So how long until the pirates take over and what will happen to the game when they do?

[mouse of war]

At first I was just thinking people wanted the pirate faction to change, as it is not historicaly correct that they could cap ports etc. But now that I am a bit more experienced in the game I do agree that the pirate nation has to be transformed. The pirates are just a nation with benefits, they are not the free for all faction they should be. Its just a faction that has some game mechanics implemented, that are great if all players play the game like pirates, but why would the pirates fight eachother if they can fight the Brits together? or the USA together? Most of them don't even bother with the danish. These are all things I notice in PvP1 mind you.

 

I have heard about some of them realy being pirates, and every now and then I see pirates raiding jamaica, that is great... The way it should be, always there when you realy don't need them.

I am not going in depth, as I don't want to start the so called "Forum PvP", its bad enough they don't fight eachother in real PvP, but if they even engaged in helping other nations to establish a base of attack against another nation. Those are not pirates and therefor should not have the exploitable game mechanics.

 

I have to admit I don't realy see any good solutions to this problem, as if it is too drastic we might just lose to much pirate players. But the pirate nation will need a bit of rework to not totaly ruin it for everybody else.

It is a hard nut to crack.

 

A good solution is two factions:

 

1. A pirate nation that plays by exactly the same rules as other nations

2. A 'real' pirate faction that has pros and cons to make it more 'piratey'

 

This gives all the current pirates a choice and therefore no reason to quit the game - unless they are hooked on the unfair advantages and exploits available to the current pirate faction. And they would be no great loss IMHO

[Migui]

Pirates and Zombie Pirates

[victor]

Really would not mind starting over again from scratch (meaning all XP being zero)!

 

You are evil-minded, mate . And I mean ... seriously . Do not ever, never ... ever try to propose such thing!

Edited April 6, 2016 by victor

[Lord Vicious]

I would actually love to have met the man that could convince 1100 men to crew his 1st rate and split the bounty of any captured ships and cargo That man would have a hell of a charisma.

 

Pirates were pirates out of desire of wealth. Taking more men to split the gains between that was needed was directly opposed to their goals.

A pirate runned 50k ppl under his command and even in the caribbean some pirates leaded thousand of them.

All this historical wannabe that know nothing about history, and want pirates to be what they think should be, becouse pirate have a huge pop and with same chance of other nation they rofltstompyou

Majority still confuse a game based on an age/era and history re-inactment, maybe pirate in this game will be more strong and organized then real ones

When usa was strong and owned 1/4? of the map i not see anyone complaining that historically usa not owned first rates or where anywhere that strong compared to the age this game is based on, but when we talk about pirates, suddently they all should be in rafts

Edited April 6, 2016 by Lord Vicious

[Mrdoomed]

A pirate runned 50k ppl under his command and even in the caribbean some pirates leaded thousand of them.

All this historical wannabe that know nothing about history, and want pirates to be what they think should be, becouse pirate have a huge pop and with same chance of other nation they rofltstompyou

Majority still confuse a game based on an age/era and history re-inactment, maybe pirate in this game will be more strong and organized then real ones

When usa was strong and owned 1/4? of the map i not see anyone complaining that historically usa not owned first rates or where anywhere that strong compared to the age this game is based on, but when we talk about pirates, suddently they all should be in rafts

** correction they want historical reenactment for pirates ONLY all other factions can stray from history all they want**

[KrakkenSmacken]

 

Because these mechanics are still WIP and are, at present, unfinished, players are answering this question as follows:

 

Once a given nation becomes extremely dominant, a certain percent of its playerbase winds up defecting to one or more of the smaller nations, so they can find more and better PVP, have new challenges, conquer (or re-conquer) ports, and participate in the underdog / "Phoenix Rises" comeback story.

 

This has already happened on PVP1 - a few weeks ago, the USA faction was tremendously dominant, now they are being rolfstomped all the way back to Charleston... in large part, by a bunch of USA defectors who went to Pirates.

 

If my theory is correct, in a few days / weeks, we'll see a bunch of players from Pirates defect to the USA and other smaller factions so that they can help with the reconquista of that faction's lost territory, avenge real or imagined insults inflicted upon them by self-styled clan or faction leadership, etc. And of course the general idea is to get plenty of PVP.

 

Obviously this is not any kind of longterm solution, just what I see happening in the real world absent external influences / inducements.

 

Also, Wilson09's post makes my point nicely:

 

 

I rest my case.

 

Relying on the natural behavior of a limited number of players in an Alpha is fine for now. Eventually after release some group with a charismatic and well organized leadership will form that will stabilize against that behavior.

 

Hell, a very well organized large group, Goons for example, could lock down multiple nations. 

 

There needs to be a mechanics solution to players effectively locking other players out of the game, or this will end up being EVE on the sea.  Count on it.

If it's done correctly then there will not be a need for map resets.

How many players do you expect to stay around if they have to start over every few weeks/months rebuying outpost, starting over with production buildings, rebuy/rebuild all their ships, etc?

 

If it's part an parcel with the game, a race between factions to build up to a finale climax, and an expected part of the game, I would expect quite a few more than will stick around for a never ending war with no resolution or single nation lock down.

[Cragger]

A pirate runned 50k ppl under his command and even in the caribbean some pirates leaded thousand of them.

All this historical wannabe that know nothing about history, and want pirates to be what they think should be, becouse pirate have a huge pop and with same chance of other nation they rofltstompyou

Majority still confuse a game based on an age/era and history re-inactment, maybe pirate in this game will be more strong and organized then real ones

When usa was strong and owned 1/4? of the map i not see anyone complaining that historically usa not owned first rates or where anywhere that strong compared to the age this game is based on, but when we talk about pirates, suddently they all should be in rafts

 

Cite examples with references instead of making off the wall claims. 

 

And before you try to cite anything involving the Barbary States realize why they are called the Barbary 'States'. The Corsairs were supported by them, a sovereign nation. They where a nation that engaged in the act of piracy for ransom. Not independent men doing it for wealth and gain without the logistical support of a nation. Would love to see pirates convince men to work fields, fish, work in ship yards for potential pay if they ever brought in some loot. Those men would be better off doing so in their homeland  

[Migui]

Nothing is too big to last forever.

 

This will be like EVE in 2D when i can spin my ship in the port

 

Sometimes i undock and just do it. But no counter.

Edited April 6, 2016 by Migui

[The Spud]

** correction they want historical reenactment for pirates ONLY all other factions can stray from history all they want**

 

 

The only problem with the way the pirate faction is set up and is working (at least on PvP1), is that the mechanics they have is set up for a faction that is a free for all, every man for himself faction. While the faction is actualy working as a nation, helping eachother. So to speak the game is set up wrong for the way the pirates would like to play their faction at this time.

 

If they want to play this game as another faction, I have no problem with that, no matter if this is historicaly correct or not, but they need the same game mechanics as a nation then. So all nations fight with the same benefits and the same drawbacks, to me that is only fair.

 

We have to take in account that the pirate nation has probably about the highest number of active players, they are big part of the regular player base. They play the game the way they play because that is how they like it. We should not ask them to go back to owning only 4 or 5 ports. To make them only craft ships up to a frig, and cap all the rest, just for the sake of making it more historicaly correct (however that is being contested in other posts). Let the pirate faction do whatever they want to do, just give them the same game mechanics as any other nation has.

[Migui]

Pirates should be busy trying to find the One Piece and speaking pirate language. Also they should have half of their screen in black because of the eye patch.

[Justme]

** correction they want historical reenactment for pirates ONLY all other factions can stray from history all they want**

Once again you have no idea what the issue at hand is.

[Mrdoomed]

The only problem with the way the pirate faction is set up and is working (at least on PvP1), is that the mechanics they have is set up for a faction that is a free for all, every man for himself faction. While the faction is actualy working as a nation, helping eachother. So to speak the game is set up wrong for the way the pirates would like to play their faction at this time.

If they want to play this game as another faction, I have no problem with that, no matter if this is historicaly correct or not, but they need the same game mechanics as a nation then. So all nations fight with the same benefits and the same drawbacks, to me that is only fair.

We have to take in account that the pirate nation has probably about the highest number of active players, they are big part of the regular player base. They play the game the way they play because that is how they like it. We should not ask them to go back to owning only 4 or 5 ports. To make them only craft ships up to a frig, and cap all the rest, just for the sake of making it more historicaly correct (however that is being contested in other posts). Let the pirate faction do whatever they want to do, just give them the same game mechanics as any other nation has.

Nothing at allwrong with what you say. I couldn't agree more . Ive made suggestions on in faction pvp that would solve this and reward no xp. I just dont make sence the way it is.

My complaint is with the 4 or 5 guys ho make a new post everyday about how unfair and non historic the pirates are BUT have no problem or clue about all the things not historical or correct about nationals. Its allways about Just them and they scream in unison just me just me just me its about justme.

Edited April 6, 2016 by Mrdoomed

[Babble]

Pirate Problem solution summary:

 

1.)Make letters of pardon a thing.  Any player can purchase a letter of pardon from the admiralty to raise their standing with that nation. Eventually being given the option of become a member of that nation.  (In essence a faction change game mechanic the opposite direction as the pirate one.)

 

2.)1/2 XP against NPCs.  1.5x XP against players other then pirates.  NO XP against other pirates. 

 

3.)1.2 times goods from NPC traders.  1.5 times good from player traders.

 

4.)Any national gets 1.5 x XP for sinking a pirate.

 

5.)Limit pirate craftable ship level to Pirate Frigate.

 

6.)Buff Pirate Frigate into Glass cannon

 

7.)Limit total number of ports pirates can control to 14.  Any port they capture after that reverts to a neutral port.

 

8.)Pirate conquest victory achieved by creating anarchy.  AKA more netural ports then national.

 

 

 

Turn it into hardmode pvp faction and the rest will sort itself out.

[Hethwill]

What's a glass cannon ?

[Galileus]

3.)1.2 times goods from NPC traders.  1.5 times good from player traders.

 

1) Pirate captures a trader and gets 100 units of unobtanium

2) Pirate trades the unobtanium and captured trader back to his pal

3) Pirate captures a trader and gets 150 units of unobtanium

4) Pirate trades the unobtanium and captured trader back to his pal

5) Pirate captures a trader and gets 225 units of unobtanium

6) Pirate trades the unobtanium and captured trader back to his pal

7) Pirate captures a trader and gets 338 units of unobtanium

8) Pirate trades the unobtanium and captured trader back to his pal

9) Pirate captures a trader and gets 506 units of unobtanium

10) Pirate trades the unobtanium and captured trader back to his pal

 

Sigh. Do people ever think about the consequences of their ideas...?

[Justme]

What's a glass cannon ?

A weapon/vehicle that hits really hard but can't take much damage in return.

[Babble]

1) Pirate captures a trader and gets 100 units of unobtanium

2) Pirate trades the unobtanium and captured trader back to his pal

3) Pirate captures a trader and gets 150 units of unobtanium

4) Pirate trades the unobtanium and captured trader back to his pal

5) Pirate captures a trader and gets 225 units of unobtanium

6) Pirate trades the unobtanium and captured trader back to his pal

7) Pirate captures a trader and gets 338 units of unobtanium

8) Pirate trades the unobtanium and captured trader back to his pal

9) Pirate captures a trader and gets 506 units of unobtanium

10) Pirate trades the unobtanium and captured trader back to his pal

 

Sigh. Do people ever think about the consequences of their ideas...?

So you make the no XP from pirate vs pirate combat to no increased goods.   Not difficult to solve the issue.

 

None of the problems this game has are very difficult to solve.  Just takes a willingness to solve them and think rationally.

 

Claiming nothing will work does nothing to help the situation.

 

The goal is to limit the ports controllable by the pirate faction but not completely gimp their production.  At the same time promote actual piracy against players. 

Edited April 6, 2016 by Babble

[Prater]

I've long said make the pirates exactly like a nation.  Keep the black flag.  Keep the name.  You choose pirate at character creation.  You cannot become pirate.  Pirates are now a nation.

 

Make a separate criminal mode.  Any national, this now includes the pirate nation, who initiates an attack on a friendly ship on the open sea becomes a criminal, where they can be freely attacked by all players (even same nation mates) until they lose a greater or equal ship than the one they attacked.  Killing same nation mates does not grant you xp.  If you sink or capture a criminal, you get a bounty in gold paid to you (like a mission reward), based upon the ship they are in (to prevent farming).  So if they are in a smaller ship like a Lynx, the bounty is small.  They cannot enter their nation ports (only free ports) until they are no longer a criminal.

[Rouleur]

I like Praters thinking - in addition I would add that choosing pirate at start should allow you to accept a nations letter of marque - effectively making you an aligned pirate with access to those ports for the duration of the letter - so the direction of travel is reversed from the current position where pirates are a nation who can attract national players without consequence, whereas switching the other way is bit more of a pain.

[Sir Robert Calder]

It is my hope that Pirates remain uniquely differentiated from National factions. I do not mind Pirates having unique features such as a "Letter of Marque" mode to essentially be mercenaries for Nationals provided that they take prizes from said National's enemy. I would also like unique features for National factions as well, such as sending ships to the Admiralty being an exclusively beneficial option only available to Nationals.

 

My point being that we do not make Pirates so fantastical in their uniqueness and special features that if players want to fully enjoy Naval Action they should play the Pirate experience.

[thp]

Afther reading all your posts about how to change the pirate mechanics to allow you to win against the pirates,  an idea just cross my mind,   insteed of doing that if you guys spent 1/2 of that time by trying to build up a strong alliance, make other your own players more united, and finding a good strategy to beat the pirate you could probably already bring the "pirate nation" down by now.

 

p.s : Sorry but I would like to post what that has been delete by some unknown Mod before, there s no trolling in my post,  DONT delete my post ONLY because you dont like it, and if you do so at least let me know why ? I only suggest what has been suggested by ADMIN himself long time ago but none of you really care

 

admin, on 29 jan 2016 - 10 : 21 PM,said:

Nations should eliminate piracy not by voting, but by fighting.

"Crush their ports, drive them before you, capture their resources, and hear lamentations of their leaders in chat.

Voting is a more modern mechanic. In the age of sail you could settle a dispute just by sticking the sword in the enemy's eye.

Capture all pirate ports and they will sail brigs and cerberuses, as you cannot craft from Mortimer town only"

[mouse of war]

Afther reading all your posts about how to change the pirate mechanics to allow you to win against the pirates,  an idea just cross my mind,   insteed of doing that if you guys spent 1/2 of that time by trying to build up a strong alliance, make other your own players more united, and finding a good strategy to beat the pirate you could probably already bring the "pirate nation" down by now.

 

p.s : Sorry but I would like to post what that has been delete by some unknown Mod before, there s no trolling in my post,  DONT delete my post ONLY because you dont like it, and if you do so at least let me know why ? I only suggest what has been suggested by ADMIN himself long time ago but none of you really care

 

admin, on 29 jan 2016 - 10 : 21 PM,said:

Nations should eliminate piracy not by voting, but by fighting.

"Crush their ports, drive them before you, capture their resources, and hear lamentations of their leaders in chat.

Voting is a more modern mechanic. In the age of sail you could settle a dispute just by sticking the sword in the enemy's eye.

Capture all pirate ports and they will sail brigs and cerberuses, as you cannot craft from Mortimer town only"

 

Afther reading all your posts about keeping the pirate mechanics the way they are to allow you to win against other nations,  an idea just cross my mind,   why couldn't the Pirate nation play by the same rules as everybody else?

 

And have another faction 'real' pirates where the rules encourage more 'piratey' gameplay

[thp]

Afther reading all your posts about keeping the pirate mechanics the way they are to allow you to win against other nations,  an idea just cross my mind,   why couldn't the Pirate nation play by the same rules as everybody else?

 

And have another faction 'real' pirates where the rules encourage more 'piratey' gameplay

Unlike you ( plural form)  that keep complaining and try to find a way to make pirate weaker by the game mechanics. We never ask anything else than equal weapons to fight against the nations.

Anyone can play "real" pirate ( at least the way that you want us to play to), some nations are docking in pirate water free towns and attacking our traders or ganking us also, but we never complain that nations can play like pirate too, we just learn how to deal against it.

Anyway it seems like some national players complain alot about everything pirate do anyway, even if we sail in small ships like cutters to frigate class and raid your jamaica cost,  some of your players complain about it on the forums too, whilst that s something british royal navy did alot before, they came to Mortimer in big fleet to gank any newbie nearby before.

[Babble]

At this point if the rats want to be another nation cool.  Make them exactly the same as everyone else.

 

 

Then make the Corsair nation. 

 

1.)Make them get no XP from NPCs.  Double XP from Players ,

 

2.)No production buildings

 

3.)Max level 2 shipyard.

 

4.)Reduced Outpost cost.

 

5.)One unique Glass Cannon frigate.  Say like a surprise but with 3.5 turn rate.

 

6.)Any ports they capture in PB turn to neutral ports.

 

7.)Let them enter neutral ports.

 

 

so i can play hard mode.

Edited April 7, 2016 by Babble

[thp]

At this point if the rats want to be another nation cool.  Make them exactly the same as everyone else.

 

 

Then make the Corsair nation. 

 

1.)Make them get no XP from NPCs.  Double XP from Players ,

 

2.)No production buildings

 

3.)Max level 2 shipyard.

 

4.)Reduced Outpost cost.

 

5.)One unique Glass Cannon frigate.  Say like a surprise but with 3.5 turn rate.

 

6.)Any ports they capture in PB turn to neutral ports.

 

7.)Let them enter neutral ports.

 

 

so i can play hard mode.

you can try to create another faction if you want, but right now nothing prevent you to apply those rules when playing:

 

1.)Make them get no XP from NPCs.  Double XP from Players , : DONT farm npcs

2.)No production buildings : DONT build buildings

3.)Max level 2 shipyard. :build your shipyard only to level 2

4.)Reduced Outpost cost. : gold is not really a problem in this game if you got the skill but anyway you want hardmode without npc farming right ?

5.)One unique Glass Cannon frigate.  Say like a surprise but with 3.5 turn rate.: make a surprise with gold upgraded rudder and some gold upgraded for turning

6.)Any ports they capture in PB turn to neutral ports. :  Just dont capture any port.( anyway you wont be able to capture any port but shallow if sailing in small ships only.

7.)Let them enter neutral ports. : DONT enter any other port than neutral.

 

it s a sandbox that means the players are free to create the world or play with the rules they want.