Jeheil Posted June 15, 2016 Share Posted June 15, 2016 Had a fun port battle last night. As we lined up on tower 5 a bunch of piratey chaps came in to defend their port from its rightful liberation. Rather hilariously two of them zoned in pretty close to our line and as such we set about them. One of these dastardly pirates had his fireship mods installed on his ingermanland (rather a waste of 450 souls if you ask me) and after about 4 broadsides he caught fire, tried to head to towards our line and then rather deliciously exploded. He managed to get one of our ships in his blast radius killing 300 good men. However...after he exploded he still had 130 men alive. We ignored him (everything was a mess, hull, sails, barely any crew) and we focused on the more functional ships. I was surprised that after the application of a couple of repair kits he managed to sail off and then escape. Now more fool us for not sitting off his broadside and finishing him off. But....should a fireship 'survive' ?? its explosion ?? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Konali89 Posted June 15, 2016 Share Posted June 15, 2016 I think after an explosion, you should be done for. Offcourse you have all sizes and types of explosions but the kind of type we have now should be the final blow. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteelSandwich Posted June 15, 2016 Share Posted June 15, 2016 One way ticket imo. You want to become a fire ball? That fine but there shouldnt be any coming back from it. 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ledinis Posted June 16, 2016 Share Posted June 16, 2016 Fireships as they are should not even exist in the game... The moment you take of survival on a burning ship with 450, expecting the men to suicide like zealots, there should be a simulation of survival turning back on, and the ship becoming an NPC to mimic the crew disposing of a crazed captain and taking control of the ship. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anolytic Posted June 16, 2016 Share Posted June 16, 2016 What Ledinis said. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aus Robert Maynard Posted June 16, 2016 Share Posted June 16, 2016 A fireship is a floating bomb - there should be no escape from it as in it's design it is to blow apart taking anything nearby with it. I don't understand it's inclusion in the game as it is a one way event & i'm not aware of any players that want to die in the hope of taking a few souls with them. I could understand it becoming part of a fire damaged ships endgame but sailing into battle with the intent of self destruction doesn't sound like a voluntary action. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bommel Posted June 16, 2016 Share Posted June 16, 2016 Fireships as they are should not even exist in the game... The moment you take of survival on a burning ship with 450, expecting the men to suicide like zealots, there should be a simulation of survival turning back on, and the ship becoming an NPC to mimic the crew disposing of a crazed captain and taking control of the ship. And the same for a any ship that rams others or tries to surrender while having 400+ crew... Best way to limit the game to very little fighting options. PS: A fireship shouldn´t live after it blew up though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeheil Posted June 16, 2016 Author Share Posted June 16, 2016 Well then based on the wonderful feedback above and having consulted the dictionary, I designate the current implementation to be "Goosed". As an aside, at the Battle of Copenhagen, in the British fleet itinerary they list two specific types of ships (of which they had quite a few...like 10 of them) BOMB SHIPS : Now Bomb ships...rather disappointingly are infact dedicated "Mortar Ships" with perhaps a few cannon for self defence. and FIRE SHIPS : These were repurposed knackered old ships, filled with combustibles that were steered then 'launched' towards enemy lines to sow panic and confusion. It should be noted, they were not generally 'crewed' once set ablaze and were a bit of a fire and forget weapon. They DID NOT blow up. Now, not used at Copenhagen but a varient of the "Fire Ship" was sometimes called a "Hellburner" now these ships were not really used in the 17 or 18 hundreds but date back to them there Dutch who helped by Liz the 1st created 'exploding ships' to help break a siege by them there Spanish. These ships were small ships packed with explosives that were held in a 'brick' chamber to ensure the charge exited either side of an 'oblong' onto their desired targets. The crafty cloggies would then float 20-30 fireships towards their beseigers and then at the back end a couple of hellburners...that looked like fireships and then assploded. In one fine example they managed to kill 800 troops on one ship and all but destroy the Santa Maria (at the battle of Antwerp). It is said the blast could be heard over 50 miles away. Discovery (bomb, Cmdr. John Conn)Explosion (bomb, Cmdr. John Henry Martin)Hecla (bomb, Cmdr. Richard Hatherhill)Sulphur (bomb, Cmdr. Hender Whitter)Terror (bomb, Cmdr. Samuel Campbell Rowley)Volcano (bomb, Cmdr. James Watson)Zebra (bomb, Cmdr. Edward Sneyd Clay)Otter (fireship, Cmdr. George M'Kinley)Zephyr (fireship, Cmdr. Clotworthy Upton) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hellshammy Posted June 16, 2016 Share Posted June 16, 2016 It should be added to the Fireship mod that it takes 90 % of your ship crew,leaving just a few brave men to raise the sails and steer the ship in the general direction.This mod is ok and a valid tactic in my eyes.This is especialy needed once the crew hire comes,either people will have to use smaller ships or we will be able to decide how much crew we want to use on the ship or as i said it 1,just set it up on the mod -90 % crew and problem solved. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bommel Posted June 16, 2016 Share Posted June 16, 2016 It´s a game... In real life, captains: -didn´t ram other ships on purpose -could not escape/disappear from battle after not being hit for 1:45 minutes -didn´t have 50% marines -didn´t have reinforced masts that slowed them down for whatever reason -etc. Our ingame fireships can´t be set on fire by the captain he needs to have been shot at. And it´s not like those fireships are impossible to avoid. I think this is an interesting feature which spices up the fights. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quineloe Posted June 16, 2016 Share Posted June 16, 2016 Just another example of the fireship concept in this game being completely absurd. How does an explosion killing hundreds of people 100m away leave anything intact at ground zero? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteelSandwich Posted June 16, 2016 Share Posted June 16, 2016 FIRE SHIPS : These were repurposed knackered old ships, filled with combustibles that were steered then 'launched' towards enemy lines to sow panic and confusion. It should be noted, they were not generally 'crewed' once set ablaze and were a bit of a fire and forget weapon. They DID NOT blow up. Whilst i personally know little of how the Battle of Copenhagen played out, i can say with certainty that this is not how fireships used to operate in the 17th century. Setting a ship ablaze and just letting it drift towards an enemy line is barely effective. The clue of a fireship is that it is not recognizable and looks like any other ships. Example: The ship above is the Kat, a Dutch fireship used in the Four Days' Battle. The Dutch even made wooden cannons (cheap) in order to make it look like an actual operational small frigate. The way they operated was far more dangerous than setting ablaze the ship and jamming the rudder; they went towards their target and starting to grapple the ship into its side. When the grapple was secure/strong enough, the ship would be set ablaze. Since you are up close you risk point-blank broadsides as well as a hail of musket fire, hence the reason why fire crews were paid incredible amounts for a successful run. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thonys Posted June 16, 2016 Share Posted June 16, 2016 designated fire ships in the game should have fuse timer to go off (special button when it is time to go on fire) and only 2 guns the designated fire ships where mostly with a few people sailing and limited guns (they where taken off the ship for that reason) it where even sometimes specially fabricated upgraded ships and had even a door on the side (and a small escape sloop to disembark)to escape when the ship was put on fire https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fire_ship#/media/File:Brulot10.jpg you can read more about it over here Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ledinis Posted June 16, 2016 Share Posted June 16, 2016 It´s a game... In real life, captains: -didn´t ram other ships on purpose -could not escape/disappear from battle after not being hit for 1:45 minutes -didn´t have 50% marines -didn´t have reinforced masts that slowed them down for whatever reason -etc. Our ingame fireships can´t be set on fire by the captain he needs to have been shot at. And it´s not like those fireships are impossible to avoid. I think this is an interesting feature which spices up the fights. You literally just listed every bad thing about this game in defense of another bad mechanic O.o 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maturin Posted June 16, 2016 Share Posted June 16, 2016 Fireship mods should reduce crew by 90% and take you down to 1 dura. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akd Posted June 16, 2016 Share Posted June 16, 2016 Whilst i personally know little of how the Battle of Copenhagen played out, i can say with certainty that this is not how fireships used to operate in the 17th century. Setting a ship ablaze and just letting it drift towards an enemy line is barely effective. The clue of a fireship is that it is not recognizable and looks like any other ships. Example: The ship above is the Kat, a Dutch fireship used in the Four Days' Battle. The Dutch even made wooden cannons (cheap) in order to make it look like an actual operational small frigate. The way they operated was far more dangerous than setting ablaze the ship and jamming the rudder; they went towards their target and starting to grapple the ship into its side. When the grapple was secure/strong enough, the ship would be set ablaze. Since you are up close you risk point-blank broadsides as well as a hail of musket fire, hence the reason why fire crews were paid incredible amounts for a successful run. The examples I can think of from 18th C. / Napoleonic era all involved ships set afire and abandoned to sail / drift down on a stationary (in anchorage) enemy. Most occurred at night as success depended on surprise. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteelSandwich Posted June 17, 2016 Share Posted June 17, 2016 The examples I can think of from 18th C. / Napoleonic era all involved ships set afire and abandoned to sail / drift down on a stationary (in anchorage) enemy. Most occurred at night as success depended on surprise. Do you maybe have some examples to testify their efficiency? I find it interesting that they fully changed the way they used them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paint Posted June 17, 2016 Share Posted June 17, 2016 Fireships as they are should not even exist in the game... The moment you take of survival on a burning ship with 450, expecting the men to suicide like zealots, there should be a simulation of survival turning back on, and the ship becoming an NPC to mimic the crew disposing of a crazed captain and taking control of the ship. I like that, could be like a crew shock if the captain does things like that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daniboy3000 Posted June 17, 2016 Share Posted June 17, 2016 In my opinion, the option to disable survival mode should be taken away. That would be a simple fix to prevent fire ships and people from suiciding... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vernon Merrill Posted June 17, 2016 Share Posted June 17, 2016 Although I dont even think they should be in the game, personally, I would make fireships have a 5 minute count-down. After that the crew sets the ship ablaze, lashes the wheel to sail straight, and abandons ship. Honestly, they should be more of a nuisance that MIGHT make you alter your course more than a true danger. I can see them used to force opposing fleets to sail a certain direction for a time, but thats about it... Just my $.02 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akd Posted June 17, 2016 Share Posted June 17, 2016 Do you maybe have some examples to testify their efficiency? I find it interesting that they fully changed the way they used them. The first that comes to mind is the Battle of Basque Roads: The fireships missed their target, badly; but they still inflicted considerable indirect damage. When the French sighted the fireships taking flame several miles away, they believed they were seeing more explosion-vessels at much closer range, and wreaked much havoc upon themselves in their attempts to escape. Most of the ships either cut their anchor cables and drifted ashore, or else hoisted sail with equally disastrous results. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_the_Basque_Roads 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cpt Blackthorne Posted June 17, 2016 Share Posted June 17, 2016 With the different quality of fireship fittings, does the have calculation in it as to how much damage is done in initial blow and for how long it burns and the radius? I believe fireships should indeed be in the game, but I do agree they should be done fore after explosion, no matter the quality of upgrade. I also believe it should not be a fully crewed ship. Say a grey FF would reduce the ship crew 40%, a green 50%, up to a gold at 80% of crew allowed to operate the ship. So those who want to fireship a connie would be considerably under-crewed during battle. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteelSandwich Posted June 17, 2016 Share Posted June 17, 2016 I think we need to ask ourselves first if we want 'older' type of fireships (grappling and burning) or 'newer' fireships (put on fire, jam rudder and explode near eneny). I personally think the gameplay would benefit the older type. Warshios can still catch fire and explode, yet no toggling of survival. Onboard the Royal Prince, when she got boarded, the dutch found a guy with his troat cut in the powder room. Apperently he got orders from the captain (who was dead by then) to blow the ships if she was boarded. The crew didnt agree with this and killed the guy and whomever sympathised with his cause. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vykorie Posted June 19, 2016 Share Posted June 19, 2016 (edited) big post that was me, no fireship mods on my inger just exec toolbox and hammocks. turned all my guns off so the crew went into survival AFTER blowing up, surprised they put that fire out. Edited June 19, 2016 by Vykorie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aus Robert Maynard Posted June 19, 2016 Share Posted June 19, 2016 I ran an Ingermanland with fireship fitting into a mission battle. Very soon after starting i was set ablaze by the enemy, starboard bow. I used urgent repairs & ship repairs but nothing could put the fire out. I did not however explode - maybe due to repair efforts - but rather the fire burnt off one side of my ship which eventually sunk because of this. I still had full control of ship & even laid it against a few enemy ships hoping to set them ablaze. I had full cannon function & kept fighting until i sank. The fact the ship never exploded meant by catching fire I was just going to suffer a slow & annoying death that couldn't be avoided. The only casualty of that particular fireship was it's crew ..... destroyed the fitting as soon as i got back to port. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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