Prater Posted October 11, 2015 Share Posted October 11, 2015 Fluyts are out of the time period. Placing them together with what we have would be like placing this next to this or this 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteelSandwich Posted October 11, 2015 Share Posted October 11, 2015 Beyeren No fluit, just a regular eastindiamen 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jodgi Posted October 11, 2015 Author Share Posted October 11, 2015 Bellona-class (swedish, starting 1782) Rota (danish, 1801) af Chapman (swedish, 1803, not sure if she carried light or long 24-pounders) After reading all your discussion about "true" 18/24 frigates these are the ones we have left? Not counting the brit/french... Rota is in the poll. af Chapman, would that be like the "Wasa" in the poll? I'd click at the Swedish Bellona class but I don't know enough to make a proper poll post with plans and correct info. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wicked Mouse Posted October 11, 2015 Share Posted October 11, 2015 Fluyts are out of the time period. Placing them together with what we have would be like placing this next to this or this I've seen many 17th century ships being offered everywhere on the forum. What makes the fluyts so much different? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jodgi Posted October 11, 2015 Author Share Posted October 11, 2015 I've seen many 17th century ships being offered everywhere on the forum. What makes the fluyts so much different? We were asked to consider usefulness for this particular poll. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Malachi Posted October 11, 2015 Share Posted October 11, 2015 (edited) On 10/11/2015 at 7:46 PM, jodgi said: After reading all your discussion about "true" 18/24 frigates these are the ones we have left? Not counting the brit/french... Rota is in the poll. af Chapman, would that be like the "Wasa" in the poll? I'd click at the Swedish Bellona class but I don't know enough to make a proper poll post with plans and correct info. That´s the af Chapman 47, 20m length p/p 11,9m breadth 26*24-pounders 14*24-pounder carronades And we had a Bellona-class frigate (or better: a frigate very similiar to the Bellona-class Venus) in the last poll and it didn´t make, so... Edited April 5, 2019 by Malachi Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akd Posted October 11, 2015 Share Posted October 11, 2015 After reading all your discussion about "true" 18/24 frigates these are the ones we have left? Not counting the brit/french...Rota is in the poll. af Chapman, would that be like the "Wasa" in the poll?I'd click at the Swedish Bellona class but I don't know enough to make a proper poll post with plans and correct info.Dutch Eendracht of 1797 had main battery of 28x 24pdrs (unknown length and weight) and 16x 12pdrs on QD/FC. It is in the suggestion thread. http://warshipsresearch.blogspot.com/2014/07/dutch-44-guns-frigate-eendracht-1795.html Dutch Amfitrite of 1797 carried 28x 24pdr main battery in British service after capture in 1799. Don't know Dutch armament, but was probably the same as Eendracht. She is not in the current suggestion thread, but plans are in the Dutch ships collection thread. These are larger and more heavily armed than British Endymion, Danish Rota or Swedish Venus*, although not as large and heavily-armed as Forte / Egyptienne. But they are Dutch! *on threedecks.org some ships of Swedish Bellona class (including Venus) are listed as 156 x 40ft, but others are listed as 190 x 36ft (!) long. Not sure if plans of the longer ships are available. Surely they were exceptionally long and narrow if that is correct. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akd Posted October 11, 2015 Share Posted October 11, 2015 In center, a "Dutch Flyboat" by Chapman that retains some of the character of a fluyt, but would be less out of place: http://www.sjohistoriska.se/ImageVaultFiles/id_3083/cf_1801/53.JPG 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wicked Mouse Posted October 11, 2015 Share Posted October 11, 2015 We were asked to consider usefulness for this particular poll. Where was that request? I don't see it: Hello Captains. Ships from the previous voting's are almost finished, with the exception of the Indefatigable, and will be delivered for testing in the near future. Please propose vessels for the first half of 2016. The process is as usual: This topic will be used for collection of proposals. After some time best proposals will be brought to voting Voting will determine 2 ships that we will do based on player suggestions 1 ship will be selected by developers as a wild card Proposals could include:Wooden (old or new) models of the ship or ships of the same class (sister ships) Drawings (old or new) of the ship or the ship of the similar class (sister ships) Tech drawings if any Limitations: We want to bring ships from underrepresented nations into this voting; thus English/US/French vessels proposals are discouraged. Spanish, Dutch, Danish, Swedish, Portuguese, maybe German built ships are encouraged. EDIT Please limit the proposals by 1 ship per post - posting a picture of the vessel (or a chart or a drawing). We will judge the popularity of the vessel by player likes of the post. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jodgi Posted October 11, 2015 Author Share Posted October 11, 2015 Look at the bottom of the first post, edit by Henry: Edit - H. Darby (Information based on the previous Ship Suggestion thread for 2015): Ships from the years: 1670-1825 are acceptable. 1730-1790 is preferred Please, when suggesting a ship, ask yourself - is this something that will be useful in the game, and that people will enjoy sailing and also, if it's a warship, fighting in/against? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LeBoiteux Posted October 11, 2015 Share Posted October 11, 2015 Talking about usefulness (that quite depends on your playstyle and ingame "job") and "enjoyability" (that depends on... what you personally like), as there will be 3 chosen ships (2 by us, 1 by the devs), I really hope there will be : - 1 trader ship, - 1 unrated warship (brigantine, sloop...), - 1 frigate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wicked Mouse Posted October 11, 2015 Share Posted October 11, 2015 I'd say that a dedicated trading/exploration ship would be useful and would also have a very unique aesthetic seen in no other ship. But if it doesn't make the voting, then so be it. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LeBoiteux Posted October 11, 2015 Share Posted October 11, 2015 I'd say that a dedicated trading/exploration ship would be useful and would also have a very unique aesthetic seen in no other ship. But if it doesn't make the voting, then so be it. +1. The only exploration ships I've heard of are french or english. Are there exploration ships from other nations whose plans are known ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maturin Posted October 11, 2015 Share Posted October 11, 2015 Geez, guys, we have an embarrassment of riches in the suggestion thread. I'm paralyzed by indecision. Also, it looks like the biggest crowd-pleasers are two very obsolete SoLs, an out-of-timeline Greek frigate, and some rather ugly pseudo-frigate two-deckers that can't have sailed very well. Any chance we could get a groundswell going for one of the true 4th Rates, a merchant vessel or a lugger? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Malachi Posted October 11, 2015 Share Posted October 11, 2015 Gonna grab my popcorn and watch how this goes...it does have a certain entertainment value Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D. Federico de Gravina y N Posted October 11, 2015 Share Posted October 11, 2015 (edited) +1. The only exploration ships I've heard of are french or english. Are there exploration ships from other nations whose plans are known ?Spanish corvettes "Descubierta" and "Atrevida"http://forum.game-labs.net/index.php?/topic/6819-spanish-corvette-descubierta/#entry128986 Edited October 11, 2015 by RAE_Cmdt.Cavero 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LeBoiteux Posted October 12, 2015 Share Posted October 12, 2015 (edited) Spanish corvettes "Descubierta" and "Atrevida" http://forum.game-labs.net/index.php?/topic/6819-spanish-corvette-descubierta/#entry128986 +1. I really like it. We need corvets and light frigates. We also need exploration / trader ships. And we need nice looking vessels. All in one. For expedition and cargo shipment purposes, the 14x6lbs and 2x4lbs version could defend herself against small ship (up to brig ?). She may also fill in the gap between the 12-gun pickle and the 18-gun brig. The stronger armament (26 guns) would also be interesting (as an option) by making her a real warship corvet, a kind of lighter Cerberus, for brig and mercury hunting, coast patrolling, trader attacks... I definitely vote for her. Edited October 12, 2015 by LeBoiteux Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D. Federico de Gravina y N Posted October 12, 2015 Share Posted October 12, 2015 +1. I really like it. We need corvets and light frigate. We also need exploration / trader ships. And we need nice looking vessels. All in one. For expedition and cargo shipment purposes, the 14x6lbs and 2x4lbs version could defend herself against small ship (up to brig ?). She may also fill in the gap between the 12-gun pickle and the 18-gun brig. The stronger armament (26 guns) would also be interesting (as an option) by making her a real warship corset, a kind of lighter Cerberus, for brig and mercury hunting, coast patrolling, trader attacks... I definitely vote for her. I will try to find information qbout ber armament. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jodgi Posted October 12, 2015 Author Share Posted October 12, 2015 Also, it looks like the biggest crowd-pleasers are two very obsolete SoLs, an out-of-timeline Greek frigate, and some rather ugly pseudo-frigate two-deckers that can't have sailed very well. Any chance we could get a groundswell going for one of the true 4th Rates, a merchant vessel or a lugger? Dortrecht and Zeven are useless? pfft, even I could see that and I know (almost) nothing. You think Prinds Christian Frederik and Wasa are ugly and didn't sail well? <shrugs> Eendracht/Amphirite is a runner up in the votes right now, does that please your aesthetic taste? Whether the pseudos sailed well doesn't matter much. It's not like we have performance sheets to base the modelling on. Don't sit on your hands maturin! Make a post with an eligible ship that is in the neighborhood of trinco/connie, tell us why we should click, and I'll click it. Most of us know little and care little for the history bit, and I only want more choice where it matters for gameplay. Two ships have reigned supreme since Sea Trials and my only motivation for spending time in this sub-forum is to see they get some competition. Then there is the Spanish... Did they really have no 18/24 frigates to superfrigates? I'd love to click at a Spanish contender, but all I see are those big and slow waffenträgers. Your groundswell... I'd help you with the 4th rate (maybe), but have no idea what to click. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DazednConfused Posted October 12, 2015 Share Posted October 12, 2015 Im going to throw a curveball into the mix and suggest a razeed 74. these ended up with 54-58 guns and were beasts. capable of being 32pd frigates although for expediency usually carried 24's. portuguese, french and brits used these types of ship. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Subutai Posted October 12, 2015 Share Posted October 12, 2015 Are we trying to find potential trinco/connie rivals? I've said this before and I'll say it again, HMS Leander and HMS Newcastle were heavy 4th-rate frigates designed specifically in response to American Super-frigates. They would be natural choices. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ragnar hairy trousers Posted October 12, 2015 Share Posted October 12, 2015 we need some smaller trading ships too but i vote for the danish Indiaman sorry to tell you this mr mirones but that ship is a Swedish 18pdr privateer frigate "Jupiter" designed by Chapman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteelSandwich Posted October 12, 2015 Share Posted October 12, 2015 (edited) Maturin, im just going to trow this thought out there, maybe the very obsolete SOL's don't necessarily have to be modern day rivels to the connie. I mean, speed and mobility wise they will most definitely lose to it, yet made of stronger side structure would make them interesting vessels against AI and, in groups, against players. It would add some diversity to the 50-gun ship variety, which it surely could use. EDIT: just like some may deem the surprise obsolete, it would give different types of ships its own strength. Edited October 12, 2015 by SteelSandwich Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jodgi Posted October 12, 2015 Author Share Posted October 12, 2015 Are we trying to find potential trinco/connie rivals? Maturin, im just going to trow this thought out there, maybe the very obsolete SOL's don't necessarily have to be modern day rivels to the connie. Keep in mind it is mostly me nagging about ships in the trinco/connie league. Also keep in mind that speed makes or breaks a ship's usefulness in this game. Just look what happened to the Frigate and the Belle Poule. Belle is so pretty, turns well, is better protected and has more guns than a frig. Frig is slightly faster and has bow chasers so almost all competitive players would pick it instead of the belle. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteelSandwich Posted October 12, 2015 Share Posted October 12, 2015 Keep in mind it is mostly me nagging about ships in the trinco/connie league. Also keep in mind that speed makes or breaks a ship's usefulness in this game. Just look what happened to the Frigate and the Belle Poule. Belle is so pretty, turns well, is better protected and has more guns than a frig. Frig is slightly faster and has bow chasers so almost all competitive players would pick it instead of the belle. First thing comes to my mind is, why wast every bellona captain sailing a pavel then? Because pavels were nearly not used at all, whilst there only advantage was their speed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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