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NethrosDefectus

Fix infinite chain on fleet ships, it is bullshit

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10 minutes ago, admin said:

Ai cant aim shots well and cant decide when to do it. Thus if we spend a week adding ai chain shot limitation it will basically mean we removed it because i will just waste during those 2 attempts.
So the easy quick fix would be just to remove the demast button. 

Don't do it.  Some players have found a way to counter the super modded PVP hunter.  More power to them for having a good deterrent.  If a lone ship attacks a fleet, he should face some disadvantages.

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9 minutes ago, Oberon74 said:

Don't do it.  Some players have found a way to counter the super modded PVP hunter.  More power to them for having a good deterrent.  If a lone ship attacks a fleet, he should face some disadvantages.

The problem isn't when you use it to counter a "super-modded PvP hunter" - the problem is when the "super-modded PvP hunter" brings a fleet-ships for chaining.

It's being used actively for hunting, not defence. 

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5 minutes ago, Percival Merewether said:

The problem isn't when you use it to counter a "super-modded PvP hunter" - the problem is when the "super-modded PvP hunter" brings a fleet-ships for chaining.

It's being used actively for hunting, not defence. 

I see.  I'm still hesitant to advise taking something out of gameplay.  I've only ever used fleet for trade.  What if we used the Patrol zone mechanic where fleet ships do not appear in the battle instance.  

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7 minutes ago, Oberon74 said:

I see.  I'm still hesitant to advise taking something out of gameplay.  I've only ever used fleet for trade.  What if we used the Patrol zone mechanic where fleet ships do not appear in the battle instance.  

limiting AI chain as suggested by @NethrosDefectus would be the best approach, a more drastic step could be disabling AI fleets for attackers

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4 minutes ago, Percival Merewether said:

limiting AI chain as suggested by @NethrosDefectus would be the best approach, a more drastic step could be disabling AI fleets for attackers

AI chain should just be subject to the same limitations player chain is (two broadsides worth), problem solved.

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1 hour ago, admin said:

Ai cant aim shots well and cant decide when to do it. Thus if we spend a week adding ai chain shot limitation it will basically mean we removed it because i will just waste during those 2 attempts.
So the easy quick fix would be just to remove the demast button. 

No. Ai fleet should stay the same...even add grape shot button!

Fleets make rank mean something. I fleet 3 endys with my main endy... When I hunt I don't fear the gank squads as much....they may take a fleet (none have ever capped one yet only sunk them) but I escape almost always

If mods applied to fleet actions they would be even more valuable prize to cap.

Fleets slow and sometimes stop the predictable outcome of a solo sailor encountering ganksquads

 

 

Edited by Sea Fox

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1 hour ago, admin said:

Ai cant aim shots well and cant decide when to do it. Thus if we spend a week adding ai chain shot limitation it will basically mean we removed it because i will just waste during those 2 attempts.
So the easy quick fix would be just to remove the demast button. 

What I"m not getting is when did this suddenly become a problem. Half the time I see AI in a battle it gets sunk cause it's a small ship in the middle of big ships.  Or it's so much in the way it's a pain.  Never seen folks chain some one to death with an AI, so this must be something new with some folks testing.  Personally I hate the demast option cause half the time my AI is shooting nothing but ball and missing almost all it's shots and not hitting mast (slight damage to sails).

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5 minutes ago, Sir Texas Sir said:

What I"m not getting is when did this suddenly become a problem. Half the time I see AI in a battle it gets sunk cause it's a small ship in the middle of big ships.  Or it's so much in the way it's a pain.  Never seen folks chain some one to death with an AI, so this must be something new with some folks testing.  Personally I hate the demast option cause half the time my AI is shooting nothing but ball and missing almost all it's shots and not hitting mast (slight damage to sails).

Ai fleets are strictly for for defense. They are too dumb to help in attacks

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1 minute ago, Sea Fox said:

Ai fleets are strictly for for defense. They are too dumb to help in attacks

Hay now every once in a while they have a spark of brilliance and help actually win a fight....we use to have an on going joke back on GLOBAL when I was Pirate, that the AI was just slightly better than the US nation players...with that there are honestly some players in game actually worse than AI...lol

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I remember a battle on Global with a bunch of 1st-3rd rates where we pulled an AI snow in by accident and it ended up getting the kill on a Bellona because everyone was ignoring it. And everyone is scared of the mighty AI Pickle!

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3 hours ago, Palatinose said:

God, guys could you once stay on topic @victor and @Intrepido ? In every post, no matter the topic you spawn your opinion. EVERY-F***Ing-BODY on this forum knows it already.

Chill out man. Are you the only one here entitled to talk or write your opinions? 

BTW the reason you do not understand why my posts are on topic, it's the same reason why you - as well as some other players - do not see which are the actual problem of this game, which definitely is NOT infinite chain shots in fleet ships.

 

 

 

Edited by victor

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15 minutes ago, victor said:

Chill out man. Are you the only one here entitled to talk or write your opinions?

And BTW the reason you do not understand why my posts are on topic, it's the same reason why you - as well as some other players - do not see which are the actual problem of this game, which definitely is NOT infinite chain shots in fleet ships.

@NethrosDefectus suggest something that at least on the surface appeared to be an easy tweak for the next patch, and you dismiss it saying the developers should add content instead.

Why don't you make a seperate new thread in which you suggest the 'new and improved' content that you have in mind? - and while you're here...: tell us why the developers should not limit chain for the AI.

Edited by Percival Merewether

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18 minutes ago, victor said:

Chill out man. Are you the only one here entitled to talk or write your opinions? 

BTW the reason you do not understand why my posts are on topic, it's the same reason why you - as well as some other players - do not see which are the actual problem of this game, which definitely is NOT infinite chain shots in fleet ships.

ok.

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1 minute ago, Percival Merewether said:

@NethrosDefectus suggest something that at least on the surface appeared to be an easy tweak for the next patch, and you dismiss it saying the developers should add content instead.

Why don't you make a seperate new thread in which you suggest the 'new and improved' content that you have in mind? - and while you're here...: tell us why the developers should not limit chain for the AI.

Because fleet chaining is one of the few effective defensive mechanics left to traders when they are attacked, so nerfing it just means giving another advantage to attackers (which is not actually something that they really need).

Are you happy now?

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12 minutes ago, victor said:

Because fleet chaining is one of the few effective defensive mechanics left to traders when they are attacked, so nerfing it just means giving another advantage to attackers (which is not actually something that they really need).

Most of this thread has been regarding using AI fleets with unlimited chain as an offensive weapon, thus making it harder for your precious traders to escape because the AI has unlimited chain. This is why I suggested the following:

1 hour ago, Percival Merewether said:

limiting AI chain as suggested by @NethrosDefectus would be the best approach, a more drastic step could be disabling AI fleets for attackers.

You could also disable the chain/demast button for the attacking party - or are you also in favour of using AI ships to help hunters slow-down and capture traders?

12 minutes ago, victor said:

Are you happy now?

Don't be a dick about it, that's not going to get us anywhere.

Edited by Percival Merewether

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Just now, Percival Merewether said:

 

Don't be a dick about it, that's not going to get us anywhere.

Instead calling names of other players does, of course.

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1 hour ago, Sir Texas Sir said:

What I"m not getting is when did this suddenly become a problem. Half the time I see AI in a battle it gets sunk cause it's a small ship in the middle of big ships.  Or it's so much in the way it's a pain.  Never seen folks chain some one to death with an AI, so this must be something new with some folks testing.  Personally I hate the demast option cause half the time my AI is shooting nothing but ball and missing almost all it's shots and not hitting mast (slight damage to sails).

The issue is when players go out hunting with THREE fleet ships, not defensively but actively targeting and tagging ships. I'm not complaining that I can't run away. My issue is that even with their terrible aim, 3 ai ships can still wreck sails very quickly which completely removes any mobility of your ship

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1 hour ago, Sea Fox said:

Ai fleets are strictly for for defense. They are too dumb to help in attacks

That's where you are wrong, I am not talking about a single fleet ship. I am talking about 2 or 3 which even if they miss 75% of the shots, can can still collectively do a lot of damage to sails quickly, damage that cannot be recovered from because they have an unlimited supply.

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51 minutes ago, victor said:

Because fleet chaining is one of the few effective defensive mechanics left to traders when they are attacked, so nerfing it just means giving another advantage to attackers (which is not actually something that they really need).

Are you happy now?

The issue is not with defensive use, but offensive use. The "attackers" you mention are already getting an advantage by using it

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3 hours ago, admin said:

Ai cant aim shots well and cant decide when to do it. Thus if we spend a week adding ai chain shot limitation it will basically mean we removed it because i will just waste during those 2 attempts.
So the easy quick fix would be just to remove the demast button. 

I only have a very basic knowledge of programming, but what would be involved in implementing a system whereby if you are on the offensive side then the "demast" would be disabled? Perhaps this could be a compromise between the current system and removing the button outright.

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20 minutes ago, NethrosDefectus said:

The issue is not with defensive use, but offensive use. The "attackers" you mention are already getting an advantage by using it

Well, when I am being pursued in a trader in OS I almost always try to countertag first as soon the other ship enters in the circle.

 

Edited by victor

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5 hours ago, Intrepido said:

Limiting grape could be also interesting to test. It may end some practices like infinite stern raking. Because it is absurd that we think that it is realistic that one ship with 15 small guns loaded with a short range ammo can kill 800 guys in a first rate.

If we did this it would eliminate the small ships from being able to bring down first rates. If we did this though determined defender would need a rework. 

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58 minutes ago, MarkusBarak said:

If we did this it would eliminate the small ships from being able to bring down first rates. If we did this though determined defender would need a rework. 

Or removal ;)

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Counter to AI chainshot spam: Chain or demast the AI (which cannot repair).

Remember too that if the player has more than 1 AI ship, he has sacrificed more perks than the standard fighting setup (1 fleet slot) to achieve that, so he may not have carpenter perks, double shot/charge, prepared, determined defender, etc.  

Instead of focusing only on the benefits of sailing with AI fleet, let’s not forget the drawbacks associated. And at the end of the day, it’s still just AI and not too hard to outsmart. 

 

 

Moving back to limiting ammunition and repairs. I agree with @Gregory Rainsborough either bring back unlimited chainshot or limit repairs and limit grape as well. 

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