Bach Posted July 1, 2016 Share Posted July 1, 2016 I have a completely different opinion about this. This perk forces (forced) pirates to do ganking rather than fair fights. Getting the 6 points for it and having 5 perk slots, there is no real trade in for getting it. you can still take double shot, defender, your ship mastery and heck even prepared or pirate in case you fight another nat yourself. There is no downside to taking it, its not like it lowers your relaod against nations by the same amount it boosts it against pirates or anything. That being said, i dont like the speed bonus against nationals as well (working for nat vs nat as well right now btw) Oh and by the way, i dont consider most of the posts about it here being whiny, many of them actually had a lot of good reasoning to it and did explain the concerns with this perk (and many others) quite well On the other hand, any pirate trying to do fair or 1v1 fights is at a severe disadvantage from the start. sure he is 1knot faster than the enemy (if he got pirate and the ship master), but thats only good for running someone down or escaping. So it basically forces pirates into ganking or running. The game should be skill based, not gear/perk based. Before this, everyone could get the same bonuses as his enemy, it only depended on the preferred setup and gold you were willing to sink into it. Now, some players are barred from getting certain combat related things (pirates relaod bonuses against nats and nats speed against pirates) Thats not really the way i want to see the game taking Tuning it down is the right way, my opinion is still that the game should remain skill-based. As akd said earlier: If you think pirates are all about 1v1, hate ganking and don't run then we must be playing two different games. Anytime a factor is changed on the second day of testing I'm calling it a result of whining. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sharden Posted July 1, 2016 Share Posted July 1, 2016 (edited) If you think pirates are all about 1v1, hate ganking and don't run then we must be playing two different games. Anytime a factor is changed on the second day of testing I'm calling it a result of whining. I never said they are all about that or hate ganking. Thats something shared across all factions though and yes there are pirates who like even fights. those are the ones being hurt by this a lot. It still isnt a good idea to destroy this kind of gameplay Admin stated right from the start though that they were aware of the need for tuning these perks. I call it a quick response rather than result of whining. there you go. Edited July 1, 2016 by Sharden Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cmdr RideZ Posted July 1, 2016 Share Posted July 1, 2016 The shipwreck... Give us a map in the inventory, that we can look if we want. Showing the coastal lines, and you have to find it by yourself. No X in the map. In the same way as in the Sid Meier's Pirates. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ink Posted July 1, 2016 Share Posted July 1, 2016 Captains, at the moment there could be a bug - after using double shots guns with loaded balls might stuck on elevation - a workaround is to load any other charge and back to balls afterwards Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akd Posted July 1, 2016 Share Posted July 1, 2016 Captains, at the moment there could be a bug - after using double shots guns with loaded balls might stuck on elevation - a workaround is to load any other charge and back to balls afterwards Yes, I mentioned this earlier. Mixing carronades and guns on a broadside is also completely broken*. If you select doubleshot, carronades keep last shot loaded (as they should), guns reload with double, but when you fire, whatever shot was last loaded (and is currently loaded in carronades) is used for all shots. E.g. your UI will show carronades loaded with ball and long guns loaded with double, but every shot will actually be default ball. *unless this was hotfixed today in patch without notes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Khendon Posted July 1, 2016 Share Posted July 1, 2016 You got his ship AND whatever he was carrying to sell now. THERE is your extra reward. i did not get his ship. he awaited until he was sinking to surrender. and then his ship sank 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JazAero Posted July 1, 2016 Share Posted July 1, 2016 (edited) Okay we'll to begin, 1st I put a good solid 48+ hours playing this Patch with no Breaks. Here are my observations and also those of a few of my comrades. To start with fishing is nice. It gives you you something to do , but That combined with treasure hunting for bottles has broken the economy on Many levels. Allow me to elaborate. Before this patch the player economy on the PVE was really starting to shape up . It was player driven And player controlled in respect to crafting and shipbuilding. That has all gone completely out the window. Now there is -0- economy for crafting mods because players would rather instead search for bottles, guaranteeing them gold Exceptional mods that in the past they had to work for, supply materials for, And support the Crafter who made them, This gave them real value and drove a grassroots crafting economy. That's gone now. The same can be said for ships And shipbuilders Who Had established a viable shipbuilding economy. That has also been Upended. Players no longer wish to risk large battles or fleet actions because the cost Has just become too Great and is entirely unbalanced. The perk system for lack of a better term is just wrong on every single level. You turn the game from a skill-based game which was coming along beautifully and really settled into a polished finish mechanic. That also now has been thrown out in favor of MMO perks and Give me's. Those perks in and of themselves further unbalanced other game mechanics. Many of which have been already voiced so I won't repeat them. Fleets are useless. Worse than useless. They are detrimental. Before fleets returned players formed their own fleets, I repeat, "players formed their own fleets". Promoting good Cooperative, Rewarding gameplay. Gameplay was developing Players towards Forming communities of players supporting each other. Now it's become Treasure Hunter 2.0, no one sails in player driven fleets any longer. Because everyone can have their own private little fleet. So in essence you Segregated the player base. Combat actions Especially cooperative ones are becoming very rare Or nonexistent because of the extreme cost to crew. Currency has been inflated to the point where it has no value. If you're going to require sailors to sail their ships for hours on end to reach shipwrecks Then you cannot have Players disconnecting After a few minutes because of the boredom of sailing a straight line forever. The Longitude and latitude Grid system on the map is a huge improvement. but it needs to be taken even further. There needs to be a ship positioning tool, perhaps a small icon which can be positioned under player control in order to track their course. Not an auto positioning tool mind you I'm not talking about a GPS. Simply a little icon marker that you can move from around the map to track your location, perhaps even clicking to leave a mark which then has a dotted line connecting 2 previous marks in order to chart a course. Fishing itself is great and I think you're scratching the surface here of something that can be taken much, much further. Perhaps whaling fleets? It would be nice also to see dolphins swimming in front Of your ships From time to time. From A game standpoint This should not be difficult to do with this graphics engine and with the game mechanics. You have already programmed. Blueprint drops are still abysmally bad. Enough said on that issue. Port approaches need to be reworked, too many Port approaches, Have no rhyme or reason for the location of sudden shallows. How about channel markers? They had them back In the day. or channel buoys To mark the deep channels. And while we're on the subject, we desperately need lighthouses. And real Ocean waves not the watered-down versions We have now, especially With regard to storms. I know you used to have them. And apparently the PVP people didn't like them So we all suffered.. I'm not trying to be totally negative here, but this new patch broke too many things And really Changed the game from one of cooperative skill-based (PVE) To Almost (PVP) perk based every man for them self gameplay. Edited July 2, 2016 by JazAero Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeRuyter Posted July 1, 2016 Share Posted July 1, 2016 ---- Regarding surrending, it is quite obvious that something will need to be done about surrendering while sinking or on fire. Otherwise we are stuck with outcomes where I never lose an officer life, but you never get a prize. I would suggest: Harsh: you cannot surrender while taking water or burning. Simplest, but I'm not a huge fan of this because it will lead to unnatural outcomes (premature surrender or unable to surrender when taking tiny amounts of water due to side "integrity" being gone). Gentle: after surrender, ship receives a huge survival bonus for pumping out water, repairing leaks and dousing fires, or surrendering simply freezes the current damage state of the ship (water rises no higher, fire does not progress any further). Basically a surrendered ship would never sink or burn down. This is logical to a degree as a surrendered ship is no longer in combat and can focus fully on survival, and the ship might even receive help from prize crews coming aboard via ships' boats. A crew is not going to strike their colors then merrily stand by as the ship sinks under them. Problem is that everyone will always unnaturally fight to the last possible moment then surrender, rather than having to gauge the risk / sacrifice of fighting on vs. surrender. In between: if you are on fire or taking water, surrendering has an exit with officer life cooldown. You strike as normal, but cannot immediately exit and outcomes for the ship are tracked for X minutes or until an enemy takes possession of the ship. If your ship sinks or explodes in this time, you still lose an officer life. Surrendered ships would of course need to have damage turned off (I think they do already), and come with some amount of survival bonus as above, although perhaps not a guarantee of staying float. This way waiting until the last moment to surrender so no one ever gets a prize becomes a big gamble, but the other team still needs to take care of their prizes to some degree. And getting no kills for surrendered ships after actually fighting and delivering significant damage is surely a bug, is it not? +1 As I posted in another thread - taking on water was a good reason for surrendering IRL. Many sailors in the 18th century did not know how to swim and saving the ship by surrendering was preferable to drowning or the sharks... For gameplay it is simple: Give kill xp and force on survival you noted above. Problem solved. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bach Posted July 1, 2016 Share Posted July 1, 2016 (edited) +1 As I posted in another thread - taking on water was a good reason for surrendering IRL. Many sailors in the 18th century did not know how to swim and saving the ship by surrendering was preferable to drowning or the sharks... For gameplay it is simple: Give kill xp and force on survival you noted above. Problem solved. I don't think you can give kill xp for surrenders. Two players could theoretically hop out of port enter a battle in 30 sec, one surrender to the other taking no damage or crew loss, the other cap the ship. He gets full xp and the ship for 2 min effort. Back inside port he hands the ship back to the other guy rinse and repeat. He could level a character to max in an hour and make a million or more gold. The exploit potential is just to high. There has to be some form of loss to one of the parties for xp and gold to be awarded. Edited July 1, 2016 by Bach 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akd Posted July 1, 2016 Share Posted July 1, 2016 You cannot building salt production buildings (salt mines? salt pans?) in ports that produce salt. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Young Posted July 1, 2016 Share Posted July 1, 2016 no but a farm mixes salt and meat to make food stuffs, Also any answer on the Rum is there going to be a distillery building down the road or do you have to make barrels and mix sugar to get yerr rum Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akd Posted July 1, 2016 Share Posted July 1, 2016 Yes, but I want to become the saltfish mogul of the East Coast. I need to invest my Flying Fish profits somewhere. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeathGenie Posted July 1, 2016 Share Posted July 1, 2016 I'd agree with everyone that the 20% reloading vs pirates is a little broken, now on the other hand it is supposed to be the hardest faction, so 5% I could see. 5-10% maybe but 20% is a bit much, the 1 knt sailing speed is a good bonus for the pirates, now if there were more "pirate" vessels like the pirate frigate I could see the 5-10% being not a bad thing seeing as you'd want to board and plunder them anyways so lets see some better pirates boarding and maybe a slight nerf to the reload speed on the officers next patch eh?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akd Posted July 1, 2016 Share Posted July 1, 2016 Please explain the new shot log abbreviations and numbers. My first assumption was that: P = potential penetration of the shot at point of impact A = relative side thickness (based on angle) at point of impact T = actual side thickness at point of impact Angle = angle of impact from 0° But if so, then there appears to be errors in the calculation of relative thickness, checking against the online calculator that can be found here: http://www.panzerworld.com/relative-armor-calculator Also how can a shot that strikes at very close to vertical and is only a centimeter or so away from penetrating do so little HP damage? (I think something like 10% of penetrating shot damage.) Shouldn't this shot be deeply embedded in the hull of the ship, contributing significantly to "integrity" damage, but without potential for crew or gun damage behind the hull side? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Khendon Posted July 2, 2016 Share Posted July 2, 2016 (edited) Any faction-based bonuses are corrosive to the spirit of the game and good PvP. Every fight a pirate loses will now be a result of Pirate Hunter bonus. Every time someone gets ganked by a pirate, it will be because of Pirate speed bonus. Of course this will not be true, but faction bonuses (especially big ones) create the perception that skill is no longer paramount, and an environment where people believe that no fight can ever be fair. While 5% reload reductions (and perhaps .25kn speed boosts) are less destructive, they are still a flawed approach to making officers interesting. In my opinion we already achieved a fine balance of skill vs. upgrade options when it comes to combat bonuses, particularly speed and reload. In fact, we reached it through much blood, sweat and tears. They are meaningful, valuable, but not decisive. Tossing in huge bonuses on top of this is wrecking that balance, and changing this to a very different game. The sad thing is that there is no reason officers have to come with stacking bonuses on top of existing upgrades. If you can't think of a new and interesting bonuses unique to officers vs. upgrades, consider instead migrating some upgrade bonuses to officer skills. There are in my opinion already too many physical upgrades offering bonuses that stack with existing upgrades, that make little sense as physical upgrades, and that could work much better as officer skills. Many of the recently added upgrades would be much more interesting as officer perk choices you can make through the course of earning XP by your preferred means, rather than random drops you are forced to grind PvE (or now grind fishing) to ever have a chance of seeing. For example, Steel Toolbox combined with Survival Handbooks is an extremely powerful combination (possibly OP), but neither make much sense as a physical upgrade. Why not either combine them into a powerful officer perk, or move one of them to an officer perk so that there aren't two stacking repair upgrades with no negatives at all? ---- Regarding surrending, it is quite obvious that something will need to be done about surrendering while sinking or on fire. Otherwise we are stuck with outcomes where I never lose an officer life, but you never get a prize. I would suggest: Harsh: you cannot surrender while taking water or burning. Simplest, but I'm not a huge fan of this because it will lead to unnatural outcomes (premature surrender or unable to surrender when taking tiny amounts of water due to side "integrity" being gone). Gentle: after surrender, ship receives a huge survival bonus for pumping out water, repairing leaks and dousing fires, or surrendering simply freezes the current damage state of the ship (water rises no higher, fire does not progress any further). Basically a surrendered ship would never sink or burn down. This is logical to a degree as a surrendered ship is no longer in combat and can focus fully on survival, and the ship might even receive help from prize crews coming aboard via ships' boats. A crew is not going to strike their colors then merrily stand by as the ship sinks under them. Problem is that everyone will always unnaturally fight to the last possible moment then surrender, rather than having to gauge the risk / sacrifice of fighting on vs. surrender. In between: if you are on fire or taking water, surrendering has an exit with officer life cooldown. You strike as normal, but cannot immediately exit and outcomes for the ship are tracked for X minutes or until an enemy takes possession of the ship. If your ship sinks or explodes in this time, you still lose an officer life. Surrendered ships would of course need to have damage turned off (I think they do already), and come with some amount of survival bonus as above, although perhaps not a guarantee of staying float. This way waiting until the last moment to surrender so no one ever gets a prize becomes a big gamble, but the other team still needs to take care of their prizes to some degree. And getting no kills for surrendered ships after actually fighting and delivering significant damage is surely a bug, is it not? this whole thing is genius. admin said to on my topic earlier that surrender gives no kills to avoid players capping alt santismas to tip hostilities later....BUT....i havent tried it but i bet i could ship out in my vic with like 20 dudes or something and still cap myself. shhhhh i dont have alts. who does??? i love the gentle surrender option. i took a fight earlier...hashtag...accidentally got into a fight. frig vs frig/conni. due to really excellent undock timing on the enemy's part and my stupidity. fight ensues.... i sank the pursuing frig who was probably fir or teak i dunno...i was oak....and in so doing took mega sail damage and hull damage and the slower trailing conni finished punching my face in. it was a 2v1 worthy of naval action. it was a great fight. except that the frig surrendered and i didnt get kill credit and i surrendered pissed off that he surrendered and he didnt get kill credit. the frigate and i wrecked eachother and neither of us got the rewards we should have been due, or the consequences....i personally had to replace TWENTY THREE sailors. off a sunken ship...and my officer made it out with out a scratch. what a champ! in all reality if the above changes became a thing its highly possible that that surviving constitution might have sunk me (which he did) and then saved his wrecked and surrendered home slice who was wallowing close to sinking with a white banner flying. i'm just hypothesizing. i knew my ship was sunk as soon as i saw the other frig was faster than i was. good fights to those involved. cheers. Edited July 2, 2016 by Khendon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cpt Terenor Posted July 2, 2016 Share Posted July 2, 2016 (edited) Lol dev, one sugar cost 1600 in you'r industry but only 200 in the shop Food cost 500 in you'r industry but only 200 in the shop for craft one rum with you'r industry that will cost you 5 K the fucking RUM wen you craft a medikit with you'r own industry that cost you 19 K are you crazy i mean realy crazy? Edited July 2, 2016 by cpt Terenor 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Khendon Posted July 2, 2016 Share Posted July 2, 2016 i think that the non perm mods should have dura on them 5 seems to be a good number. why does that squad of marines get to live forever unless they are on a ship which gets sank that one last time? what sense does that make? how many times can those craftable golden pumpes get blown out, sunk, capped, and other wise mangled before they accidentally ride the last dura into infinity?? and WHY DO ALL MODS REQUIRE MID GRADE NOTES HOLY CRAP DEVS ITS TERRIBLE. if i wanna do anything i gotta blow an entire DAYS worth of labor to make one piddly little mod AND my ship has 8 slots. that's over 8 days labor to make mods for ONE ship and you guys said that ships werent even supposed to live that long. my ship is supposed to run out of dura before i can craft the items to fit it out properly??? "huh well ya see khendon you are supposed to work with friends and clan dudes" right thanks. we got plenty of dudes, sadly they also have ships...several of them...i know. crazy. and guess what....all them tharr ships be is needin them tharr upgrades ya dig? all rage aside. i firmly believe that players should not undock what they cannot afford to loose AND if they choose to undock it, other players had better be able to help them loose it. including gold marines, boarding parties, and survival handbooks. (having been sunk today my handbooks should be 4/5 dura left. cheers.) also dura's are stupid. the ship sank.........buy a new one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Khendon Posted July 2, 2016 Share Posted July 2, 2016 I'd agree with everyone that the 20% reloading vs pirates is a little broken, now on the other hand it is supposed to be the hardest faction, so 5% I could see. 5-10% maybe but 20% is a bit much, the 1 knt sailing speed is a good bonus for the pirates, now if there were more "pirate" vessels like the pirate frigate I could see the 5-10% being not a bad thing seeing as you'd want to board and plunder them anyways so lets see some better pirates boarding and maybe a slight nerf to the reload speed on the officers next patch eh?? the pirate faction as a WHOLE is shattered busted fucked and broke. the solution is NOT to make all nations insane vs pirates. thats dumb. another option is to check out what pagan pete is doing and mold the pirate faction around getting dank ganks. that's what pirates are. STOP WATCHING BLACK FLAGS DEVS. great tv show....(also recall they had like 4 frigs and a man'o'war or something like that) POINT BEING. pirates should be ripping and tearing coast lines, nationals should be hunting and hanging and saving their poor trade vessels. not capping ports, sailing 1st rates and building a black flag empire. wut?? stop it. here is a thought, you could give them a speed buff instead of speed nerf for having ships in fleet AND not let them sail anything bigger than a 5th rate. they can catch any trader, have the fire power to dunk it and probably some friends. they can swarm a smaller(some what larger as well) war vessel not ESCORTED and they dont suffer the speed debuff if folks chase them with loads of fire power in personal fleets. just and offhand thought. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blaubaer Posted July 2, 2016 Share Posted July 2, 2016 (edited) I really don't like that the position is given on the map. Almost no difference to a blinking dot now. Please, at least make this an officer skill ("navigator"). Edit: Fishing is a great idea. Edit 2: Can we have degrees and minutes? 16.80° looks a bit wrong. Edited July 2, 2016 by Blaubaer 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quineloe Posted July 2, 2016 Share Posted July 2, 2016 Why are these bottles important? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kanay Posted July 2, 2016 Share Posted July 2, 2016 Why are these bottles important? They indicate you a location for a ship wreck that contains the best loot you ever had in game (even after it was nerfed now), got 4 bottles the second day, 4 gold upgrades, 3 LH contracts ( 500LH free regen on each ) some gold and silver coins ... and this is after the nerf, on the first day each bottle could give you multiples LH contracts , up to 2500+ free labor hours + gold upgrades and coins etc and some found 6-8 of those on the first day ... Got swords handbook gold, extra stay and studding sails gold on others , just need to be lucky and finally put my hands on a gold marines and i will be done for the upgrades in game, but seems the drop rate was nerfed again yesterday in a tiny patch and need to be very lucky to find one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Capitan Camuñas Posted July 2, 2016 Share Posted July 2, 2016 but seems the drop rate was nerfed again yesterday in a tiny patch and need to be very lucky to find one. So i never gonna get one xD i travel like 12hrs or more in 3 days and zero bottles RNG in action Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loco Bandito Posted July 2, 2016 Share Posted July 2, 2016 Played two days and got one bottle. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kanay Posted July 2, 2016 Share Posted July 2, 2016 Saw very few bottles reported in chat since yesterday, and yeah RNG ... Chances should be that a player can catch a bottle guaranteed after sailing between 30-60 hours, or even 50-100 hours, can happen after 51 hours or after 99 hours of sailing to keep it fair, or after catching between 4000-5000 fishes or something like this, keeping numbers non disclosed for players but this will guarantee that sooner or later you will get one and it will still remain something happening once in a while as supposed to be, but more fair than pure RNG that seems to be in game with some very lucky and some very unfortunate . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quineloe Posted July 2, 2016 Share Posted July 2, 2016 They indicate you a location for a ship wreck that contains the best loot you ever had in game (even after it was nerfed now), got 4 bottles the second day, 4 gold upgrades, 3 LH contracts ( 500LH free regen on each ) some gold and silver coins ... and this is after the nerf, on the first day each bottle could give you multiples LH contracts , up to 2500+ free labor hours + gold upgrades and coins etc and some found 6-8 of those on the first day ... Got swords handbook gold, extra stay and studding sails gold on others , just need to be lucky and finally put my hands on a gold marines and i will be done for the upgrades in game, but seems the drop rate was nerfed again yesterday in a tiny patch and need to be very lucky to find one. That is an outright amazing addition to the game that puts players back on the open world. Good on them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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