Pierre de la Rocha Posted February 2, 2017 Share Posted February 2, 2017 I am new to Naval Action, but I have already noticed the prevalence of gank squads. I played Pirates of the Burning Sea and ganking basically killed that game. Ganking kills low level players and encourages them to quit. The emphasis must be on implementing good battle tactics and strategy, not sheer numbers. Members from small nations will quit the game. There must be some way or some system to mitigate gank squads. Perhaps penalize ganking, make the rewards low. Or limit ganks to a force multiplier of say 150% of the person being ganked (3v1). Or ganking couple be limited to 1 gank per 24 hours. Perhaps a system could be put in place where the person being ganked could choose how many ships can enter the battle against them, or give ganked players massive AI fleets if numbers exceed 2v1. The purpose is not to prevent ganking, but to mitigate it because it is a sheer game killing mechanic. I loved ganking in pirates of the burning sea, don't get me wrong, but something has to be done to make it more fair for small nations and low level players. Giving players that were getting ganked the option to include AI ships would make battles more fair and more fun. I dont want to see this game fail, but I see some of the same issues in this game that existed in pirates of the burning sea. Remember that players will always take advantage of a system as much as possible, that is why I want to help create a game that can be more fun for more people. Maybe if players that get ganked, and choose an AI fleet to protect them, will receive a tax penalty or limit on the number of times they can use an AI fleet within 24hrs. I am am sure there are better ideas out there than mine, but I only write this because I see this following the same path as PotBS. Hopefully some good system can be put in place to make this game playable for new players, small nations, and low level players. Cheers! (P.S. I have never been ganked in this game, I just see the chat rage and forum posts about it) 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balsafer Posted February 2, 2017 Share Posted February 2, 2017 They should reward the person that is outnumbered say 3-1 or 5-1 more but idk how that will get implemented 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
monk33y Posted February 2, 2017 Share Posted February 2, 2017 (edited) Are you getting confused between player and AI fleets??? Pvp is dead, unless you sail through the middle of a pvp event area? Where we you playing etc? Lmao you have not even been ganked. What you are reading in nation and global chat is from morrons who take there 1St rate out alone to do pve missions and get hit by 3 or 4 smaller ships. Rookie zone is 1v1 only (stay in it until you have the basics) Edited February 2, 2017 by monk33y 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Angus McGregor Posted February 2, 2017 Share Posted February 2, 2017 Maybe the Bahamas (new player area)? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
monk33y Posted February 2, 2017 Share Posted February 2, 2017 Shhh otto! Remember this game tries to let everyone (apart from exploity Danes) be winners!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yar Matey Posted February 2, 2017 Share Posted February 2, 2017 The Devs put forts and towers all over the place and large patrolling AI fleets. Learn to use them to your advantage. I have only been successfully ganked once in my home waters since the ROE update and mostly because I was not paying attention. 7 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vernon Merrill Posted February 2, 2017 Share Posted February 2, 2017 40 minutes ago, Borch said: Ganking topic is the most popular thing in every MMO game. People play the game with the attitude that they cant ever loose anything and if they do, its because the devs didnt prevented that somehow. At some point even hardcore pvp players feel that they are being ganked by revenge fleet or whatever. The whine starts from both casuals and hardcore players. Devs feels obliged to change the game to cater both in fact destroying everything. Come on people, in order to enjoy everything (not only games) you need to understand that sometimes you need to loose. Give before you get and learn every time both of those cases happens to you. This is the most on-point reply I have seen in some time... Everyone needs to realize that in order for someone to "win", someone else has to actually "lose".... It sucks, I get it... I usually rage log-off for 30 mins and then I'm fine. Its only pixels, people. And most of the time you have a few more carbon-copies of what you just lost. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akd Posted February 2, 2017 Share Posted February 2, 2017 It is pretty difficult to get ganked under current ROE if you pay attention and take action as soon as an enemy is spotted. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Angus McGregor Posted February 4, 2017 Share Posted February 4, 2017 On 2/2/2017 at 5:25 AM, Otto Kohl said: There is no way to prevent stupidity. If you sail alone in slow ship you are stupid and therfore you deserve to be sunk. Nice response to a person new to Naval Action ass. I have you on my ignore list but saw you responding to this newbie and was stupid enough to think you may have been offering friendly advice. Nope - you just conformed my opinion of you in spades. Don't bother responding, you remain on my ignore list and I won't bother to check anymore to see if you've said anything I might have the slightest interest in. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Koltes Posted February 4, 2017 Share Posted February 4, 2017 On 2/2/2017 at 1:02 PM, Pierre de la Rocha said: I am new to Naval Action, but I have already noticed the prevalence of gank squads. I played Pirates of the Burning Sea and ganking basically killed that game. Ganking kills low level players and encourages them to quit. The emphasis must be on implementing good battle tactics and strategy, not sheer numbers. Members from small nations will quit the game. There must be some way or some system to mitigate gank squads. Perhaps penalize ganking, make the rewards low. Or limit ganks to a force multiplier of say 150% of the person being ganked (3v1). Or ganking couple be limited to 1 gank per 24 hours. Perhaps a system could be put in place where the person being ganked could choose how many ships can enter the battle against them, or give ganked players massive AI fleets if numbers exceed 2v1. The purpose is not to prevent ganking, but to mitigate it because it is a sheer game killing mechanic. I loved ganking in pirates of the burning sea, don't get me wrong, but something has to be done to make it more fair for small nations and low level players. Giving players that were getting ganked the option to include AI ships would make battles more fair and more fun. I dont want to see this game fail, but I see some of the same issues in this game that existed in pirates of the burning sea. Remember that players will always take advantage of a system as much as possible, that is why I want to help create a game that can be more fun for more people. Maybe if players that get ganked, and choose an AI fleet to protect them, will receive a tax penalty or limit on the number of times they can use an AI fleet within 24hrs. I am am sure there are better ideas out there than mine, but I only write this because I see this following the same path as PotBS. Hopefully some good system can be put in place to make this game playable for new players, small nations, and low level players. Cheers! (P.S. I have never been ganked in this game, I just see the chat rage and forum posts about it) Im trying to hear your ideas rather than the actual words. You are new, you dont know the game. You being ganked. It pisses you off and you give up on the game. You want game to sort it for you. I get that. Consider the following Any mechanic that would force, encourage, push (gently or forcefully) will have another negative effect on PVP (not all are newbs mate). Better solution to your problem would be a game mechanic that encourages team work, organised help from your nation or friends or something along those lines rather than enforcing ROE or messing with anything that has something to do with engagements. Also you need to undersrand the game more. Learn that any fore-to-aft ships of any quality or built will outrun any square rigged ships when close hauling. Learn your point of sails mate. Start early and soon you will know all ships and will be able to tell which POS your ship will outrun the enemy ship. Remember if you running you are in control which POS you going. Good luck Sail dangerously captain 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
monk33y Posted February 4, 2017 Share Posted February 4, 2017 If you read the authors post he says he's never actually been ganked! He is just going off the info from nation and global chat! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fox2run Posted February 5, 2017 Share Posted February 5, 2017 ROE is closing too fast, No point of taken on a fight you will loose anyway. With longer ROE then reinforcements can make it. You will fight to the end or to the help arrives! Change ROE! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pierre de la Rocha Posted February 6, 2017 Author Share Posted February 6, 2017 I wrote this entire post to try to bring some of the ideas over from another similar game that faced similar issues. Granted PotBS had many flaws, mainly issues between the 5 separate classes, 3 for Nations, 2 for Pirates, that made the game constantly change and turn into a nerf war. I want to see a game that has a good player base and can attract a lot of new players (the game is new and still in alpha). I know a lot of the opinion just seems to be either take it or leave it, but I think some subtle changes can greatly help the game. I love PvP, I want to see PvP as the real "end game" because I feel like PvP has the most room for improvement/teamwork/tactics/practice ect. I brought up ganking because I noticed quite a few high level players sailing around the Bahamas in Privateers ganking low level players. I for one don't care if I get ganked in a pickle or cutter or whatever. I know those are not end game ships and losing them is irrelevant. But players that are not familiar with this style of game will see it as being too hard or having far too sharp of a learning curve. I was by no means a noob to this type of game. Once I saw high level pirates in privateers sailing around the Bahamas I knew to get my ass out of dodge. But I don't only want this game geared toward people who have years of experience playing ship based MMO's because I know those players are few. I want to see this game have a smoother learning curve so that new players to the game can avoid being taken advantage of until they are a high enough level to know what is going on. I watched Pirates of the Burning Sea go down the drain and was sad to see it go. I loved the PvP in that game. The 6v6 PvP battles over there were some of the most fun I have ever had in a game. But if high level players cannot find meaningful PvP battles to engage in then they will default to the only things they can do. That is why I think adding corrective suggestions from what we learn in game is key. I could see this game being very fun. If the UI was better, it cost $20 instead of $40, and it had a good tutorial built into the game. I think the ship versus ship combat is great. I also think going to 3-4 nations would be a good idea. While I enjoy having small nations in the game, it just requires such a high level of coordination for a small nation to compete with larger ones. Also having any kind of Pirate class, or national class perks, will inadvertently break the game in the long run. That ends up in an endless spiral of whining about class advantage. And the screening system for port battles seems to be pretty bad right now. A cutter can tag 5 ships to stop them from entering a port battle which just seems silly. Hopefully we can find more ways to make this game realistic and fun. I love a challenging game with a high learning curve. But I also want to see the game be fairly welcoming to new players that are getting used to the game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gimpy117 Posted February 9, 2017 Share Posted February 9, 2017 yeah, you just have to learn to aviod the gank I come from EvE and let me tell you, I am ABSOLUTELY PARANOID about ganking. you have to watch out and be smart about what ship you use. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sir Texas Sir Posted February 9, 2017 Share Posted February 9, 2017 On 2/6/2017 at 2:58 AM, Pierre de la Rocha said: I brought up ganking because I noticed quite a few high level players sailing around the Bahamas in Privateers ganking low level players. I for one don't care if I get ganked in a pickle or cutter or whatever. First of that is not ganking it's call baby seal clubbing and if they are using like ships it's not even that. Baby Seal clubbing would be more they camp the newbies capital and killed all the basic cutters that come out. For the most part if I see a low level in a basic cutter I ignore them uless they attack me. I see a Rear Admiral in a basic cutter I'm going to capture his ship cause he prob running notes or something. A 2 vs 3 or 1 vs 2 is not a gank either. Yes your out number by 1 ship. I have been in a fight where it was 2 vs 6 ships and I sanked all 6 ships. Was I ganked? Yah since they had over twice the numbers. Do I complain? No cause skilled beat over lack of it and numbers. Hell I thought I was a gonner at the start of the fight, but I soon found that many folks that hunt in packs tend to lack skill or even will to fight. You start to sink them they run like cockroaches when the light is turned on. You don't back down they back off. As some have said it's a risk you take in this game. You don't want to be ganked than go play on PvE. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fox2run Posted February 9, 2017 Share Posted February 9, 2017 The only option is to prolong the length of battle timers. In this way reinforcements are optional and few pirates would dare to hunt in front of enemy capitals. It gives players so much more to do. Instant battle timers only help gankers. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TommyShelby Posted February 9, 2017 Share Posted February 9, 2017 29 minutes ago, fox2run said: The only option is to prolong the length of battle timers. In this way reinforcements are optional and few pirates would dare to hunt in front of enemy capitals. It gives players so much more to do. Instant battle timers only help gankers. Got any arguments? I'd be very interested in reading them! I got a ton of counter arguments but ya know, i already posted those like 20 times in response to your other posts. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hethwill Posted February 9, 2017 Share Posted February 9, 2017 "...That summer, the Prince evaded no fewer than seventeen British warships that chased and tried to capture the swift American privateer." "...a squadron of three British frigates finally captured the Prince..." [ Smithsonian Institute of American History - On the Water ] 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fox2run Posted February 9, 2017 Share Posted February 9, 2017 (edited) 10 hours ago, TommyShelby said: Got any arguments? I'd be very interested in reading them! I got a ton of counter arguments but ya know, i already posted those like 20 times in response to your other posts. As you wish. 1) More action aviable. If, say, the battle timer is 10 min. (example) instead of zero we would have longer openings for PvP combat. A simple question of math. More swords open: more possible PvP. You sail out in OW, see a sword, rush to combat. Easy, simple, fun. No space rocket science in that. 2) No big hiding fleets anymore. After the time out of the after battle screen (5 min) you cannot hide a space-warping megafleet out of sight, that certainly drops in. Not possible. This was the top-argument against longer battle timers. This option has been nullified, but we havent tried this in combination with longer timers. Lets try it out. 3) Possible Anti-gank. Longer joining timers is THE ONLY option for a ganked guy to have some hope of relief. Otherwise its just gg. Once you have been caught outside your capital or in home waters theres is only surrender left. Even if this happens in front of your friends. The ecitement of reinforcing a battle that can go either way makes the game very good. I remember battles going back and forth in last minute. Super fun! But of course not for the single pirate-type that certainly is checked by a naval fleet. 4) Living nations. At the times we had battles in OW open for longer durations, we had a living national chat when players got intercepted and cried for help. This made the nations organise defence and anti-gank-attack groups. Casual players without TS had much better options for feeling themselves a member of a PvP-community. It was very great and you felt you where a part of a nation where you could help the traders against them pirate scums! Again: fun and exciting. 5) Natural national boundaries and home waters. Imagine an invicible line 10 min out to sea. If you pass this line in a 10 min OW joning time-world, you where out at open sea WITH NO POSSIBLE HELP. If you where intercepted here. It was just too bad. This makes the sailing experience varied and exciting. I remember the adrenaline you had when you where alone on open sea away from your nation. Anything could happen to you. Hethwill could be on your tail and nothing you could do! No optinal reinforcements. Now you dont have this difference. I could sail out from my capital and get cought right in front of the harbour almost and no one can help me out. This is frustrating and I dont feel the excitement going out on open sea alone! Pirates are ok but they need to be in remote places and not in front of capitals. This is historic btw. 6) Large battles for everyone. If you like large battles they are very hard to get. You need access to TS, a clan and need to have some hours for sailing before the Port Battle happens. Its not everyone that has this option. With longer joining timers it is possible to have large battles developing over time. A small skirmish could end up in a 25 vs 25 Trafalgar! (And if the single guy hates this - he can lure himself out at the backdoor and escape the battle. No problem for the quick pirate in a reno. 7) Longer timers and no BR limits makes the game true sandbox. Longer timers makes the game much more open. All kind of situations can happen at sea. Its not just organised players that run in fast 4 man groups that can have their prey but other kind of battles can develop. This makes the game varied and therefore much, much better. You can have 4 vs 4, 10 vs 1, 25 vs 25, 7 vs 3 - whatever. You can also end up in battles with many different types of ships. A cutter tries to help a victory admiral versus some pirate surprises! Variation will be big and thus makes the game more fun. 8) A couple of gamey features could be changed or dropped and thus make the game a better experience. A lot of weird stuff has been put into the game as compensation for the missing PvP: Special PvP events, AI-fleets, PVE-based stuff (on PvPserver!), maginotline-forts, PVE-hostility mechanics etc. We didnt need all this stuff when the timers where longers. We simply didnt have to make "artificial" pvp (pve) as the PvP was plentyfull. PvP will be MUCH MORE COMMON. Those where my immidiate thoughts on the subject. I will come back with more, if it comes to my mind. I would also like feedback from others than the usual five sceptical players that counterpost my ideas everytime I put them on air. So gents: please join in! Kind regards Edited February 9, 2017 by fox2run Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hethwill Posted February 9, 2017 Share Posted February 9, 2017 Can we add this ? On going Battle swords disappear for player upon entering port. On going Battle swords not visible until after 30 minutes on the open world ( similar to planned for PB entry ). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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