Ship Upgrade Knowledge Routesknowledge

[Black Spawn]

27 minutes ago, The Red Duke said:

Thank you.

So, summing it up.

All ships have 3 permanent and 2 knowledge slots. And can be used with no restraints...but...

To expand knowledge possibility and increase amount of slots ( up to 5 knowledge ) I notice two veins, a more flight cruiser type of vessels, up to the super frigate Constitution, with roots on the privateer and the pickle as root leading up to the ships of the line.

Thought so too. Constitution and Ocean/Santi might be the two trees:

LOcean

LOcean | UpgradeModulesCount 5

Slot 1: None & XP: ?
Slot 2: Needs  St. Pavel (Slot 4)
Slot 3: Needs  Bucentaure (Slot 4)
Slot 4: Needs  Victory (Slot 5)
Slot 5: None & XP: ?
|-------->Victory (Slot: 3): Needs St. Pavel (Slot 4)
|-------->Bucentaure (Slot: 3): Needs St. Pavel (Slot 4)
|--|-------->St. Pavel (Slot: 3): Needs Bellona (Slot 4)
|--|------------------>Bellona (Slot: 3): Needs Agamemnon (Slot 5)
|--|--|------------------------>Agamemnon (Slot: 3): Needs Frigate (Slot 5)
|--|--|--|------------------------------>Frigate (Slot: 3): Needs Cerberus (Slot 4)
|--|--|--|--|------------------------------>Cerberus (Slot: 3): Needs Snow (Slot 3)
|--|--|--|--|------------------------------>Cerberus (Slot: 4): Needs Brig (Slot 4)
|--|--|--|--|--|------------------------------------>Snow (Slot: 3): Needs Brig (Slot 3)
|--|--|--|--|--|--|------------------------------------>Brig (Slot: 3): Needs Pickle (Slot 3)
|--|--|--|--|--|--|--|------------------------------------>Pickle (Slot: 3): Needs Basic Cutter (Slot 3)

Constitution

Constitution | UpgradeModulesCount 5

Slot 1: None & XP: ?
Slot 2: None & XP: ?
Slot 3: Needs  Endymion (Slot 4)
Slot 4: Needs  Trincomalee (Slot 5)
Slot 5: None & XP: ?
|-------->Endymion (Slot: 3): Needs Trincomalee (Slot 4)
|--|------------>Trincomalee (Slot: 3): Needs Surprise (Slot 4)
|--|--|------------------>Surprise (Slot: 3): Needs Renommee (Slot 4)
|--|--|--|------------------------>Renommee (Slot: 3): Needs Mercury (Slot 4)
|--|--|--|--|------------------------------>Mercury (Slot: 3): Needs Privateer (Slot 3)
|--|--|--|--|--|------------------------------------>Privateer (Slot: 3): Needs Basic Cutter (Slot 3)

[EL LOCO]

This is ridiculous    This is insane.   I am not grinding on the basic cutter to level 3.  no way in hell.  So now...I cant get those extra slots.    This is insane.  Who is the ...who thought of this .

 

I would prefer you wipe my xp clean as its gonna take that long regardless but to force me to sail ships I cannot stand is in no way reasonable or just.  Its INSANE

[Sir Texas Sir]

21 hours ago, FieryCross said:

Admin said they were going to post the tree, any update on this?

I been reminding him daily about it since he made that comment and we still haven't gotten a copy.   I don't think they even have a copy of the tree to be honest cause they never done the math.  You will hit RA 10 over before you even get to one 1st rate.   You hit the RA level of xp by the 2nd Connie slot.   That is if you don't even try to go up more than one tree and some of the 1st rates you have to unlock something to even get the 2nd slot.  So 3 slots is not the norm.  Specially when you ahve to unlock some ships to 5 slots to even do the 3rd slots on others.  This is just BS.  I love the rest of the partch but this part right here is goign to drive a lot of players away along with the RNG drop for mods (it's just gold marines all over again as only the lucky will get the refit/mod drops).

[Hethwill]

From my calculations you hit RA game rank at equivalent knowledge station in a flag squadron lead ship, something like the Constitution or Agamemnon.

[FieryCross]

Do think you should be able to unlock all slots by time served in a vessel. They also talked about adding another couple of ranks as well.

But yeah, 90% of the patch is good, Could make a knowledge tree required for 3rd rates up, but not required for lower class vessels, would increase the smiley face quotient.

[victor]

16 hours ago, Snoopy said:

Elephant in the room: Will slot unlocks be wiped @release?

that's THE question

[Nikodemuss]

Hi there, 

I tried to create a graphical solution (like the old crafter tree) to reflect the correct route through the unlock tree. 

But still I have litte doubts that I understood it correctly and I hear several different opinions out there. 

Lets take following example: 

Surprise | UpgradeModulesCount 5 | Slot1: None | Slot2: None | Slot3:  Renommee (Slot 4) | Slot4: None | Slot5: None |

Understanding 1: 
To unlock any upgrade slot for Surprise it is needed to have for Renommee 4 slots unlocked,  (seems to be wrong)

Understanding 2: 
Slot 1 and slot 2 can be unlocked without any unlock of previous ships. Only if 3 or more are wanted Renomme must have unlocked 4 Slots.
I guess Slot 4 and Slot 5 can only be unlocked if Slot 3 has been unlocked before.

 

Can anyone confirm which understanding is correct to have clarity on this?

Regards

Nikodemuss

 

 

[Hethwill]

2 minutes ago, Nikodemuss said:

Slot 1 and slot 2 can be unlocked without any unlock of previous ships. Only if 3 or more are wanted Renomme must have unlocked 4 Slots.

Yep.

[Nikodemuss]

Thanks

Looking further into details i find few ships similar to this:

Trincomalee| Slot1: None | Slot2: None | Slot3:  Surprise (Slot 4) | Slot4:  Renommee (Slot 5) | Slot5: None | 

Is the following understanding correct?
Slot 3 unlocked by Surprise (with 4 slots)  but not 4 and 5, even when I collect XP
Slot 4 (and 5?) unlocked by Renommee (with 5 slots)

Nikodemus

 

 

Edited May 30, 2017 by Nikodemuss

[jodgi]

Thanks @Black Spawn

[Black Spawn]

4 hours ago, Nikodemuss said:

Hi there, 

I tried to create a graphical solution (like the old crafter tree) to reflect the correct route through the unlock tree. 

But still I have litte doubts that I understood it correctly and I hear several different opinions out there. 

Lets take following example: 

Surprise | UpgradeModulesCount 5 | Slot1: None | Slot2: None | Slot3:  Renommee (Slot 4) | Slot4: None | Slot5: None |

Understanding 1: 
To unlock any upgrade slot for Surprise it is needed to have for Renommee 4 slots unlocked,  (seems to be wrong)

Understanding 2: 
Slot 1 and slot 2 can be unlocked without any unlock of previous ships. Only if 3 or more are wanted Renomme must have unlocked 4 Slots.
I guess Slot 4 and Slot 5 can only be unlocked if Slot 3 has been unlocked before.

Can anyone confirm which understanding is correct to have clarity on this?

Regards

Nikodemuss

Understanding 2 is correct as @The Red Duke says. to have slot 1 and 2 you can go for XP alone, but if you want to get further than 3 you have to ulock this one through having the 4th Renommee Slot unlocked first.

4 hours ago, Nikodemuss said:

Thanks

Looking further into details i find few ships similar to this:

Trincomalee| Slot1: None | Slot2: None | Slot3:  Surprise (Slot 4) | Slot4:  Renommee (Slot 5) | Slot5: None | 

Is the following understanding correct?
Slot 3 unlocked by Surprise (with 4 slots)  but not 4 and 5, even when I collect XP
Slot 4 (and 5?) unlocked by Renommee (with 5 slots)

Nikodemus

Yup. To unlock Slot 3 you have to have (at least) the 4th Surprise Slot. To Unlock Slot 4 of the Trinc you have tho have the 5th Renommee Slot.

I am not sure if XP for the Slots is gathered altough you have not yet unlocked it and as soon as you fullfill the 1st requirement (lets say Surprise (Slot 4)) it unlocks because you have enough XP

[Black Spawn]

@Busterbloodvessel Made stuff, not beautiful but functional:

Heavy Tree:

Light Tree:

imgur gallery

Edited May 31, 2017 by Black Spawn

[Sir Texas Sir]

On 5/30/2017 at 3:39 AM, The Red Duke said:

From my calculations you hit RA game rank at equivalent knowledge station in a flag squadron lead ship, something like the Constitution or Agamemnon.

By our calculation it's the second slot of the Connie that you would hit RA most likely and that is only if you go up one line not if you try to go up both if you plan to play in SOL's ships also. 

Edited May 31, 2017 by Sir Texas Sir

[Kloothommel]

Other data sheet from the testserver:

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1PHxx0WQIGShFK8z6dfGe0CsjoKg32YtpeS8GuvTFaDs/edit?usp=sharing

[WhiskeyTangoFoxtrot]

@Black Spawn, awesome work!  ++A

[CaptVonGunn]

On 5/26/2017 at 4:43 AM, The Red Duke said:

Think you can do whatever, simply the ship knowledge is limited to three expertises. To fully unlock mastery ( five slots ) one must learn whatever ships are indicated in the locked slot. It is a odd system, granted but also provides much needed variety.

No it provides a insane time and cash sink given how expensive ships are now if you lose one.. Having to buy everyone on the way up in the brigs is beyond stupid

[St0nkingByte]

I took a shot at charting the entire tree. I do this programatically with Graphviz. Below is a chart that only shows the ships that are interconnected, I left out any ships that don't connect to other ships. You will probably need to open this fullscreen to really understand it. Please ignore the fact that a few are grey and not white, that's a bug in my code I haven't sorted out yet, doesn't mean anything.

 

Edited June 1, 2017 by St0nkingByte

[Hethwill]

8 hours ago, CaptVonGunn said:

No it provides a insane time and cash sink given how expensive ships are now if you lose one.. Having to buy everyone on the way up in the brigs is beyond stupid

I know exactly how expensive ships are hence why I measure risk and possible reward.

Knowledge is not lost with your ship. I don't disagree with the "insane". I will vehemently disagree with the "stupid".

[qw569😳]

del

 

Edited June 1, 2017 by qw569

[Black Spawn]

6 hours ago, St0nkingByte said:

I took a shot at charting the entire tree. I do this programatically with Graphviz. Below is a chart that only shows the ships that are interconnected, I left out any ships that don't connect to other ships. You will probably need to open this fullscreen to really understand it. Please ignore the fact that a few are grey and not white, that's a bug in my code I haven't sorted out yet, doesn't mean anything.

 

Nice. Little overkill there on information but still

Btw. where did you take the information on the Santa Cecilia from? I doubt its considered in the system since its not even available like the Inger etc.

[St0nkingByte]

3 hours ago, Black Spawn said:

Nice. Little overkill there on information but still

Btw. where did you take the information on the Santa Cecilia from? I doubt its considered in the system since its not even available like the Inger etc.

The Santa Cecilia was in the API data you posted. I left it in for the sake of completeness but could remove it, it would make the chart that much smaller

[Black Spawn]

3 minutes ago, St0nkingByte said:

The Santa Cecilia was in the API data you posted. I left it in for the sake of completeness but could remove it, it would make the chart that much smaller

Alrighty. You must have sliped a line then

[...]
Santa Cecilia | UpgradeModulesCount 5 | Slot1: None | Slot2: None | Slot3: None | Slot4: None | Slot5: None | 
[...]

[CaptVonGunn]

11 hours ago, The Red Duke said:

I know exactly how expensive ships are hence why I measure risk and possible reward.

Knowledge is not lost with your ship. I don't disagree with the "insane". I will vehemently disagree with the "stupid".

Disagree all you like sir my opition still stands... I dont mind a reasonable time sink. Heck... Increase the xp per box by 5 or 10 even. But just rewuire us to only do 1 ship to all 5 boxes in each rating. Instead of for the 5th rates 4 and 5 boxes in as many as 4 4th rates...A Frigate is a Frigate.. Just because we have 8 various named ones shouldn't matter

[Sir Texas Sir]

9 hours ago, Hodo said:

People dont understand the Risk vs Reward concept.

When I am out hunting in my Brig, I look at ships from a LONG way away, I factor in a few things.  

- Are they close to friendly fleets or players?

- Are they sailing AFK?

- Do they look like they are loaded with cargo?

- Do they have an escort?

- What type of ship is it?

 

If I feel that it is an easy target, sailing AFK no where near friendlies and no escort in a Traders Brig or Trader Snow, it is a BIG money payoff target, and my dream targets as a privateer not attached to any clans.  

But if I see they are being escorted by frigates like the Endy or the Surprise, I know I am probably going to be in over my head if I attack it, but that ship maybe REALLY worth it.  But not worth the risk.

If I see they have a Snow or another 6th rate escorting them I know they think the cargo is valuable enough to have some kind of escort, and is a good target for me.  

I take the same stand with if it's a group of 3 players or one with 2 AI's in his fleet.  Either way your still attacking 3 ships total, I just know the AI's are going to be kinda stupid in battle so that gives me more of a chance over three players, well unless it's three NPG, I mean US, crap I mean PvE players.....

That is the other thing is I look at the players name if I know them and the nation too.  Got to say some folks I will attack on sight even with AI's cause I know how bad they are at fighting. Kinda feel sorry for some folks i have sunk multi times and I'm not even that great at this game.

[St0nkingByte]

12 hours ago, Black Spawn said:

Alrighty. You must have sliped a line then

[...]
Santa Cecilia | UpgradeModulesCount 5 | Slot1: None | Slot2: None | Slot3: None | Slot4: None | Slot5: None | 
[...]

Oops.

Here's a new version, also fixed my bug with the uncolored items...