Teleporting with cargo, solving the issue

[FlyingRoss]

I seriously think everyone commenting (complaining) on this saying that traders should not be able to teleport, is not a trader. 

 

I can bet money that most are people that PVP, do missions, and generally any other ship to ship combat. Which is so much fun! and exciting! and produces xp! and makes you gold oh so much gold! 

 

Then with all the gold they go to the market, and then become sad because "How dare those traders! they marked up all the resources here! That is not fair! Not historical! Prices need to be lower because I am out having fun and now want to buy what I want! But the prices are too damn high!"

 

Seriously I can here you all whining behind the keyboards. 

 

You all want to have fun, and be able to travel to any port that is just 3-5 ports away from your capital and buy everything there cheap so you can build your big sexy ships, and get mad that all the resources are gone.

 

Crazy thing is? There are parts of the map that have ports with 5k iron ore and 4k oak sitting there. Why? No one from the major factions wants to sail 6 hours 1 way.

 

Now I have, and made some good cash.  But yea I am not sailing 12 real life hours in a game. Take away the teleport, know what happens?

 

prices sky rocket.

 

Coming soon to a port near you! 

 

Iron Ore! cheap only 1150 gold each!

[Hethwill]

I do not care about the prices IF I get to interdict trade for other nations and DENY them the goods, therefore bringing it to our nation markets.

You see, there is more to PVP than the simple mindless rank chase.

 

With this system the market gets flooded by virtually endless goods and soon the market gets flooded with ships no one will buy.

 

Given the "historical credibility" of NA a chase frigate like the Cerberus was really expensive to order let alone a 3rd rate and above. Those should be Nation efforts and not simply automated return trips.

 

Both opinions have their merits I think so we must try to reach a smart compromisse so the devs can look to and see as a good implementation solution for the entire game and overall fun.

 

As it is is totally shallow to interdict trade, although I have fun doing it I would be more interested if those same chases and prizes taken would have na impact on the trade system.

[jpjchris]

And traders will no longer go in search of goods, risk is barely an issue, it's ludicrous to believe traders will sail 5 hours in one direction to do a trade run and then do the same amount of sailing just to return, the distances are too great and there is nowhere near enough profit in it to sail that long, it'll be easier to earn money doing PvP and PvE.

 

If they increase the profitably of merchanting, then it would definitely be worth it!

 

And that would be absolutely fantastic. Nothing says pirating and privateering like busy, open ocean sea lanes

[Leto]

I seriously think everyone commenting (complaining) on this saying that traders should not be able to teleport, is not a trader. 

 

I can bet money that most are people that PVP, do missions, and generally any other ship to ship combat. Which is so much fun! and exciting! and produces xp! and makes you gold oh so much gold! 

 

Then with all the gold they go to the market, and then become sad because "How dare those traders! they marked up all the resources here! That is not fair! Not historical! Prices need to be lower because I am out having fun and now want to buy what I want! But the prices are too damn high!"

 

Seriously I can here you all whining behind the keyboards. 

 

You all want to have fun, and be able to travel to any port that is just 3-5 ports away from your capital and buy everything there cheap so you can build your big sexy ships, and get mad that all the resources are gone.

 

Crazy thing is? There are parts of the map that have ports with 5k iron ore and 4k oak sitting there. Why? No one from the major factions wants to sail 6 hours 1 way.

 

Now I have, and made some good cash.  But yea I am not sailing 12 real life hours in a game. Take away the teleport, know what happens?

 

prices sky rocket.

 

Coming soon to a port near you! 

 

Iron Ore! cheap only 1150 gold each!

I actually agree with Ross, in that the current system is only really balanced if people can teleport. There's simply no way in which somebody will sail 3 hours to and fro, for any profit imaginable. It's literally a whole IRL day. So most crafting materials will become very, very expensive.

 

But I don't think teleporting is the right solution, but rather to balance  production to reflect demand close to busy ports. 90% of trading should be more or less local, and all raw materials should be plentiful in this sense, nobody should have to travel more than 30 minutes for raw materials. Then pirates would have to actually be within national waters to raid traders etc. The developers should relate production to an equation which increases with the average price, so that ports close to capitals produce enough and make viable lucrative trade routes. I'm an economist IRL, this is called the "law of supply" - production is never independent of demand. This over time will also make convenient ports more popular, frequented by clans etc and become developed, while allowing pirates or other nations to make high-risk, devastating raids on important trade routes.

 

In terms of PVP, I think the most important function of teleporting is to allow defending ports which are otherwise unreachable in time for defense. The only thing worse that losing ports undefended is to feel the need to settle in distant ports where you get little or no social contact, in order to defend them.  We should do MORE to encourage clans and people to set up in non-capital territory, rather than punishing them by not allowing them to return to social, populated areas and vice-versa easily.

[jodgi]

...IF I get to interdict trade for other nations and DENY them the goods...

This is a shitty idea in so many ways.

It's shitty taking down enemy bot traders. It's boring, loot is not worth it, xp not worth it and time spent is not worth it. It's like hitting girls.

It's shitty hunting down player traders. The one-in-a-thousand time you actually catch the player trader, it's real shitty for the victim. Unless he is afk and deserves it, it's probably just a new guy who is clueless. Besides 1/1000 won't change RvR eco.

People don't want to lose stuff, especially those who craft or trade. Is it a good idea to force loss and inconvenience on them? Make traders terribly slow? Make deliveries very expensive? Make deliveries vulnerable to your trader sweeps? "Sorry, Mr. Sparrow. Your delivery was intercepted by Hethwill. He now has your 400k worth of iron ore."

How is this a fun element in a game?

Join the PB gang instead, you will do much more for your country bullying towers than doing clever trader hunting.

[maturin]

 

It's shitty taking down enemy bot traders. It's boring, loot is not worth it, xp not worth it and time spent is not worth it. It's like hitting girls.

Wroooong

 

You've obviously never gotten any compass wood.

 

Hunting trader's is drastically more fun and unpredictable than grinding missions. And it's the only way new players learn to chase and board.

[Ampen]

I seriously think everyone commenting (complaining) on this saying that traders should not be able to teleport, is not a trader. 

 

I can bet money that most are people that PVP, do missions, and generally any other ship to ship combat. Which is so much fun! and exciting! and produces xp! and makes you gold oh so much gold! 

 

Then with all the gold they go to the market, and then become sad because "How dare those traders! they marked up all the resources here! That is not fair! Not historical! Prices need to be lower because I am out having fun and now want to buy what I want! But the prices are too damn high!"

 

Seriously I can here you all whining behind the keyboards. 

 

You all want to have fun, and be able to travel to any port that is just 3-5 ports away from your capital and buy everything there cheap so you can build your big sexy ships, and get mad that all the resources are gone.

 

Crazy thing is? There are parts of the map that have ports with 5k iron ore and 4k oak sitting there. Why? No one from the major factions wants to sail 6 hours 1 way.

 

Now I have, and made some good cash.  But yea I am not sailing 12 real life hours in a game. Take away the teleport, know what happens?

 

prices sky rocket.

 

Coming soon to a port near you! 

 

Iron Ore! cheap only 1150 gold each!

 

I think you nail some pretty good points here.

Now, some players think you should mainly be able to sail, and sail properly (that is, no navigational aid, and it should take time). This on the other hand wrecks trade, as not many as you mention it is really interested in spending 12 hours sailing. So teleport is needed, but at the same time, this will have an impact on RvR, since you can't interdict traders in the same way then. So instead of having a situation where eco supports PvP, wich in turn generates RvR, wich in turn have an impact on eco etc, we have a situation where PvP impairs eco wich impairs RvR etc.

[NaLKoN]

General teleport one time and 1.5 h and 4h debuff to teleport with cargo.
so the players in the clan can quickly and to gather more often and not go to each other many hours of PvP for the sake of saving time.

[Kedge]

I'm all for the total removal of teleportation as a whole. This gives clans and nations strong points, weak points and will naturally develop trading hubs and trading routes, as well as risky and lawless areas. Having the ability to be wherever you want at a moment's notice defeats these desirable possibilities.. 

[Galileus]

I'm all for the total removal of teleportation as a whole. This gives clans and nations strong points, weak points and will naturally develop trading hubs and trading routes, as well as risky and lawless areas. Having the ability to be wherever you want at a moment's notice defeats these desirable possibilities.. 

 

I hate these romantics... Take away the teleports and players will go far and wide!

 

Wrong. Take away the teleport and no-one leaves home waters. Why?

 

"Frank, wanna play some NA?"

"Sure, where are you?"

"Louisiana."

"Ah, I see... ok, we meet at Fort Royal, ok?"

"Allright! Sit tight, I will be there in a moment and 7 hours!"

 

In act 2 Frank dies of boredom, playing MMO game solo, because the MMO game punishes these who want to explore.

[Ampen]

I hate these romantics... Take away the teleports and players will go far and wide!

 

Wrong. Take away the teleport and no-one leaves home waters. Why?

 

"Frank, wanna play some NA?"

"Sure, where are you?"

"Louisiana."

"Ah, I see... ok, we meet at Fort Royal, ok?"

"Allright! Sit tight, I will be there in a moment and 7 hours!"

 

In act 2 Frank dies of boredom, playing MMO game solo, because the MMO game punishes these who want to explore.

 

This man speaks the truth. Frank did actually die.

 

But yes, there's issues with the size of the map and the speed (or lack of it) in OS travel. I'm here for the fights, that's what intrigues me with this game, but it's alot of "Sailing Simulator 1800" going on.

[Excelsior718]

If you are going to delete the option of teleporting with cargo, then you need to allow for adding trading vessels to your personal fleet.

 

Currently, if you are a trader, there is no protection for your trade vessel other than (possibly) two cutters from your fleet.

 

They way it should work is that you should be able to make a trade vessel a part of your fleet, so that it can accompany your warship.  

That way, you could actually have some support for your trade vessel when it is traversing hostile waters, instead of just hoping you don't bump into a pirate (or group of pirates.)  

 

I understand that teleporting with cargo reduces risk on traders.  However, unless traders have the ability to protect their vulnerable trade ships from pirates, trading isn't really a viable activity.  Give traders the ability to defend themselves.  

[Kedge]

I hate these romantics... Take away the teleports and players will go far and wide!

 

Wrong. Take away the teleport and no-one leaves home waters. Why?

 

"Frank, wanna play some NA?"

"Sure, where are you?"

"Louisiana."

"Ah, I see... ok, we meet at Fort Royal, ok?"

"Allright! Sit tight, I will be there in a moment and 7 hours!"

 

In act 2 Frank dies of boredom, playing MMO game solo, because the MMO game punishes these who want to explore.

 

I hate these players who want high reward for no risk. 

 

If Frank and his mate want to play together they'd probably be in the same clan, located in the same general sort of area, if they had any kind of sense. A game recreating the age of sail with any kind of realism sounds like the sort of game a casual gamer like Frank should avoid.

 

 

 

If you are going to delete the option of teleporting with cargo, then you need to allow for adding trading vessels to your personal fleet.

 

Currently, if you are a trader, there is no protection for your trade vessel other than (possibly) two cutters from your fleet.

 

They way it should work is that you should be able to make a trade vessel a part of your fleet, so that it can accompany your warship.  

That way, you could actually have some support for your trade vessel when it is traversing hostile waters, instead of just hoping you don't bump into a pirate (or group of pirates.)  

 

I understand that teleporting with cargo reduces risk on traders.  However, unless traders have the ability to protect their vulnerable trade ships from pirates, trading isn't really a viable activity.  Give traders the ability to defend themselves.  

 

Join a clan, make some friends. Get them to escort you. This game improves drastically when played in a group. Why shouldn't you get ambushed by pirates if you're alone?

Edited February 8, 2016 by Kedge

[Captain Alexander]

But if traders won't be able to transport good faster aka with teleport, prices will jump sky rocket and specially crafted ships prices

[Dalriaden]

A tax on cargo isn't going to make it less lucrative. a tax on cargo is going to be reflected in the buy price, you don't even have to have a basic understanding of economics to understand that. Imo the system is fine. you always run the risk of having people undercutting you while you're in bed and being out the deposit to place your contract and not making anything. You also run the risk of being stuck in this:

If you're playing after using it, lol.

[Pagan Pete]

You should not be able to teleport with cargo.

 

 

Teleport is important when you get lost, or need to travel a large existence… again.

 

However,

• teleporting with cargo eliminates ANY risk involved in moving cargo.
• No risk helps drive the current resource crisis.

[Sylven1]

I hate these players who want high reward for no risk.

If Frank and his mate want to play together they'd probably be in the same clan, located in the same general sort of area, if they had any kind of sense. A game recreating the age of sail with any kind of realism sounds like the sort of game a casual gamer like Frank should avoid.

Join a clan, make some friends. Get them to escort you. This game improves drastically when played in a group. Why shouldn't you get ambushed by pirates if you're alone?

Well then get rid of all fleet ships then. I mean why need the back up if you're in a Warship.

[FuzzyInch]

can you teleport to outposts with cargo? or only capitals?

[Galileus]

If Frank and his mate want to play together they'd probably be in the same clan, located in the same general sort of area, if they had any kind of sense. A game recreating the age of sail with any kind of realism sounds like the sort of game a casual gamer like Frank should avoid.

 

Your argumentation is "this is only for hardcore gamers, please don't mix blood". Got'ya.

 

You will forgive me, if I will disregard that argumentation.

[Ampen]

 

I hate these players who want high reward for no risk. 

 

If Frank and his mate want to play together they'd probably be in the same clan, located in the same general sort of area, if they had any kind of sense. A game recreating the age of sail with any kind of realism sounds like the sort of game a casual gamer like Frank should avoid.

 

 

 

 

Join a clan, make some friends. Get them to escort you. This game improves drastically when played in a group. Why shouldn't you get ambushed by pirates if you're alone?

 

 

The pure size of this map really locks you down to a certain region. To that there's about 2000 players or so playing. Now, do we as gamers and as a community want players to fight, interact and trade with each other, or do we want them to sit holed up in different regions of the map where there's less interdiction, little resistance and only within nation trade?

 

You can do the hardcore stepdance how much you like, but it still boils down to this. How many players are willing to sail on the open sea for whatever hours at a time to get into PvP or do trade? And getting close, if they get interdicted, split, griefed coming close to their objective, will they do it again? Possibly. If it happens twice? Maybe. Three times? Unlikely.

High reward and low risk isn't the issue really, the issue is that distances on this map discourages trying again should you get nailed.

 

Tedious can be dressed as hardcore, but it will still be just what it is, tedious, and as such it becomes a stamina contest. Hardcore on the other hand for me is about skill. It could be tedious to aquire that skill, but it will still be skill, and going up against someone it will be a test of skill.

[Jinxus]

Teleporting with a full cargohold should not be a thing.

It takes away the whole premise of an open world PvP game if the traders can just teleport a full hold of goods with zero risk of being attacked.

 

Having to actually do the journey with a full cargohold of valuable goods opens up wonderful opportunities for fun PvP encounters, you might find yourself hunted by pirates, trying to outsmart and outmaneuver them and so forth.

Being able to just go somewhere, fill your cargohold and then just click to transport the entire thing back to safety seems completely ridiculous, at least on a PvP server. It eliminates all the risk and leaves only the reward.

 

TLDR:

Just make it impossible to teleport with cargo (or at least make a weight-limit so you cant do it specifically to transport tradegoods).

Add a warning that if you do your cargo will be lost, just like the warning that already exists when you try to leave a battle without taking your loot. Problem solved.

[Jinxus]

People don't want to lose stuff, especially those who craft or trade. Is it a good idea to force loss and inconvenience on them? Make traders terribly slow? Make deliveries very expensive? Make deliveries vulnerable to your trader sweeps? "Sorry, Mr. Sparrow. Your delivery was intercepted by Hethwill. He now has your 400k worth of iron ore."

 

 

You know why most MMO economies dont work and they constantly have to come up with more and more goldsinks to try and fix the sinking ship?

Because there is no factor of loss in most MMO's, at all.

 

If players never lose resources unexpectedly, but constantly gain them. The economy is broken right off the bat and will never reach any stability.

 

It's not like its that hard to move about as a trader without getting boarded constantly, the ocean is big.

Besides, there is always the PvE server for people who for some reason want to play a game without risk. Which in my opinion is a game without point.

[Puff]

I wouldn't mind having to sail for 6 hours but the reward is going to have to match the time investment and the risk.  Currently with full cargo buying at minimum prices and marking up the price to players as high as I can I stand to make 200k-300k at the very most just by teleporting.  If I need to sail the whole way I would need to make something like 5million for it to be worth it. Otherwise i'm just going to run missions and get more gold (not to mention exp) for the same time investment.

[buccaneer]

steps to make trading worth w/o teleporting (i enjoy all activities that game provides, from battles to crafting)

1. remove teleporting with cargo, but leave some sort of emergency evacuation in case if you got lost (free, just gets you to the nearest avialable port)
2. outpost - to - outpost teleport without ship sound totally legit to me, its a game afterall - leave it as it is.
3. in order to provide more possibilites for merchants we shoould get rid of PURE TRADING ships and introduce deadweight parameter, that limits overall amount of stuff that ship can carry. Everything have weight - cannons, cargo, mods, crew. The closer you get to the limit, ship loses some of its speed, with a possibility to overload at cost leaks for example. So i can arrange my ship before trip - if im going for pvp or port battle, then im interested to fully load with cannons, crew, mods, repair kits. However if im looking for trade run, im able to customise my loadout. I cant set up only half amount of guns, with minimal crew, and plenty of room for cargo. Or completly remove all guns, if i have my clan-mates covering me. Or use ship as a transport to work with team as a boarding vessel without guns, but with lots of marines aboard. a-la Sea Dogs style (this also makes possibility to make ships more expencive)
4. long trading runs will become reality once we introduce player based resource production, so u have to build stuff and get building permit a-la port royal style.

Edited February 11, 2016 by buccaneer

[Xordan]

1. remove the teleport with cargo to capital... change it to a teleport to nearest neutral/friendly port to help players lost at sea. still abuseable however much less so cause u might end up at a port with hostiles.

 

2. keep the teleport to outpost... saves half the time of travel, however now u need to travel with your cargo to your capital which means more risk, cause atm there is no risk in teleporting with a full cargo load.