Coward perk is killing PVP

[Rebel Witch]

This game is like slow motion and it takes a lot of players time and effort to find pvp and play it out, it is healthy for this game that people seek pvp out.

 

The coward perk is great for those who want to stay away from pvp, but there is a catch...

 

The more you cater to those who want to avoid pvp, the more you kill pvp in the game, the more you frustrate pvp'rs the more people will leave this game.

 

If you want a healthy PVP game, Coward perk is not the answer, in fact it is a very frustrating and bad option for pvp. It will tilt this game more toward pve rather than pvp.

 

The perks are interesting but they are proving to be more of a game hurting imbalance to pvp than helpful. imho

[Kaos]

It is all normal and according to plan.

This post might give you some insight of the direction this game is taking: http://forum.game-labs.net/index.php?/topic/14416-crew-management-update-discussion/?p=267864

What do we learn from this statement?

• PvE is dominant ( interesting to say this when the map is overflowed with bots and handhold missions that make it possible to lvl to rear admiral in one place without having to move to other zones, if only finding good pvp fights was that simple )
• Restrictive changes towards PvE oriented players are bad because ratings will drop, does it imply that restrictions towards PvP oriented players in order to handhold PvErs is okay because pvpers are marginal minority anyway and it won't hurt ratings?
• All PvP games are in fact PVE. (!?)

[Dekillos]

 

It is all normal and according to plan.

This post might give you some insight of the direction this game is taking: http://forum.game-labs.net/index.php?/topic/14416-crew-management-update-discussion/?p=267864

What do we learn from this statement?

• All PvP games are in fact PVE. (!?)

lol, very funny. EvE is PVE game   

[Pagan Pete]

Strongly agree...

 

 

[Mrdoomed]

As a avid pvper i haven't noticed it hurting pvp at all. I dont like the skill in general because the timer is short as it is if you dont have a bow gun.

There are much bigger pvp killers and the false " importance " of pve missions is the biggest and the ease and convenience of location...you can grind from 1st to last level just barely outa the capital protection zone. Hell at least every other mmo makes you change zones as you progress ut here you do it all from a safe spot.

I used to hate no cooldown teleports as a pvp killer too but of all things the fishing gas people sailing around again so its not so big a deal, but it still should have a timer of some kinds lol.

I say ease up on pve quests available for higher level flr starters and people will have to go out and look for ai fleets and human players. My 2 cents.

[Destraex]

rebel witch I wonder if there is some way to give a bonus timer if attacking the same rank and BR. I.e. A fair fight and not a gank. Say make a 5 minute escape timer instead of 1 or 2 if these conditions are met for a fair fight.

[Cpt Blackthorne]

I don't believe it is killing the PvP game at all. It is annoying that someone can escape while I'm reloading after I just hit them with a full broadside, and I believe that the timer is a bit too short, but "killing the game"??? Nah...nothing kills this game more than ganker rats being able to attack each other to get away from a gank defense force. Now THAT is killing the game.

[Æthlstan]

Being able to escape the gank is nice. Which is why I chose the coward perk. If its a fight I have a chance of winning, I stay. 

 

I have also been known to kamikaze into larger opponents

[The MetaBaron]

I did a mission once last week because no one was on and I wanted to shoot some guns, a month before that I helped train a new player.... before that I honestly cant remember the last time I went after non player characters.

 

....I play this game almost every day, and the only ships I fight are other players. I play this game exclusively for the PvP. I have stuck with the game as numbers fell and many I know have disappeared. If however they try to nerf the joyful risk of PvP, then that will finely be the death spell for me.

 

I do not read or have ever cared about steam reviews, when you take the average of a population that takes the time to review then your results will be skewed. DO NOT, adjust the game because of steam reviews.

[Æthlstan]

I dont see how coward hurts PvP.  If you performed a good tag, no worries, you got em

 

if you performed a bad tag, you have less of a chance  of fixing your mistake

 

Get good tags and your problem is solved.

[mikawa]

 

I dont see how coward hurts PvP.

I see no problem here, too. What really hurts PVP is ganking fleets. They sail out towards enemy coasts (which I do welcome very much) but then they tag a single target or a fishing fleet and nearby warships have no chance to join, because the battle closes too early. Then they have to wait outside. After victory (which is obligatory) they send out a single speed ship, the single speed ship, the ship reports that outside a big fleet is waiting and then the ships remain in battle screen or even log off (Again: I have nothing against logging off in battle screen). The first time it's funny, but this happens again and again and again and it's getting overall annoying for both, the ships inside the battle and the ships outside. Be honest: no one ever wants to wait inside a battle or outside longer than half an hour for .... nothing!

 

Hey devs, do you have any recipe ready for this really annoying mechanic?

[Gr3y]

 

It is all normal and according to plan.

This post might give you some insight of the direction this game is taking: http://forum.game-labs.net/index.php?/topic/14416-crew-management-update-discussion/?p=267864

What do we learn from this statement?

• PvE is dominant ( interesting to say this when the map is overflowed with bots and handhold missions that make it possible to lvl to rear admiral in one place without having to move to other zones, if only finding good pvp fights was that simple )
• Restrictive changes towards PvE oriented players are bad because ratings will drop, does it imply that restrictions towards PvP oriented players in order to handhold PvErs is okay because pvpers are marginal minority anyway and it won't hurt ratings?
• All PvP games are in fact PVE. (!?)

 

 

this is irrilevant for a few things

 

-pve kills are more because Npc never surrender or escape battles 

-as how is the game right now people can't pvp to rank XP(too much time consuming) but they can only pve for that

-in almost all pvp battles 1 side try to escape and the other try to sank and/or board in pve npc always fight you back.

-you must go where people are to pvp (and going for a 1h voyage with only the hope of a pvp fight is not what all the people can afford with 1h of free-time).

-pvp battle are a lot more time consuming (defensive tag, coward perk etc... etc...) so most people can't do a pvp fight into another pvp fight most of the time.

-pvp are more gold consuming than pve so people pve for conpensate the difference.

 

 

and i can keep goin but i think i show my point.

 

and to add, i'm fine with the game as is right now, but the coward perk is a bit frustrating sometimes when you know you are faster but the enemy defence tag you and your chaser decide to shoot in a different direction.

Edited July 25, 2016 by Gr3y

[Captain Red]

I'd rather say it's hurting non-consensual PvP, which doesn't sound really wrong.

Edited July 25, 2016 by Captain Red

[mikawa]

 

Motivate players to fight outnumbered?

That's quite another topic. The attack fleets I've seen in hundreds of gameplay hours only fight if they are outnumbered. The last equal battle I've seen was when BR limit was active, but then all these players were complaining and the devs removed it.

[victor]

This game is like slow motion and it takes a lot of players time and effort to find pvp and play it out, it is healthy for this game that people seek pvp out.

 

The coward perk is great for those who want to stay away from pvp, but there is a catch...

 

The more you cater to those who want to avoid pvp, the more you kill pvp in the game, the more you frustrate pvp'rs the more people will leave this game.

 

If you want a healthy PVP game, Coward perk is not the answer, in fact it is a very frustrating and bad option for pvp. It will tilt this game more toward pve rather than pvp.

 

The perks are interesting but they are proving to be more of a game hurting imbalance to pvp than helpful. imho

 

The only downside of coward perk, in my opinion, is that it made useless for chasing ships without ... chasers (well .... nomen omen).

 

If you use a rattlesnake or a trinco (or a consti for heavy preys) of any wood different than live oak with a couple of speed and reaload rigs, if you install gold pellew sight, if you use zoom to aim, but first and most important .... if you think wise and tag properly, there's no coward park that may stop you from taking your prey.

Edited July 25, 2016 by victor

[Cmdr RideZ]

Said in some other thread 4/3 or 4/2...

 

3 minutes without perk and 2 minutes with perk.  Could work as well, or at least be better than 1 minute.

[Guest]

3 minutes without perk and 2 minutes with perk.  Could work as well, or at least be better than 1 minute.

Indeed, for gankers this would work well

[Cmdr RideZ]

Indeed, for gankers this would work well

There is a fleet of gankers and they all have the Coward perk.  Why would gankers have the perk?  Could you imagine a reason for that?

[Guest]

There is a fleet of gankers and they all have the Coward perk.  Why would gankers have the perk?  Could you imagine a reason for that?

I cannot even imagine why someone is ganking tbh.

[Cmdr RideZ]

I cannot even imagine why someone is ganking tbh.

Well the reason why they would have the Coward perk is that they can escape easier -> Be more efficient gankers.

 

And as they are gankers, they probably would skip a fair fight.

 

Coward is simply a bit too good atm., and it is too good for all, even for the gankers.

[Mrdoomed]

I don't believe it is killing the PvP game at all. It is annoying that someone can escape while I'm reloading after I just hit them with a full broadside, and I believe that the timer is a bit too short, but "killing the game"??? Nah...nothing kills this game more than ganker rats being able to attack each other to get away from a gank defense force. Now THAT is killing the game.

Ive heard the pvp1 guys complain of this but does it really happen in pvp2? As a pirate i can say ive never once ever thought of this or used this to get away. I prefer running and being called a coward on global lol.

I agree this is BS but with the smuggler flag now its any nation not just pirates that can do it. If this happening its a shame.

[Dick Brave]

Now I encountered some gankers. Their tactics are mostly like this:

 

- They use Speed optimized ships (Speed Fir-Wood with copper plating, speed trim and Frigate master perk), preferrably Rattlesnake, Surprise, Frigate because of the Bow-Chasers

- They attack single ships in groups of two or three

- They slow down their victim by using chain shots

- At least one is boarding equipped and will cap you once you have been slowed down enough

- When outnumbered they will counter tag one of the pursuers as early as possible and run, leaving the battle using the Coward-Perk and hide in battle screen for ages

 

Somehow it looks like I described typical pirate tactic.

 

There's nothing wrong with the first four points. I'm fine with that because thats their tactics and I have to be prepared for that e.g. by never sail alone.

But the last point is rather annoying. A few days ago I was in my Connie in a fight with three Surprises - I sank one which IIRC was already heavily damaged from a previous fight (why the hell didn't that guy repair in OW - could have been a fleet NPC, I don't remember ) and fought the other two. I guess they thought that I'm an easy prey.

I damaged both of them heavily, one was down to almost Zero, but got an opportunity to repair so he got back to about 20% on both sides. I was tacking and about to follow them to finish them off when they used their coward perk to leave the battle and hide. I'm quite sure that I would have got both of them if they wouldn't be able to leave already after one minute cooldown. Just two minutes would have been enough to keep them in the fight.

 

Btw: Those three were pirates and I doubt that they try to dance that Tango again.

[Gr3y]

what if attacker got a timer of 5 minute even with the perk on? 

this woul resolve defensive tagging and the coward perk...

[Kaos]

this is irrilevant for a few things

 

-pve kills are more because Npc never surrender or escape battles 

-as how is the game right now people can't pvp to rank XP(too much time consuming) but they can only pve for that

-in almost all pvp battles 1 side try to escape and the other try to sank and/or board in pve npc always fight you back.

-you must go where people are to pvp (and going for a 1h voyage with only the hope of a pvp fight is not what all the people can afford with 1h of free-time).

-pvp battle are a lot more time consuming (defensive tag, coward perk etc... etc...) so most people can't do a pvp fight into another pvp fight most of the time.

-pvp are more gold consuming than pve so people pve for conpensate the difference.

 

 

and i can keep goin but i think i show my point.

 

and to add, i'm fine with the game as is right now, but the coward perk is a bit frustrating sometimes when you know you are faster but the enemy defence tag you and your chaser decide to shoot in a different direction.

I think you don't understand my post, you are repeating everything I wanted to say in it. I'll reword it then: in order to keep pve players on map we ''need'' to give them all kinds of crutches from ai fleets, missions, heavy bot traffic to perks like coward and you can't take it away from them once you introduce it or ratings will drop since this is the main influencer. If you question this you get answers that say that all pvp games are pve anyway and basically you know nothing, even EvE is pve game ...

Also on a sidenote it's not the first time these features meant for making it easier for the gank victims are actually being used by gankers to make it more easier to avoid counter-ganks and enjoy even more risk free ganking.

[Cpt Blackthorne]

If they remove the coward perk because ganker rats are crying like babies, then they better remove the rat ability to attack each other and they better remove hiding in battle results screen. and they better extend the battle entrance timer.

I have no sympathy for any rat ever crying about game mechanics, especially when they use the ones they cry about. In fact, if I were a dev, I would remove any mechanics from any person who doesn't want that mechanic, yet leave it for everyone else. Don't like fleets eh? Removed from you, but no one else. Don't like coward perk, gone from you, but stays for everyone else. That would teach you whiny gankers who do nothing but prey on single ships and run from more that one to sthu.