off and in doing so it becomes something unique and valuable and pure.

There are just some tweaks needed to reduce the time required to rebuild 

Yes. The leader has not been born yet - the leader who can gather 30-50 people around him and turn 1 region into the empire.

Game is missing a lot of tools that would benefit in what you are saying. We don't even have normal group management tool and you are saying gather 50 people. Maybe in another life we would be able to.  

Don't get me wrong, but how can you gather 50 people when all of them don't even have money to sail build an outpost and get a pvp ship? When all they do is fleet to make some coin. 

You clearly need to relax some numbers and rules before even thinking about Leaders and Empires. Right now all we see are beggars asking for coins on docks. 

 

Edited June 16, 2017 by Lord Delicious

[Red Jack Walker]

+1 to the opening post by Alakrana. That's the truth: too many hours needed to grind xp/gold via Pve, Pvp costs are damn too high (repairs for example) and its only purpose is to farm Pvp marks. Forced exit to OW means revenge fleet galore...30 seconds invisibility it's an absolute joke...3mins timer to join battles with no penalty means "ganking fest". Last but not the least, Conquest is almost dead (and please don't say it's because we have all the resources needed to craft..). Result: game is now dominated by ganking squads that want just to sunk noobs to get Pvp marks...and people who have to do a lot of Pve in order to sustain any attempt to a regular Pvp. Just a question: is it that the Game you wanted? Is it working as intended? Do we still need a dedicated Pve server when Pve is now a huge part of time spent playing Naval Action?

Edited June 16, 2017 by Red Jack Walker

[Lordicious]

28 minutes ago, admin said:

According to some users this game have been dead for like 12 months now. 

For such a big world that NA has I would say it's close to truth. It runs on last wave of fans and hardcore pvpers. I really hope that next 'big' reasonable patch can bring some people back and revive this game. 

Edited June 16, 2017 by Lord Delicious

[admin]

4 minutes ago, Red Jack Walker said:

..and people who have to do a lot of Pve in order to sustain any attempt to a regular Pvp. 

What is regular pvp to your opinion? What do you mean by regular pvp? 

[Lordicious]

11 minutes ago, admin said:

What is regular pvp to your opinion? What do you mean by regular pvp? 

Regular pvp

-I am not afraid to go pvp

-Cost to go pvp can be restored withing few hours

-When I sink in battle I still get rewarded

-I can invest money and purchase insurance and I will not be afraid to take my expensive ship to pvp

-After sinking players/ npc fleets I can get a nice loot and rare drops 

-I can passive sail to my designated port while I am offline, so when I log in tomorrow I can pvp there

-I can use group search tool to easily form a pvp group

-I can easily manage my 12 guys group and assign group leaders when I leave. 

-PvP zones are clearly visible on world map, so my group won't waste all day (heard stories of people sailing for hours to find out other team already log off, some quit the game). 

there is more... 

Edited June 16, 2017 by Lord Delicious

[Neptune]

The worst thing that can ever happen in a PvP game is when people start to develop the mindset that they are not going to PvP unless they are absolutely sure they are going to win. Because some don't want to go back to PVE grinding to get back in to PvP. I haven't had a problem with replacing ships yet, but I'm sure some have judging by the forum. People are less willing to fight when it costs so much to replace a ship. You see before we made a lot of gold from PvP, so you could sustain yourself from just doing PvP. You could once PvP knowing that if you lost a ship it wouldn't hurt so much and you could get right back into the action. Now people seem to only want to PvP when they are 100% sure they are going to win. This is just brutal, because It never use to be like that. Make it so you can sustain yourself just from PvPing. And I'm not talking 6-7th rates. PvP battles are always better when you know you can replace a ship, it is more fun and people are more willing to do even battles without having the mindset of 100% win or no PvP.

[admin]

17 minutes ago, Lord Delicious said:

For such a big world that NA has I would say it's close to truth. It runs on last wave of fans and hardcore pvpers. I really hope that next 'big' reasonable patch can bring some people back and revive this game. 

Check the Richard Garriot's (the guy who created ultima online) game called Shroud of Avatar done by like 50-100 people (compared to our 10) to put things in perspective. Or maybe check other sailing games on steam.

There is nothing to revive the game is still in development.

And despite being in development it is one of the most successful indie mmo's on steam mate. 
Here are top 10 MMOs on steam based on average hours.
 

We know that player numbers will jump after european and asian languages localizations. All will be fine.
 

[surfimp]

7 minutes ago, Neptune said:

The worst thing that can ever happen in a PvP game is when people start to develop the mindset that they are not going to PvP unless they are absolutely sure they are going to win. Because some don't want to go back to PVE grinding to get back in to PvP.

With respect: people don't PVP because they're afraid to have to do PVE grinding to replace PVP losses.

What, then, are they doing while not PVPing?

PVE grinding.

It doesn't make sense.

[Neptune]

1 minute ago, Sansón Carrasco said:

With respect: people don't PVP because they're afraid to have to do PVE grinding to replace PVP losses.

What, then, are they doing while not PVPing?

PVE grinding.

It doesn't make sense.

You lose a ship in PvP and you need gold to replace it what are you going to do?

PvP pays poorly compared to trading and PVE. So what are you going to do in reality? Are you going to go back out and potentially lose another ship, make nothing off of it or are you going to play the safe game and do PVE missions? hmm? Yeah that's what I thought. PvP needs to be self sustaining, shouldn't need to rely on PVE or trading to keep doing PVP on PVP servers.

[Baptiste Gallouédec]

I don't think it entirely the game's fault if everyone just grind and focus on pve on pvp servers, naval action is a sandbox with most of the guilds focused on competition instead of rp/casual,. If most guilds decide to hide until they have full fitted Ocean fleets, they can, and nothing will happen. Same for pvpers waiting to get fitted-5knowledge-bowfigure, copperplated-Surprises

 

 

Money is so easy to get seriously, you can't blame the ship cost or the one dura, if you loose a frigate every day.

Build a mine of silver/gold/tobacco/coal who know, and each day you can just print money. No money for a building or to pay the production cost ? Look what trading ressource is on your port and where you can sell it at the best price not too far. If you don't want to take risk, do one pve mission or cap an ai trader and you should have enough.

If you loose a trinco per day, maybe you should just join a guild/clan large enough, they will have no problem building you one for free every single time.

 

Arranged PB is just due to the new CM mecanic having been implemented after the wipe, maybe they should have done a second wipe after this patch, and forbid entirely arranged pb.

 

What else could force nation to fight pb ? Ports stopping to give marks after one week ? Ports not switching nations but contested pb raids giving marks ?

 

 

[surfimp]

2 minutes ago, Neptune said:

You lose a ship in PvP and you need gold to replace it what are you going to do?

PvP pays poorly compared to trading and PVE. So what are you going to do in reality? Are you going to go back out and potentially lose another ship, make nothing off of it or are you going to play the safe game and do PVE missions? hmm? Yeah that's what I thought. PvP needs to be self sustaining, shouldn't need to rely on PVE or trading to keep doing PVP on PVP servers.

Last night I captured two player Trader Brigs and sank one player-owned Lynx. I had to replace a handful of crew and pay maybe 1,000 gold for repairs total across all three victories. Between the cargoes and the ships, I earned enough to replace my Privateer and its cannons two times over.

Last week I capped a player Trader Brig with a Sealed Bottle. The net prize (ship, cargo, shipwreck) was worth upwards of 300,000 gold.

In fairness, I spent dozens of hours trying to figure out my preferred hunting zones, so my ROI per hour invested is lower than it would have been if I'd focused solely on PVE or trading. But the point remains - I am earning enough to support myself in my solo, clan-less, PVP-focused playstyle.

[Thonys]

2 hours ago, admin said:

Is not it the goal of any war-game? 

huh, which nation is ruined?

ahh ,oke, the dutch right,,,,  no gold/ no silver /no coal /no live oak/ no white oak /and other commodities 

no players left ,(50 % of the prewipe active player base left the server in just 2 weeks now..and that is not only because of the cm debacle (actually negotiable expoits,... there is more, like war supplies and the list can be longer if i knew them all, ) 

only wooden shoes....from fir... are available now,  well   i call it a good job actually...ruining your own game....for us ..

i see the other wipe coming in X months, and that is not the final one also.

i begin to wonder what some persons historical background is or to who you listen to ...game wise (if it is the russian nation, well  than  you are screwed big[a Marc is german coin a rubel is Rus and yes  silver was the currency  they paid for their drawings of ships also called now bleuprints )

 we tell you stuff and mistakes for over months now...

sometimes a player base does not like/.. what you code..becouse it misses logic, like having no dutch ships in the game ,but who cares ,the players leave, and the nation is ruined already.

before it     even       starts....

 

[Neptune]

3 minutes ago, Sansón Carrasco said:

Last night I captured two player Trader Brigs and sank one player-owned Lynx. I had to replace a handful of crew and pay maybe 1,000 gold for repairs total across all three victories. Between the cargoes and the ships, I earned enough to replace my Privateer and its cannons two times over.

Last week I capped a player Trader Brig with a Sealed Bottle. The net prize (ship, cargo, shipwreck) was worth upwards of 300,000 gold

Not everyone likes to hunt traders, they like to hunt warships. Frigates are usually the most common ships used in PvP, once you get there just try replacing one of those as easily when you aren't hunting traders. Try losing a frigate after every battle to a revenge gank that is impossible to escape. It adds up in a hurry.

[monk33y]

I feel bad for the Dutch and British captains. Having hundreds of ports is useless unless you own key resources!! 

Something about a river and crying comes to mind! But nevermind

[Cmdr RideZ]

1 hour ago, admin said:

A better analogy would be - vegetarian curry, and beef curry. No restaurant mixes them to satisfy both vegetarians and beef lovers. We tried and wasted some time doing that. Now everyone will get their own perfect dish.

I would like to have a mix.

Arena is repeating itself a lot.  This wont keep me going.

Arena, you just fight, all day long similar fights.  It is also missing purpose in the long run.

OW HC craft/trade is taking too much attention from action.  There is a high change this wont keep me going.

OW has better battles, every battle is different, and there is that small amount of purpose that affects to everything.

 

The game is not that bad really, it has just "couple" things...

1. Repair kits force you to do craft/trade all the time.  We should be able to buy these from vendor.  The earlier implementation was more arcade, but it had better playability.  We could still craft repair kits and those would be cheaper than PvE repair kits.  But repair kits should not be really that expensive.  Or then, remove repair kits from the game, even that would be better than what we have atm.  Or make those usable only after battle in OW.  Many things you can consider, but continuous need for repair kits and crafting those is boring.  Sure, some can capture those from enemies, but there are people who cannot and that is not fun.

2. Gear bonuses are insanely high.  Make those small, so that a casual with not optimal ship is still competitive.  HC Grinders will get their small edge, but that would be just a small edge.

3. Taxing resource buildings is far better than pension, as a reward from control.  These need human interaction, someone has to pay, or you get nothing.  Money sink included, not possible to exploit.

4. Conquest marks, there are many ways to probably fix.  Probably makes no sense that a nation has to first capture a port to start earning these.  You can basically start building competitive ships after you have captured a port.  Only minimal percentage of players like shallow water ships, not an excuse.

4.1. Conquest marks, maybe these provide you materials that you can get in other ways as well.  And idea to think about.  For example a stack of Coal.

4.2. CMarks could be also something that clans earn, and not the players.  Often people like to build something together in games, this could be one option to consider.

5. EVE could be 100 times more popular if its PvP would not be pure ganking.  I am pretty sure there are way more people who do not like pure ganking than people who like it.

6. Ganking is an issue most probably.

6.1. Demasting was supporting ganking.  3vs12, if masts are strong those 3 have way better change to survive.  Demasting is probably still supporting ganking, but not that much any more.

6.2. Repair kits are supporting ganking as well.  You have to hit and run back to port, as you really cannot carry that many repair kits before your ships performance goes bad.

6.3. Repair kits, as big fleets can continuously repair their ships.  Very hard for small fleets to survive.  Supports ganking indeed.

6.4. Economy, that all is expensive, is supporting ganking.  None dares to take hard fights, as everyone is scared to lose their ship.

6.5. Grind, more hours you put in the game to earn your ship, more it hurts, less you sail it. -> Ganking

6.6. Revenge gank, it can be that if the initial gank would not cause that high losses, or if revenge ganking the gankers would not cause that high loses for them.  It actually could be that none would like to wait 70 minutes in OW, just to revenge for someone.  Not sure if 70 minutes is even that long time for many.  Many seem to like to chat in a ring, waiting that gankers finish their dinner and login back to game.

6.7. Grind, people have to sail all kind of weird ships, even the bad ones.  I am sure they will be always nice targets for gankers.  You could maybe decrease XP requirements for those slots, X%.

7. You never wanted to test automatic BR balancer for OW PvP.  Why not?  Leave battle open for weaker side until more or less balance is reached.  You could even give + X% more for defender.  You never wanted to test this?  I think this would have been pretty good option to test.

7.1. If carebears can join to defend their friend to balance the battle.  Not sure if revenge ganks would be needed after that.

7.2. If someone is revenge ganked, at least the guys can ask help, and counter gank the revenge gank (Make it even).

7.3. Why you never wanted to test this?  I asked you to test this multiple times?

8. Give better rewards for people who fight vs way bigger BR rates.  Can be just gold even, nothing so special that exploiters would just exploit it like no tomorrow.  This was asked million times, never tested?

9. ...

 

The game is gankfest.  If EVE like gankfest game would be good, EVE would be far more popular.  I would immediately start playing EVE if its PvP would be competitive.

Question: Who thinks it is interesting to watch Kindergarten Ice Hockey team playing vs NHL all stars?

Answer: EVE players

 

Everything affects to everything, that is why OW is always going to be more interesting place than an arena.  I recommend that you think a bit these relations.  Shame if all that work you did is simply trashed.  Kinda sad.

Edited June 16, 2017 by Cmdr RideZ

[surfimp]

Just now, Neptune said:

Not everyone likes to hunt traders, they like to hunt warships. Frigates are usually the most common ships used in PvP, once you get there just try replacing one of those as easily when you aren't hunting traders. Try losing a frigate after every battle to a revenge gank that is impossible to escape. It adds up in a hurry.

To be clear, I can crew Frigates and can afford them, too. But as you note, they are expensive and often have trouble escaping revenge fleets. Whereas my Privateer has none, and in fact I relish the experience of dodging the sheepdogs. It tremendously adds to my enjoyment of the game.

The game offers many tools to perform jobs, as players we can find the one that suits our whimsy. I am rank 7 but will probably never sail a ship larger than a 5th rate, and honestly, have zero interest even in 6th rates until the Rattlesnake comes back as a craftable ship. I am happy. There is more to Naval Action than sailing square riggers, but many players fail to think outside the RVR, port battle box. There is so much more on offer in the margins.

[admin]

Just now, Hodo said:

The current OW combat is broken no one is going to seriously engage in any REAL PVP as long as payouts are crap and PVE pays better.  

pvp payout is a lot better - if you win - you take a ship and guns