[PvP1] The Dutch Join the War Against France

[whynotfr]

[Vernon Merrill]

Aye, kudos to the Spaniards, encountered quite a few of them supporting the French in the south. o7

Was wondering why I saw a few at La Mona.

[praefect]

Short diplo update/announcement:

 

The french peace proposal given to the dutch is rejected by the High Dutch Council with unanimous assent.

In order to demand ports / to enforce the take over of dutch ports we prompt the french navy to actually defeat our nation.

[Thonar]

Short diplo update/announcement:

 

The french peace proposal given to the dutch is rejected by the High Dutch Council with unanimous assent.

In order to demand ports / to enforce the take over of dutch ports we prompt the french navy to actually defeat our nation.

 

Would it be possible to get some insight into the proposal?

Just for me, just for fun^^

[whynotfr]

 

In order to demand ports / to enforce the take over of dutch ports we prompt the french navy to actually defeat our nation.

 

 

I think we wont be able to do that sire. 

Edited June 10, 2016 by whynotfr

[Xaelendra]

I followed that topic from the very begining. I didn't want to participate to those strong talking, I don't really enjoy clashes, or any very long debate, but this is too much for me...

 

 

First of all, Pampatar, Carùpano and Galdonas are, basicly, french ports occupied by VP since the Black Friday. Dutch may have forgotten that, I can't blame them, they are orange for three months now and new players aren't necessarily aware of this, but I count on older players to tell them that story. Anyway, to see a diplomat talking about that contested area as dutch without any shade, as an unchangeable truth like it was given to them from the holy son of god... Well, it sounds kinda disrespectful and inappropriable to me.

 

Then, you ask us to defeat your nation so we can demand our claims. I assume you and I play at the very same game, so if anything escaped you I will make it clear with simple words: There is no in game mechanic which may permit us to actually defeat you. Please, be more specific about what we are supposed to do.

 

Finally, there is no page on that topic where the dutch diplomat is not remembering us that dutch were asking for peace from the begining of that war. White peace is the exact term he used. Well, asked the full North of our territory and a peace with Great Britain - which has, let's say it, pretty nothing to do with the actual casus belli: defending Sweden against Danes and their allies - in exchange for peace is not a white peace. Let us play in a reserve between Grande Anse and Kingstown like a critically endangered specy neither. These are insulting and totally unacceptable terms for a reddition. Here, we come with a proposition, which suits to Sweden and there needs for ressource producter ports, France and our will to bring peace in that part of the map, and VP which should be satisfied we found an agreement with the ally it supposed to defend and to have the opportunity for continuing its war against pirates, all of this in exchange of three ports we have strong claims on. And I read that proposal has been rejected by the Dutch Council "with unanimous assent" ?

 

VP may wants that war for its own reasons, I am OK with that. But then, stop hidding behind a blurry will to bring peace with France, nor that sentence "We asked the french for peace but they always refusing". I can't take more of that shit which implies that French are bellicose and agressive when proposed unacceptable terms, whereas Dutch unanimously refuse peace with suitable terms for every belligerent.

[Apina]

I also remember the time that those were french ports. Dutch captured them fair and square, like you said, ~3 moths ago. its a long time to stake a claim.

 

Also during the swede-dutch war dutch defended them bravely, and in the end, succesfully. In my mind especially pampatar was the real start of dutch territory. I would respect they claim on these ports. On the other hand. st; george is a very good port that has not been controlled properly by french for long periods of time for quite a while. to me this would be a good boundary for peace. Ports more south, puerto espana etc. seem like an area that could be used as bargaining chip.

 

My point being that if dutch are offering peace with st. george included those seem like fair terms.

 

This coming from swedish captain that does not partake in any politics. just shooting stuff and sinking a lot

 

Good winds to all captains

[praefect]

 

First of all, Pampatar, Carùpano and Galdonas are, basicly, french ports occupied by VP since the Black Friday. Dutch may have forgotten that, I can't blame them, they are orange for three months now and new players aren't necessarily aware of this, but I count on older players to tell them that story. Anyway, to see a diplomat talking about that contested area as dutch without any shade, as an unchangeable truth like it was given to them from the holy son of god... Well, it sounds kinda disrespectful and inappropriable to me.f

South-Eastern was neutral, then it became dutch, then french tried to conquer them. Afterwards french and Dutch agreed upon a peace (even an alliance later on), were our border was defined and a lot of the ports were given to the french. French not rly care about stuff like this? Why do we even have treaties then with the french? If the french community is now fighting to conquer these ports, no problem, but be honest atleast.

 

 

 

Then, you ask us to defeat your nation so we can demand our claims. I assume you and I play at the very same game, so if anything escaped you I will make it clear with simple words: There is no in game mechanic which may permit us to actually defeat you. Please, be more specific about what we are supposed to do.

Ask the swedes. We easily found the natural end of the war with them and had always good and constructive talks about the needs of both communities. Just find a natural end with us. Atm french diplomacy is doing everything to convince us to continue the fights.

 

And pls don´t forget the statement of the french when we were in front of ur capitol: "It´s in insult for the french community to ask for one single port".

We won´t forget that, because that was the clearest moment where french showed, that they don´t care about other communities. That was the moment were dutch player were deeply pissed about the game, cos u cannot enforce a victory by game mechanics, so it all relies on the behavior of the people in that game. The french behavior lead to player leaving the game, our players in that case. Once a big patch / server wipe came and these guys are back, we will need someone to fight. And it´s pretty much easy to motivate yourself to fight someone you actually dislike cos he harmed you.

 

 

 

 

Finally, there is no page on that topic where the dutch diplomat is not remembering us that dutch were asking for peace from the begining of that war. White peace is the exact term he used. Well, asked the full North of our territory and a peace with Great Britain - which has, let's say it, pretty nothing to do with the actual casus belli: defending Sweden against Danes and their allies - in exchange for peace is not a white peace.

And exactly that shows us, that there is a communication problem between both nations, cos what french state in forum is not what was discussed in the diplo talks. It was also written often enough in the relevant threads what really happend and french community is still not informed. One reason why french diplomacy is not reliable.

 

1. War started, dutch took one french port, french took 5 dutch ports in the first days. French and dutch agreed, that this war is stupid. Dutch would like to stay in Haiti to fight pirates, so dutch offered white peace (everything will go back to a status before the war). French answer: No, french are actually winning, so we do not want to stop the war yet.

2. War continued and all captured ports became dutch ports again. We asked again for white peace. French answer: No, both coalitions are equal in strength, no side has advantage yet, lets continue.

3. When dutch took scarborough, el toco, st georges, dutch asked for white peace again and warned the french, if the war will go on for too long, it will become hard to stop it, relations will decrease and pvp-player will demand something in return for all their effort, time, ships, motivation they put in. French answer: we cannot accept, cos french community would feel like they were defeated if we agree on white peace while st. georges is a dutch port.

4. When we took part of our south-eastern territory we asked last time for white peace. French answer: No, there will come a patch in few days where 1st rates become meaningless and 4th rates will become important. French will easily retake all the ports then. Also the dutch should make this war as dirty as possible, so that the french council would learn how stupid it was to enter this war. So war continued again.

5. We went north and took ports like castries, bridgetown. The dutch council was already angry on the french and this time we (dutch & swedes) asked for ports as start of negotiations. As a result french would still have had 15 ports with silver and everything. We said, it´s not rly about the ports, it´s more about a strong sign of what the dutch have achieved and that french and dutch can deal with each other. If there is a good alternative to ports, we would also accept this. An idea was, a joint-mission against pirates. There was no alternative idea from french side, just some "oh our proud" stuff.

 

Other explanation we got from the french were:

- We had already a peace proposal, but it took us 2 weeks to come in touch with everyone.

- We wanted this war, cos dutch would come to help the swedes. In that time pirates are free again and can help the Spaniards against the British.

- We needed the war against the swedes, cos our community was divided and they hate the swedes, especially the Drunk clan.

 

None of these reasons actually convince us that there is a french way of diplomacy the dutch could actually like to deal with. The french never ever were a victim in that war. There was no need at all to attack the swedes and no need at all the refuse an ending of that war.

 

About brits, we never demanded anything about french diplomacy towards brits. We just told you, as long brits are weak, don´t have a council and don´t have PB-fleets, so long we would help the brits in order they would have to fight spaniards, pirates, danes and french. We would do this for the server balance and health. Something french are obviously not really interested in.

So we simply asked, what would the french do after a peace with us, cos they need an pvp-opponent. We asked, because we are honest in our way of diplomacy and we actually care about others needs.

 

 

 

and VP which should be satisfied we found an agreement with the ally it supposed to defend and to have the opportunity for continuing its war against pirates, all of this in exchange of three ports we have strong claims on. And I read that proposal has been rejected by the Dutch Council "with unanimous assent" ?

French give 2 ports to swedes, for silver and live oak so swedish nation can survive. -> Great move

(dutch gave alr. st. georges to the swedes for the silver, but somehow it´s french again. The swedes thought they could buy a peace with that but made the calculation without the french it seems)

French demand one swedish port for that in return. -> what?!

French demand 3 more dutch ports in addition. -> oh yeah, french finally f***** the relations to the dutch.

 

 

 

VP may wants that war for its own reasons, I am OK with that. But then, stop hidding behind a blurry will to bring peace with France, nor that sentence "We asked the french for peace but they always refusing". I can't take more of that shit which implies that French are bellicose and agressive when proposed unacceptable terms, whereas Dutch unanimously refuse peace with suitable terms for every belligerent.

To make it simple and clear: French seem to have a huge problem with their circulation of information within the nation. Together with all this french propaganda and their feeling of proud, dutch and french have a significant problem, cos it makes diplomacy between both nations impossible.

 

I´m just a player who wants to have fun in a game without deep mechanics. It´s not my job to be the information dealer of the french. My job is to make clear what the positions of the dutch and the dutch council are. And atm we have the bad feeling, that diplomacy is not possible with the french side.

 

So may the french believe what they like to believe, but don´t expect that the dutch will step back just so french can save their "proud" or their propaganda made picture of the situation.

Edited June 11, 2016 by praefect

[PIerrick de Badas]

Je suis ravi de voir que praefect va ouvrir les yeux de la communauté française quant au mauvais retour d'informations que les diplomates fr vont font, capitaines :-)

[Tenakha Kan]

C'est si généreux de sa part!

[Bougainville]

Lots of things

I read the rest in diagonal since the opening sentence "South-Eastern was neutral, then it became dutch, then french tried to conquer them" was a sheer joke to anyone who's been playing the game from January. Bothering to correct it with someone so keen on drawing the victim card would be an exercise in futility.

Anyhow, the point being that we're now at Pampatar just because of our own pride, I'm sure most of us can live with that as a compliment. But I'm afraid that if you're victim of anything, that would be your own preconceived ideas about pride and the "Grande Nation", as your kind likes to ironically label us all the time.

Times were good when we fought against DAS and pals around the Isla Margarita. Back then, there were more cannonballs and less excuses. Now all we are submitted to at the end of a battle, is an hourlong tantrum about how we've ruined the entire game by refusing to let our buttocks be painted orange? Surely the Dutch faction deserves better than this, and I wouldn't be surprised that many deserted it not because of our stubbornness, but the poor manners of its own leadership and representation.

 

Do we need to reroll Dutch and come fix it? Please let us know.

[Stilgar]

Praefect has summarized it all nicely.

 

The fact is the first French-Ducth war was won by the Dutch fair and square. The Dutch gave up many Eastern ports which never been under French control in the first place, just to give the French nation some space and keep the French players in game. And that dispite some resistance within the Dutch nation (speaking of the "poor manners of its own leadership and representation").

 

Now the French are even far from having innitiative, let alone winning this war and they make disproportionate demands. Perhaps time for the French to put aside their "delusions of grandeur" and show some class and common sense.

 

Hopefully, the conquest and PB mechanics will be fixed soon, interest will be back, and we shall fight another war soon enough.

Edited June 11, 2016 by Stilgar

[Glazo]

How fast French forgot about pece treaty after first war. We gave u back all in south-eastern corner, to prevent your players from leaving game or nation, even if this was very hard for some of our clans and made a big troubles inside Dutch nation.

Week ago, when u lost 20+ ports to Dutch and Sweden u asked for white peace. With score of war of -20 ports, 16 taken by us and 4+ by Sweden u asked for white peace. Im writing it twice to make it clear and to force you to remeber it. Now is unaceptaptabe for your side to accept white peace when u have 3 our ports?

Think about your diplomatic behaviour continued for weeks. Everytime you wanna something else, any step back in demads is for u "dishonor". This is no diplomacy, this is bullshit what are u doing frenchies.

Edited June 11, 2016 by Glazo

[Xaelendra]

I thank you, praefect, for let me know about the eventual lack of information transfer within France nation, unfortunately for you, I am a member of the french council and get at almost each meeting. Thus, I am fully aware of any proposal coming out of the French council, aware enough to know that all of what you are saying is or bullshit or free interpretation of your own about what we proposed you.

 

During first part of the war, from your first attack against us until we reconquered south-eastern corner of the map, french rejected any peace proposal, that's true. But that was not a problem of force equivalence, of territory, of anything you mention, but only because we enter that war beside Denmark-Norge to respect our agreement with them and we didn't want to make an unilateral peace excluding them, as you refused to do peace with us to respect your alliance with Swedes and vice versa. No white peace has been proposed to Dutch at that time, not even when you had Kingstown, for the very same reason, so i don't know what you are talking about Glazo...

 

In another hand, you seem mesure the winning balance by the number of ports taken by each side. It is not working like that. Let me tell you something: if the war continue, and that you wipe us until Fort-Royal, destructing all our ships by the way, we would not make peace if any reason pushes us to war (like a treaty with another nation, or direspectable peace terms to agree with). We would continue to tag you, with our grey unfitted basic cutters, until you get so sick of it that you decide to give us every ports until Fort Oranje. The purpose of french diplomacy is to find a way to peace, a way which might suits to every nation involved, and not to find a way to peace at any price including giving almost all our ports or breaking an alliance that we care about.

By the way, if winning balance had worked like that, Swedes would have been forced to make peace at the very first day when they had no more ports than Gustavia, and the war against Dutch would probably not have looked like it actually did. The difference between you and us, is that we never ever reproached Swedes not to have make peace with us at that time. That was their decision to keep on fighting, decision that we understood and respected (we probably would have done the same at their place).

 

Now, we found an agreement with Swedes (which does not need any of your appreciation, thanks all the same), and the only thing we ask in return is three ports of a contested area. These terms are respectable (not like asking everything but Fort-Royal and vicinity), Sweden and Danes, who are at the origin of that war, agreed with them (so there is no more about alliance to respect and allies not to abandon), and the only things that interfere now is actually your pride.

 

I will clear something again: we are closely watching to our diplomatic behaviour, that's why we keep honoring our alliances even while times are dark for us, and that's why we do not want to push that war even more far for useless reasons. I assume that every nation we have diplomatic relations with are pretty satisfy by that behaviour, including our actual swedish and british ennemies. The only one who isn't is actually you, and from our point of view and after research the problem is not coming from our side. Maybe it's time for self-examination.

[praefect]

 

During first part of the war, from your first attack against us until we reconquered south-eastern corner of the map, french rejected any peace proposal, that's true.

1. But that was not a problem of force equivalence, of territory, of anything you mention, but only because we enter that war beside Denmark-Norge to respect our agreement with them and we didn't want to make an unilateral peace excluding them,

2. as you refused to do peace with us to respect your alliance with Swedes and vice versa.

3. No white peace has been proposed to Dutch at that time, not even when you had Kingstown, for the very same reason, so i don't know what you are talking about Glazo...

1. That´s not what we got told. And the only answer I got from the danes was, they cannot agree on peace, cos the french don´t want to so far. So what took you 2,3 weeks to make a peace proposal?

2. There was no peace proposal from the french back that time we could have rejected. To who u guys gave this proposal?

3. [EDR] Eric & Kerrib de Badas stated that. There were even coalition peace talks on ur ts server where this was repeated.

 

So much about lack of information and my "bullshit".

 

 

In another hand, you seem mesure the winning balance by the number of ports taken by each side. It is not working like that. Let me tell you something: if the war continue, and that you wipe us until Fort-Royal, destructing all our ships by the way, we would not make peace if any reason pushes us to war (like a treaty with another nation, or direspectable peace terms to agree with). We would continue to tag you, with our grey unfitted basic cutters, until you get so sick of it that you decide to give us every ports until Fort Oranje. The purpose of french diplomacy is to find a way to peace, a way which might suits to every nation involved, and not to find a way to peace at any price including giving almost all our ports or breaking an alliance that we care about.

Same for us. Cos of that we tried to make a mutual peace at every single point in the war and convinced our community for long enough to accept a white peace.

 

 

By the way, if winning balance had worked like that, Swedes would have been forced to make peace at the very first day when they had no more ports than Gustavia, and the war against Dutch would probably not have looked like it actually did. The difference between you and us, is that we never ever reproached Swedes not to have make peace with us at that time. That was their decision to keep on fighting, decision that we understood and respected (we probably would have done the same at their place).

We told the swedes we would not fight an endless and unnecessary war for them, but we would help to defend their community to have a fair amount of ports and to get a peace. As far I know there was no peace proposal from french side towards swedes and our´s were rejected.

 

 

Now, we found an agreement with Swedes (which does not need any of your appreciation, thanks all the same), and the only thing we ask in return is three ports of a contested area. These terms are respectable (not like asking everything but Fort-Royal and vicinity), Sweden and Danes, who are at the origin of that war, agreed with them (so there is no more about alliance to respect and allies not to abandon), and the only things that interfere now is actually your pride.

Dutch and Swedes took over 28 french ports and french statement was, to ask for one single port is an insult for ur community. Now u said ports doesn´t matter at all before u continue to demand 3 of 3 conquered ports. At same time you guys blame us for beeing too proud? Srsly?! Just a few weeks ago u demanded an announcement from the dutch to state that St. Georges was given back to the french nation, cos ur community demands this for their honor and would split otherwise. We agreed based on that explanation and now u blame our pride?!

 

Furthermore the Dutch council agreed that the swedes can accept a separate peace with french and danish if they wish to or to save their community. And if dutch community would like to continue the war then it´s not about pride, but it´s cos this is a pvp server and cos french actually convince us to bee a natural enemy of us.

 

 

I will clear something again: we are closely watching to our diplomatic behaviour, that's why we keep honoring our alliances even while times are dark for us, and that's why we do not want to push that war even more far for useless reasons. I assume that every nation we have diplomatic relations with are pretty satisfy by that behaviour, including our actual swedish and british ennemies. The only one who isn't is actually you, and from our point of view and after research the problem is not coming from our side. Maybe it's time for self-examination.

That`s an very ...  interesting point of view u guys have. It clearly speaks for itself.

Edited June 12, 2016 by praefect

[horail]

Hey praefect

 

It seems that your informations are not really the same as mine (at the moment)

 

For st goerge Captbublle has explained  the situation.

 

The Swedes and Dutch seemed to have signed a defensive pact, they will support either one if they get attacked.

Also the French and Dutch agreed upon giving a silver port to the Swedes, cus they didnt have one yet.

As a sign of trust the dutch were planning to give st Georges back to the French, but they decided to let the Swedes have it.

 

 

So st goerges was retruned to the french, and the french gived it to the swedes.

 

You told me, not so long ago, that ports doesn't meen nothing, so french could give port to swedes..

 

I'm not sure, but how can we explain french players that french doesn't need port and they can give 3 or 4 port to the swedes, and the other way, dutch port are very important, so you don't want to give 3 port to french ?

 

Maybe you should wrote what did the dutch proposed 2 weeks ago to the french council, and i think eveyone will understand why did the most of the french players took that as an insult. You wanted 14 ports from the french... We are just talking about 3 ports.

 

 

You told me that you wanted to make peace and you are refusing juste because of 3 ports ? 

 

You'll stive have more port than us, so i don't understand why don't you want to make peace now.

Edited June 11, 2016 by horail

[PIerrick de Badas]

Eirc neither Kerrib are french diplomat. EDR is not a french clan.

Maybe did you mean EdR but as a co-gm on the clan i can say there neither Eirc neither Kerrib into our clan.

Thanks you to stay/become polite Praefect. You're supposed to be a diplomat, not a troll.

 

About the peace proposal we refuse

You never speak about a white peace...

You asked me what the french answserl would be about the peace and i told you french would refuse the peace. Not on any point have you clearly give us a peace proposition. It was just few world in middle of many and we never consider your peace proposal as something official neither you clearly said it could be a "white peace". You always propose french to stop fight and join against the pirates and stop fight the british. As said before by french, we never consider to change our alliance by force. We could change mind about some nation with time and diplomacy, (in both way) but not because someone ask us to love or to hate some nation.

When you official come to make a peace proposal, it was an insult. We asked the spanish diplomats to come to be a withness and it was barely chocked about your arrogance and your demands.

[praefect]

Hey Horail, how are you?

 

Thank´s for your post, lets have a look.

 

 

Hey praefect

 

It seems that your informations are not really the same as mine (at the moment)

 

For st goerge Captbublle has explained  the situation.

 

Quote

The Swedes and Dutch seemed to have signed a defensive pact, they will support either one if they get attacked.

Also the French and Dutch agreed upon giving a silver port to the Swedes, cus they didnt have one yet.

As a sign of trust the dutch were planning to give st Georges back to the French, but they decided to let the Swedes have it.

 

 

So st goerges was retruned to the french, and the french gived it to the swedes.

That´s correct mate. Dutch wanted that swedes have their silver, so we gave St. Georges to the swedes.

We got an unofficial and an official french diplo note afterwards. The unofficial note was, that french have a hard time with their hardliners who want to have back St. Georges, cos the french side would interpret the dutch-french peace, that St. Georges would definitely be handled over to the french after a while. But that´s not what was agreed on. If dutch wouldn´t agree to give St. georges to the french, flags would be crafted.

The official request was made in front of our council at same day at evening. In a much more friendly tone, the french diplo highlighted problems within the french community and in order to solve that we would have to make an announcement which would say, that we gave the port to the french and that the french gave it kindly to the swedes, as an act of grace. In the end we made an announcement where it stands, that both nations agreed on. Otherwise there would have been some kind of war within our council... Think the content of the final announcement was a fair and compromising move in the end.

 

 

You told me, not so long ago, that ports doesn't meen nothing, so french could give port to swedes..

 

I'm not sure, but how can we explain french players that french doesn't need port and they can give 3 or 4 port to the swedes, and the other way, dutch port are very important, so you don't want to give 3 port to french ?

Yes, I said that and I´m behind that. I´ll personally offer these ports to the french, if the dutch have the feeling, that the french nation somehow defeated us or deserve it as a gift.

 

So if u would take a lot of ports, if u would be better in PBs/ win PBs and all that in a fair way, such that our guys have to admit that the french navy beat us, you guys will get these ports and we agree on the new border.

On the other hand we can´t actually understand, why the french refuse to give away one single port while we took 28 and are demanding now 3 ports, when they took 3 while we only have like a half of a fleet ready atm... So where is the honor in that?

From our point of view we gonna wait for the next big patch when most of our pvp guy´s are back and then we can have a proper war, where the french are fighting to conquer our ports and we for theirs.

 

 

Maybe you should wrote what did the dutch proposed 2 weeks ago to the french council, and i think eveyone will understand why did the most of the french players took that as an insult. You wanted 14 ports from the french... We are just talking about 3 ports.

Yes, that´s true. Thing is, we warned the french diplos that if the war goes too long, it will become hard to stop it and pvp guys will demand something in return in the end, cos they had to leave haiti, were forced to stay in the east and our white peace proposals were rejected for non-understandable reasons which were given to us. But we stepped back from our demands to much less ports and we said, it can be solved by another sign of friendship, f.e. a good RPG-text from the french, where the enemy is honored, or by a joint mission against a third party, or anything else. But there was never a counter proposal by the french or something.

 

If french would have agreed to give us ports, we would have given them all to the swedes, cos based on their amount of players, they deserve more ports. So we never demanded the french to surrender, or that the dutch will have a huge profit or anything... we just wanted u on the peace table to speak with us about our and swedes needs too. The game has actually no deep game mechanics, so a lot has to be done via RPG to motivate the players. The french totally blocked that from our point of view and that´s the reason why we lost 2 and more PB fleets. If u agree or not, given that opinion u can imagine that the dutch council is not really in mood to make any kind of gift towards the french while we have a hard time in terms of activity.

 

 

 

You told me that you wanted to make peace and you are refusing juste because of 3 ports ? 

 

You'll stive have more port than us, so i don't understand why don't you want to make peace now ?

We basically don´t care about these ports, but we don´t see the circumstances to give the french these ports.

 

We could make them as a gift, but french are no friends of us actually and have enough own ports.

We could say, french would have more people in the nation and would deserve more ports, but that wouln´d be true, cos (as ur diplo agreed on), u guys only have more active players atm, cos u did some "good" propaganda which worked (with the result that dutch, british and swedish nation were called the "Nazi-Axis" the french have to resist by some french captains).  Based on players within the nation, normally the dutch nation is the bigger one.

We could say, that the french navy is better then ours and defeated us in a proper way, so that as RPG-players we would agree to praise the french and would give them ports. But that´s not the truth at all atm.

 

So from our point of view there is simply no reason at all to give the french ports.

Under these circumstances I fear, war will continue for a very long time.

 

Tbh, I invested a way too much time in the past weeks for getting a peace. I can remember a talk f.e., which gone from 10pm till 6am next day, that was only one talk of a lot more. If there are still miscommunications or missed info´s, only 2 possibilities are left: Language barrier or totally different cultures who can´t come along.

 

We read the the french posts today carefully, especially the ones from french council members, and will discuss this in our nation. I think there will be an announcement pretty soon...

 

 

----------------------------------------------------------------------

 

 

We asked the spanish diplomats to come to be a withness and it was barely chocked about your arrogance and your demands.

If spanish diplomats have a problem with the peace negotiation of swedes/dutch & danes/french they can join our ts and speak with us directly. Maybe we also invite US and Brits to join, cos french seem to like to invite the whole server.

 

 

 

EDR is not a french clan.

there neither Eirc neither Kerrib into our clan.

 

I´m sorry to Eric, I missed the little turner. Kerrib is ur TS name on our ts, isn´t it? Otherwise I apologize, sometimes I´m bad with names.^^ But shouldn´t be taken as another insult.

Edited June 12, 2016 by praefect

[EricKilla]

I dont know if he was some kind of spy, but nothing can beat french guy who as dutch "Boyaka" bought flag for Macanao to make our attack unpossible to perform, and after this he wrote in french on dutch chat "I can do what i want" and "i have 2 millions to buy flags".

At least it is better than your pirate friends at New Edinburgh.

[Glazo]

At least it is better than your pirate friends at New Edinburgh.

??? Sry i dont know what u writing about, but i was not logged to game last 2 days, maybe something new. I know about pirate guy with double account, who as Dutch buys flag for Baranquilla 5 days a row now to make it impossible to craft for Dutch. There is topic about it in Tribunal section.

[praefect]

At least 2 times for New Edinburgh too, thats true Glazo. :/

Edited June 11, 2016 by praefect

[horail]

Hey Horail, how are you? 

 

../..

 

Based on players within the nation, normally the dutch nation is the bigger one.

We could say, that the french navy is better then ours and defeated us in a proper way, so that as RPG-players we would agree to praise the french and would give them ports. But that´s not the truth at all atm.

 

So from our point of view there is simply no reason at all to give the french ports.

Under these circumstances I fear, war will continue for a very long time.

 

 

We read the the french posts today carefully, especially the one from french council members, and will discuss this in our nation. I think there will be an announcement pretty soon...

 

Feeling quite good this evening ;-)

 

Where can we see the number of players by nation ? french feilling is quite differents, even if some of our players as seems to stop, we still have more than 100 players connected every days and never got really less (expected the days when the dutch or the danes rolled over us).

 

Actually i think (but maybe i'm wrong) that you have 40-50 players connected on prime time.. so without an admin confirmation of the numbers of players both nation have, it's easly to shorcut and say that the french nation has actually twice players than the dutch..

 

So to your point of view, we should have mort ports than you ? that is fortunatly for you not our point of view.

 

Your nation have actually 34 ports, fench nation only have 33 ports.

 

Maybe someone should propose a peace "as is it now" and write something on "open peace port race" on the next wipe or something like this.

 

see you in game praefect ;-) 

Edited June 11, 2016 by horail

[praefect]

 

Where can we see the number of players by nation ? french feilling is quite differents, even if some of our players as seems to stop, we still have more than 100 players connected every days and never got really less (expected the days when the dutch or the danes rolled over us).

Actually i think (but maybe i'm wrong) that you have 40-50 players connected on prime time.. so without an admin confirmation of the numbers of players both nation have, it's easly to shorcut and say that the french nation has actually twice players than the dutch..

Yes, u have a valid point. I actually refer to the amount of "organized" people. More exactly I mean guys rdy on the nations TS server rdy to participate in PB´s or screening. I agree that the french nation has 100 active players on a daily base on their TS server.

Thing is, 1-2 month ago, an amount over 100 people on dutch ts was not unlikable and beside that nearly all our clans have own TS servers with additional players who are doing open world pvp. These days we have like 50 men in total if u count the danes and the afk guys in addition on our DN server.^^

 

But u r right, it´s more a feeling/guess then a proper official count.

 

 

 

Maybe someone should propose a peace "as is it now" and write something on "open peace port race" on the next wipe or something like this.

I´ll ask the council, but tbh, I do not see an agreement for that within near future.

But I agree in one point, after port wipe, the dutch nation will most likely have a look in the east.

 

 

Anyway, tnx for the nice chat and fair winds to you mate.

 

gl&hf

Edited June 11, 2016 by praefect

[Æthlstan]

Look. I had a long very well thought out post in the making, but it was erased. Here is the cliff notes version

 

French give Resource Ports to Swedish, and 3 strategic ports to Dutch as result of Black Friday

 

Swedes abuse given resource ports, ganking traders and lone French left and right. Swedish Council is now comprised of all major Swedish clans, and says the ganking will stop. It continues (as I can personally attest) so disgruntled french rightfully take back the ports the gankers were basing out of. 

 

The Dutch launch an attack on St Georges

 

In Response, the French take ~5 ports.

 

Sweden refuses to stop fighting and is whittled down to just Gustavia.

 

The tables turn, enabled by bug exploitation and underhandedness, which set French blood to boiling. Any possible peace at that stage was ended, as the French had their ports capped out from under them while they slept, and also viewed peace as impossible as long as their ally was continuing the fight. (the same excuse made by the Dutch, in fact)

 

The French fought on, reclaiming their territory, as dutch players, pissed off at giving up the fight with the pirates to fight the french, stop logging on daily. Clans consider re rolling to other nations, due to a strong dislike of new national leadership

 

This exodus of Dutch players, combined with the fix of the bugs, enables the French to reclaim almost all their territory, including the 3 french ports held by the Dutch after Black Friday

 

The Swedish agree to a peace deal I have not been made privy to yet. The dutch, who joined the war to aid sweden in their aggression, refuse to stop the war unless the French make concessions

 

The french maintain that they took back their ports that The Dutch took from them after black friday fair and square. From the looks of things, they may be going after 1 additional port that they did not have at Black Friday, in reparations for the Dutch attack.

 

 

only 1 port. Yet the dutch refuse to make peace

 

 

 

I am not on the council, I am not a diplomat, this is my view of things, taken from old PvP2 friends in VP, having participated in the war, and a few discussions with some Dutch diplomats.

[praefect]

This user was fed with a way too much propaganda. So if the whole french community believes this stuff actually, we will have a hard time to come along.^^

 

 

Btw: Who is this "new leadership" and who are these "dutch diplomats"? There aren´t so many new guys nor many dutch diplos, u know?^^

 

due to a strong dislike of new national leadership

some Dutch diplomats

Edited June 11, 2016 by praefect