Alternatives to the removal of endresult screen

[Liq]

7 hours ago, Bach said:

So me and my Pirate buddies decide to spread some love in Swedish home waters.  We would normally have to set up in the travel route between hat island and Gustavia to avoid Swedish revenge fleets.  But we got this nifty new teleport to safety mechanic. So we just sail a speed rigged gank fleet straight into Swedish waters just outside the green ring.

This way of thinking and approaching the game forced the devs to remove the result screen.

[Cmdr RideZ]

The issue in the end is probably that we cannot react when we are spawned back to OW.

If we were in OW, and a revenge fleet would be sailing towards us, we would react and sail away.

Probably the most realistic way to handle this would be to spawn players to empty location.  This would simulate "sailaway".

[Challenge]

Just make it so you can't tag or be tagged for some length of time after leaving a battle. No invisibility spell, no TP -- just can't be tagged long enough to make a break for it.

[Liq]

2 minutes ago, Challenge said:

Just make it so you can't tag or be tagged for some length of time after leaving a battle. No invisibility spell, no TP -- just can't be tagged long enough to make a break for it.

"to make a break for it" as in 2 minutes, so you could log off?

The revenge fleet outside could simply spread out (as explained in the original post) so an invulnerability timer of 1 minute ish will not obtain anything.

A big fleet consisting of mainly tanks having a lot of firepower, which would usually never be able to catch anything in the open world, will just need a few small ships, like 1-2 rattlesnakes, to trap their prey in a battle, which then lets the main fleet move to the battle (since OW speed is way higher than speeds in instances) and wait for their prey. This is poor gameplay design in my opinion. If you outran something in the open world, you should not be forced back to it where you are being awaited on.

[Hethwill]

Will be used by "power gamers" to hide a fleet in logoff state, which then will be able to enter battles that are open for X time yadda yadda yadda...

[Slamz]

19 minutes ago, The Red Duke said:

Will be used by "power gamers" to hide a fleet in logoff state, which then will be able to enter battles that are open for X time yadda yadda yadda...

I think that, at least, has already been handled. You would log in and the timer would prevent you from joining any battles.

[Farrago]

I would prefer something like a "No Attack (and can't be attacked)" for 130 sec: 10 sec to look around and make your decision about staying in the game 120 sec for the logout timer.

You should also be able to sit in battle instance for some minutes because we all have real life physical needs.

Alternatively, the donut shaped spawn area sounds a little complicated for programming. How about just a random, not on land spot within the grid square?

Edited May 2, 2017 by Farrago

[Liq]

2 minutes ago, Farrago said:

I would prefer something like a "No Attack (and can't be attacked)" for 130 sec: 10 sec to look around and make your decision about staying in the game 120 sec for the logout timer.

You should also be able to sit in battle instance for some minutes because we all have real life physical needs.

Sounds good to me, but I think it is also needed to standardize and tweak the signaling perk, so that the defending side can get ships in the battle to help out, because, lets face it: Those silly ganks such as 5 players taking on 1 player right outside a nations capital without them being able to do something need to stop.

[Serk]

4 hours ago, rediii said:

Everything is better than a possible endless cycle of battles until 1 of the 2 sides has no RL time anymore after 7 hours of repeating battles.

Hence the introduction of the  "TP to closest friendly port feature". It is a bit sad to debate this all over again, to be honest.

If you find yourself in foreign water, the tp would send you to a free town as the closest friendly town, meaning you would still have to sail your prize back to your line if you wish to keep them. Remember, no more outposts are allowed in FT.

Edited May 2, 2017 by Serk

[Wesreidau]

TP to nearest friendly port remains the solution to these problems and its removal is foolish. They had fixed battlescreen camping and then proceeded to bring it back with the same pitiful "invisibility" gimmick that failed us a year ago.

1. When the battle is over, start a five minute timer but continue to sail the ships.

2. Ships can conduct repairs, board and loot, and do whatever during those five minutes. Players can get a beer.

3. At the end of that five minute timer, captains are teleported to a friendly port. Players can go to dinner.

4. At any time before five minutes, captains can exit to the open world. Players can go back to playing.

5. When returning to the open world, captains are invisible so they can get their sails up and a course selected. Players no longer have a reason to sit and camp longer than five minutes.

The only exception? if you got into a battle with exclusively AI, mission over otherwise, there's no teleport option. Teleporting to friendly ports is only for PvP engagements. If you tag an enemy AI fleet, and enemy players join to fight you, you can teleport. 

[Duncan McFail]

On 5/1/2017 at 0:44 PM, Liquicity said:

1) Standardize Signaling Perk (and / or tweak it)
The easiest fix to this issue would be to standardize the Signaling perk. Personally, I've always thought of Signaling with its current mechanics to be the best RoE.
This would mean that any battles where the attacking side has more BR than the side being attacked are open to join for the defenders. Maybe even tweak it so that the side being attacked gets a bonus of 15-20% additional BR that can join the battle. I'm a strong believer that OW fights should not be fair. If you're in enemy territory you're asking for them to come out and gank you regardless if you just had a fair fight or not. Signaling just reinforces balance when there should be no balance in the OW. I do support perma open battles which could work in either sides favor. But I do believe reinforcements should start farther from the battle directly dependent on how late they entered. More than 5 minutes and they might not fire off a cannon before their buddy is sunk.

2) Endresultscreen depending on the battle
Another suggestion is to allow a battle result screen if the attacking side has less or equal BR than their targets. This should prevent any major ganking in big numbers in hostile waters. However, this would still not fix the situation for the case I posted above (4 3rd rates with their two rattlesnakes attacking a connie). Again it favors the defender. No one wants to sit outside waiting for some guy that came into your waters, killed one of your mates, and you wait on him to come out like a chump.

3) Allow a teleport after the 3rd consecutive battle
A ship escaping a battle would get kicked back to open world just to find the next targets to deal with. This could happen over and over again, as happened to @Jeheil before (explained here). He got pulled into combat 6 times in a row, and he felt like being griefed, as he knew it was just wasting time. Maybe, after a certain amount of escaping in battle and having proved to having escaped, there should be a possibility to also escape from any danger from the Open World, as in a teleport back to port.
After all, this is a game, and at some point Life has a few words to say (you know, the world outside of videogames.. friends and all that). Wasting hours where nothing is being achieved by anyone is not doing any good. Griefing is a problem. I would not agree a teleport is the answer. A timer that would restrict the attacker from tagging you multiple times in a row by getting exponentially bigger each time. Or maybe a 3rd time and you have an option to log out.

4) Invisibility / Invulnerability timer (suggested by @Powderhorn below)
Add an invisibility and/or invulnerability timer after a battle so players are given a chance to escape from a revenge fleet. They could still spread out though. This could be cool. The one minute timer might work pretty well. They can spread out but there's always a way through with that much time. With a net that wide there's a lot of room to ditch them. If you head to one ship you're only likely to get a few in and others would have to reinforce. Pick a slow target and you'll be able to leave them in the dust. Get away partially and attack an AI. Enter a mission or epic event in the area. Swap over to a trader in fleet after battle and enter an enemy port with smuggler flag. I picture it like a Benny Hill episode with 8 guys trying to catch one.

5) Embed tow function to battle instance (suggested by @The Red Duke below)
Embed the tow-to-nearest-port feature to the battle instance, so you could teleport to port from battle once every 3 hours. Saves Port Battle fleets and good for calling it a night in general. Then the trader you want to catch will not leave port until that cool down is up. Players won't want to sit outside someone's battle for 15 minutes to see if maybe they tp'd or maybe not. Even with a cool down it's pretty exploitable to cut down travel time or avoid getting near the enemy riddled port you want to get into. I like the rush you get when exiting battle not knowing what's out there. Keeps the game interesting. Worst comes to worse you lose a ship.

 

[Sureshot]

This needs to come back, we are back in 2015 all over again. Alternative, only works when you do a PvP tag and a 30 minute cool down so you can't exploit it with AI. 

Invisibly never works, enemy knows you are going to sail down wind so they end up right beside you anyway. Repeat tagging makes no sense, you have escaped the battle but you need to escape it again. Major greifing is back.

Also you would be able to see the revenge fleet approaching and then run, that isn't that case. 2 separate instances. 

Revenge fleets need to be addressed, we are back to where we were before and it's not very fun. Especially with the new prices, which I'm totally fine with, I love it. I just don't understand how it's going to work with the current revenge fleets. 

Edited May 31, 2017 by SeaHyena

[Liq]

Admin some time ago : You shouldnt have to escape twice

Admin now : let's bring back revenge fleets

Oh and also 5 min timer while we're at it

:'D 

Edited May 31, 2017 by Liquicity

[Sureshot]

We already know how bad revenge fleets are for the game, they made so many people quit. And now with the high cost of crafting and repairs, how do you expect that to go over well with the players?

I thought finally we had a fix for the dreaded revenge fleets, but because a few people exploited it with AI now we are back to those same people using revenge fleets and greifing players. We badly need a fix for this. Being forced into a revenge gank for going out and looking for PvP is a good way to discourage players and those who have come back to give NA a second chance. 

Edited May 31, 2017 by SeaHyena

[Sureshot]

On 5/31/2017 at 7:35 PM, rediii said:

roamed in front of different capitals yet and didnt loose a ship.

 

i actually like the current system, if you tag someone in front of a capital expect a fleet waiting for you. dont attack in front of capitals then

You think it's okay to grief players by tagging them over? 

And by the way, this doesn't just need to be by a capital. I've played since the day OW was released and that is a fact because all I do is PvP. 

Want an example? Here I'll give you one.

I was outnumbered to begin with I had 5 frigates attack my Santa Cecilia, when I got out guess what? 5 More waiting for me right on my battle location. That wasn't even in enemy territory, it was in mine. If escaped, why do I now need to deal with the 5 frigates I escaped from + 5 more? 

 

Edited June 12, 2017 by SeaHyena

[akd]

So let me get this straight:

-if I sail into enemy waters I deserve shit gameplay

-but if I sail in friendly waters I also probably get shit gameplay (because above applies to enemies)

-so I guess we are really supposed to just sail out into the deep blue Atlantic for the "good" PvP?

[Sureshot]

Here's another example.

I Had another nice fight lynx and frigate vs my surprise, this was pre patch before battle screen teleport. But when I got out I had 4 more frigates + a cutter surrounding my battle waiting for me. And like AKD said, we somehow deserve it? 

And yes I escaped because I was close to port and just manged to escape. 

Edited June 9, 2017 by SeaHyena

[sveno]

As you have been Swede, you know how close our country is working together (ie. one TS, the coastguard initiative).
You moved from US to Denmark because Sweden got so many active players, understand that it is a different environment.

Now, tagging our guys close to our capital is a bad idea, you will trigger more than you can handle.
I think this is less a issue with game mechanics, but more with your aim to seek fights in the wrong place.

Be sure, nobody want to "grief" you, we just do what is needed to keep our core save.

I understand that you want to play the game as you always did, maybe you just try it in the worst place (next to Gustavia).
Actually, we did hunt around the Pirates capital and never had any issue, thanks to the invisibility feature.

However; i would welcome a 2 minute timer.
 

[Sureshot]

It can be used in more ways than just a revenge fleet.

A speed ship tags you and then runs away and waits for the rest of the fleet to catch up then tag again. You have no chance of getting away because they surround your battle. Escape once sure, but twice? Nah..

A large fleet hides behind an island or off the horizon. Then you get dragged into battle by a speed ship that has no intention to fight and he runs and escapes. Then outside is a large fleet surrounding you.

Good battle close to even BR, enemy throws a few cannonballs to keep you tagged at range for about 5-10 minutes and then you realize they actually had no intention to fight and they run. Little did you know that when you get out of battle a whole fleet would be surrounding you outside without you even knowing. 

 

 

Edited June 9, 2017 by SeaHyena

[Sureshot]

On 5/31/2017 at 8:36 PM, rediii said:

i live at la tortue, killed some guys in mortimer town, KPR, la habana port au prince and north of christiansted. No problem. Got chased by pirates to cayo romano but that's live

Well you should at least have an option to log off after being tagged once, don't you agree? 

Edited June 9, 2017 by SeaHyena

[sveno]

Trust me that we do a lot of PvP in small groups in different areas of the map, also after the wipe.
I am a veteran PvPer myself, think you know that and i do not experience the issues like you do.

That enemies use fast ships to break your movement is not an exploit but a tactic.
With the 15 minute timer you have to time your escape and the two minute invisibility, NA has the tools to get free from that.

You cannot poke a hornets nest and not expect getting stung.

With all due respect,
looking at your wording and the knowledge where you actually pull off your fights: your view might be skewed here.

 

[Sureshot]

How is it not abusing speed mechanics? Tagging enemy on open world with a fast ship then letting them out of battle so the slower ships can catch up.

Edited June 13, 2017 by SeaHyena

[Sureshot]

On 5/31/2017 at 8:48 PM, rediii said:

so... im forced to go to open world and exploit what exactly?

Read my post at the top of the page. 

 

 

Edited June 13, 2017 by SeaHyena

[Liq]

9 minutes ago, sveno said:

That enemies use fast ships to break your movement is not an exploit but a tactic

Tactic of abusing ow speed buff compared to battle speed? So any big ships can easily catch up without any issues?

Sry but thats just bs

[Sureshot]

On 5/31/2017 at 8:49 PM, Liquicity said:

Tactic of abusing ow speed buff compared to battle speed? So any big ships can easily catch up without any issues?

Sry but thats just bs

Yeah, I don't think most people see it that way, which confuses the hell out of me. 

Edited June 9, 2017 by SeaHyena