Is there obligation for PVP server to protect PVE only veterans?

[Hethwill]

Captains,

The discussion is server agnostic

Is there obligation for PVP server to protect PVE only veterans?

no mention of specific server so keep it focused and without going overboard with your language and personal feelings.

[victor]

Another thread on the same topic by the same player (out of some like five players).

If the same five players open 10 threads, it's not 50 player asking, it's still just five!

This thing is getting old. Really.

Fact is that, if you want OS pvp against other warships (at least in the most populated PVP server), you know perfectly where you can find it (at least three spots are well know for granting good chances of OS PVP beteen warships). Another fact is that outside Spanish and Brit capital zones - at least in my server - every afternoon and evening there is plenty of OS PVP despite the safe zones!

Notwithstanding that, some people still want to play the EVEIsh role of the well know "gank catalyst" carebears QQ seeker in a game with 500 players in prime time? Well ... let me tell you that something must be wrong there. But it's not the safe zones!

 

Edited December 6, 2017 by victor

[Slim McSauce]

9 hours ago, victor said:

Another thread on the same topic by the same player (out of some like five players).

If the same five players open 10 threads, it's not 50 player asking, it's still just five!

This thing is getting old. Really.

Fact is that, if you want OS pvp against other warships (at least in the most populated PVP server), you know perfectly where you can find it (at least three spots are well know for granting good chances of OS PVP beteen warships). Another fact is that outside Spanish and Brit capital zones - at least in my server - every afternoon and evening there is plenty of OS PVP despite the safe zones!

Notwithstanding that, some people still want to play the EVEIsh role of the well know "gank catalyst" carebears QQ seeker in a game with 500 players in prime time? Well ... let me tell you that something must be wrong there. But it's not the safe zones!

This is what a lot of people get wrong. It's not about wanting more nubs to gank, nubs deserve protection, but PVErs and traders do not. Trading isn't harmless money making, its transporting war goods, and with how big safe zones are pretty much all traders/haulers are protected. Thats a huge negative on the sandbox.

[IndianaGeoff]

I agree the safe zones can be made  a bit smaller.  But you cannot effectively trade or craft without leaving them.

This game has a population problem.  If levels were up, trade goods would be even more depleted and people would be out hunting for gold.

What is missing are useful trade missions that put  you at risk.  Raids that can be started and completed in a couple hours.  Events that gather players (combat or shipwrecks).  And I think the timers for entering battles is an issue.  You can't defend your fellow nation other than sitting outside a battle for an excessive amount of time.  Concentration in port battles is an issue too.  Same names over and over.

I also think the slot grind is too much.  In my limited time, unless I find something fun quickly, I am on the grind getting my ships up and hoping for rare upgrades.

[Landsman]

On 27.11.2017 at 10:57 AM, Forbin said:

and most of us don't have the time to play on both servers....

Then choose one.

On 27.11.2017 at 10:57 AM, Forbin said:

if you want PvP, Capitals are not the good place to start your hunt, use you grey matter 

Maybe you should use your grey matter instead? The map is empty. Capitals are the only way to reliably find PvP withing a reasonable amount of time. BUT captials aren't even the only safe zones, there are zones all over the map. I would rather say this:

If you want only PvE with no risk you should hello kitty off to the PvE server but since the PvP server is PvE too now.... Naval Action OW for PvE and Naval Action Legends for PvP.

So if I want PvP I simply go to Legends... why bother with the whiney carebear losers? Why sail for hours to find some coward that is running away even in a bigger ship? At some point all OW servers will be almost exclusively PvE and a bit RvR and then carebears will finally be where they belong. 

Edited December 6, 2017 by Landsman

[Doug Maoz]

On 11/29/2017 at 9:42 AM, Slim Jimmerson said:

My point is that you're playing the inheritly "evil" faction. The biggeat reason why pirates as a nation will never work, you're always gonna be seen as public enemy #1. As long as there are pirates kicking about nationals will always band together to fight them. 

I never quite understood this thinking, even when I was playing as a brit fighting the pirates on the daily. We might as well be called 'Red Team", "Blue Team", and "Green Team", it is only the color of the flag that changes. There is literally no lore surrounding each faction, for all we know the pirates are the good guys against the evil fascists!

How much of the nationals ganging up is related to groupthink? I know the pirate flag is a scary skull, but come on...

[Landsman]

21 minutes ago, Doug Maoz said:

I never quite understood this thinking, even when I was playing as a brit fighting the pirates on the daily. We might as well be called 'Red Team", "Blue Team", and "Green Team", it is only the color of the flag that changes. There is literally no lore surrounding each faction, for all we know the pirates are the good guys against the evil fascists!

How much of the nationals ganging up is related to groupthink? I know the pirate flag is a scary skull, but come on...

Pirates are just another nation. It's sad and some people don't want to or can't realize it...

[Slim McSauce]

40 minutes ago, Doug Maoz said:

I never quite understood this thinking, even when I was playing as a brit fighting the pirates on the daily. We might as well be called 'Red Team", "Blue Team", and "Green Team", it is only the color of the flag that changes. There is literally no lore surrounding each faction, for all we know the pirates are the good guys against the evil fascists!

How much of the nationals ganging up is related to groupthink? I know the pirate flag is a scary skull, but come on...

People wanna play their country, simple as that. We don't need lore, we have history and people will choose "their" side. That same logic applies to nations at war, why fight when we have something in common? Oh look there are the criminal pirates lets get em. Its all a part of the roleplay. 

Diplomacy can be to blame, with all nations at war it kind of has the effect that no one is. It use to be somewhat of an event when nations declared war but now its just meh. The voting alliances/wars was a breeding ground for carebear nation alliances, but it could be revisited and improved. Either way the pirates are the fictional black sheep amongst real nations.

Edited December 6, 2017 by Slim Jimmerson

[Sir Texas Sir]

3 hours ago, Slim Jimmerson said:

People wanna play their country, simple as that. We don't need lore, we have history and people will choose "their" side. That same logic applies to nations at war, why fight when we have something in common? Oh look there are the criminal pirates lets get em. Its all a part of the roleplay. 

Diplomacy can be to blame, with all nations at war it kind of has the effect that no one is. It use to be somewhat of an event when nations declared war but now its just meh. The voting alliances/wars was a breeding ground for carebear nation alliances, but it could be revisited and improved. Either way the pirates are the fictional black sheep amongst real nations.

Ok well it's all part of RP, than you understand why I keep calling US a bunch of British Loyalist.  You might as well be colonist of that nation if your going to buddy buddy up with them.  To me having another nation (or big clans) what to do is even more evil than a buch of rogues and thieves.  I mean if Pirates where zerging the server like a Mongal Horbe than I would understand the mind set of nations joining together to stop the evil threat, but did you know since pre-wipe we made sure we where attacked first before attacking. I'll use US as an example.  US attacked Islma for the first Official Player vs Player port battle after wipe.  That is strike one.   No attack back from the pirates all we did was defended and went back to making our little buffer around Mort.  Sever days later (maybe a week or two)  we get an unsuccessful attack on Nassau (we crushed the grinding fleet).  Nothing big as I expected Nassua to be a PvP/RvR hot zone.  Than Lionshaft pulls his great trick of getting the new guys (Appalo streamer group) to attack West End saying that it was agreed upon with the pirates (it never was).  We show up and defend that, crushing all the players that showed up for it.   Well that is Strike two so what we do?   We hit Savanna right in the heart of US territory, if they want to keep attacking us we will put a black dot next to there capital.  We did exactly that.   Defended it and no other aggression against ports.  We wait until two more ports are attacked and successfully defended....since folks where care bearing it up at Bermuda we picked our next target (this was more cause of the failed tripple flip that was attemped  I think @Christendom said something like, "We where suppose to flip three ports, but lost two instead."  Cause I think that was the results of why we took SLM in response to that attack.

It's not like we took any key econ ports. We picked Savanna cause it left your coal port still open to you and that was when there was very few coal ports.  Many guys wanted to take all your 1st rate ports and we said no, it's not good for the game to zerg and do that to nations.  Remember now we only defended and only attacked after being attacked twice each time from US.  So in theory US is the big bad nastie guy cause they threw the first stone and attacked us.  So why aren't they more evil than pirates?  We only acted on defense.

The problem is ya'll make up this fictional bad guy to keep from doing what you really should be doing.  Attacking other nations. Hell look at the leader board right now, every notice GB all ways tends to be on top with a bunch of ports.  Ever notice they take up most of the gulf and push around US?   I would be more worry about them than pirates.  Yes pirates and US should be fighting over the Bahamas as that is boarders between the two, but US and GB and other nations should be fighting each other too.  Every time we have multi nations fighting each other our serve pop actually goes up cause it gives folks something to do.  Every time we have the majority of the server fighting one faction our server pop goes down.  The two biggest nations should not be in allaince with each othe, they should be fighting each other.  They can take in a small nation and protect them, but they should be doing super big allaince of 70% of the server population not fighting any one. 

Pirates tend to fight every one, which we should, we should be the thorn in every one side, not just one nation.  The guys that you got to keep an eye on cause you never know when they will be hiding behind that island or around the corner, but we shouldn't be the only goal of a nation to fight.

Back on topic though, yes we should be defending our majority of the players even if they are PvE/Carebears and what not.  If you don't help each other out than folks stop playing and the game gets very boring.

[IndianaGeoff]

5 hours ago, Landsman said:

Then choose one.

Maybe you should use your grey matter instead? The map is empty. Capitals are the only way to reliably find PvP withing a reasonable amount of time. BUT captials aren't even the only safe zones, there are zones all over the map. I would rather say this:

If you want only PvE with no risk you should hello kitty off to the PvE server but since the PvP server is PvE too now.... Naval Action OW for PvE and Naval Action Legends for PvP.

So if I want PvP I simply go to Legends... why bother with the whiney carebear losers? Why sail for hours to find some coward that is running away even in a bigger ship? At some point all OW servers will be almost exclusively PvE and a bit RvR and then carebears will finally be where they belong. 

You solution to having too few players to have good PvP is to have even fewer players on the server. Gotcha.

[IndianaGeoff]

Sir Texas Sir, mostly wrong. Just wrong.

[Landsman]

11 minutes ago, IndianaGeoff said:

You solution to having too few players to have good PvP is to have even fewer players on the server. Gotcha.

Haha, you forget one thing tho... Only PvE players leave because of PvP and thus PvE players are useless for PvP players. Why would I enjoy fighting some bad players that can only sink AI? Where is the challenge, the competition and the fun? Also the fact that PvE players always try to avoid or run from PvP alone makes them worthless on the PvP server.

The truth is capitals used to be the hot spots for PvP where PvP players could find a fight fast and there is no reason for those safe zones affecting max rank players at all... the map is so big that safe zones are completely unnecessary for experienced players. There are so many quiet corners on the map where people can do missions or trade with minimum risk.

Also did you notice player numbers didn't go up even with safe zones? The only thing that changed is that we have even more lazy useless carebears that only sit in the safe zones whenever they play... and the sad irony of it is that they could go anywhere on the map, because almost all serious PvP players had enough of this bullshit and gave up on the OW game anyways...

Edited December 7, 2017 by Landsman

[IndianaGeoff]

It's a good thing the Devs have a more nuanced view of the game than you.

[Landsman]

23 minutes ago, IndianaGeoff said:

It's a good thing the Devs have a more nuanced view of the game than you.

Yeah, current player numbers reflect that very well... you got any more of those solid arguments?

[IndianaGeoff]

57 minutes ago, Landsman said:

Yeah, current player numbers reflect that very well... you got any more of those solid arguments?

Given that I have put them in this thread already and in previous threads... I have zero expectation that you will read them and discuss them.

[Landsman]

34 minutes ago, IndianaGeoff said:

Given that I have put them in this thread already and in previous threads... I have zero expectation that you will read them and discuss them.

Fair enough but yeah I really can't be arsed... For one, because I gave up on the OW game and don't see much coming out of discussions around it at all ( so why bother ) and also because we see with the new factions that we really don't need safe zones. Take the prussians for example. They are absolute trash tier and completely suck wet donkey balls at PvP. At one point mocalb and dron farmed their entire Fleet of frigates and SOLs with nothing but 2 LGV refits ( 90 pd broadside ). Did they moan? Yes, of course they did, they are carebears and it was PvP. But did they quit? No. Because it is the PvP server and ships are dirt cheap with the endless gold raining from the sky and drowning everyone ( and with combined effort in clans even cheaper / faster). Better yet, they might have learned a thing or two from those fights - something a carebear sitting in green zone 24/7 can not hope for. Even if a experienced player gets ganked, he can just replace the ship instantly. Why are people acting like losing a ship matters in the current version of the game?

The only players that are really in need of those zones are new players and they don't need several huge ones but a singly one around the capital is enough. And that up to Flag Captain or Rear Admiral only. Gold is more than easy to come by ( the game is practically throwing it at you, if you know what you're doing ) and there are plenty of quiet spots on the map to do PvE.

What are the chances for some gank squad hitting you while doing PvE in the Golf of Mexico? And even if it happens, as long as you shoot back at least you get bonus xp for your slots. Then you build or buy the next ship. No problem at all. 

But because of all the whiners and lazy carebears we have those day care comfort zones that are basically small PvE servers on the PvP server. So with 90% of players hiding in it and economy not mattering at all since on top of the ridiculous amounts of gold that get thrown at you, you can also build ships in the greenzone completely safe, what is the point of playing OW for the PvP? You'll mostly meet the same guys and have set up matches and PBs and not really the hunting in OW. Might aswell play Legends and let the carebears have their 3 PvE servers.

 

 

Edited December 7, 2017 by Landsman

[Slim McSauce]

Its really not even that they're hiding it, safe zones just take up 30% of the the ports we use. If you're within 250,000" of your capital your safe, not because the capital itself, but because the regional capitals that all stack around it and create this giant no go bubble for PVP.

Either get rid of these giant bubbles, or make it so only ranks under flag captain can use the reinforcements.
Or better yet add a newb nation like we added hardcore nations and make their entire area a PVP safezone, don't cut into the already limited OW PVP.
A single safezone around the nation capital, if you can't defend that then your nation is trash and needs to git gud.
 

[Forbin]

17 hours ago, Landsman said:

Maybe you should use your grey matter instead? The map is empty. Capitals are the only way to reliably find PvP withing a reasonable amount of time. BUT captials aren't even the only safe zones, there are zones all over the map. I would rather say this:

If you want only PvE with no risk you should hello kitty off to the PvE server but since the PvP server is PvE too now.... Naval Action OW for PvE and Naval Action Legends for PvP.

So if I want PvP I simply go to Legends... why bother with the whiney carebear losers? Why sail for hours to find some coward that is running away even in a bigger ship? At some point all OW servers will be almost exclusively PvE and a bit RvR and then carebears will finally be where they belong. 

Cool, some more insults....and you wonder why people leave ?

[fox2run]

Thought that devs long time ago had a solution on this problem:

PvP server

PvE server

Only problem is that PvP server has been utterly ruined by PvE-guys. Make a new PvP sever with easy access to cheap warships and plenty of combat. It may even be popular (uh oh).

[LeBoiteux]

45 minutes ago, fox2run said:

Make a new PvP sever with easy access to cheap warships and plenty of combat. It may even be popular (uh oh).

And call it NAL ?

[fox2run]

1 minute ago, LeBoiteux said:

And call it NAL ?

No - an OW server with fun in it... Oh - been there done that btw...

[IndianaGeoff]

If you want unsullied PvP, you have a game.  If you want a mix of fighting, crafting, leveling and hanging with buds, the current servers are for you.

Hard mode drove off casuals and player numbers crashed.  NAL is bleeding off full time PvP players.

Can we get the casuals back?  Maybe some.  But the "get on, fight an hour or so and go" casuals will go for NAL.

[Preechur Blackheart]

Now that I am playing Legends as well, I am wondering why that same idea could not be integrated into NA itself. Everyone who is developing an economy, rank and ships could have a choice: go into a battle arena and have PvP on demand without fear of loss of ship and without the timesink of sailing and searching for a battle, or dare to fight in the OW where losing to a foes means you lose your ship as well. Best of both worlds?

[Landsman]

6 hours ago, Forbin said:

Cool, some more insults....and you wonder why people leave ?

Haha, I just love how you marked the first line and complained about it as insult, when it was YOU who brought it up.... that cracked me up real good.

[fox2run]

3 hours ago, Preechur Blackheart said:

Now that I am playing Legends as well, I am wondering why that same idea could not be integrated into NA itself. Everyone who is developing an economy, rank and ships could have a choice: go into a battle arena and have PvP on demand without fear of loss of ship and without the timesink of sailing and searching for a battle, or dare to fight in the OW where losing to a foes means you lose your ship as well. Best of both worlds?

The thing is... it was so a few month after release.. but then it gave too much action and players complained... well.... now they complain again, I suppose...