Losing ship after 5 sinkings

[Captiva]

Hi. I have been playing Naval Action for a couple of months now and I see a possible consumer problem. When I first started playing the game It took me around a month to earn enough gold to purchase a Yacht. It took me less than 5 days to be sunk 5 times and lose the Yacht and start all over from square one in a Lynx. I played another five weeks and earned enough to purchase a Navy Brig. I was sunk two times in the first day, and once again two days later.

 

I've played enough to know not to go up against ships larger than you if it can be helped. But, it can't always be helped. I was sunk once in the Yacht and once in the Navy Brig by catching fire and sinking from the explosion. Both happened in a very short time. I had little to no damage when I caught fire. This never happened in the Lynx so I was caught unawares of the possibility of it even happening. Another sinking in the Navy Brig happened when I taking on a Cutter one-on-one until a larger ship than mine entered the fight against me, and I was outnumbered. I wasn't losing these ships out of poor game play.

 

The point and suggestion I am making is that, I believe the penalty for sinking so few times and losing your ship for good is excessive when compared to the extreme amount of time it takes to earn enough gold to purchase the ship in the first place. As patiant as I am, I am getting to the point of frustration to where I am losing interest in the game. If I or anyone new to the game is going to spend weeks on end earning enough to be able upgrade ships, only to potentially get knocked down to Lynx status in a very short time window, then I fear the player will become bored and frustrated to the point of leaving the game for good.

 

I would suggest this; instead of losing your ship after x amount of sinkings and starting over at Lynx status, that the player being lowered down to the next lowest ship class from the one the player was currently qualified in. The player then starts play from that level to earn enough gold to upgrade to larger ships. I also suggest adding more ship "lives" (at least double the current amount) before losing any purchased ship for good.

 

I hope this helps the developers in making this a more enjoyable game./lyndrm

[SteelSandwich]

Long story short, that would destroy every form of future economy and ship crafting..

[maturin]

Long story short, that would destroy every form of future economy and ship crafting..

Not if a crafter actually has to make the ship, and is paid for it.

 

It would just be socialism. Which of course is a better approximation of how state militaries operate anyhow.

 

 

 

When I first started playing the game It took me around a month to earn enough gold to purchase a Yacht. It took me less than 5 days to be sunk 5 times and lose the Yacht and start all over from square one in a Lynx.

That said, this is only a problem because you are new. Once you get something with a few more guns, your battles will be enormously profitable.

[Captiva]

Ok, then if I understand your opposition, why should the player have any lives at all beyond "1"? Why not have to start at Lynx level everytime you lose your ship? The ship lives are an arbitrary number and I believe that number should be added to.

 

I can't argue with your point on the economy. I'm just thniking in regards to game enjoyment, there should be a faster path to earning gold so that the player can upgrade to larger ships more quickly. Especially if you're only getting 5 ship lives per ship before haviing to start.....all.....over.....agian. 

[Magnum]

What maturin said: I have Made enough to buy a yacht in two or three battles with a yacht - put 12 pound Cannonades on it and take on some bigger ships (brigs etc.) just run upwind if they start getting the better of you.

 

A yacht is really hard to hit if you juke and jive with it a lot.

 

Plus you can always do some trading to make a few extra shillings to support your ship sinking hobby.

[admin]

Ships are your tools and its ok to lose them. 

 

 

Current revenue from battles exceeds costs of repairs if you do damage to enemies.

In a lynx best targets are cutters and privateers - they might sink you but you will do good damage against them you will then be able to afford better ships.

It is advisable to upgrade guns as soon as you can (to 6lb or 12lb carronades) and switch to a cutter as soon as you can afford it.

 

Just make sure you don't attack much stronger vessels to not sink very fast. 

[Johny Reb]

Your dilemma is indeed connected to your skill. I'm not saying you are a bad player, just new. It should in no way take you 5 weeks to earn money for a yacht. If it does there is something wrong going on or you are just not playing more thatn one battle a day, but even then.... You aren't doing things right. It would help you if you could find other players to run with.

 

Just in case you were unaware..

Do you know that if you catch fire you must press 8 and go into survival mode. That will put the fire out.

The best way to escape in a fore and aft vessel like the yacht is to sail upwind. Do not sail downwind against a square rigger.

Try to point your bow at them more after you fire. If you can force the NPC to fire on your bow then you will wreck them.

Use carronades. You will one or two shot another privateer or cutter.

 

Have fun, don't give up, things will get better.

[Hugh Latham]

It never occurred to me to increase durability. I have always considered 5 to be 4 too many

[DeRuyter]

You can try some trading. You can make enough in one trade voyage in your Lynx to buy a cutter by finding the right deals. You can also capture and sail a trader Lynx with 20 hold slots and trust in upwind speed to run if necessary.

 

Also try capping a couple of trader brigs with your Lynx and send them back to your outpost/capitol to sell them.

[Lord Vicious]

i think you have playd the game a very few amount of time

 

on my first day i was able to reach post captain level and get a belle poul.. how you needed  a month  for go from lynx to yacht ?    , it took me 1h to go from lynx to yacht /cutter 

[ShiverMyTimber]

Personally I think they should make it like a realistic ship simulator and give ships 1 durability.
It might teach people to be more careful with their ships, use the help channel and go to tutorials.
Ship insurance however sounds like a better idea than "oh my ship just got sunk but I managed to paddle back to shore with it and get it patched up".
Have insurance at around 2/3 the current market price for the region? That sounds fair. You're still penalised for losing a ship but you won't be forced back into a lynx.

 

Remember: Don't sail what you can't afford to lose.

[Kaos]

Personally I think they should make it like a realistic ship simulator and give ships 1 durability.

It might teach people to be more careful with their ships, use the help channel and go to tutorials.

Ship insurance however sounds like a better idea than "oh my ship just got sunk but I managed to paddle back to shore with it and get it patched up".

Have insurance at around 2/3 the current market price for the region? That sounds fair. You're still penalised for losing a ship but you won't be forced back into a lynx.

 

Remember: Don't sail what you can't afford to lose.

Even with 4 ''lifes'' (considering you fit out the ship with the mods and actually want to keep them) majority are very careful about their engagements and tend to be not very happy and ''okay'' with it if you deplete even one off of them considering their initial reactions in chat. With one durability things will get even more cautious and salty which I don't care about but I think there needs to be more incentives to make people more interested in pvp instead of avoiding it even more and more, not to mention the extra timetax it would take to refit/stockpile everything in case of 1 durability system.

Think more about the ways to make pvp more attractive as an alternative to farming NPC's safely in some distant corner because the thought of losing a ship is too much of a mental block to some.

[Magnum]

Even with 4 ''lifes'' (considering you fit out the ship with the mods and actually want to keep them) majority are very careful about their engagements and tend to be not very happy and ''okay'' with it if you deplete even one off of them considering their initial reactions in chat. With one durability things will get even more cautious and salty which I don't care about but I think there needs to be more incentives to make people more interested in pvp instead of avoiding it even more and more, not to mention the extra timetax it would take to refit/stockpile everything in case of 1 durability system.

Think more about the ways to make pvp more attractive as an alternative to farming NPC's safely in some distant corner because the thought of losing a ship is too much of a mental block to some.

 

Don't confuse the screaming that people do when they are ganked with how people react to losing a dura in a reasonably fair fight that is a lot of fun for them.

 

It is comparing apples with mean switchblade wielding thugs.....

 

------

 

Sure some people that don't like getting ganked have moved into the wilderness to wait for Admin to fix the gank issue ---- so what?

[Prater]

Personally I think they should make it like a realistic ship simulator and give ships 1 durability.

It might teach people to be more careful with their ships, use the help channel and go to tutorials.

Ship insurance however sounds like a better idea than "oh my ship just got sunk but I managed to paddle back to shore with it and get it patched up".

Have insurance at around 2/3 the current market price for the region? That sounds fair. You're still penalised for losing a ship but you won't be forced back into a lynx.

 

Remember: Don't sail what you can't afford to lose.

 

When you buy a ship that has 5 durabilities, you aren't buying 1 ship.  You are buying 5 ships.  If you bought a ship with 1 durability, it would be 1 ship and cost 5x less.  That's why captured ships sell for such low prices, they are 1 ship instead of 5.

[jodgi]

Poetry

 

Is it wierd that I have a boner for Kaos right now?

[Kaos]

Don't confuse the screaming that people do when they are ganked with how people react to losing a dura in a reasonably fair fight that is a lot of fun for them.

 

It is comparing apples with mean switchblade wielding thugs.....

 

------

 

Sure some people that don't like getting ganked have moved into the wilderness to wait for Admin to fix the gank issue ---- so what?

I have engaged quite a few fights 1v2 where enemy outguns me and in one occasion I've been called a ganker while attacking a constitution+surprise alone in a con. None of them said GG or anything so don't sweat so much about me being the evil that only ganks others, have you lost a dura to me or why the salt?

[Magnum]

I have engaged quite a few fights 1v2 where enemy outguns me and in one occasion I've been called a ganker while attacking a constitution+surprise alone in a con. None of them said GG or anything so don't sweat so much about me being the evil that only ganks others, have you lost a dura to me or why the salt?

 

Hahahaha - you make me pee my pants with mirth - yes I have been ganked by you and Jeef off of Rincon - remember? Unless you consider your two fresh Trincos and one Connie against my single beat up Trinco fair? (3v1 - I never did get the name of the Connie Captain)

[Kaos]

Hahahaha - you make me pee my pants with mirth - yes I have been ganked by you and Jeef off of Rincon - remember? Unless you consider your two fresh Trincos and one Connie against my single beat up Trinco fair? (3v1 - I never did get the name of the Connie Captain)

I don't even know your name ingame but our deepest condolences to you for catching you pants down that day. Now how is this relevant to the topic? If you want to stir shit up why not pm me and let it all out there if you can't let it go?

It's important to find a way to get those people back involved in pvp who got discouraged by the reality of ''open world sandbox''.

[Magnum]

I don't even know your name ingame but our deepest condolences to you for catching you pants down that day. Now how is this relevant to the topic? If you want to stir shit up why not pm me and let it all out there if you can't let it go?

It's important to find a way to get those people back involved in pvp who got discouraged by the reality of ''open world sandbox''.

 

And there it is:

 

I am probably not the only person that has learned from experience you can't be PvPed with and who now just avoids you.

 

 

To you the problem with PvP is that people get upset when you bend them over a barrel and rip one of their ships lives out of their hands with bully practices and then them not being willing to do it again and again.

 

Until those who lean towards ganking are curbed - PvP will never "take off" - that is my opinion, and I'm sticking to it. Oh sure, there will be some PvP, just not "plenty" like me and others want.

[ShiverMyTimber]

I'd like to address a few posters who replied to my one life but insurance post. 
Firstly it would make PvP something that you might want to consider before jumping right in, if people are worried about fitting expensive modules to their ships then losing them in PvP then they're carebears tbh. Maybe full market value of the ship should be used as insurance as I hadn't considered modules but if you're going to have ships for PvP and ships for PvE then fitting the most expensive modules to your PvP ship may not be the wisest thing to do, instead forcing you to find a happy middle. Of course modules themselves should carry an insurance value though this should be around 50% of their market value. 
As for 5 dura meaning you don't drag your sunken ship back to port and instead being five ships; then why do you get to keep modules; it simply doesn't make sense and plays to the carebear side of things.
If you're in a group, or someone sails past an old shipwreck they may well find some of your modules intact, this also encourages people to work as a group rather than try to solo everything since if a ship gets sunk, cannons and other modules can be salvaged from the wreck during or after the battle by both you or the enemy.

Personally I feel it would add depth to the game rather than giving you five lives.

As for the ship costing 5x less, sure; but then it would insure for 5x less.

Personally I'd perfer naval battles to be something that people consider "Bringing a heavily undercrewed ship of the line into a PvP battle probably isn't the best of ideas, maybe I should stick to what I can sail well and learn how to sail better in cheaper ships" rather than "I'll bring my undercrewed ship of the line and just lose a dura if I die anyway, no big deal."

1 dura ships with insurance (excluding captured vessels that haven't got fake ownership deeds produced) would make the game much more visceral. Along with a few of my suggestion threads such as being able to pay barkeeps to give you the last port a player left and when they set sail and if they've passed close to any friendly fleets (giving you a direction) would encourage players to keep on their toes, rather than just to tab in and out of the game when sailing as they do now.

[Prater]

I'd like to address a few posters who replied to my one life but insurance post. 

Firstly it would make PvP something that you might want to consider before jumping right in, if people are worried about fitting expensive modules to their ships then losing them in PvP then they're carebears tbh. Maybe full market value of the ship should be used as insurance as I hadn't considered modules but if you're going to have ships for PvP and ships for PvE then fitting the most expensive modules to your PvP ship may not be the wisest thing to do, instead forcing you to find a happy middle. Of course modules themselves should carry an insurance value though this should be around 50% of their market value. 

As for 5 dura meaning you don't drag your sunken ship back to port and instead being five ships; then why do you get to keep modules; it simply doesn't make sense and plays to the carebear side of things.

If you're in a group, or someone sails past an old shipwreck they may well find some of your modules intact, this also encourages people to work as a group rather than try to solo everything since if a ship gets sunk, cannons and other modules can be salvaged from the wreck during or after the battle by both you or the enemy.

Personally I feel it would add depth to the game rather than giving you five lives.

As for the ship costing 5x less, sure; but then it would insure for 5x less.

Personally I'd perfer naval battles to be something that people consider "Bringing a heavily undercrewed ship of the line into a PvP battle probably isn't the best of ideas, maybe I should stick to what I can sail well and learn how to sail better in cheaper ships" rather than "I'll bring my undercrewed ship of the line and just lose a dura if I die anyway, no big deal."

1 dura ships with insurance (excluding captured vessels that haven't got fake ownership deeds produced) would make the game much more visceral. Along with a few of my suggestion threads such as being able to pay barkeeps to give you the last port a player left and when they set sail and if they've passed close to any friendly fleets (giving you a direction) would encourage players to keep on their toes, rather than just to tab in and out of the game when sailing as they do now.

 

1 dura ships with insurance (excluding captured vessels that haven't got fake ownership deeds produced) would make the game much more visceral. Along with a few of my suggestion threads such as being able to pay barkeeps to give you the last port a player left and when they set sail and if they've passed close to any friendly fleets (giving you a direction) would encourage players to keep on their toes, rather than just to tab in and out of the game when sailing as they do now.

 

No, it wouldn't.  After playing open world for months and months I can tell you it will do one thing.  And that is, it will make the ship replacement time last 5x longer.  And it is already an insanely high turnaround time when you get 5 ships out of the deal instead of 1.

[ShiverMyTimber]

 

 

No, it wouldn't.  After playing open world for months and months I can tell you it will do one thing.  And that is, it will make the ship replacement time last 5x longer.  And it is already an insanely high turnaround time when you get 5 ships out of the deal instead of 1.

If you could explain to me what ship replacement time is I might understand you. I don't have months of experience but you shouldn't get 5 lives; this isn't Crash Bandicoot, it's a naval simulator and in most simulators, when you die/crash/get blown up/eaten by a grue you die. If turnaround time has to do with resources and ships turning up in port all that needs be done is accelerate it 5x and either add insurance or lower the price of the ship so people aren't paying huge sums for less than they would have previously got.

The developers promised an uncompromising simulator, what I'm seeing is a lot of similarities to another naval mmo when it comes to things like ship dura and mastercrafted vessels. I'm hoping the 5 ships thing is a beta only solution so people don't have to continuously grind for money and keep up the pace of play though when the game gets more advanced I would really like to see the five lives pulled from the game as it goes against "uncompromising naval simulator" and it's not like I'm doing this just to be an ass to other players, I play the game too. Personally you should feel like you're putting all your cards on the table when entering a battle. If it's against NPCs you still have a good chance of running away. If it's with players, well it's a dog eat dog world. Don't sail what you can't afford to lose.

Edited August 19, 2015 by DavidDavidson

[Magnum]

If you could explain to me what ship replacement time is I might understand you. I don't have months of experience but you shouldn't get 5 lives; this isn't Crash Bandicoot, it's a naval simulator and in most simulators, when you die/crash/get blown up/eaten by a grue you die. If turnaround time has to do with resources and ships turning up in port all that needs be done is accelerate it 5x and either add insurance or lower the price of the ship so people aren't paying huge sums for less than they would have previously got.

The developers promised an uncompromising simulator, what I'm seeing is a lot of similarities to another naval mmo when it comes to things like ship dura and mastercrafted vessels. I'm hoping the 5 ships thing is a beta only solution so people don't have to continuously grind for money and keep up the pace of play though when the game gets more advanced I would really like to see the five lives pulled from the game as it goes against "uncompromising naval simulator" and it's not like I'm doing this just to be an ass to other players, I play the game too. Personally you should feel like you're putting all your cards on the table when entering a battle. If it's against NPCs you still have a good chance of running away. If it's with players, well it's a dog eat dog world. Don't sail what you can't afford to lose.

 

I'll try to explain:

 

Let's say you get attacked in your 5 dura Bellona off of Rincon (you are British) and you lose the battle. You will find yourself in a friendly port (likely Bahia Escocesa) with a Bellona with 4 dura's - and back out you go easy peasy.

 

Now let's say you do that in a 1 dura Bellona with insurance - you still end up in Bahia Escocesa - but without a ship. What do you do, file a claim I suppose and then get some gold and then go shopping for another Bellona. What if Bahia Escocesa lacks a Bellona at all? so you grab a free Basic Lynx and sail to where? the last Bellona was purchased at Spanish Town. Do you sail directly there hoping another like it is available? do you hop from port to port trying to find an acceptable Bellona?

 

All doodle daddle to me.

[minniyer]

i do something called "running away" when the odds are against me... i've been playing a month ish... never lost a ship

[Mr Slugish]

Losing a ship more easily due to having less durabilities may give each battle that bit of extra meaning and immersion. If you know that you still have 5 lives sometimes it doesn't matter if you sink, you get reset with the same ship. If the consequence of sinking was that you lost all/most of what you had worked for i think that captains would be a lot more careful about battles that they entered. The downside of this is the possibility of captains not wishing to enter battle in the first place anymore due to the high stakes of losing their ship.