Dear Developers.

[John Cavanaugh]

Cost breakdown for building a Teak/White oak Trincomalee (assuming you're in one of the big clans or on their clan friend list. Using doubloon/CM prices from LT, median between Buy/Sell contract prices)

Teak Logs - 50,000 doubloons = 1000 logs. 413 logs needed

White Oak - 50,000 doubloons = 1000 logs (correct?) 194 logs needed

Permit - 25 CM.

approximately 30,000 doubloons, at La Tortue median price is between 2.5 and 3.5 million reales baseline cost.

25 permits, roughly another 1.25 million reales.

For the crafter to produce the ship, assuming entirely that the crafter has direct and unimpeded access to teak and white oak, the production cost exceeds 4 million reales.

We all know that the four indiamen trading fleet is the most efficient way of producing reales, so as an example, George Town to Flatts, assuming 160 textile machinery in hold. approximately 8,000 reales profit per item after tax, ~1.3 million reales profit for a dangerous trip that will take about 3 - 4 hours for the round trip. That means that our crafter needs to spend roughly 12 hours in game to generate the money necessary to procure the woods and permit, if he has direct unimpeded access to them in the first place. For those who do not, I would refer you to try to buy teak, or even sabicu, on the open market. it is for sale by contract in no free port, and to my knowledge no nation's capitol, because of its exorbitant cost.

Conversely, I can put in an hour of overtime tomorrow, buy a Rattvisan and click it out daily, murder my way through a sea of Oak/Oak belle poules, and shitpost in Global about plebs who cant afford to pay to win carebears who sail trading ships in a game about boats.

Edited April 6, 2019 by John Cavanaugh
spelling

[Njord]

3 minutes ago, John Cavanaugh said:

Cost breakdown for building a Teak/White oak Trincomalee (assuming you're in one of the big clans or on their clan friend list. Using doubloon/CM prices from LT, median between Buy/Sell contract prices)

Teak Logs - 50,000 doubloons = 1000 logs. 413 logs needed

White Oak - 50,000 doubloons = 1000 logs (correct?) 194 logs needed

Permit - 25 CM.

approximately 30,000 doubloons, at La Tortue median price is between 2.5 and 3.5 million reales baseline cost.

25 permits, roughly another 1.25 million reales.

For the crafter to produce the ship, assuming entirely that the crafter has direct and unimpeded access to teak and white oak, the production cost exceeds 4 million reales.

We all know that the four indiamen trading fleet is the most efficient way of producing reales, so as an example, George Town to Flatts, assuming 160 textile machinery in hold. approximately 8,000 reales profit per item after tax, ~1.3 million reales profit for a dangerous trip that will take about 3 - 4 hours for the round trip. That means that our crafter needs to spend roughly 12 hours in game to generate the money necessary to procure the woods and permit, if he has direct unimpeded access to them in the first place. For those who do not, I would refer you to try to buy teak, or even sabicu, on the open market. it is for sale by contract in no free port, and to my knowledge no nation's capitol, because of its exorbitant cost.

Conversely, I can put in an hour of overtime tomorrow, buy a Rattvisan and click it out daily, murder my way through a sea of Oak/Oak belle poules, and shitpost in Global about plebs who cant or afford to pay to win carebears who sail trading ships in a game about boats.

Thank you, this was pretty elaborate and sums it up nicely.

[p i t]

Silly Irishman is too late to repair the damage, where were you months ago to voice with everyone else. game needs a full reboot, discussions always dead-end now, but good luck. 

[HachiRoku]

Just now, pit said:

Silly Irishman is too late to repair the damage, where were you months ago to voice with everyone else. game needs a full reboot, discussions always dead-end now, but good luck. 

anyone ever tell you to hello kitty off? 

 

[van der Clam]

IMO, the only things that need changed to combat DLCs are 1) the rare woods being less rare by opening up more ports for those woods, 2) allowing captains to place buy contracts in enemy nation ports, and 3) getting rid of crafting RNG by diminishing the RNG percent as we gain crafting XP...maybe for each particular ship. If these things were changed, IMO, I would be happy taking any ship against these DLC ships and would feel 1-click DLC can be combated.

1. I don't think rare woods was asked for by anyone and the current woods stats make some nations way OP against others. Maybe this could be fixed with a wood stat adjustment.
2. If rare woods are slightly less rare (being available in maybe only a handful of other ports) then we need the ability to place contract orders in enemy ports. The danger factor is still great trying to enter and exit these ports, but we need better access than current situation.
3. I do not mind crafting RNG to an extent, but we need to be able to make it less harsh. I propose RNG percent dropping the higher the crafting level. I wouldn't mind if this was also implemented for each ship rate, or even each ship. Say by my 4th crafted Essex the RNG drops 10%; by my 6th Essex the RNG drops another 10%, etc, etc. That way we could become experts in crafting particular ships or rates.

If these things were changed, I would feel much more adept in taking on DLC ships. I would feel my ship is much more capable against DLCs. Then I wouldn't feel wasted every time I encounter one.

If none of these 3 things can be implemented, then yes, absolutely does 1-click DLC need to change. Maybe getting rid of DLCs to be created with rare woods unless the player has the resources. Maybe also requiring DLC ships to be built with the player's Labor Hours.

Edited April 6, 2019 by van der Decken

[Guest]

IMO dlc in a mmo has no place in it when the dlc is about ingame item that obviously breaks with the game mechanics, if a  player has not much time to play the game he would manage in an other way. I bought the requin, herc and port dlc because i felt forced to do it or else i would be in disadvantage over others. The flags and ship skins should be available as ingame content instead and a guy bought the flag dlc for me so i didnt care about it, and im not gonna buy the skin dlc nor the L'hermione or Rättvisan dlc (same example as OP). I had hopes for the game, its unique and has a great potential, but its mmo mechanics are ruined by all these dlc's unfortunately..

[toblerone]

50 minutes ago, HachiRoku said:

@Everyone 

To bad you all had to buy the Herc and requin  If you all had any brains at all you would have seen it then. 

 

 

I may be an half-carebear, but I have not bought a single DLC ship.

I preferred to exile myself in peace server instead.

Bye mate … 

 

[Vernon Merrill]

Nobody cares about your purity.  Either play the game or don’t.  

[John Cavanaugh]

7 minutes ago, Vernon Merrill said:

Nobody cares about your purity.  Either play the game or don’t.  

"[insert strawman that has nothing to do with the premise of the criticism]. [your feedback is not welcome because it is bad wrong think]" - ROVER, all day e'ry day 2015-present

[HachiRoku]

13 minutes ago, Vernon Merrill said:

Nobody cares about your purity.  Either play the game or don’t.  

Nobody cares about someones opinion that is contradictory. 

"Despite the fact that I strongly advocate for logistics and crafting to require movement of goods and materials in the OW, I accept the fact that some people simply dont have the time to fully engage in those activities!"

Sit back, think and then tell us all how much you don't know what the hell you are talking about. 

Edited April 6, 2019 by HachiRoku

[toblerone]

44 minutes ago, Vernon Merrill said:

Nobody cares about your purity.  Either play the game or don’t.  

Isn't he a tester? A tester is supposed to give reasoned opinions and suggestions about the game. He did this.

So please tell us why you came here trolling? 

 

[Guest]

2 minutes ago, toblerone said:

Isn't he a tester? A tester is supposed to give reasoned opinions and suggestions about the game. He did this.

So please tell us why you came here trolling? 

 

not in the case of the ROVER players, nothing in the game are critique worthy and everything works perfect in their mind

[John Cavanaugh]

13 minutes ago, Wyy said:

not in the case of the ROVER players, nothing in the game are critique worthy and everything works perfect in their mind

Admin should fire them, they are terrible at shilling positive PR

[Guest]

25 minutes ago, John Cavanaugh said:

Admin should fire them, they are terrible at shilling positive PR

they are great at creating forum pvp though

[Vernon Merrill]

Stay respectful.

The moderation team.

Edited April 7, 2019 by resarE

[Shrez]

3 hours ago, toblerone said:

Isn't he a tester?

LoL i hope not!

[LIONOFWALES]

9 hours ago, HachiRoku said:

By craftable i mean you get a ship permit when you redeem. (No free DLC ships!.)

I think it would be better also if the DLCs were Craftables that cost no Dabloons to craft. This would make sense because the game is centered around a player driven economy... all this being said, I have all the DLCs and am enjoying these ships... perhaps these DLCs will become permits instead one day... permits with a cool down. This way... the wood types and materials required would still need to be collected for building the ship and would nullify the effect of the easy DLC ship. 

Now there is another argument that is also valid... that, if a customer purchased a DLC ship with real money, that they could use it right away in whatever build they want every 24 hours. Its not free, we pay real money to run these ships...

The DLC ships also provide the more relaxed community of this game to enjoy larger vessels than schooners and brigs. But all the same, I personally would have no issues with the DLC ships getting switched to DLC permits. Other players I am sure would have a ham with this, and this would be due expected because... after all they paid for the ship.

Anyway.. this was my 1/2 cent worth.

Good luck and sail safe.

[Marquês do Bonfim]

So you're literally paying to grind...? I mean, I don't really enjoy the DLC ships, I got the L'Hermione because that's my favorite frigate right now, but still think it's so freaking gamebreaking to have the option to simply one-click get a frigate to get going, it breaks the whole crafting system. I've been watching a few videos about the past crafting system and it used to be so in-depth and full of resources that you had to make, made sense to do the grinds and it was rewarding (#saynotorngcraft), right now it's simply wood/frame = RNG trim, makes no sense. If I want to make a ship with a strong-ass build and leave it slow af, I should be able to. If I want a middle ground, I should be able to, if I want a fast but strong ship, I should be able to.

Also, core nations should have some type of bonus when crafting in a national port. If you're brit, you get a bonus HP+Thickness. If you're french, you get a speed+rigging bonus, if you're spanish, you get a planking+thickness bonus. Things like that would make the game even more historical, since french ships were way faster but weaker than the brit ones.

Edited April 7, 2019 by Portuguese Privateer

[toblerone]

8 hours ago, Vernon Merrill said:

Oh my.....   you guys clearly have me confused with someone who gives two shits about your feelings...   

P.S.--  I'm the ROVER guy who doesn't care...   so eat a bag of d....

I think you miss the point: our feelings are not the problem at all.

The problem is that the fail of Game Labs public relations consisted also in allowing free (in the sense of not sanctioned at all) trolling against any criticism. The unpunished toxic attitude of some users (and you are the best example ot this) was the perfect gasoline on the fire of the other side toxic attitude ….  and we all know which was the final outcome of this: a lot of banned critic testers turned into enemies of the game that unleashed a shitstorm in the internet and on steam, damaging the image of the game.

So the reason why you should avoid trolling is just because even more shit and hatred is not what the game needs before the launch.

So, summarizing: your words and deeds show that you do not give a shit about the image and the future of the game.

Edited April 7, 2019 by toblerone

[Captain Reverse]

maybe because of bad knowing the language, I do not correctly understand the topic. But again, I see more advantages from DLC ships than minuses. A lot of time has passed, but no one answered my post: D

Do you know what I saw in the last days of the game? The British, who never leave the capital area, they took the DLC ships and went to look for pvp in the open world. Yes, they lost, but then they took endimion and agamemnon and went again.
Many Russians who sat in the maracaibo went to try PVP.
Newbies do not cry that way when they lose a ship, because they have a "fallback".
I started selling many ships of Bermuda / White Oak.

So far, I see that my assumptions are only confirmed.

Good luck to everyone on the battlefields of the Caribbean Sea. And not sections of the forum: D

[AeRoTR]

@Captain Reverse do not forget, game will be released soon, total wipes are coming. So people try to get rid of their already crafted ships, so this is a factor which increases pvp. We will see when the game is released, I hope your assumptions will be confirmed after release. That is what we all want, the NA to be successful.

[Meraun]

Just remove all 6th,5th and 4th rate permits and we are fine

[toblerone]

24 minutes ago, Meraun said:

Just remove all 6th,5th and 4th rate permits and we are fine

Fourth rates now are just aga (which needs no permit and is a good ship), indefatigable (which is under permit but is on par with aga) and inger (which is a useless ship so no one cares about the permit).

Problem is in third rates in my opinion, that are ALL under permit.

Edited April 7, 2019 by toblerone

[HachiRoku]

50 minutes ago, Captain Reverse said:

maybe because of bad knowing the language, I do not correctly understand the topic. But again, I see more advantages from DLC ships than minuses. A lot of time has passed, but no one answered my post: D

Do you know what I saw in the last days of the game? The British, who never leave the capital area, they took the DLC ships and went to look for pvp in the open world. Yes, they lost, but then they took endimion and agamemnon and went again.
Many Russians who sat in the maracaibo went to try PVP.
Newbies do not cry that way when they lose a ship, because they have a "fallback".
I started selling many ships of Bermuda / White Oak.

So far, I see that my assumptions are only confirmed.

Good luck to everyone on the battlefields of the Caribbean Sea. And not sections of the forum: D

You just made my argument, thank you.

Let me try to explain so you can understand. The GB noobs need to pay money to the developers so that sinking doesn't hurt as much. This is what P2W is supposed do. The developers have made loosing free ships ingame very punishing. If easy ships are more pvp then why are permits for crafted ships so hard to get now? It is designed to be p2w my friend and you can defend the devs all you want like I have but logic doesn't care about our opinion. 

I have made this topic and 1 other topic about the major problems DLC ships cause. Admin doesn't reply to the arguments because there is no argument against what I am saying. His comment "can someone explain the minuses of the DLC ships" is a lie. The community has be very vocal about it. So vocal about it some of them have been banned. If admin wants to we can do a livestream and debate. 

Herc DLC

Rat DLC

Something is wrong and I do not believe it is only the price of them. 

Edited April 7, 2019 by HachiRoku

[John Cavanaugh]

1 minute ago, toblerone said:

Fourth rates now are just aga (which needs no permit and is a good ship), indefatigable (which is on par with aga) and inger (which is a useless ship so no one cares about the permit).

Problem is in third rates in my opinion, that are ALL under permit.

the problem is impeded access to woods for crafting. thickness and speed are YUGELY important, and +/- 10 cm or 1kn can determine win/loss. take an Oak/Oak frigate out against a Teak/White ship, the difference is as stark as that between Teak/White and Live/White. The stopgap woods (Sabicu, Mahogany, etc) are just as rare at present due to the rare woods system precluding would-be crafters from acquiring woods from their available ports without being within certain clans. the result is that producing any comparable ship which is not paper thin is incredibly time consuming and expensive, if you even have access to those woods in the first place.

If DLC ships were redeemable in only Oak/Fir/Crew Space, it would reduce the problem to an extent, as producing non-permit ships in Oak or Fir, while still requiring a time investment, is negligible compared to producing those same ships in any of the good woods. I for one had no problem with Requin/Hercules under the former economy system - producing a Teak/White oak Surprise cost about 15k reales in total. a comparable ship with its costs covered by about 20 minutes of grinding or one quick trader brig run. obviously still an advantage for the DLC user, but ultimately an acceptable degree of such IMO. This is no longer the case. If quality crafted ships are to be rare, DLC ships must be comparable not to crafted ships but to AI shop ships.