>>> Beta 1.06 Feedback<<< (FINAL UPDATE 6th Release Candidate)

[Doomed]

5 hours ago, Plazma said:

I fight vs AI right now, they have 12,5"/55 gun with heavy ammo, 1892. 100% accuracy on the range 4km, full speed, when I have only 4,5% on gun 9,9"/55 or 9,9"/45 (max long barrel) and 12,3"/55 gun with 9,2%. How?! When I look on bonus the AI had +402% for found the range. with gun what fired once per 80s, when my 12,3" was too slow to be aimed. 

 

 

I had the same in the 1890 scenario -  a German battleship with 12.5" guns had much greater accuracy (going up to 100%) than any of my ships despite having much the same Pitch and Roll. All it's other guns seem to be in the same bracket as mine and I never noticed such a huge disparity with any other German ship

[slightlytreasonous]

Ill try not to let the salt shine through,(that was a lie) but 1.06 is frankly baffling.  

Even more pointless blocks because things are "obsolete".   Forced to upgrade my reload. Can I say no? Why not a warning?  Nope, game decided it knows better then me so Im simply not allowed to use worse things.   I love when I can't make a tradeoff or put myself at a disadvantage, I really do.

Basing gun caliber off of visuals? Really?  If this is supposed to be a, as the devs called it, "full player freedom sandbox", one of us doesn't know the meaning of those words.

instead of giving the player real choice in the guns they use, it's just set by the devs, and there goes replayability.  I love when one nation is always the meta because they have the best guns.  Simple solution- guns are always the same but the player gets to enter the exact caliber and barrel length themselves.  Yet here we are.

 

Pitch, roll, and engine efficiency always being awful because of tech is just awful.  Trust me, there's better ways to emulate unstable ships instead of advertising to the player, "your ship is awful!  We need to tell you this but you will never be able to do anything about it."

At the very, very least, change the colors of the text so it doesn't immediately seem to be such a massive issue to the player.

 

Sure, some things will have to be based in history, (hence why we badly need mod support, etc.  I'll give the benefit of the doubt THAT removal is temporary)

 

But is it really supposed to be a sandbox now?  

Edited June 5, 2022 by slightlytreasonous

[havaduck]

I did a germany campaign. Figuredn since diplomacy is fúcked, I have to make sure I am the one to first declare a war.

 

But frankly nothing is working as supposed.

- I have britain nearly out of ships. They had by far the most, now they have nearly none left. Their admiral was replaced, their goverment overthrown and they new guy replaced. Did get asked twice about peace but non was signed. I am at peace with them and relations are going down du to tension, but I am also still fighting them.

- I made peace with the french. So I am ofc still at war with them.

- I got a list that what was on offere in terms of reparations. I wanted two provinces. Didnt get them.

- The game said then the reparations would be over 200 millions. Guess what? The usual, didnt work.

- AH declared war on the french ....... so ofc the game thinks they are my enemy now.

- I cant the hell lift the blockade of both the factions I am supposedly at peace with, one of which has only 6 god damn ships left.

 

About the Refit mode, its cool in theory, but it takes so long, which is fine, but you cant refit damaged ships? Why not? Heavily battle damaged ships are the perfect candidate for a refit! The americans when they refloated their ships after Pearl Harbour also didnt perfectly reconstruct them AND then refit them, thats retarded. It would also make the time much more bearable. A 6 m refit and a 4 m Repair turning into a 8 month refit should be fair an logical. 

 

 

[havaduck]

I have an alliance with Italy:

I went down there to help them against the french, and those name do sound very french, I gotta say.

 

I am allied with A-H too. And yes that another fight against 70 enemy ships. NO ONE WANTS THAT! Its highly stupid, its infuriating and best of all, the games engine cant handle it.

 

Doesnt make any sense (never went bankrupt). Bonus: Everyone is at war against nobody.

 

My GDP has collapsed ...... makes no sense either.

 

I think I am done testing for a while. ..

[Traslo]

The "Update Relationships" panel still seems to bug out and just get stuck for an unbelievable amount of time. Sometimes it's 1-2 seconds, othertimes I've literally managed to get my Nintendo Switch out, play a full game of Rocket League, and still be waiting for it to finish.

Asked austria-hungary for a bunch of ships as war payment (Since Britain can't ask for any of their territory in a peace deal?), got absolutely none of it.

Edited June 5, 2022 by Traslo

[Norbert Sattler]

Found a minor visual glitch.

On the Austro-Hungarian BB1 I placed down two pairs of 51mm (2") turreted secondaries and increased them to 70mm.

Then I placed a third pair and that one had the visual size of the default 51, until I changed the gun values by a tick and reversed them.

I first noticed it a bit into a 1890s campaign where I already had the Mark 2, but in custom battles I saw the same thing with the Mark 1s and all other turreted secondaries (both open mount and encolsed turret) available in 1890, even if I middle-click on a placed down turret, rather than picking them from the menu.

[Nagato]

Question, why AI now do not use standard caliber guns, i mean 14 inch, 15, inch, 16, its always, 14.2, 14.5, 15.1, even for smaller caliber guns?

[LoSboccacc]

 

I've joined a war on the losing side, have been winning every battle and turning the tide, to the point that the mediterranean is secure and we're bringing the fight to the english channel

 

but apparently there's massive unrest and prestige loss and the government want a peace deal. even if we won every single battle. just because they're using their accumulated victory point in their score.

even if the total war isn't going *that* bad:

 

 

 

[LoSboccacc]

 

so shell can still pass trough belts and whatnot. 2 inches ap from the light cruiser on the left caused a ammo detonation

log confirm it wasn't some weird ange stuff, but a full 8.2inch hit

 

here's the gun details:

[LoSboccacc]

so yep, after a streak of victories, I got relieved from command:

 

[Traslo]

Had a game as Britain, didn't ally France, this eventually made the tension system lower relations. Got Germany to peace out (but no peace screen because beta I guess). Going to war with france offered me an alliance with germany, accepted it and the war screen still shows Germany on the other side. I'm officially +100 relations and allied to Germany but still getting battles against German ships. If I fight the battle, it shows Germany as friendly losses but their AI is still sinking all my transports etc.

A big problem right now is no one is ever truly removed from a war. e.g. if Austria-Hungary has a revolt they keep all their allies and still end up in battles, and even if you get one of the enemies to peace out they immediately create tension and re-enter the war officially in a few turns (And until then you get less naval funds but they keep entering battles)

The game still strongly expects everything to work like 1.05's campaign so it can't deal with anything but definitely allying with France as Britain.

Edited June 5, 2022 by Traslo

[admiralsnackbar]

Ship designer:

Clutter; I recommend giving players the option to hide/unhide designs from the design queue. 
Deleting designs; Creating a refit design for a base design sometimes makes it impossible to delete the base design even if the refit is deleted and there are no ships that conform to that original design. 



Funnels: 

The stats on the funnels have two problems, one is that the increase in funnel capacity is slower then the increase in cost and weight, second is that some funnels take up more space and don't have the funnel capacity compensated in relative terms. The result is that often the best funnels are the cheapest and lowest tech. 

[Plazma]

On 6/5/2022 at 10:32 AM, Nagato said:

Question, why AI now do not use standard caliber guns, i mean 14 inch, 15, inch, 16, its always, 14.2, 14.5, 15.1, even for smaller caliber guns?

I think because the AI roll for guns, 0-0.9 + -20%-+20% long barrel. 

It will be very nice to test 1/2 feature on the time, now 1.06 is a joke. Could we postpone the guns changes a little bit example for 1.07 and focus on:

-Correct aim of torpedo and the moment when they are lunch. 

-Aliance, War etc. 

-Take a look on GDP (See a post of havaduck where the AI have 5+7 times bigger GDP).

-VP.

-Some small visiual bug and placement bugs

-Pitch are broken for some of hulls (changing the 2" gun position by 1m on CA cause some times increasing pitch by 10%) 

-Similar stats for guns.

-Making a possible to build new version of ship Example I can build Bismark 1891, not Bismark 1890 -> Bismark 1891.

-Be able to copy the ship and build it. (Right now if I want make new ship, but on the base of another, I need to from the beginning build it.)

-Little explanation on what how works.

Btw. I found the issue related to guns, the bonus from the barrel length is wrong calculated wrong chosen. Before Aiming my 12" gun at range 6km have around around 1,3-1,5% chance to hit, after getting the aim, this pop up to 12-15% for vanila gun... for the gun with long barrel the basic accuracy is 2%-4% and is going to 40-51% after aiming! 

Anyway for me is sick that the gun of that same caliber, technology etc. after 20% more longest barrel have that big bonus to accuracy compared to no modified guns. at least 3-4 times are more accurate! In practice 3times more shots hits paying only 10% more weight and 60% more money and the gun shoots around 30% slower. (in the best case scenario, when I multi times tested that values could be different but longest barrels are much, much better sometimes is better have one  9"/45 than two 9"/38 in terms of dmg! When in terms of cost never 2x9"/38 is better than 9"/45)

Fun fact, the worst armor is the best armor, because you can buy it more  

 

 

Edited June 19, 2022 by Plazma

[Norbert Sattler]

I just had a rather confusing fleet encounter.

I had a task force of 4 CAs north-west of Sardinia set to Invade. And I had a group of 2 BBs in the Adriatic near Ancona set to Protect.

Then the campaign map showed a meeting basically right on top of my CA group, close enough for the symbol to touch the task force symbol. But for some reason it was not my offensive CA group that was right there that had to face off against the French, but my 19 kt pre-dreanoughts that had to go all around Italy to get there... the BBs ordered to protect the convoys in the eastern mediteranean.

Speaking of which, I have frequent encounters between by BBs and enemy forces, but my two groups of 4 CAs - one on protect and one on invade - have not seen a single encounter even after years of staying out.

[Draco]

10 minutes ago, Plazma said:

Btw. I found the issue related to guns, the bonus from the barrel length is wrong calculated wrong chosen. Before Aiming my 12" gun at range 6km have around around 1,3-1,5% chance to hit, after getting the aim, this pop up to 12-15% for vanila gun... for the gun with long barrel the basic accuracy is 2%-4% and is going to 40-51% after aiming! 

Anyway for me is sick that the gun of that same caliber, technology etc. after 20% more longest barrel have that big bonus to accuracy compared to no modified guns. at least 3-4 times are more accurate! In practice 3times more shots hits paying only 10% more weight and 60% more money and the gun shoots around 30% slower. (in the best case scenario, when I multi times tested that values could be different but longest barrels are much, much better sometimes is better have one  9"/45 than two 9"/38 in terms of dmg! When in terms of cost never 2x9"/38 is better than 9"/45)

Agreed. Should be at least 100% as heavy, after all you're not only increasing barrel length, you also have to increase the weight of hydraulics, the support beams need to be thicker to support the extra mass of the gun, the elevation & traverse system needs to be bigger and have more horsepower to achieve similar rates of turn ect.
Cost should also be at least +100%. Gun barrels are easily the most costly and time intensive element on a warship to build, often taking twice as long to develop as the ships they were eventually mounted on.
I don't think they should be less accurate than they are now, but short barrels should definitely be a lot more accurate so that max long barrels aren't literally the only design philosophy that's viable, and they should be prohibitively heavy and expensive (one 12"/45 is twice as effective as two 12"/38s? fine, but make it twice as heavy and expensive as well at the very least then).
Also, I have no idea why long barrels should fire slower. IRL a gun's reload is determined by the weight of the shell and it's propellant. Not the length of the gun it's fired from. Look at IRL guns and you universally find that caliber does not determine rate of fire. It makes zero sense, except from a gamey "we need to nerf this OP thing we made, so we'll introduce limitations that don't exist IRL because we have to leverage making their advantages far greater from than what they are IRL". Please change it.

[DieselPower]

Can confirm victory point switching is back with update 5. Didn't notice it in update 4.

 

Just gave 12000 to France and was awarded the 52 they earned....literally the first battle in a new campaign.

 

And no, there is nothing going on with my save.

Edited June 5, 2022 by DieselPower
clarification

[jtjohn1]

Just played UK from 1920 to 1945 on the highest difficulty level.

The good:
I love the extended campaigns.  I now have to prioritize how I spend my money and what I spend it on. 

I love the research speed up though as others have said it may be too fast.  It certainly was as the British but I haven't played Germany yet (I usually play Germany because it tends to be HARD) but the past two times I have tried I had the VP bug.  It really adds to the game play as you try to determine what to concentrate on in the tech trees.  When do you refit your ships etc.

Overall this has significantly helped game play at a strategic level.  Kudos for shrinking your naval budget when not at war to further constrict what your options are.  Do you mothball ships to have extra money?  Do you reduce the amount of merchantships and personell (Which you need for the next war) to go al in on research?

Some of the bad

I noticed that all of the nations (Except mine obviously) had MASSIVE naval forces in all of the harbors that they couldn't use (You saw them in the harbor but they never appeared as part of the fleet) Having to fight and keep these forces pruned down would have been an AWESOME thing especially in the later years as the UK's advantages in money really started to make themselves felt.

There are still a lot of bugs (But it's a beta so "Shrug" of course there are) but overall a really great addition.

 

 

[Plazma]

1 hour ago, Draco said:

one 12"/45 is twice as effective as two 12"/38s?

actually for 12" is more close to 3-4 times, no idea why... what worst, we compared dmg, not useful of gun. On the ship you have limited space and weight etc. that mean, you must buy 2 ships with 2x12"/38s to achieve this same firepower as 12"/45. In other words 12"/45 is 10 times cheaper than 2x12"/38s. + you keep the distance and shoot the enemy when they can't or barely they can. Have lighter armor compared to the enemy (the length also interfering with the penetration) etc. Simply 12"/45 >> 12"/38s. In the end you use 1,1"-2,9" guns and 12"-12,9" main guns.... for some reason you could considering 6"-8" as something "between". 

 

1 hour ago, Draco said:

Also, I have no idea why long barrels should fire slower.

Because of propellant. When you have longer barrel you can put more powder(to shoot the projectile) to achieve biggest muzzle velocity and because of that accuracy(short time of fly, etc. and more flatter way of fly.). Sorry for my English, but I can't describe it accuracy, below photo of ammo, shell hit the enemy ship and this white (propellant) is that what give you speed and power for shell. Ofc. if you put longest barrels you don't need put more propellant, but this is much less effective. I think we have some gold proportions propellant : length of barrel. 

Example if you put 5.56×45mm in the 2m long barrel this will don't shoot much longer than from normal barrel in use. If you want shoot 5.56 on the long range you will increase the caseate length, but because of the pressure in the barrel barrel must be longer. The topic is long and not easy, we don't have the best answer that is why we have diffrent calibers and even the shape of caseate and the size of powder).

Someone who know ballistic should explain it, but I hope I give the good idea, what and why. Also I recommended "ask grandpa google" why example tanks don't have longest and longest barrels.  

We probably use the last shape in the naval. 

Below the graphic show us the beautiful diplomacy between Germans and Britain  

 

[admiralsnackbar]

Diplomacy

Twice when at war with Britain i am given a peace offer, i ACCEPT the peace offer, followed by 'war continues' 

2 inch guns

I'm going to join the chorus of people saying these guns are too strong, especially when you do a 2.9 max length gun. They are simply too accurate compared to the 3 and 4 inch guns. I often find that in battles the 2 inch guns are doing the vast majority of my ships damage. 

Torpedoes

I suppose the damage isn't strictly a function of a shell's explosive filler, but even a small torpedo has significantly *way* more explosive filler than a shell. I think, especially with torpedoes being less accurate and more likely to 'dud' that the torp damage should be increased. 

 

Edited June 5, 2022 by admiralsnackbar

[SpecTRe_X]

1 hour ago, Plazma said:

...

Because of propellant. When you have longer barrel you can put more powder(to shoot the projectile) to achieve biggest muzzle velocity and because of that accuracy(short time of fly, etc. and more flatter way of fly.). Sorry for my English, but I can't describe it accuracy, below photo of ammo, shell hit the enemy ship and this white (propellant) is that what give you speed and power for shell. Ofc. if you put longest barrels you don't need put more propellant, but this is much less effective. I think we have some gold proportions propellant : length of barrel. 

Example if you put 5.56×45mm in the 2m long barrel this will don't shoot much longer than from normal barrel in use. If you want shoot 5.56 on the long range you will increase the caseate length, but because of the pressure in the barrel barrel must be longer. The topic is long and not easy, we don't have the best answer that is why we have diffrent calibers and even the shape of caseate and the size of powder).

Someone who know ballistic should explain it, but I hope I give the good idea, what and why. Also I recommended "ask grandpa google" why example tanks don't have longest and longest barrels.  

...

 

Not not really how any of that works with modern powders, "modern" meaning smokeless. Back when black/gun powder was used then yes, more powder meant more range but this was limited by the casting technology of the time.

In modern artillery, naval or otherwise, the powder load is a constant and the range is a combination of that powder load, shell, barrel length, and firing trajectory. The reason smokeless powder is so great is because you can increase the length of the barrel without having to also increase the powder load since the powder burns much cleaner and thus more completely. As a result, you get more gas and constant pressure.

Powder type also plays into this. This is easily seen in small arms where you have two primary types of powder: "rifle" which burns more slowly and "pistol" which burns quickly. If you use pistol powder to load a rifle cartridge you will typically destroy the rifle that fires it because the powder burns so quickly that it over-pressures the chamber and explodes the barrel and receiver. A large caliber naval piece will typically use a slower burning powder, relatively speaking, than one that burns quickly in order to maximize the gasses produced.

As far as ballistic coefficients this is a property of the projectile, not the barrel. A 55 grain 5.56 fired from a 12" barrel has the same general BC as one fired from an 18" barrel. The only way this changes is if you change the projectile weight. If you go up to a 72 grain 5.56 then you change the BC because now the projectile is heavier and spinning faster, making it less susceptible to the environment it passes through as it flies as a result.

Ballistic coefficients also change when you make a projectile longer. If you make a long & heavy projectile that projectile becomes more stable, but there is a ratio you have to hit for how long it is relative to its bore size or you increase the threshold at which it begins to wobble. This is why a .308 is more stable and has a greater effective range than a 5.56 because the .308 is a longer, heavier projectile. The powder load, muzzle velocity, and barrel length are secondary to that because all of the powder & barrel length in the world isn't going to change the BC of a 5.56.

Small arms "caliber" is also different than artillery in that the caliber of small arms speaks to the projectile's bore size whereas "caliber" in artillery deals with the barrel length. A 5.56 is a 22 caliber projectile regardless of the barrel it's fired from but a 5" can be fired from a multitude of gun calibers.

[jtjohn1]

It would also be nice after you get blockaded if you wind up with a power projection that's 20X higher then the power that's blockading you AND ARE AT PEACE with them they would stop blockading you

[Werwaz]

On 6/4/2022 at 11:09 AM, Nick Thomadis said:

*HOTFIX UPDATE 5 * (4/6/2022)

- Optimization on: Battle AI, Aiming, Shell Ballistics.
- Fixed German Dual Turrets that did not scale correctly in Length caliber.
- Campaign tech progress adjusted to be a little slower for techs that are too advanced.

Please restart Steam to download (Saves not reset).

A list of suggested improvements:

1. rebalance guns
2. fix the campaign
3. fix resistance

Starting off with the guns, I'm not so sure that aiming and shell ballistics are that well optimized...

late era heavy guns are basically unusable with how utterly shit their accuracy is right now

some accuracy curves from 1940 tech guns out to 10 km as of now:

9"- 100, 65, 20, 8.5, 4.1

12"- 100, 100, 52, 24, 12

15"- 100, 42, 17, 9.4, 5.7-

16"- 61, 24, 10, 5.4, 3.4

18"- 29, 12, 5.4, 3.1, 2.1 

20"- 13, 5.9, 3.9, 2.9, 1.9, 1.3

Y'all starting to see the problem?

generally, a bigger gun with more range is supposed to be more accurate, and not the other way around. Whilst they shouldn't be one shotting ships at 50km like in patch 1, their accuracy should still be exponentially higher than that of smaller guns, and not the other way around. we have a very big problem if a 12" gun is exponentially more accurate than a 20" gun. 

As for the campaign, its gonna be a hard pass for now until the peacetime mechanics are mostly bug free.

At the moment, tension starts affecting relations way too soon, causing basically endless war with about a year of peace in between. they should kick in at about -75 instead of -1.  War missions still appear even after a peace treaty is signed. peacetime budgets are also a bit too low in my opinion. 

I also think that the resistance stat needs to be reworked so that hulls in the same category have similar (+-5) resistance values, since some hulls like the American and British super BBs have abnormally low resistance that makes them non competitive compared the hulls like the Austrian super dreadnought and the German super battleship. On the other hand, the "Fast Battleship" battlecruiser hulls have too much resistance for a battlecruiser. 

My solution would be as follows: (+-5 variation for each group)

Super BBs: 105 resistance

Modern BBs: 95 resistance

Modernized Dreadnoughts: 95 resistance

Large Battlecruisers (hulls like Fast Battleship, Super Battlecruiser, Modern Battlecruiser, etc.): 80 resistance

Small Battlecruisers (all of the Large Cruiser hulls): 70 resistance

[Makko]

I find myself having to purposefully lose battles because of the Victory point bug, to stop the campaign from ending too soon (as I am punished for doing well in a war, and will be forced out of office), it's rather frustrating.

 

 

[Norbert Sattler]

I repeat my earlier question: How do I get peace negotiations?

If I get the box that asks if I want to accept peace and agree, the war just ends without even a further notification (unless it doesn't work and the war goes on despite my decision). And if I "Fight to the end" the war goes on until there's a revolution in the enemy country or they go bankrupt... in neither case do I get a peace negotion screen either.

[BELEW848]

so if this game is going to be like rule the waves will we be able to pay a nation to build a ship like u can in rule the waves?