A few suggestions

[Naughty Nancy O'Malley]

Thinking about why i like this game and what really bugs me about this game over the last 12 months I've come to some bit of a conclusion.

 

I like flight sims (ROF, COD, IL2 etc.) and I've gone back to playing those games instead of deadheading Naval Action (NA) all the time.  There was something that NA was missing.  Was it the long sailing with nothing to do?  Was it the hard task of finding your missions?  What was the difference?

 

After some retrospection I decided that the the flight sim (FS) engages ME from engine start to landing.  You have the engine management, The constant look-out for Enemy Aircraft (EA). Skill needed to take off and land.  Sometimes very nice scenery to view when flying around.  The navigation of the aircraft and a few other things I guess like the tactile effort/feedback you get from using a joystick and rudder pedals...

 

So my immediate thoughts on NA are:

It takes too long to find your missions - unless you're going to make navigation an item of play for the game.  That would mean getting charts and some sort of sextant use 'in-game.'  With the grinding, which no one likes, you should have the missions closer and easier to get to/find.  Color the Admiralty Order bright RED or GREEN etc.    I've leveled up all the way - but I still like sailing the smaller ships - I don't think the grind is a great feature as it currently stands in fact it's probably driving some newer players out of the game.  

 

A Few Suggestions:

1. make the missions pop in closer to the port you're at - or make finding them fun instead of just a pain in the ass (goes back to navigation)

 

2. Why make it so hard to grind up to using the bigger ships?

 

3. Make it easier or more fun (read engaging) to move around the MAP

 

4. Think about benefits for being one faction or the other.  i.e. should everyone be able to sail every ship.  There should be some advantages/disadvantages to being in a faction (nation).  That makes it interesting.

 

5. I would suggest making it easier to move between factions - possibly by getting to the top level you can move indiscriminately switch between Nations which allows you to play more areas of the MAP. - I'm particularly board with MT right now, I'd love to sail the windward islands but I cannot - can I be neutral or wear another flag...?

 

To have a game that's just interesting because it's the age of sale just won't do it over time for me. There is going to have to be a few things for the different player types.  

 

 

HOPE this is thoughtful to some extent - 

Thanks - LETS GO FLYING!

Edited June 5, 2016 by SteelSandwich
Renamed the title

[maturin]

Flight sims are already a niche genre that struggle to attract enough players. Now you want to try that model with ships, when the fan base is dozens of times smaller and the knowledge base of fans (and devs) is hundreds of times smaller?

How many people know what a trim tab is, versus the number of people who are familiar with catharpings? How many people can be convinced to learn that and a hundred other things before they get to fire their guns?

[Vernon Merrill]

There's nothing preventing you or any other person from re-rolling if you want to see other areas of the map.

[Naughty Nancy O'Malley]

Well - my TOPIC NAME is doing what I hoped, bringing some people in to read it.

 

I don't think this should be a flight sim, however, I'd rather have more players in here than less.  So, my few & minor edit suggestions, stand on their own merit.

Read the 'flight sim' corollary as just a way to express some thoughts on what attracts some people to a game.  Basically - a player needs to be engaged with the game!  What ever the game is.  Try to take it as thoughtful.

[Anne Wildcat]

You don't even need to reroll to see other areas of the map, sail there. You don't need to do it in 1 session, maybe sail 10 min, log out, log back in, sail more, repeat. If you want to get there quicker use a traders Lynx or basic cutter. The Sweedish/French area has some pretty ports. But I agree, it would be nice to have more immersion when sailing on the open world.

Edited June 5, 2016 by Anne Wildcat

[Naughty Nancy O'Malley]

HAD TO LOOK IT UP !!

Noun

catharping ‎(plural catharpings)

1. (nautical) any of the short ropes under the tops at the lower end of the futtock shrouds of a square-rigged vessel used to secure other ropes in place

[Hugo van Grojt]

Thinking about why i like this game and what really bugs me about this game over the last 12 months I've come to some bit of a conclusion.

 

I like flight sims (ROF, COD, IL2 etc.) and I've gone back to playing those games instead of deadheading Naval Action (NA) all the time.  There was something that NA was missing.  Was it the long sailing with nothing to do?  Was it the hard task of finding your missions?  What was the difference?

 

After some retrospection I decided that the the flight sim (FS) engages ME from engine start to landing.  You have the engine management, The constant look-out for Enemy Aircraft (EA). Skill needed to take off and land.  Sometimes very nice scenery to view when flying around.  The navigation of the aircraft and a few other things I guess like the tactile effort/feedback you get from using a joystick and rudder pedals...

 

So my immediate thoughts on NA are:

It takes too long to find your missions - unless you're going to make navigation an item of play for the game.  That would mean getting charts and some sort of sextant use 'in-game.'  With the grinding, which no one likes, you should have the missions closer and easier to get to/find.  Color the Admiralty Order bright RED or GREEN etc.    I've leveled up all the way - but I still like sailing the smaller ships - I don't think the grind is a great feature as it currently stands in fact it's probably driving some newer players out of the game.  

 

A Few Suggestions:

1. make the missions pop in closer to the port you're at - or make finding them fun instead of just a pain in the ass (goes back to navigation)

 

2. Why make it so hard to grind up to using the bigger ships?

 

3. Make it easier or more fun (read engaging) to move around the MAP

 

4. Think about benefits for being one faction or the other.  i.e. should everyone be able to sail every ship.  There should be some advantages/disadvantages to being in a faction (nation).  That makes it interesting.

 

5. I would suggest making it easier to move between factions - possibly by getting to the top level you can move indiscriminately switch between Nations which allows you to play more areas of the MAP. - I'm particularly board with MT right now, I'd love to sail the windward islands but I cannot - can I be neutral or wear another flag...?

 

To have a game that's just interesting because it's the age of sale just won't do it over time for me. There is going to have to be a few things for the different player types.  

 

 

HOPE this is thoughtful to some extent - 

Thanks - LETS GO FLYING!

 

Good ideas, but why oh why did you not post this is in the appropriate forum section such as "suggestions" or "open world discussions" ? Now, a moderator has to come in a clean this ....

[Naughty Nancy O'Malley]

Flight sims are already a niche genre that struggle to attract enough players. Now you want to try that model with ships, when the fan base is dozens of times smaller and the knowledge base of fans (and devs) is hundreds of times smaller?

How many people know what a trim tab is, versus the number of people who are familiar with catharpings? How many people can be convinced to learn that and a hundred other things before they get to fire their guns?

 

 

I would hate to see this game turn into a niche game - going from 3000 online to 200-500 during peak times is.... well you see what I mean.  Like any game, the more people in the sandbox the better.

 

Good ideas, but why oh why did you not post this is in the appropriate forum section such as "suggestions" or "open world discussions" ? Now, a moderator has to come in a clean this ....

 

MY BAD !!!

 

[Hugo van Grojt]

Flight sims are already a niche genre that struggle to attract enough players. Now you want to try that model with ships, when the fan base is dozens of times smaller and the knowledge base of fans (and devs) is hundreds of times smaller?

How many people know what a trim tab is, versus the number of people who are familiar with catharpings? How many people can be convinced to learn that and a hundred other things before they get to fire their guns?

 

I happen to know - but I agree with you that Naval Action is not and should not be designed as a 100% realistic sailing simulator. I think the devs have the sail handling worked out nicely - easy to learn, a bit harder to master. And when we get RANDOM WIND (which we will), sailing tactically will become even more interesting.

 

There could be some small improvements to be made that give a manual sailor a slight edge over an automatic sail trimmer- but this is nitpicking and just lol considering all the other parts of the game that need to come together before this becomes relevant.

[Pugwis]

1. Why not, but honestly, it will be too easy/fast if the devs do such changes, considering the massive amount of xp given by fleeting now, it is pretty well balanced in my opinion.

2. Really ? Did you play the game recently ?

3. I think we need a compass for the in-game map instead of going in a fansite to use a compass, but no gps or any other unrealistic Tools.

4. Could be a good idea, but if not done carefully, it will destroy the balance and some faction will be left to rot.

5. Eventually the possibility to wear another flag for ambush purposes. But the possibility to switch between faction is not reasonable. Being able to create character in différents factions with absolutely NO interaction possible between each of them could do it.

[HarryButpain]

I, as well, suggested once in a thread that leveling up or 'the grind' is perhaps counter-intuitive in a PvP game like Naval Action. My reasoning is that a PvP game should always encourage fighting and sinking instead of erecting artificial barriers which stop a player from joining the arguably 'meat and potatoes' of the game which is PvP.

 

I think many people fail to realize that 'Ranks' or 'Player Levels' are a relic of MMOs of the past which were heavily relying on PvE content like questing and 'Raids' rather than PvP.

 

I think that allowing every player to almost immediately jump into PvP as soon he bought the game can only be a good thing, it would bring more life into the entire circle. PvPers would see more combat and traders and crafters would sell more cause ppl win and more importantly sink more.

Sure, a new player could theoretically sail a victory right from the start but who would actually give it to him when we think about all the time and effort it takes to put such a colossal ship together? The only thing a new player had to do after buying the game was to join a clan. A clan would provide him with a ship and guidance..

 

If a player decided to start the game without joining a clan he had to do missions for money or trade/craft in order to make money and buy a better ship..

 

New and old players always need money which is exactly why the economy will always benefit, especially when there's more PvP. 

Edited June 4, 2016 by BACk ALLEY ShENANiGANS

[Guest]

Personally I'm hoping that they will add controller support so that I can plug in a wheel, zoom in to the quarterdeck and finally get some immersion going.

 

Just can't shake the 'gamey' feel no matter how many realistic elements that are added, but maybe that's because when I'm not on here I'm usually flying in DCS. ^^

[Quineloe]

Without reading the entire OP, I have to agree - it annoys me I can't play this with my Thrustmaster Hotas Warthog.

[Thonys]

-knip-

 

A Few Suggestions:

1. make the missions pop in closer to the port you're at - or make finding them fun instead of just a pain in the ass (goes back to navigation)

--     good idea-

 

2. Why make it so hard to grind up to using the bigger ships?

--bad idea -

the grind is even to short in my opinion

i have seen people with the rank of captain who can t even sail in a straight line  

 

 

4. Think about benefits for being one faction or the other.  i.e. should everyone be able to sail every ship.  There should be some advantages/disadvantages to being in a faction (nation).  That makes it interesting.

--good idea-

but there is a advantage if you are in a GOOD clan )

but there can be put in a mechanic who will benefit players if they are in a clan,  atm it does not interest them they just dont see the benefit..

 

 

To have a game that's just interesting because it's the age of sale just won't do it over time for me. There is going to have to be a few things for the different player types.

-well it is still alpha- 

 

o7

[William Livingston Alden]

 

 

2. Why make it so hard to grind up to using the bigger ships?

--bad idea -

the grind is even to short in my opinion

i have seen people with the rank of captain who can t even sail in a straight line  

 

 

 

that is hardly true

Edited June 5, 2016 by William Livingston Alden

[Anne Wildcat]

I, as well, suggested once in a thread that leveling up or 'the grind' is perhaps counter-intuitive in a PvP game like Naval Action. My reasoning is that a PvP game should always encourage fighting and sinking instead of erecting artificial barriers which stop a player from joining the arguably 'meat and potatoes' of the game which is PvP.

 

I think many people fail to realize that 'Ranks' or 'Player Levels' are a relic of MMOs of the past which were heavily relying on PvE content like questing and 'Raids' rather than PvP.

Agree 100% that for the PVP side, rank isn't that important. But for those that are into conquest, leveling up fast, now to the point where you can crew an Ingermanland, is important.

[Sir Texas Sir]

1. Why not, but honestly, it will be too easy/fast if the devs do such changes, considering the massive amount of xp given by fleeting now, it is pretty well balanced in my opinion.

2. Really ? Did you play the game recently ?

3. I think we need a compass for the in-game map instead of going in a fansite to use a compass, but no gps or any other unrealistic Tools.

4. Could be a good idea, but if not done carefully, it will destroy the balance and some faction will be left to rot.

5. Eventually the possibility to wear another flag for ambush purposes. But the possibility to switch between faction is not reasonable. Being able to create character in différents factions with absolutely NO interaction possible between each of them could do it.

As a fairly causal solo player I agree with these for the most part.

 

1.  I would love to see more missions that are for the guys that don't want to fleet big ships.  I like that we get XP now for distance sailed.  I don't do battles much and just been doing trade stuff.   I found that as you level up they expect you pretty much to be a in a fleet and fight more and more in groups.   This hurts the little guys.  I don't want an easy mode, but be nice to have some better solo missions that isn't just a grind.

2.  I'm just about to turn Master Commandant and I don't think the grind is that bad.  I mean I could rush faster, but since I only play a little here and there it's been nice to work up to each next ship slowly.  I got some one making my my Surprise this week even though I'm not rank to make it yet, but I'll have every thing for him.   It's to get ready for when I do get about 1.5K more xp knocked out.  Which if I did more mission or fleet grinding prob wouldn't take me long at all to do.

3.  This age of sailing they had navigation charts and means to get a rough figure of there location while not exact.  It would be nice to have some more in game means to chart your path.  Even if it could be off cause of skill, storms or other things.  Maybe a hidden stat that if you haven't explored the area than your charts are going to be even more off when you plot something and than you will have to go for the old school find a port and than go from there.  The movie Master and Commander was a very good example of use of charts during this time period and a lot of that area they haven't been to and very few have explored.

4.  I think some of the econ should be mainly set for certain areas and that is why you have the port battles, but some nations do need work.  Sorry Pirates should be limited on there ship builds and size they can have without capturing a prized ship.  Even than most of them ransom off the ship as it was to big/bulky to keep and maintain.   Make hunting said pirates more rewarding for those that wish to play more like privateers than royal navies or traders.   This can go back to missions for different play style.  Give missions for the Navy guys, Trade Missions for the Traders, and prize hunts for those that want to solo hunt.  Pirates can get a bigger reward cause of there ransoms.  How about making surrender option where you can still keep your ship but the attacker can take part of your cargo, but you have to pay a big ransom to do so if they choose to not just sink you.   

5.  Don't like this for the higher levels.  What would happen if an Admiral switched sides?  He would be cast as a traitor and than hanged when caught if not shot on the spot.   I can see more the option at lower ranks or taking say privateer contracts from one nation to fight another.  This might come into play with the future diplomatic stuff they talk about.

Edited June 6, 2016 by Sir Texas SIr

[Hethwill]

Nice analogy OP.

 

But remember that on the sims it all comes down to how the server is designed. Not all servers are Dogfight mode. Taking Storm of War for CLoD for example, 90% of the time is flying to and back if you going for target or patrol routine if you just giving cover. So a 2 hours session in my Hurricane or in my Privateer amount close to the same ratio of travel, lookout, fight, regress.

Add 1-life-events in IL-2. Two hour duration, 1 life. You get shot in the first bounce you are out for the session.

Plus, even in Sims there are "gank" squads How many times ack-ack is crap and you have your AF constantly camped by enemy squads ?

 

All in all I like the immersion of both historical periods and I see more in common in NA and IL-2 for example than NA and any other combat mmo.

[Nankeen Heron]

"That would mean getting charts and some sort of sextant use 'in-game.'"

 

THIS.

 

Having "a GPS" is unrealistic.

Having NFI where you are on the map is also unrealistic.

 

You know where - and when - you are when leaving port.

At the very least, there should be a fuzzy "you are somewhere around here" marker on the map than degrades over time.

Taking a sextant reading or sighting a landmark should reduce the fuzziness.

 

http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/nova/shackleton/navigate/escapenav.html

[The Spud]

To reply to your points;

 

1 - The missions are allready 10-20% closer since a recent patch, my production building are very close to my capital so what i do is TP there and take a missions and move around my outposts around the capital, this way i have a very concentrated area of missions with missions sometimes being right outside of the capital. This is for the higher level missions, the lower level missions spawn in closer. So they don't need to be closer, or its just too easy.

 

2 - The grind is allready seriously reduced, but I do agree that when you buy this game expecting to sail a propper sized ship (to me thats a cerb or up) you get disapointed a bit. You'll need to learn your way around the game, the sailing the shooting, some crafting etc... this already takes some time to master, so whenever you are propperly on track for gold and XP grinding you are probably allready a couple of hours into the game. Now its prety obvious that allot of the players right now are realy naval fanatics, or even specificaly age of sail fanatics, who love every single ship along the way etc. and to who its worth every rank to discover all the ships. But some might probably prefer sailing something more satisfying. I would personaly have loved to start sailing from the cerb and up and skip all the other ships, I did however like the snow allot, haven't tried the rattlesnake though. But making sailing the cerb "possible" from the first day, you will still need the money to buy and equip one first, and need to master manual sailing to effectively sail a cerb. But the fact that gold can be gained by various means, it won't seem as inaccessable as first. In return I would however restore the other ranks to something inbetween what it is now and what it used to be, so the time needed to become rear admiral is the same as now. This will make it easier to persuade a friend to buy the game, when you can give him a cerb and you can do some half descent missions together, so he is hooked from day one.

 

3 - OW sailing is somewhat fine for me, it is a bit boring by times, but the only time you realy need to sail more then 30 minutes is when you're trying to set an outpost in the corner of the map. And you can do that AFK in a cutter, and still get XP for it. I suggested a sort of minigame you could do when sailing, like battleships or something.

 

4 - I think you are saying that nations should have nations specific perks, ships, etc.. but this will be hard to balance, and some nations will be prefered by players while other will have nearly no players.

 

5 - Moving easily between factions will make trolling, griefing and spying very easy. Its already hard enough to know who to trust and who not.

 

As a conclusion what you are trying to say is that the game should become a bit faster paced, where you can experience the whole content of the game much faster. And i can't disagree, the time investment needed in this game is high, and it scares some people away from the game. So I would love in the final release to at least one server where they cater to the needs of these players.

Where OW travel time is higher, missions are closer to ports, you can sail all ships (or nearly all ships) from the very start of the game. You can TP between freetowns with your ship without needing to have an outpost there.

So the action will be fast and plenty. But nothing should be transferable to the "hardcore" servers we have now. This will make it easy for the hardcore players and the arcady players to coexist and love the same game but in a very different way. This game is just too good combat wise, to not make it possible for the masses to enjoy it. Allot will disagree, but if both types can enjoy the same game without troubeling eachother, there shouldn't realy be a problem.