>>> Beta 1.06 Feedback<<< (FINAL UPDATE 6th Release Candidate)

[Norbert Sattler]

In Update 6 I seemed to have a VP bug light, where the higher VP would always go to the defender and the lower to the initiator of the fight... which could be planned around.

But now in Update 7 I'm back to the hard-core VP bug, where no matter what I do, attacker or defender, victor or loser, the enemy always gets the higher VP.

And before you ask, I did no manipulation what-so-ever. No file editing, no cheat engine or any other third-party program of any kind.

[IshPR7777]

So, when I asking about British and Japanese battleship hulls between the late 1890s and the early 1900s before the HMS Dreadnought battleship of 1906, I've been watching the pages about these two guys:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HMS_Formidable_(1898)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Japanese_battleship_Mikasa

I was hoping to add these two battleship hulls into the game at 1898-1905 respectively, so the players who plays as Japan would be able to recreate Mikasa battleship in the game.

Note: You can see Mikasa Battleship as memorial ship in Yokosuka, Japan by the way

[Norbert Sattler]

I decided to do some tests on the grouping of different turrets with the same gun and here's what I found:

For a quick test I threw together a German ship in a 1927 custom game with one centerline quad, one centerline tripple and a pair of side-mounted twin turrets all 16" and they were not grouped, had their own firespeed and aiming progress.

When all the turrets were 16" twins, but a mix of two centerline and one pair of wing turrets it looks better, but potentially not correct in a way.
The two centerline turrets aimed in faster and the moment they got fully aimed status, the wing turrets also got aimed status. But then the centerline turrets lost the aimed status, with the wing turrets staying aimed.
Despite keeping up a steady barrage out of both centerline twins, they stayed locked at 0% aiming for ten salvoes without any sign of even starting to aim.

During those 10 salvoes the unaimed centerline turrets still managed more hits than I would expect from the 4-7 % hit-chance the UI told me, so I suspect this was probably just a UI bug, with the calculations working properly, but the numbers on screen being wrong, but I can't be fully sure.

As a next step I shut off the guns and waited a bit. When I switched them on again, the tooltip still said that no aiming was taking place, but within two salvoes they jumped from 0 straight to fully aimed.

 

Incidentally, could you increase the number of characters for ingame bug-reports? I did submit this bug ingame too, but had to shorten the report so much I'm not certain I was able to convey the entirety of the information properly, which is why I'm posting it here too just in case.

Edited June 8, 2022 by Norbert Sattler

[slightlytreasonous]

I'm gonna rant a bit more on the topic of guns.  Believe me, I rant out of good will.   Set in stone or not, I may know the answer but I haven't been told it so I'll post anyways.

 

I made a suggestion awhile ago, and that in itself is basically all I want to say here, but the point is guns shouldn't be come up with on a whim, they should be a more long term choice and the player should have true input on designing them.   Any bit of replayability helps.

 

 

Edited June 8, 2022 by slightlytreasonous

[ColonelHenry]

23 minutes ago, slightlytreasonous said:

I'm gonna rant a bit more on the topic of guns.  Believe me, I rant out of good will.   Set in stone or not, I may know the answer but I haven't been told it so I'll post anyways.

 

I made a suggestion awhile ago, and that in itself is basically all I want to say here, but the point is guns shouldn't be come up with on a whim, they should be a more long term choice and the player should have true input on designing them.   Any bit of replayability helps.

 

 

I really think we should get a detailed research for guns if they want to go with this kind of barrel length, diameter customization. Remove all the big gun tech and replace them with something like this. Say, we design a ship with 12inch L/55, the game should make it a research within the "big gun" section and it takes time to research the gun, once the gun is researched, the ship hull will take 1 month to complete after everything else is done if the entire ship hasn't finished and the ship is launched. The more 12inch L/55 +- 5 you make, the better that gun is. The bigger and longer the gun is and the earlier the player research those, the longer the research time and it should be long, the research money should probably only affect ~20% research time at max.You can also draw up ship design to research guns without making the ship; and you can only research 2 big guns at the same time to limit spam. You force people to build smaller big guns first by making it so that if the player design a BB with 14 inch guns in 1890 right away, it will take like 5-7 years just to research the base weapon meanwhile they are stuck with an 1880 12 inch starter gun which means the player will definitely lose the game since the AI will literally hit twice as accurate/fast with 1890 weapons within half a year or something. And since they skipped the 12 inch guns, at later dates, they will have to go back and develop 12 in guns if they want advanced 1920s 12 in guns. Right now, the game forces you to go all the way from 10 inch to 20 inch without any control.
And we need large guns that are 14-18inch during the 1890s, those existed in open turret and should be represented with the Mk1 weapons. Move the later turret 14-18 inch guns to Mk2.
Also, this will work nicely with separate gun house technology for better ship building experience which I think is a must have to fine tune ship designs to the player's liking.

This should make the game more about the player choices and their consequences. If the players focus too much on larger guns, they will find themselves heavily outnumbered and outshot by smaller and more numerous enemy ships at the point of the decision made as well as 40 years down the line if they refuse to change.

[Draco]

10 hours ago, o Barão said:

I would like to have that option. If the mechanic was balanced, it could be a lot of fun and interesting to go with short barrels, mainly in the early campaigns. (1890-1900)

Let's say the difference in accuracy from going from the shortest barrel to the longest barrel is, at most, a 3x accuracy multiplier.

Yes I will lose 66% accuracy, yes I will lose some pen, yes I will lose some range. But if I manage to get really close with the enemy, I would get the rewards by using a gun with a much higher rate of fire, and at very short distances, the accuracy and penetration disadvantages would not be a big issue anymore. A system that rewards both an aggressive style of gameplay with short barrels, and a cautious style of gameplay with long barrels.

A balanced mechanic.

 

The interesting part, is that we have this mechanic in Naval Action. Carronades vs mediums vs long guns. And all options are viable in combat. More choices, more interesting for the player to try new things. Here is atm, all about long guns, with slow reload and keep your distance.

Also deck pens.

Deck pen should get progressively worse with higher calibers at a given range because the extra velocity doesn't make up for the loss of angle of attack (at least if we go by real world physics), so a long gun should be REALLY good at smashing through side armour, but pretty lackluster when it hits the deck.

Just like IRL.

Edited June 8, 2022 by Draco

[UnleashtheKraken]

12 hours ago, neph said:

the weight is coming from the citadel. see thread: https://forum.game-labs.net/topic/40056-beta-106-update-5-impossible-to-balance-small-boats-due-to-citadel-weight/

Thank you, and yes, that makes total sense.  Why does a TB that doesn't even have armor have a citadel?  Must be a bug, I'm hoping it's easy to fix.  I like torpedo boats, my attack swarms will destroy all.

[havaduck]

17 hours ago, Nick Thomadis said:

*UPDATE 7 * (8/6/2022)

- Fixed various bugs of campaign that resulted in Alliances to not follow the events, and then creating a buggy situation with no battles and no activity. This is very roughly tested, so please check if the most critical issues are now fixed.

Note: Using Cheat Engines and doing any kind of back up to not use the latest save version, will result in game breaking  even cause the VP bug you report. Please do not report bugs if you know that you edit files yourself,  as it does not help us at all.

 

First: Sure thing! And second never did, I know its a statement to the crowd, but I want to make that point as well.

 

 Nothing serious, and the ?-Phönix did dissapear after I started building other ships.

 

Campaign is derailing pretty fast again: So I went to piss off the French and built a few ships. The usual. The british and germans went at each other throats even faster. Thats the usual too.

War with the French jsut started and I got this. I didnt have bad relations with the Germans, but I did turn down an alliance intentionally which cost me 50 relations. And then I got this - Great! Something different. I decided to go to war and see where this goes.

 

The French ofc ignored task forces that can defend themselves, but do pounce with their magic carpetes if they massively outnumber you. But thats not the point: The British went to war with the Italians, which I have positiv relations with and I am not at war with them. So ofc the game made me fight 3 light cruisers of theirs, which I sunk. No idea where those VP went.

This is the political situation right now:

 

I did send that save with a report. I hope it helps.

Edited June 8, 2022 by havaduck

[PalaiologosTheGreat]

Maybe increasing fun length should come with a tech and anything before is decreased/0% length

[havaduck]

And the campaign is dead again:

 

There goes my money. A blockade I cant do anything again because its broken.

 

I am now there twice, the french are just sitting there ....... not even task forces are out. I guess they are waiting for me to send a suffiently week force they can outnumber 10:1?

 

French VP against me are going up. No transports are being lost (from me at least). I am up there 4 times now.

 

I did have this go on a little longer. Had a column of AH flags up there eventually but I couldnt get any battles. Full fleet or just small TF for the French to pounce upon. It did trigger some 1 ship TF to appear again, but they arent fighting me or moving much.

 

3 battles in total before the campaign broke down completely. 

 

Edited June 8, 2022 by havaduck

[havaduck]

Another thing apart from the campaing, which you are obviously trying to fix.

 

Finally the Dock-Expansion is no longer linear, the more you do order at once, the more you get done in a given per month (and cost too!). Excellent.

Research needs something similar. It doesnt make sense to just put the slider at 100 % and only lower it temporally when low on cash.  The slider needs to be linear in research speed, but non linear in cash spending.  Thus with diminishing returns making "fast teching" ever more expensive the faster its supposed to be. Basically you should be able to drag the slider all to the right, but it should be hideously expensive. Also that would mean that a (compared to short but high peaks) lower but steady slider over time either produces the same results cheaper or faster thech for the same price.

It would also mean you can tech faster during war if you already gut the ships but get increased funds, and you cant just tech ahead during peace times with barely any ships and when sufficiently advanced built a bunch of floating spaceships and faceroll the enemy.

 

[SpecTRe_X]

8 hours ago, Nick Thomadis said:

True it is not. But unfortunately there is a large amount of reports that include some kind of false editing by users, creating all kind of problems to the game. 

The more I see of this beta the more I'm convinced the devs don't know how code works, don't have a means to quality test their work, or both. I get the very distinct impression that no one is testing any of this stuff on the dev side because if they were then surely things would be more functional when they're pushed out for public testing.

I don't know if this is the norm for the beta branches but it's indicative of a lack of ability on the dev side. I also highly doubt that bogus bug reports are as prevalent an issue as they're currently made out to be. At least one third of this thread seems to be about campaign issues like the one quoted below.

44 minutes ago, havaduck said:

And the campaign is dead again:

 

There goes my money. A blockade I cant do anything again because its broken.

 

I am now there twice, the french are just sitting there ....... not even task forces are out. I guess they are waiting for me to send a suffiently week force they can outnumber 10:1?

 

French VP against me are going up. No transports are being lost (from me at least). I am up there 4 times now.

 

I did have this go on a little longer. Had a column of AH flags up there eventually but I couldnt get any battles. Full fleet or just small TF for the French to pounce upon. It did trigger some 1 ship TF to appear again, but they arent fighting me or moving much.

 

3 battles in total before the campaign broke down completely. 

 

 

[Makko]

8 hours ago, admiralsnackbar said:

2 inch wunderwaffen:

It's really absurd how much better just spamming long 2.9s is compared to using any other small to mid sized weapon in the early game

Edited June 8, 2022 by Makko
it was F'ed

[jtjohn1]

Any idea when the VP bug will be fixed?  I do not mess around with my files.  Germany is my favorite country to play (I consider it one of the hardest) and I can't play it because every time I do the VP bug hits.  I just had a massive fight with the British (First fight) and didn't loose a ship (They didn't have a good design nor was it updated) and 37K VP points went to them.

Somewhat frustrating!

[Cryadis]

19 hours ago, Nick Thomadis said:

Note: Using Cheat Engines and doing any kind of back up to not use the latest save version, will result in game breaking  even cause the VP bug you report. Please do not report bugs if you know that you edit files yourself,  as it does not help us at all.

I can definatly say that i did not edit save files or use cheatengine at all to report the Vp bug i did previously (i do work in automotive quality asurance and customer support so i am quite aware that tempered base data causes pointless earch for errors).

Anyways currently i belive in uodate 7 of 1.06 there are still some mayor issues in the campain (tbh not an easy topic to tacle, as for example the left side overview does not support multiple different wars.. lets say britain vs germany and italy vs france at once).

If i may suggest getting these things straignened out first would be a priority, and after that getting the feature with guin's size and barrel lenght balancing in order makes sense.. to me personally ( i am quite aware it is not as simply as putting xy developers on one topic and after that put others on next topic).

Still i think the game is well made (we are on a beta after all) and shows huge potential, at least myself iam looking forward to any update and fix you provide and many thanks for your hard work so far

 

edit / addon:

From Nik's staement i would asusme there are indeed a certain amount of bugs reported caused my modified gamestates (might be be cheatengine or save editing in previous version). maybe it it possible to check for tampering (checksum calulation plus a flag that is fixed once validation failed) to enable you to discard bugs reports that are caused by user tampering ? i certainly cannot guess how much efford it would be, but in the end having a simple way to find out worthless bugreports would be a huge saving on quality / support work.

Edited June 8, 2022 by Cryadis

[ShakenU]

The AI needs an economic trigger to surrender... The British have been utterly crushed economically (and as a result they have 14 ships active... compared to almost 200 of their enemies... Yet the did not offer surrender, I don't know if it has to do with alliances or what, but this just results in all the provinces just go white flag. Yet France's ships (France has already collapsed economically) still partake. No peace screen or anything.

[Dave P.]

VP bug is definitely still here but only seems to crop up when I'm at war w/ France.

[SpecTRe_X]

I'm not going to do any further "beta" testing on this branch until the devs figure their code out. To be sure it wasn't a corruption issue I uninstalled and reinstalled fresh then spent another ~4 hours on a 1890 German start only to realize in 1917 that I was the only nation with a navy. Every other country was scrapping designs but never actually building anything. At this point I'd amassed over 2 billion in funds, was first in tech, and also had the largest navy.

Public beta testing is meant to capture smaller bugs that slip through the devs testing, not to replace dev testing entirely.

[admiralsnackbar]

6 hours ago, Draco said:

Also deck pens.

Deck pen should get progressively worse with higher calibers at a given range because the extra velocity doesn't make up for the loss of angle of attack (at least if we go by real world physics), so a long gun should be REALLY good at smashing through side armour, but pretty lackluster when it hits the deck.

Just like IRL.

I'd assumed that was already the case, did you check?

[Nick Thomadis]

*UPDATE 8 * (9/6/2022)

- Fixed critical bugs of the campaign related with alliances, which could make alliances/wars to not terminate and the game action to stall. (There are still known issues, please continue to report)
- Repaired the campaign AI to be able to cope with all the financial challenges and not bankrupt so easily.
-  Battle AI/Targeting critical repairs and improvements. The targeting should be now working as it should.
- Length caliber slight balance (low length has even higher fire rate and has slightly less range penalty). It is pending to make it modify the horizontal and vertical penetration accordingly.
- Accuracy fine tuning for all guns to have smoother dissipation at long ranges. This should address the remaining gun issues with the accuracy.
- Mission "Battleship vs Torpedo Boats" has now 6 torpedo boat opponents instead of 4 (to be challenging after latest changes).
- Further Auto-Design improvements to make it faster and more effective.
- Other minor.

Please restart Steam to download (It is advised to start a new campaign - Saves are not reset)

[crp1985]

A few things I've noticed in game:

1. ) After Beta patch 8, tooltip info popups now appear offscreen and are unreadable. 

2.) One of my main gun turrets on the ship in my screenshot was not rotating on target. It was one of the forward 13.5in main guns sitting on the deck.

3.) Germany's 12 in gun model is too big and can no longer be mounted on any tower when increased to 12.7in. A 15 in gun turret would fit on the same tower. The 13in gun model for Germany was smaller, which is why I'm using a 13.5 in gun on my ship in the screenshot.

 

[Traslo]

1 minute ago, crp1985 said:

A few things I've noticed in game:

1. ) After Beta patch 8, tooltip info popups now appear offscreen and are unreadable. 

2.) One of my main gun turrets on the ship in my screenshot was not rotating on target. It was one of the forward 13.5in main guns sitting on the deck.

3.) Germany's 12 in gun model is too big and can no longer be mounted on any tower when increased to 12.7in. A 15 in gun turret would fit on the same tower. The 13in gun model for Germany was smaller, which is why I'm using a 13.5 in gun on my ship in the screenshot.

 

The issue with tooltips is something I've had since the steam launch. Though for me I think it's due to DPI scaling being at 150% on my PC  though could be wrong.

[kineuhansen]

ok love that there is alliance in game now but we need to start the campaign with no alliance and we need option to lets us choose what nation we want an alliance with lets say i play as the british and wants an alliance with germany also you need to fix where fleets end up in battle like if i move a ship to the middle of north sea the same ship will have an battle in the east of denmark ps you know the green cirkle arround players fleet would love to see if there is an enemy fleet inside the cirkle the game will give you a battle insted of having random battles to show up on maps even when i have no ships at sea

[Traslo]

Did Battlecruiser I get pushed back or did all the tech before it get slower? Left one of my research focuses on cruisers and took till like 1915 to find it from 1890 start

 

AI appears to have a bug now where they'll stop putting task forces out. Had this happen to all AI around the same time the bug with very long waits for "update relationships" appeared.

Also Big Guns and Small Guns tech are so slow atm that in 1890 start you would have to keep a research focus on both and permanently be at 100% research funding to get close to historical speeds (and then you just fall behind quite badly in some other techs due to not micro-managing the three research bonuses)

Edited June 9, 2022 by Traslo

[Draco]

5 hours ago, admiralsnackbar said:

I'd assumed that was already the case, did you check?

It isn't, long guns currently have better deck pen at a given range.