The Evidence of Cheating Can't Possibly Be More Obvious

[Bull Hull]

Well, well, well, here we are again.  The players and developers are at a crossroads that presents a fundamental moral option.  That is, to paraphrase the Bard, “To tolerate cheating, or to not tolerate cheating.  That is the question.”

Last week I started a thread about the obvious cheating that occurred after the map wipe.  Surprisingly, or not, a few people tried to rationalize ways to excuse or even defend the cheating.  Several people even falsely claimed that I didn’t provide any evidence to support my public claim of cheating, supposedly because I didn’t provide some silly video.  For them, apparently, a video is the only thing that can possibly qualify as reliable evidence and so facts and truth are not sufficient.  But the FACTS I presented last time ARE EVIDENCE OF CHEATING.  The FACTS I will present again ARE EVIDENCE OF CHEATING.  The unavoidable and irrefutable FACT/TRUTH is that I did provide evidence to support my public claim of cheating and I am about to do it again.

To paraphrase an infamous Mexican bandit, “Video?  Video!  What video!  I don’t need no stinking video!”  In other words, just look at the damn map because there is the frakking evidence.  The evidence of cheating can’t possibly be any clearer because, again, the evidence of the cheating is right there on the frakking map and so the evidence is in plain view for everyone to see.  Or, maybe I should say the evidence is in plain view and crystal clear except to those who are willfully blind to it, and except to those who lack the integrity to admit the cheating is happening.

So, here we go again.  Per the new rules/mechanics for port battles the ONLY way for a nation to set a PB for a minor port in a county is by FIRST taking the relevant capital.  Some Pirates figured out a loophole in the coding for a way to set a PB WITHOUT FIRST TAKING THE RELEVANT COUNTY CAPITAL. This is a clear and obvious violation of the new rule/mechanic.  If that isn't cheating then NOTHING is cheating.  Then some French figured out a loophole for a way to set a PB WITHOUT FIRST TAKING THE RELEVANT COUNTY CAPITAL. This is a clear and obvious violation of the new rule/mechanic.  If that isn't cheating then NOTHING is cheating.  Now, for the argument challenged, here is another way to see the argument:

P1 (FACT) – Per the new rules/mechanics for port battles the ONLY way for a nation to set a PB for a minor port in a county is by FIRST taking the relevant capital.

P2 (FACT) – Some Pirates figured out a loophole in the coding for a way to set a PB WITHOUT FIRST TAKING THE RELEVANT COUNTY CAPITAL. Then the Pirates exploited that loophole and continue to leverage that exploit.  [FTR Exposing the exploit is good testing, so Bravo Zulu for that.  Shame for using and leveraging the loophole.]

P3 (FACT) – Then some French and/or some Pirates figured out another loophole for a way to set a PB WITHOUT FIRST TAKING THE RELEVANT COUNTY CAPITAL.  Then the French exploited that loophole and continue to leverage that exploit.  [FTR Exposing the exploit is good testing, so Bravo Zulu for that.  Shame for using and leveraging the loophole.]

P4 (FACT) – By exploiting and continuing to leverage the coding loophole some Pirate and French players violated the new rules/mechanics of the game.  And, they continue to violate the new rule/mechanic as long as they continue to leverage and benefit from their exploitation of the coding loophole that permitted them to do something that is supposed to be impossible.

P5 – Intentionally violating rules/mechanics and continuing to exploit and benefit from said violation of the rules/mechanics is cheating.

C – Therefore, some Pirate and some French players are cheating because they are clearly and obviously violating the new rule/mechanic. If this isn’t cheating then nothing is cheating.

Obviously, I don’t think much about that bogus warning I got.  If using FACTS to truthfully, accurately, and rationally describe reality is something that can get me banned then so be it.  If this forum has so little regard for facts and truth and rationality that posters can get banned for presenting inconvenient facts and truths, then this forum doesn’t deserve more my time.

The developers can either continue to turn a blind eye to and tolerate the cheating by doing nothing about it, or they can finally do the right thing by doing something meaningful to stop the cheating.  Some players can, and probably will, proactively tolerate the cheating by rationalizing ways to defend it and by lying with a false claim that I have not provided evidence to support my public claim of cheating.  The evidence can't possibly more clear nor more obvious because it is right there on the map.  Other  players can passively and covertly tolerate the cheating by saying nothing.  And some others can, probably will, and should condemn the cheating and the toleration of the cheating.

So, this is, again, a crossroads that presents a fundamental moral option.  I hope the players and the developers have the courage and integrity to choose the right path.  I'm not even going to bother looking at any replies, IF this even stays up and open long enough for there to be any replies because the inevitable rationalizations to defend the cheating will be too depressing.  Ditto for the childish ad hominem attacks that will follow.

Edited May 8, 2019 by Bull Hull

[Teutonic]

I felt like i just read a proposal for a movie idea.

[Raekur]

Difference between ignorance and stupidity....the ability to accept information.

I do believe that the reason that VCO was able to take that initial port was due to an oversight in the new coding that permitted existing hostility missions to remain after the server and map reset. This is NOT cheating and I am willing to bet that it has been explained to you already - reference first line of this post to see where you are headed. Now VCO not releasing that port that was gained due to the oversight is not against the rules as written but it is in bad form and they flat out admitted that they knew this. Should an admin step in and strip them of the port after they clearly stated that they would retain the port and "take good care of it", yes as they bypassed the new mechanic and would have realized it after the very first hostility mission was successful and well before locking in a port battle. Again, bad sportsmanship at the most but not cheating and shows that as far as being able to do the right thing, VCO is a little lacking in that department. If you recall there was a hot fix pushed out right after the wipe that would remove hostility missions after the server reset to ensure that something like this did not occur again.

SO TLDR - IT IS NOT CHEATING and I am pretty sure you have been instructed in much kinder words to stick a cork in it and move on.

[Beeekonda]

I, Dread Pirate CheekyBreeky of VCO, being accused in cheating without evidences and NOT in Tribunal section for the 2nd time, demand this person to apologize or get his ability to post on forums taken away!

 

[Hammy]

So happy this topic has been brought up again I was getting a little bored of reading other stuff concerning naval action 🤣😂🤣

[Severus Snape]

my eyes actually were watering reading this

[Sir Texas Sir]

gets out the popcorn, "I just want the next hotfix and than release so we can't stop bitching about this."

[William Death]

2 hours ago, Beeekonda said:

I, Dread Pirate CheekyBreeky of VCO, being accused in cheating without evidences and NOT in Tribunal section for the 2nd time, demand this person to apologize or get his ability to post on forums taken away!

Ditto!

I, Dread Pirate William  Death, Admiral of the Fleet, Master Duelist, Loser of Surprises to LGVs, and etc., of VCO, being accused in cheating without evidences and NOT in Tribunal section for the 2nd time, demand this person to apologize or get his ability to post on forums taken away!

 

 

Seriously though, again? 

What part of "using mechanics that were working as intended" is unclear? ALL mechanics used to get ports that you consider "cheating" were, in fact, working as intended at the time. It was found, through testing, that these legacy mechanics don't mesh well with the intentions for the new RvR system. As a result, mechanics have been changed, or, per Admin's post, will be changed.  

 

Anyways, these topics are entertaining, so I shouldn't complain too much  

Edited May 8, 2019 by William Death

[MidnightLight]

Do you need me to give you a hug because you seem to be Crying over the same thing Alot.

[RedNeckMilkMan]

How is it cheating if the mechanics of the game allow it to occur? We are not killing our alts to gain an advantage, we are not duplicating items to get an advantage. We set a port battle. If you don't want us on the East Coast then play the game instead of trying to get the devs to do it for you. I have never seen someone try so hard to avoid playing a frickin game.

Edited May 8, 2019 by RedNeckMilkMan

[Yehoodi]

18 minutes ago, RedNeckMilkMan said:

How is it cheating if the mechanics of the game allow it to occur? We are not killing our alts to gain an advantage, we are not duplicating items to get an advantage. We set a port battle. If you don't want us on the East Coast then play the game instead of trying to get the devs to do it for you. I have never seen someone try so hard to avoid playing a frickin game.

Why don't you come up the coast through Ays by leap frogging from Fort Royal? 

Simple question.

Do you have an answer?

[RedNeckMilkMan]

2 minutes ago, Yehoodi said:

Why don't you come up the coast through Ays by leap frogging from Fort Royal? 

Simple question.

Do you have an answer?

Because there exists in the game a mechanic which allows us to not have to do that. 

Why don't you flip San Mateo? 

Do you have an answer?

Edited May 8, 2019 by RedNeckMilkMan

[Yehoodi]

I find it funny that folks make posts like the ones contained in this thread defending the actions, then wonder why there is an underlying layer of frustration in this community, bordering on a toxic situation.   It is does not help the community nor the growth of a game we all love to play to grow as there will only be negative reviews on Steam.

Listen guys were are here to work together as a team to test the game and on one level need to work together on each test mechanic.  Not have a some folks try to find a way to get around game mechanics so they can run up and down the east coast like they have been doing for nearly 2 years.  

If you guys find a way to come through Ays, then so be it, i will tip my cap to you.  

This other stuff only makes the game extremely frustration for some, including me.  

If any of you cared about your fellow community members, you would put aside your desired to sail the east coast for a while and test the mechanics in question, and find your way via Ays.  I not sure why this is difficult for you to do. 

 

[Yehoodi]

11 minutes ago, RedNeckMilkMan said:

Because there exists in the game a mechanic which allows us to not have to do that. 

Why don't you flip San Mateo? 

Do you have an answer?

Yes, we should not have to.   Answered.  

If you wish to take Ays from the south, then we will have to take Ays, and we would have to deal with that issue when it arises. 

Understand?

Let the thing flows as they may . . . Not sure why this is so complicated for some folks.  

I have ZERO problem dealing with things that I need to deal with under game mechanics, like stopping an attempt to roll up the coast from Ays.  

Edited May 8, 2019 by Yehoodi

[King of Crowns]

IF YOU don't like us having san mateo then take it from us. before we take san Augustine from you. 

[RedNeckMilkMan]

2 minutes ago, Yehoodi said:

I have ZERO problem dealing with things that I need to deal with under game mechanics, like stopping an attempt to roll up the coast from Ays.  

You seem to have trouble understanding that this is the current mechanics of RVR in the game. 

You can disagree but the Devs don't. I don't play the game by your rules I play it by the Devs' rules.

Edited May 8, 2019 by RedNeckMilkMan

[Yehoodi]

Just now, King of Crowns said:

IF YOU don't like us having san mateo then take it from us. before we take san Augustine from you. 

Again, what you do not understand is the flaw in your point.   You should not even be there.

I have ZERO problem if you all earned your way up the coast via Ays.  Cap tipped to you folks and you all are mostly great PvP and overall players.  And fun to fight with you guys, btw when i see you all. 

Also, Kings, lets be honest, you and I, and WO and VCO, ALL know why you guys did what you did cause you all did not want to spend the time, resources, and energy to come up the coast from the other side of the map.  So you guys too did not want to scrap like you are asking us to do with San Mateo

If you wanted to come that way you would have, but you wanted the short cut.

The frustrating part is this, a short cut was used.  Would of been nice for us in the USA (especially after being ganked for like 2 years) to be able to cruise around the US for a few weeks and then have a nice go around at Ays.  

 

 

[Oli Garchy]

1 minute ago, Yehoodi said:

Again, what you do not understand is the flaw in your point.   You should not even be there.

I have ZERO problem if you all earned your way up the coast via Ays.  Cap tipped to you folks and you all are mostly great PvP and overall players.  And fun to fight with you guys, btw when i see you all. 

Also, Kings, lets be honest, you and I, and WO and VCO, ALL know why you guys did what you did cause you all did not want to spend the time, resources, and energy to come up the coast from the other side of the map.  So you guys too did not want to scrap like you are asking us to do with San Mateo

If you wanted to come that way you would have, but you wanted the short cut.

The frustrating part is this, a short cut was used.  Would of been nice for us in the USA (especially after being ganked for like 2 years) to be able to cruise around the US for a few weeks and then have a nice go around at Ays.  

 

 

you do know there will be another map wipe and fixes to these current issues?

 

on a side note, as a pats fan i would think you would appreciate a small bit of rule bending to win in some cases.

[RedNeckMilkMan]

3 minutes ago, Oli Garchy said:

on a side note, as a pats fan i would think you would appreciate a small bit of rule bending to win in some cases.

No rule bending, Admin says it's fair play then it's fair play. Player opinions are nice and have been argued to death in countless threads that are becoming spam at this point. 

Edited May 8, 2019 by RedNeckMilkMan

[Msk]

3 hours ago, Bull Hull said:

Well, well, well, here we are again.  The players and developers are at a crossroads that presents a fundamental moral option.  That is, to paraphrase the Bard, “To tolerate cheating, or to not tolerate cheating.  That is the question.”

Last week I started a thread about the obvious cheating that occurred after the map wipe.  Surprisingly, or not, a few people tried to rationalize ways to excuse or even defend the cheating.  Several people even falsely claimed that I didn’t provide any evidence to support my public claim of cheating, supposedly because I didn’t provide some silly video.  For them, apparently, a video is the only thing that can possibly qualify as reliable evidence and so facts and truth are not sufficient.  But the FACTS I presented last time ARE EVIDENCE OF CHEATING.  The FACTS I will present again ARE EVIDENCE OF CHEATING.  The unavoidable and irrefutable FACT/TRUTH is that I did provide evidence to support my public claim of cheating and I am about to do it again.

To paraphrase an infamous Mexican bandit, “Video?  Video!  What video!  I don’t need no stinking video!”  In other words, just look at the damn map because there is the frakking evidence.  The evidence of cheating can’t possibly be any clearer because, again, the evidence of the cheating is right there on the frakking map and so the evidence is in plain view for everyone to see.  Or, maybe I should say the evidence is in plain view and crystal clear except to those who are willfully blind to it, and except to those who lack the integrity to admit the cheating is happening.

So, here we go again.  Per the new rules/mechanics for port battles the ONLY way for a nation to set a PB for a minor port in a county is by FIRST taking the relevant capital.  Some Pirates figured out a loophole in the coding for a way to set a PB WITHOUT FIRST TAKING THE RELEVANT COUNTY CAPITAL. This is a clear and obvious violation of the new rule/mechanic.  If that isn't cheating then NOTHING is cheating.  Then some French figured out a loophole for a way to set a PB WITHOUT FIRST TAKING THE RELEVANT COUNTY CAPITAL. This is a clear and obvious violation of the new rule/mechanic.  If that isn't cheating then NOTHING is cheating.  Now, for the argument challenged, here is another way to see the argument:

P1 (FACT) – Per the new rules/mechanics for port battles the ONLY way for a nation to set a PB for a minor port in a county is by FIRST taking the relevant capital.

P2 (FACT) – Some Pirates figured out a loophole in the coding for a way to set a PB WITHOUT FIRST TAKING THE RELEVANT COUNTY CAPITAL. Then the Pirates exploited that loophole and continue to leverage that exploit.  [FTR Exposing the exploit is good testing, so Bravo Zulu for that.  Shame for using and leveraging the loophole.]

P3 (FACT) – Then some French and/or some Pirates figured out another loophole for a way to set a PB WITHOUT FIRST TAKING THE RELEVANT COUNTY CAPITAL.  Then the French exploited that loophole and continue to leverage that exploit.  [FTR Exposing the exploit is good testing, so Bravo Zulu for that.  Shame for using and leveraging the loophole.]

P4 (FACT) – By exploiting and continuing to leverage the coding loophole some Pirate and French players violated the new rules/mechanics of the game.  And, they continue to violate the new rule/mechanic as long as they continue to leverage and benefit from their exploitation of the coding loophole that permitted them to do something that is supposed to be impossible.

P5 – Intentionally violating rules/mechanics and continuing to exploit and benefit from said violation of the rules/mechanics is cheating.

C – Therefore, some Pirate and some French players are cheating because they are clearly and obviously violating the new rule/mechanic. If this isn’t cheating then nothing is cheating.

Obviously, I don’t think much about that bogus warning I got.  If using FACTS to truthfully, accurately, and rationally describe reality is something that can get me banned then so be it.  If this forum has so little regard for facts and truth and rationality that posters can get banned for presenting inconvenient facts and truths, then this forum doesn’t deserve more my time.

The developers can either continue to turn a blind eye to and tolerate the cheating by doing nothing about it, or they can finally do the right thing by doing something meaningful to stop the cheating.  Some players can, and probably will, proactively tolerate the cheating by rationalizing ways to defend it and by lying with a false claim that I have not provided evidence to support my public claim of cheating.  The evidence can't possibly more clear nor more obvious because it is right there on the map.  Other  players can passively and covertly tolerate the cheating by saying nothing.  And some others can, probably will, and should condemn the cheating and the toleration of the cheating.

So, this is, again, a crossroads that presents a fundamental moral option.  I hope the players and the developers have the courage and integrity to choose the right path.  I'm not even going to bother looking at any replies, IF this even stays up and open long enough for there to be any replies because the inevitable rationalizations to defend the cheating will be too depressing.  Ditto for the childish ad hominem attacks that will follow.

You do realize admin said this isnt cheating and is allowed right? SO you're entire argument is invalid. I think someone is mad he got sunk by a mortar brig today in his ocean

[Yehoodi]

8 minutes ago, RedNeckMilkMan said:

You seem to have trouble understanding that this is the current mechanics of RVR in the game. 

You can disagree but the Devs don't. I don't play the game by your rules I play it by the Devs' rules.

And the problem is just that, the devs don't.   We have players that want to take short cuts and the devs do nothing about it.  

A simply solution would of been to make San Mateo and St Mary go neutral and we could of been on with our testing of our new mechanic.  

And again, we could of just as likely had port battles at Ays next week or so or later where we are defending ports and hay maybe we might of lost Ays and had to fight down there, and well so be it.  

My point is not that I want the US coast to be clean but that I want folks  to earn they way to the coast. 

[Yehoodi]

16 minutes ago, King of Crowns said:

IF YOU don't like us having san mateo then take it from us. before we take san Augustine from you. 

Oh btw, why do not you try to take San Augustine without the help from the Pirates 😎?  hehe.

Right?

One question deserves the next.  Its two nations against the US.  

Even i can not stop that in my cutter. 😎

mano mano?

 

Edited May 8, 2019 by Yehoodi

[Oli Garchy]

4 minutes ago, Yehoodi said:

And the problem is just that, the devs don't.   We have players that want to take short cuts and the devs do nothing about it.  

A simply solution would of been to make San Mateo and St Mary go neutral and we could of been on with our testing of our new mechanic.  

And again, we could of just as likely had port battles at Ays next week or so or later where we are defending ports and hay maybe we might of lost Ays and had to fight down there, and well so be it.  

My point is not that I want the US coast to be clean but that I want folks  to earn they way to the coast. 

this current setup with everyone having ships reps outposts ranks etc is not the true test of front lines. when everyone is in basic cutter or tutorial to rank up, grind and hold ports it will be a BIG difference than the base mechanics test that we are doing. (DLC ships everywhere for a little while)

Edited May 8, 2019 by Oli Garchy

[RedNeckMilkMan]

1 minute ago, Yehoodi said:

Oh btw, why do not you try to take San Augustine without the help from the Pirates 😎?  hehe.

Right?

One question deserves the next.  Its two nations against the US.  

Even i can not stop that in my cutter. 😎

mano mano?

 

The Pirates didn't even kill anything today... They do what they want because they want the content. 

[Yehoodi]

3 minutes ago, RedNeckMilkMan said:

No rule bending, Admin says it's fair play then it's fair play. Player opinions are nice and could be argued but the rules are set by the boss man.

Yes rules and penalties are set by the boss man.  But that does not make the natives happy.  The fact that the boss man say so, does not make it correct morally speaking, just the boss man's opinion.

Look on one hand it is fun to have you guys on the coast here and there to it add fun content.   But it can be tough.

But when folks are looking forward to some peace and quiet for a bit which is broken up by something that should not happen it causes frustration.