[PvP1] The Dutch Join the War Against France

[Glazo]

Praefect never propose frencha white peace. (...)

 

C'mon, i know what i heard, why u simply lie? I dont understand it. If we have to do everything public, we can do it, here we go.

We offered you white peace many times including current proposition from our side. To be clear, current offer from Dutch Councill to French Councill is:

 

- white peace without additional circumstances. White peace means Pampatar, Carupano and Galdonas stays in Dutch territory (same as before this war), all ports east from Galdonas including St.George's will be part of French territory.

- about ports north of Fort-Royal French side have to make separate peace with Sweden or if you have allready consensus with Swedes we can announce 3 sided peace treaty, its up to you if u wanna make separate peace with us and another with Sweden or u wanna make it 3 sided.

 

End of peace treaty terms here, all below are speculations what can happend in future. Some of those points can be included in peace treaty or not, most important point of peace is "white peace"

 

- we are allied with UK and Sweden, If France will attack one of them, and those nations will call us to arm, we will help them in terms of our alliances and 3rd FRA-VP war will start

- we will probably fight Pirates in future, we asked you many times what will be your reaction if we'll be active in war against Pirates. AFAIK your current answer is "we will stay neutrall to this war"

- we asked you many times to not attack Brits in near future (like at least 2-3 weeks), couse it will make Brits simply ganked, can destroy their community, and can lead to 3rd FRA-VP war in terms of our aliance with UK

- we asked you to join our war aggainst Pirates, you refused several times, its ok. For you Pirates are friends and we're respecting it.

- we can make some pvp zone in Carupano-Galdonas Scarborough-El Toco areas if u find this kind of "closed area" fight funny, its no problem for us to agree for such zones even with PBs

 

If something is unclear for you in this peace treaty proposal just ask.

[PIerrick de Badas]

Glazo, i'm not lying. I begin to be a bit discourage with you trying to influence the guys byt rewritting history.

You always add into your peace proposal the fact that french have to stop attacking brits and join against pirates. If it's not written there don't be surprise it's all writtend on french private CSNF forum about the update in our diplomaty... I've check few minutes ago to be sure i was not missinterpreting the facts but it's almost everywhere...

[praefect]

 

You always add into your peace proposal the fact that french have to stop attacking brits and join against pirates.

Past white peace proposals where all without a link to the brits or pirates. It raised at first time, when we had castries already and brits begun to struggle in terms of activity and were not able anymore to form a council.

Pirate question were a topic of "how to successful continue the dutch-french alliance" and where to find an alternative pvp opponent than the brits.

 

If u mixed these both things, u total misunderstood us, as we already tried to explain u in the past.

Edited June 12, 2016 by praefect

[Alanxo]

The war between Holland and France is the stupidest action we could take. We were driven there by our game of alternating alliances in the North and also cause we have not been able to have common enemies.

 

Yet, our location should give us a steadfast alliance threatening us that on one front at a time.

We should adopt a benevolent neutrality with respect to our northern neighbors but does not commit us to an automatic intervention except to help mediate.

We should also stand together against any nation that claims to hegemony as have, in turn, the English yesterday and today pirats, ensuring thereby protecting weakened nations like the Spaniards, yesterday, and the US today.

 

Together, we could be a regulatory force that would help to balance the game.

 

To the question of the border, which is, so, howled in chorus by French cockerels  and Dutch lion cubs, I suggests to split the two.

Contested ports are El Toco, Galdonas, Carupano and Pampatar? Very good ! The East Galdonas remains French and West Carupano returns to Holland.

But to show, more, our mutual good will, each nation agrees to allow free access to its ports to smugglers of the other nation (A smuggler can trade but can not operate a building).

 

Finally, we need to bring to the attention of all the other nations that any attack against one will lead automatically to war with the second.

 

Currently, pirats lead an hegemonic war to which we must oppose, but if, taking advantage of our intervention, the English regain a war of conquest in the same style, then we would, together, fight them.

 

De oorlog tussen Nederland en Frankrijk is het stomste actie die we konden nemen. We waren er gedreven door onze spel van wisselende allianties in het noorden en ook dat we niet in staat zijn om gemeenschappelijke vijanden zijn geweest.

Toch is onze locatie moet ons een standvastige bondgenootschap bedreigt ons dat op het ene front tegelijk. We moeten een welwillende neutraliteit ten aanzien van vast te stellen om onze noorderburen, maar ons niet committeren aan een automatische interventie, zo niet om te helpen bemiddelen. We moeten ook samen op te komen tegen een natie die beweert hegemonie zoals hebben, op zijn beurt, het Engels gisteren en vandaag piraten, zodat daarmee de bescherming van verzwakte landen zoals de Spanjaarden, gisteren, en de VS vandaag.

Samen kunnen we een regulerende kracht die zou helpen om het spel in evenwicht zijn.

Op de vraag van de grens, en dat is zo, gehuil in koor haantjes het Frans en het Nederlands leeuwenwelpjes, I stelt voor om de twee te splitsen. Omstreden poorten zijn El Toco, Galdonas, Carupano en Pampatar? Zeer goed! Het Oosten blijft Galdonas Franse en West Carupano keert terug naar Nederland. Maar om, meer, onze goede wil te tonen, elke natie stemt ermee in om de vrije toegang tot zijn havens aan smokkelaars van een andere natie (A smokkelaar kan de handel, maar kan een gebouw niet werken) mogelijk te maken. Tot slot moeten we aan alle andere volken, die elke aanval tegen een automatisch zal leiden tot oorlog met de tweede kennen.

Op dit moment, Piraten leiden een hegemonische oorlog die we moeten bestrijden, maar als, gebruik te maken van onze interventies, het Engels weer een oorlog van verovering in dezelfde stijl, dan zouden we samen strijden hen.

 

 

La guerre entre la Hollande et la France est l'action la plus stupide que nous pouvions mener. Nous y avons été entraînés par notre jeu d'alliances alternées au Nord et, aussi, par le fait que nous n'avons pas su avoir d'ennemis communs.

Pourtant, notre situation géographique devrait nous inciter à une alliance indéfectible ne nous mettant en danger que sur un seul front à la fois. Nous devrions adopter une neutralité bienveillante vis à vis de nos voisins du Nord mais qui ne nous engage pas à une intervention automatique si ce n'est pour aider à une médiation. Nous devrions, aussi, faire front commun contre tout autre nation qui prétendrait à l’hégémonie comme l'ont fait, tour à tour, les Anglais, hier, et les pirates aujourd'hui, assurant, de ce fait la protection des nations affaiblies comme les Espagnols, hier, et les américains, aujourd'hui.

Ensembles, nous pourrions être une force de régulation qui aiderait à équilibrer le jeu.

Pour la question de notre frontière, qui fait, tellement, hurler en chœur les petits coqs Français et les lionceaux Hollandais, je suggère de couper la poire en deux. Les ports contestés sont El Toco, Galdonas, Carupano et Pampatar ? Très bien ! L'Est de Galdonas reste Français et l'Ouest de Carupano revient à la Hollande. Mais pour montrer, davantage, notre bonne volonté, chaque nation accepte de permettre l’accès libre de ses ports aux contrebandiers de l'autre nation (Un contrebandier peut faire commerce mais ne peut pas exploiter un building). Enfin, nous devons faire savoir à toutes les autres nations que toute attaque contre l'un entraînera, automatiquement la guerre avec le second.

Actuellement, les pirates mènent une guerre hégémonique à laquelle nous devrions nous opposer, mais si, profitant de notre intervention, les Anglais reprenaient une guerre de conquête du même style, alors nous irions, ensembles, les combattre.

 

Alanxo Basque Privateer

Edited June 12, 2016 by Alanxo

[pietjenoob]

 

The war between Holland and France is the stupidest action we could take. We were driven there by our game of alternating alliances in the North and also cause we have not been able to have common enemies.

 

Yet, our location should give us a steadfast alliance threatening us that on one front at a time.

We should adopt a benevolent neutrality with respect to our northern neighbors but does not commit us to an automatic intervention except to help mediate.

We should also stand together against any nation that claims to hegemony as have, in turn, the English yesterday and today pirats, ensuring thereby protecting weakened nations like the Spaniards, yesterday, and the US today.

 

Together, we could be a regulatory force that would help to balance the game.

 

To the question of the border, which is, so, howled in chorus by French cockerels  and Dutch lion cubs, I suggests to split the two.

Contested ports are El Toco, Galdonas, Carupano and Pampatar? Very good ! The East Galdonas remains French and West Carupano returns to Holland.

But to show, more, our mutual good will, each nation agrees to allow free access to its ports to smugglers of the other nation (A smuggler can trade but can not operate a building).

 

Finally, we need to bring to the attention of all the other nations that any attack against one will lead automatically to war with the second.

 

Currently, pirats lead an hegemonic war to which we must oppose, but if, taking advantage of our intervention, the English regain a war of conquest in the same style, then we would, together, fight them.

 

De oorlog tussen Nederland en Frankrijk is het stomste actie die we konden nemen. We waren er gedreven door onze spel van wisselende allianties in het noorden en ook dat we niet in staat zijn om gemeenschappelijke vijanden zijn geweest.

Toch is onze locatie moet ons een standvastige bondgenootschap bedreigt ons dat op het ene front tegelijk. We moeten een welwillende neutraliteit ten aanzien van vast te stellen om onze noorderburen, maar ons niet committeren aan een automatische interventie, zo niet om te helpen bemiddelen. We moeten ook samen op te komen tegen een natie die beweert hegemonie zoals hebben, op zijn beurt, het Engels gisteren en vandaag piraten, zodat daarmee de bescherming van verzwakte landen zoals de Spanjaarden, gisteren, en de VS vandaag.

Samen kunnen we een regulerende kracht die zou helpen om het spel in evenwicht zijn.

Op de vraag van de grens, en dat is zo, gehuil in koor haantjes het Frans en het Nederlands leeuwenwelpjes, I stelt voor om de twee te splitsen. Omstreden poorten zijn El Toco, Galdonas, Carupano en Pampatar? Zeer goed! Het Oosten blijft Galdonas Franse en West Carupano keert terug naar Nederland. Maar om, meer, onze goede wil te tonen, elke natie stemt ermee in om de vrije toegang tot zijn havens aan smokkelaars van een andere natie (A smokkelaar kan de handel, maar kan een gebouw niet werken) mogelijk te maken. Tot slot moeten we aan alle andere volken, die elke aanval tegen een automatisch zal leiden tot oorlog met de tweede kennen.

Op dit moment, Piraten leiden een hegemonische oorlog die we moeten bestrijden, maar als, gebruik te maken van onze interventies, het Engels weer een oorlog van verovering in dezelfde stijl, dan zouden we samen strijden hen.

 

 

La guerre entre la Hollande et la France est l'action la plus stupide que nous pouvions mener. Nous y avons été entraînés par notre jeu d'alliances alternées au Nord et, aussi, par le fait que nous n'avons pas su avoir d'ennemis communs.

Pourtant, notre situation géographique devrait nous inciter à une alliance indéfectible ne nous mettant en danger que sur un seul front à la fois. Nous devrions adopter une neutralité bienveillante vis à vis de nos voisins du Nord mais qui ne nous engage pas à une intervention automatique si ce n'est pour aider à une médiation. Nous devrions, aussi, faire front commun contre tout autre nation qui prétendrait à l’hégémonie comme l'ont fait, tour à tour, les Anglais, hier, et les pirates aujourd'hui, assurant, de ce fait la protection des nations affaiblies comme les Espagnols, hier, et les américains, aujourd'hui.

Ensembles, nous pourrions être une force de régulation qui aiderait à équilibrer le jeu.

Pour la question de notre frontière, qui fait, tellement, hurler en chœur les petits coqs Français et les lionceaux Hollandais, je suggère de couper la poire en deux. Les ports contestés sont El Toco, Galdonas, Carupano et Pampatar ? Très bien ! L'Est de Galdonas reste Français et l'Ouest de Carupano revient à la Hollande. Mais pour montrer, davantage, notre bonne volonté, chaque nation accepte de permettre l’accès libre de ses ports aux contrebandiers de l'autre nation (Un contrebandier peut faire commerce mais ne peut pas exploiter un building). Enfin, nous devons faire savoir à toutes les autres nations que toute attaque contre l'un entraînera, automatiquement la guerre avec le second.

Actuellement, les pirates mènent une guerre hégémonique à laquelle nous devrions nous opposer, mais si, profitant de notre intervention, les Anglais reprenaient une guerre de conquête du même style, alors nous irions, ensembles, les combattre.

 

Alanxo Basque Privateer

 

if i may ask who are you?

We as Dutch are trying to get the french so far that they are willing/joining us to fight the pirates and not attack the british preferably, but they still consider Pampatar Carupano and Galdonas theirs whilst it is been Dutch for over 4 months. The dutch never wanted this war only allies against the pirates

Every answer we got on and from their side there was no counter-offer so far is no untill they had Pampatar galdonas and carupano then they came with demands and celebrating that they have pushed us back whilst we let them. 

The sad fact is also still that they see the british as an enternal enemy whilst that should be pirates

but the unfortunate fact is still that they will not even want to listen to anything. i have send an own innitative peace proposal to Horail for reviewing by the french counsil which was approved by our Diplomat Praefect in which stated that they are willing so not forcing to join forces against the pirates together with Sweden and with help of UK and US (us because of distance)

Edited June 12, 2016 by pietjenoob

[Alanxo]

At the first question, i m a French Privateer, scouting for EdR in any war and, at other time, a smug.... euh, an honest French Trader. Nothing more.

 

But, i m happy than to see we are ok on most of the points.

 

Except one, English can't be considered as an eternal ennemy but Brit was the first one to pretend to the hegemony. Actually, in our Aliance spirit we ll no fight to help English but to fight the Pirates hegemony. 

 

I consider than our geographical situation must force us in respectuous and preferential alliance. 

 

And i suggest it now, before than the French Cockerels make it more difficult for the Dutch Lion cubs, and reciprocally.

 

Alanxo diplomat student

Edited June 12, 2016 by Alanxo

[pietjenoob]

Why should they be the eternal enemy? Because it serves better your goals.

 

 

Im also a bit surprised your guys talk about balance between factions when the british had, weeks ago, about 90 ports and you were allies.

oke then i shall correct myself on that part but some french captain see the British as their Main enemy

Well i want to correct you on the part of the British and dutch. The dutch and British has for most of the time being friendly and helpful to each other. 

The Dutch High council is willing to make it an alliance but since their is no formal Council on the British part nobody can can accept it on that their side, but the dutch and British see them selfs to a certain extent allies of each other unofficially. 

[Alanxo]

ok, so if the Dutch high council prefers an alliance with Brit, Froggies must look elsewhere ! What a pity !

 

Alanxo froggy smuggler

[pietjenoob]

ok, so if the Dutch high council prefers an alliance with Brit, Froggies must look elsewhere ! What a pity !

 

Alanxo froggy smuggler

Why if i may ask? i have never said anything about the fact that we, Dutch and French, can have an alliance or not

[praefect]

 

Im also a bit surprised your guys talk about balance between factions when the british had, weeks ago, about 90 ports and you were allies.

The british fought pirates, spaniards, danish and french, while all of these faction refuse to have peace with the brits. Ur expectation here is that we join that war at a time, where brits warned they would go pirates if nothing will change in diplomacy and more factions would join the war? These guys were tried and sought for a break. Now lot of them are gone.

 

 

 

This is like I read this sentence: The French have to be submitted by the will of the Dutch fighting its enemies even if this means helping the British (allies of the Dutch) and fighting their common enemy, the Pirates (faction which have helped the French before). What will be the next demand for a succesful alliance between the Dutch and the French?

And that´s what happen: french denied the sense of having an alliance with us, cos we are not attacking the brits and so we wouldn´t have a common enemy. We offered to have a joint mission against pirates, french refused, we accepted that.

Now read ur text again and discover ur mistake.

 

 

 

You also talk about hegemony of a nation. But, if Britain conquest the ports owned by the Pirates right now, the new ("old") hegemony will be back. Then, Will you fight the British for restoring balance between factions? Will you be worried about the pirate playerbase and their activity on the game? Lets be honest with yourselves, guys. You won´t.

Our RPG is, that we don´t agree on pirates as a nation and so we will fight them till most of them joint proper nations and their population is on a proper level.

Would we review our alliance with the brits if they become clearly unhealthy for the server? Yes, we would, that was one of the first things we told them in the alliance talks. Would u guys do the same?

 

Honest enough?

[Alanxo]

ok, your choice !

 

The best allied for France was and is always our Spanish friends !

 

Why to look elsewhere ?

 

Alanxo half Spanish, half French Smuggler

[Alanxo]

So can i suggest to offer a Spanish place in our south, for exemple, El Toco, Scarborough, Galdonas and so on to have a Spanish fleet here and ask for some ports around Cuba to have a French fleet there !

 

Sounds good for me !

 

Alanxo, faithful in friendship Smuggler 

[Lytse Pier]

ok, so if the Dutch high council prefers an alliance with Brit, Froggies must look elsewhere ! What a pity !

 

Alanxo froggy smuggler

 

We prefer not to fight the French again in a third war since Januari, Alanxo. I am not sure that Dutch players are then going to keep playing the game. That is all there is to it. Like I said, this is between the French Nation and the Dutch Nation player communities. Do we fight 'till one of our player groups says "goodbye game" or do we shake a firm and friendly hand and give it a rest for a while, so our communities can explore different parts of the map, explore some other possibilities of the game, instead of the same little piece of the map we are sailing as of a few months now or turning to other games.

 

You know what we prefer and I don't have to mention we are serious about it.

[Alanxo]

If you read my first post about, Lytse, you ll see than i have exactly same idea as you, but our friend Pietjenoob  seem prefer an harder way to base our alliance.

 

Praefect opened a door with "Would we review our alliance with the brits if they become clearly unhealthy for the server? Yes, we would, that was one of the first things we told them in the alliance talks. Would u guys do the same?"

 

I said exactly the same "Currently, pirats lead an hegemonic war to which we must oppose, but if, taking advantage of our intervention, the English regain a war of conquest in the same style, then we would, together, fight them" With a little nuance "English can't be considered as an eternal ennemy but Brit was the first one to pretend to the hegemony. Actually, in our Aliance spirit we ll no fight to help English but to fight the Pirates hegemony. "

 

Personally, as a trader first and as Smuggler now on Maracaibo lake, i tried to explore all the map and other way to play this game, but now i wish the end of this brotherly war.

 

Alanxo elusive Smuggler

 

 

 

Edited June 12, 2016 by Alanxo

[Glazo]

Glazo, i'm not lying. I begin to be a bit discourage with you trying to influence the guys byt rewritting history.

You always add into your peace proposal the fact that french have to stop attacking brits and join against pirates. If it's not written there don't be surprise it's all writtend on french private CSNF forum about the update in our diplomaty... I've check few minutes ago to be sure i was not missinterpreting the facts but it's almost everywhere...

 

i can only paste you again what i wrote few posts above. Current peace offer from Dutch Councill to French Councill is:

 

- white peace without additional circumstances. White peace means Pampatar, Carupano and Galdonas stays in Dutch territory (same as before this war), all ports east from Galdonas including St.George's will be part of French territory.

- about ports north of Fort-Royal French side have to make separate peace with Sweden or if you have allready consensus with Swedes we can announce 3 sided peace treaty, its up to you if u wanna make separate peace with us and another with Sweden or u wanna make it 3 sided.

 

I dont see there anything about Brits, Pirates or any other faction except Sweden. Sadly you dont answer for offer, i must say... as allways. We just waiting for answer from French side. i wanna make it public to avoid any future misunderstandings. And im sure our earlier propositions about white peace were same as above. Preafect asked you to not attack Brits in near future or join us to attack Pirates, but it was not necessary to include as points of peace treaty. i was there when we talked about it, so maybe you missunderstood or didnt pay attention for every word, it happens, i dont blame you for that. Just wanna make things clear. You have our simple offer above, in my opinion it cant be more simple as it is now.

Edited June 12, 2016 by Glazo

[praefect]

 

Thats a problem with the British lack of diplomacy skills. I will give you an example, in a diplomatic meeting, the british diplo said that if we didnt accept his peace proposal several british fleets would be camping 24/7 the spanish capital. How should you answer to that?

Even they would lack in diplo skills like u say, I would favor a game with brits than without. And so far I do not have the impression that brits are all bad. But its open for ur diplo work to convince us of something else than that.

 

 

You have to read then yours again cause Im not talking about the peace conditions.

Nor I do. It´s a perfect response to ur lack of information and misunderstanding of given content.

 

 

 

I dont think Pirates should work as a nation but I dont believe neither that I have the right to force anyone to play where I like.

We don´t try to force them to change nation, we try to convince them, that proper nations should be filled with players.

It´s a PvP server and we do our RPG here, don´t see a problem in that.

 

 

 

The guardian of the server . But where were all these great principles when Britain steamrolled other nations like Spain?

We convinced the brits to start peace talks with spain and french and danish. I got said, that spaniards and french refused peace talks, cos they consider brits as an arch-enemy and danes kicked the brits diplo from the server.

I personally spoke with french and danes about the brits and got same answers.

 

So what you expect from us?

 

We don´t see us as guardians, we are just normal people who seek for a healthy and funny game. We would love to see that all communities would be behind that.

Edited June 12, 2016 by praefect

[whynotfr]

 

 

@whynotfr

 

If you are member of French Councill, then looks like u wasnt informed about all our peace proposals.Those were many in different stages of war, and only once we made proposal which included ports in south-east corner for us and Swedes asked for part of Guadelupe.

 

 

I know It, But you are retarded on victory time. We, French will show you how to preserve honnor during winning time. 

[pietjenoob]

I know It, But you are retarded on victory time. We, French will show you how to preserve honnor during winning time.

Well then if you want to show honour then be honourable and say something else then no, come with a offer yourself that is reasonable for everybody and not for yourself. Remember this game needs players to find the missing, funny and shitty bugs/content and make the gameplayable for everybody not for yourself. I know our diplo were ready to talk about peace without any problems you got have trinidad back, they got no from the french and now you are demanding ports that is ridiculous. And calls himself a gentle ....

[Lytse Pier]

 

If you read my first post about, Lytse, you ll see than i have exactly same idea as you, but our friend Pietjenoob  seem prefer an harder way to base our alliance.

 

Praefect opened a door with "Would we review our alliance with the brits if they become clearly unhealthy for the server? Yes, we would, that was one of the first things we told them in the alliance talks. Would u guys do the same?"

 

I said exactly the same "Currently, pirats lead an hegemonic war to which we must oppose, but if, taking advantage of our intervention, the English regain a war of conquest in the same style, then we would, together, fight them" With a little nuance "English can't be considered as an eternal ennemy but Brit was the first one to pretend to the hegemony. Actually, in our Aliance spirit we ll no fight to help English but to fight the Pirates hegemony. "

 

Personally, as a trader first and as Smuggler now on Maracaibo lake, i tried to explore all the map and other way to play this game, but now i wish the end of this brotherly war.

 

Alanxo elusive Smuggler

 

 

 

 

 

If the voices of reason keep being heard and listened to, we should be enjoying this game hopefully again soon!

[praefect]

 

I know It, But you are retarded on victory time. We, French will show you how to preserve honnor during winning time.

Ya, good example of french attitude and their interpretation of honor here...

Edited June 13, 2016 by praefect

[PIerrick de Badas]

The french council takes places yesterday :

We decide 2 things :

- The first one is dealing with the relations between Praefect and me.

Looking that thoses are barely on the edge, it has been decide to affect a new captain in charge of french/Dutch diplomacy.

We hope he would represent us with talent and we give him what is necessary to lead and finish peace proposals.

This captain is Tenakha From ACR society

 

- The second thing is about peace and will be discut between our diplomat and yours.

 

Fair winds

[Tenakha Kan]

As Kierrip said, I will take over diplomacy with the Dutch Council. I already had a good discussion with Praefect and pietjenoob. After our Council, decisions were made, I would like to meet again to share with you our official position and proposals and discuss the situation..

 

I hope our talks will go smoothly, and our relations will improve afterward

 

I will be available at around 20h (UTC+2) on your TS

[Lytse Pier]

Goodmorning Kierrip,

Thank you for the follow-up, and clear statement. I wish to thank you and the French Council that a choice for a definitive peace is the basis for the talks on both sides now.

Both sides have fought hard and fierce, never forgetting we are all players wanting the same thing. A fair fight, always to win , but never to destroy.

Merci beaucoup!

[Lestan de Lioncourt]

Both sides have fought hard and fierce, never forgetting we are all players wanting the same thing. A fair fight, always to win , but never to destroy.

 

 

 

Great words. It's only a game, it's not serious... If we are all tired of this war, war is over, simple logic.

[Nash]

So I can get back to La tortue and hunt pyrats without worry about my home water again Soon™

Edited June 13, 2016 by Nash