Battle Rating for Ports still TOO high

[Gregory Rainsborough]

BR for port battles are still too high.

People wishing to participate in RvR continue to move to nations that have shown a capability to field large fleets because they are a necessity to be competitive.

BR needs to be lowered to give smaller nations a chance to compete and to give an incentive for people to move to smaller nations.

[z4ys]

not the port BR is to high but that you need a portbattle fleet + screeners and at its best 25 screeners in the biggest ship as possible

[North]

So 10 players are to much for a nation??

Should Pb be 3vs3😂

With lower BR you will never get close to port because of screening.

RvR is nation based and should be nation effort. 

[Mouth of Sauron]

BR values are fine I think.  If you can't fill up 5k BR within a nation, I'm not sure what to tell you.  

I think the bigger issues however why and how certain ports are assigned it's BR.  Cayman Brac and Little Cayman for example are 5k BR.  The capital port George Town is 5k also.  The port and it's layout is far too big for only 5k BR.  

Another issue I think is the lack of locking ports to certain ship ratings as it used to be way back when.  1st rates, 4th rates...etc.  5K BR ports would be incredibly dynamic with only third rates and under.  Imagine the 900br shallow ports with only 6th rates instead of suprises and renos?   

[Gregory Rainsborough]

10 quality players on a consistent basis? Yeah, that is too much for many nations. We don't all have massive clans to lean on.

I'm not saying that they should be 3v3's. You could easily halve the BR and there would be 5v5 and such.

I preferred the old diversity of port battles rather than this bland 5, 10, 20 etc... I've always said that the BRs should never have been changed from then.

Edited January 6, 2020 by Gregory Rainsborough

[Mouth of Sauron]

Just now, Gregory Rainsborough said:

10 quality players on a consistent basis? Yeah, that is too much for many nations. We don't all have massive clans to lean on.

I'm not saying that they should be 3v3's. You could easily halve the BR and there would be 5v5 and such.

there were 950 players on yesterday.  If a nation can't field 10 players reliably than it would appear that we have a too many nations problem and not a BR isn't low enough problem.  

[Gregory Rainsborough]

Just now, Mouth of Sauron said:

there were 950 players on yesterday.  If a nation can't field 10 players reliably than it would appear that we have a too many nations problem and not a BR isn't low enough problem.  

Most are Russian players I would bet

[Mouth of Sauron]

Just now, Gregory Rainsborough said:

Most are Russian players I would bet

Ah yes, how quickly the number of VP captains outside carta is forgotten.

Your nation used to have similar numbers.  Lose less battles and maybe SNOW clan can stop ostracising the clans that actually show up, like MONKX, out of the nation.  Just a thought.  

[Gregory Rainsborough]

2 minutes ago, Mouth of Sauron said:

Ah yes, how quickly the number of VP captains outside carta is forgotten.

Your nation used to have similar numbers.  Lose less battles and maybe SNOW clan can stop ostracising the clans that actually show up, like MONKX, out of the nation.  Just a thought.  

I said the same thing then as I am saying now.

Got nout to do with being Dutch.

[z4ys]

Tbh most people dont care about RvR its a necessary evil to compete in ship crafting.

Thats a reason why people join the winning side. You just have to care less and others will do the job for you. Xmas truce was great. Just go out pvp and dont care.

It was once said/written that only around 10% of the playerbase ever joined a portbattle.

And when you look at the great battle result screens that are always the same usual suspects.

lets face it not everyone enjoys RvR but all the shiny stuff is linked to rvr. Winning matters.

A stronk RvR team in your nation means less headache for yourself.

Edited January 6, 2020 by z4ys

[Angus MacDuff]

1 minute ago, z4ys said:

Xmas truce was great. Just go out pvp and dont care.

Loved the truce!

[Raekur]

The BR of ports is not the issue here, if a nation can not field 10 people to go after a port that is an issue on the player side of the equation not on the mechanics side. What is needed to resolve this is either one of two options. Either reduce the number of nations or have there be incentives to join the smaller nations. The first option can directly impact the marketing of the game while the other can be exploited by the use of alts or mains just nation hopping. The issue with lowering the BR of ports is that it does nothing to help the smaller nations as the larger ones could flip the port in a single run while your smaller nation is still trying to get the people together to do the mission. 

The alliance system may help smaller nations but also brings with it the same complaints as it did before where the 2nd and 3rd largest nations joined together to go after the largest. The largest nations whined that the 2nd and 3rd were not making their lives easier by fighting each other. 

Maybe a tax based on nation size would work since it would represent the cost to maintain holdings over long distances. 

[Never]

If a nation such as VP can't field 10 port battle ships then it's not a BR issue. Some key points, some already mentioned here:

It's an issue of motivation to join RvR. More rewards for active participation in RvR might be better than just dropping BR which is already low enough. Better rewards in PBs and maybe the clans that ask for screeners can pay those screeners from their own rewards/tax money. 

In the case of Santo Domingo for example, the port makes millions a week but no one from that clan that owns the port felt like showing up to defend it's surrounding ports? Not sure what the issue was there. But If a nation doesn't have 10 players to defend a port you have to think of things beyond just pushing lower port BR. 

Same as Christendom, I'd like to see 900BR ports locked to 6th rates and below; and 5000BR ports locked to 3rd rates and below. 

If screening is meant to continue to be a part of RvR, I think it should also be recognized by some form of in game mechanic/feature. If the game allows to create a 'screening fleet' which can get special rewards for fighting near the area of the port that is being contested around the time of the PB; then more people might become interested in screening. 

Last thing, if trading and alts continue to be the best way to achieve success in obtaining anything in game then most people will just flock to trading and not care about RvR which costs them more money and ships that what they get out of it. As someone already said, why put effort into RvR when you can spend your time doing something else and get all the RvR benefits anyway. 

We need solutions to get more players interested in RvR not to keep RvR small for the all the usual players. 

Edited January 6, 2020 by Never

[shunt]

1 hour ago, Gregory Rainsborough said:

BR for port battles are still too high.

People wishing to participate in RvR continue to move to nations that have shown a capability to field large fleets because they are a necessity to be competitive.

BR needs to be lowered to give smaller nations a chance to compete and to give an incentive for people to move to smaller nations.

lowering the BR  further would lead to elitism and the same few players competing  against each other and the majority of  thos wishing to partake never getting a chance .. If you cant field a port battle fleet I wouldnt attack other nations simple

 

[Anolytic]

Battle Ratings are too low. Too many ports are just 5000 BR and involve too few people. The people who screamed for lower BR in the first place are now complaining that they get screened out of every fight. 

These low BR ports are detrimental to clan-play, player-development and player-retention. With so low BR battles are determined as the first ship sinks, and there is no room in these fights for players in training. Clans/nations only bring their most experienced players when every individual ship counts so much. With higher BR individual skill is less important and group cohesion is more important, which allows groups to try out and integrate new members. 

1 hour ago, Gregory Rainsborough said:

10 quality players on a consistent basis? Yeah, that is too much for many nations.

How do you think experienced players are made? They don't grow on trees. They are forged in the line of fire, by bringing them to battles.

If you always bring the same "quality players" to every battle you're going to eventually run out of players from natural selection. And we're going to have to lower and lower BR again and again.

[z4ys]

Reduce ow battle grp size

[Captain2Strong]

1 hour ago, North said:

So 10 players are to much for a nation??

Should Pb be 3vs3😂

With lower BR you will never get close to port because of screening.

RvR is nation based and should be nation effort. 

when nearly everyone around you is a careabear, you need to find a way that makes it possible for a smaller group

[North]

7 minutes ago, Bryan Von Gyldenloeve said:

I heard plenty of reasons not to do RvR. But honnestly I think most do like pb’s. They just dont do them for different reasons. 
- The effect of losing your crafting port( most danes don't dare, because we been told, we would lose Road town to)

- The cost of making ships(dubs)

- Fighting in shitty ships(Danes only gave a 40 point port)

Thats the main reasons I hear. Can’t talk for other nations, but that what I often hear in oure nation. So we do nothing, and just hope nobody hurts us.

Any Danish captain wanting to fight swedish can get Russian build ships, until san juan is given back to danish.. either by conquest or by negotiation.😎

[Raekur]

3 hours ago, Mouth of Sauron said:

BR values are fine I think.  If you can't fill up 5k BR within a nation, I'm not sure what to tell you.  

I think the bigger issues however why and how certain ports are assigned it's BR.  Cayman Brac and Little Cayman for example are 5k BR.  The capital port George Town is 5k also.  The port and it's layout is far too big for only 5k BR.  

Another issue I think is the lack of locking ports to certain ship ratings as it used to be way back when.  1st rates, 4th rates...etc.  5K BR ports would be incredibly dynamic with only third rates and under.  Imagine the 900br shallow ports with only 6th rates instead of suprises and renos?   

The issue you will encounter with this is that while you limit the size and composition of the port battle fleet it does not limit the size of the screening fleet. Take a look at shallow port battles, there you have 5th rank ships approaching the port to attack and getting screened out by Wasa's. Unless you are a large nation able to send a fleet of 2-5th rate ships to counter the screening fleet and at the same time send in 10-12 other ships to attack the port then it will not happen. Your argument for a smaller nation that can only send 10 players becomes background noise to the barrage of cannon fire. Alliances are one way in which smaller nations can compete but keep in mind that unless it is restricted to only the bottom half of the nations you will once again run into the issue of the larger nations joining forces. Any suggestion made needs to be examined for ways in which it can be used in a manner you did not intend. The ideas here are good in the initial examination but can lead to unintended outcomes that make the whole worse than before.

[Conte D. Catellani]

But lower br don't mean also that big nation can attack multiple towns in the same day or anyway be ready to strike more often in a week? 

[Mouth of Sauron]

10 minutes ago, Raekur said:

The issue you will encounter with this is that while you limit the size and composition of the port battle fleet it does not limit the size of the screening fleet. Take a look at shallow port battles, there you have 5th rank ships approaching the port to attack and getting screened out by Wasa's. Unless you are a large nation able to send a fleet of 2-5th rate ships to counter the screening fleet and at the same time send in 10-12 other ships to attack the port then it will not happen. Your argument for a smaller nation that can only send 10 players becomes background noise to the barrage of cannon fire. Alliances are one way in which smaller nations can compete but keep in mind that unless it is restricted to only the bottom half of the nations you will once again run into the issue of the larger nations joining forces. Any suggestion made needs to be examined for ways in which it can be used in a manner you did not intend. The ideas here are good in the initial examination but can lead to unintended outcomes that make the whole worse than before.

Agreed, but this is how the game functioned for a couple of years.  Alliances were necessary then and I feel like they are now. 
 

Really what this thread needs to be about is how 11 nations is terribly diluting the overall quality of RVR gameplay. 

[TheDread]

I have some ideas why you're having trouble filling PBs.   I don't think you had 3k worth of Dutch ships at Azua last night, let alone 10.   I also don't remember seeing any Dutch names in combat news, btw...  The swedes got 3 kills, but everyone else who died all night was Dutch.  If Liam is okay with you claiming that 'we' got his 3 kills, that's between the two of you. 

One of the realities of war and politics and life in general is that you have to consider the consequences of your actions...  and pick battles you can win.   Simultaneously driving off all of your teammates and then attacking British ports was a strange choice, imo.  You picked the wrong horse here - starting that fight without considering what anyone else might do in response.  We had no intentions of attacking the Dutch when we decided that the Swedes couldn't treat us like shit and still expect our support.   You did this to yourselves and I'm GLAD the other clans you've dragged into this fight are pushing back against you. 

Also - check your timers.  The two ports that secure a 55 point port aren't where you save money or leave dormant clans in charge.   We've all made the mistake of missing a timer.  But when we do, we blame ourselves for doing something dumb, not beg for a game mechanic change that would have let us get away with it.  

In a more general way, since you're pretending that the timing of this is coincidental and the post isn't about last night...  the same rules apply to any nation.  If a player is CHOOSING to play in a nation that can't field a 10k PB fleet, they need to consider their moves carefully and secure victory before seeking battle, not the other way around...  as Sun Tzu reminds.  That's THEIR choice to remain in a weak nation, and they should be doing it because they like the challenges it imposes.   

[Raekur]

4 hours ago, Mouth of Sauron said:

Agreed, but this is how the game functioned for a couple of years.  Alliances were necessary then and I feel like they are now. 
 

Really what this thread needs to be about is how 11 nations is terribly diluting the overall quality of RVR gameplay. 

You think 11 is bad, from another post I hear they are considering adding a couple more to represent the real life nations that are the highest contributors to the game. 

Alliances are only going to be a band-aid for the real issue and at best a short term one. If alliances are introduced again, and GB and Pirates unite against Russia, will we see the same situation as from before with some clans within Russia complaining that GB and the Pirates are not fighting each other and that it is unfair? Wasn't this the very reason why the alliance system was removed in the first place since both servers were making the same complaint? Will the alliance system permit the dragging of a smaller nation into a war they would otherwise not be involved in much less be able to afford the losses it would incur? There are pros and cons to the system that need to be considered beyond those I have listed here.

[Gregory Rainsborough]

8 hours ago, Anolytic said:

How do you think experienced players are made? They don't grow on trees. They are forged in the line of fire, by bringing them to battles.

They all just moved from the smaller nations to one nation.

Russia's success comes from integrating several of the former nation's RvR fleets. REDS took in the Danes and Spanish for instance.

[Gregory Rainsborough]

4 hours ago, TheDread said:

I have some ideas why you're having trouble filling PBs.   I don't think you had 3k worth of Dutch ships at Azua last night, let alone 10.   I also don't remember seeing any Dutch names in combat news, btw...  The swedes got 3 kills, but everyone else who died all night was Dutch.  If Liam is okay with you claiming that 'we' got his 3 kills, that's between the two of you. 

One of the realities of war and politics and life in general is that you have to consider the consequences of your actions...  and pick battles you can win.   Simultaneously driving off all of your teammates and then attacking British ports was a strange choice, imo.  You picked the wrong horse here - starting that fight without considering what anyone else might do in response.  We had no intentions of attacking the Dutch when we decided that the Swedes couldn't treat us like shit and still expect our support.   You did this to yourselves and I'm GLAD the other clans you've dragged into this fight are pushing back against you. 

Also - check your timers.  The two ports that secure a 55 point port aren't where you save money or leave dormant clans in charge.   We've all made the mistake of missing a timer.  But when we do, we blame ourselves for doing something dumb, not beg for a game mechanic change that would have let us get away with it.  

In a more general way, since you're pretending that the timing of this is coincidental and the post isn't about last night...  the same rules apply to any nation.  If a player is CHOOSING to play in a nation that can't field a 10k PB fleet, they need to consider their moves carefully and secure victory before seeking battle, not the other way around...  as Sun Tzu reminds.  That's THEIR choice to remain in a weak nation, and they should be doing it because they like the challenges it imposes.   

Ah hello British player. Unfortuately only one person died that was Dutch that evening in an actual ship. The rest were troll Pandoras and stuff for the PB. Hardly a resounding success.

Most clans don't care about us attacking GB except LIONS and everyone has told them to hello kitty off which is why they're leaving the Dutch.

It was so hard to get you to take ports when I asked, had I known all I had to do was attack a backwater shallow water ports I'd have not bothered

The timing of this is simple, it doesn't have anything to do with Azua etc... but the fact that consistently there are empty port battles. Monstecristi wasted an hour of my life I shan't get back because presumably you guys couldn't fill it. There are too many empty PBs which is a symptom of too few players spread among the nations. It's a consistent them of mine, even when Dutch were the zerg, that the nations should be balanced to provide better gameplay.

Brits'll be a weak nation soon that I know