DeathGenie

I agree, even as a pirate, limited access to ships of the line doesn't remove anything from anyone, if we pirates cannot craft ships of the line it does strongly limit our port capping and large pvp battle capabilities, but you know what? No one is required to be a pirate if you dislike the idea of pirates being limited by nature don't be a pirate, if we do limit pirates to raiding and make their few ports across the map uncappable then we'll see pirates doing.. well piraty things, raiding ports, attacking traders, attacking naval officers who can't stand up to them. If you want nation play, play as an established nation, I'm sure the US and brits could use assistance as they obviously can't stand up to the current pirate faction, right now its just a nation like every other nation, we have other nations, if pirates become different than nations then we won't really lose people... we'll see some of the current pirates switching to a nation, but thats not exactly a bad thing huge nations with small amounts of pirates around the map in their strategically placed locations disrupting the trade lanes would be interesting. Right now what we have is a huge black nation crushing actual nations, not being pirates. If we do see changes like this I'd also like to see an option to defect from the pirate faction to any nations, perhaps it costs a large amount of gold, but you have the ability to buy a pardon from a nation and become that nation. Enough gold that its not worth exploiting, but not so much that its impossible for a player to do.

I really don't like pirates being involved in the conquest area of the game like they are right now, I think there should be ports that should just be uncapturable that are pirate only, sort of like pirate havens or something, just too lawless to really control, and then free towns as well that pirates get more ability out of like raiding flags and maybe a better shipyard than is at a pirate port that allows them to build larger ships. I was definitely implying overcrewing and less stability, they would have not ever realistically gotten a 3rd rate so who knows what the pirates would put on that, some of the bolder ones if they had one might aim to take out a navy frigate or something if they wanted to, we don't really know what they would do on a 3rd rate so it was just an assumption but usually they found assorted gun sizes on all decks of sunken pirate vessels some up to very large sizes it just depends on what they got their hands on. We do however know that the few larger galleons and smaller rated ships they captured often times were put ashore and all the guns moved to one size and used like a fortress near a larger pirate port.

I agree, let us put 1st rate guns on 3rd rates and perhaps more of them as well, its a very pirate thing to do, pirates weren't opposed to adding more guns than a ship was supposed to have on a ship, they weren't concerned about the long term usage of their boats, it was a means to an existence, if they needed a new boat they took one. If we see raiding implemented and pirate port capture removed I'd like to see pirate ports unable to be captured like this, it makes pirates a global threat which sadly we can't be atm, there's not as much you can do out of a free town. I would like to see more free town functionality for pirates too, they were havens for all especially pirates, perhaps if added functionality is added to pirates in free towns some of the pirate towns could be turned into free towns. I should also note that as a pirate, not a national player I'm supporting these things, I also would like to see crafting limited, not to just pirates, but to nationals as well, I'd like to see 1st/2nd rates come in as a reward for very high level missions and not craftable, if they were rewards from hard missions with only 1 dura I doubt anyone would recklessly waste it just because they had enough economy as a nation to do so. This would also push people towards smaller ships, not necessarily frigates, but at least somewhat towards them, another mechanic perhaps can be created to make 3rd rates hard to get as well. Perhaps higher cost to craft so you see more 3rd rates in the nations who control better economic ports than other nations, gives a reason to cap ports besides location and the current "why not" factor..

Ah yes the pirate organization was a sudden thing for us too, and @Prater if the only thing you have to complain about is pirates grinding xp on other pirates then stop complaining because it isn't happening, hasn't happened since honor kills were removed.

If pirates cannot take ports then other factions should not be able to take our ports either, I'm okay with a mechanic that allows raiding or something instead of taking ports, but if we're removing pirates from taking ports then we need several other mechanics to change as well.

Anyways I personally think Tommy shelby is just being a little baby about this, perfectly valid tactic regardless of the situation, Tommy's fault for being there in the first place. If you really don't like being stuck in combat and want to get out, press the surrender button or sail a faster ship.

If its anything like the pirate frigate it has a invisible built in boarding parties upgrade, they mentioned it just has boarding boosts as well, but thats what the boarding boost is

Alright I understand where you are coming from, but I feel like removing xp from pve would take out a lot of content for pirates too, that would mean they have to grind endless pve fleets to get gold to get ships they can actually sink pvp players in and then hunt down actual players who are a low enough rank for them to even fight that then dont run away, wouldn't just be slow xp, it'd be impossible xp. I agree pvp should be required for some component of the pirate faction to work, raiding especially sounds like a good idea from all of those who suggested it, and perhaps the nations can raid the pirate ports too?

The only nation that actually built a ship of the line in the caribbean is spain, in Havana, and that's only because they owned most of cuba and its immense size allowed for the immense resources required to build a ship of the line, there has to be a balance between realism and fun, if they wanted to go full realism I doubt we would see ships of the line in the caribbean at all, and we most certainly wouldn't see more than two per nation if we even got any. We'd also be able to dock large ships in shallow water ports by using a longboat to get to the shore.

I guess I didn't realize other nations building 1st rates was realistic either, oh wait, it isn't. Very few times did the major nations send ships of the line to the caribbean, and almost every time it was done was to quell piracy. Can't have an age of sail game without pirates mate.

I like the idea of raiding ports, the reason I didn't add it to my post is I'm pretty sure its been suggested before, I do like the idea of it being contested until the next day, then pirates can "conquest" and still do the port battles and stuff, but it would then have no long term affects on the controller of the port. Perhaps make the "raid flags" cheaper than conquest flags since you don't actually get a port out of it.

Gotta love when someone starts clearly losing a debate that's obviously founded on butthurt-ness turns into an age thing. Best way to start recovery is admitting there is a problem my friend. I read all your paragraphs, and in the other forums you've posted its all the same, I've never once seen a single good idea come from you because every change you've suggested only has your own goals in mind and not the goals for a flourishing game. I suppose I should make it clear what I'd like to see for the pirate faction instead of just being sarcastic and passive aggressive toward Sharpe, which to set the record straight I've yet to even see in game or be sunk by, anyways off my random tangent there. I enjoy pirates as they are, and from what I understand there are changes already coming that the devs have thought of, so I've yet to actually post my suggestions because I trust the devs, probably some of the best devs I've seen in game making so far. What I'd like to see is the removal of the conquest option for pirates, right now thats not a feasible option since there isnt terribly much to do in game besides sink npcs and go on conquests or pvp, but I'd also like to see ports that are pirate ports become uncapturable, when I started the map was static and ports didn't change, there were plenty of random places around the map that a pirate could port at and make a nice home base of, perfectly dotted around the map so pirates could become a presence that causes all nation's trade to be at risk if they didn't take the long way past the pirate ports. If pirates could never capture or lose ports it would encourage groups to take up residence long term at a port and make it their goal to control the area and disrupt trading, and as traders get better they start dodging pirated areas and the smarter traders get away, but then it forces the pirates to adapt and so on and so forth creating the vicious piracy cycle we've all expected. This also encourages pirate v pirate conflict as the only real thing pirates fought each other for was plunder, the pirate that could dominate the best shipping lanes made the most money. Before any changes happen to pirates however there needs to be changes to the other nations to encourage piracy to begin with, the current trade and economic system does not encourage sailing around looking for traders to capture.. since there are no traders, its far more profitable at the moment to just go sink everything in sight than trade. We need to see the nations changed in such a way that a trader from a nation can trade with another nation for its goods that only that nation has, as they are a luxury in places they are not produced. In times of war trade did not stop, but tariffs and blockades were a good way to control the trading. Anyways to sum everything up, 'Sharpe, quit being butt hurt, change trade, adjust the nations to allow a trade system between nations, and then change the pirates so they are a unique faction and not just an empire building nation with a black flag. Much love -Death Genie

We saw no npcs in open sea, near the coast, near the cities, near the water in general actually, not one npc on the ocean in 2 hours of searching

Anyways there were pirates that historically wanted to make a pirate nation, Blackbeard is one, there was also a group on Nassau who wanted to become an independent nation, before the english killed them that is... Not as a short term goal, they actually made steps to become their own nation. Actually You did start your post off complaining about how we're not the hardest faction and complaining that we xp farm off each other, which actually hasn't happened since honor kills were removed. When there are more players and more traders pirates will look like pirates rather than conquesting all of america's ports, because there will be reason to pirate, there isn't right now. You're pointing your finger in the wrong direction, the solution is not located in changing the pirate nation, but changing the other nations to encourage trade. So from what I understand the reason you actually made this post was because you're butt hurt that the pirates are stronger than you and stealing all your ports, suggesting changes because butt hurt is not the right path.

Seven days at sea here, not sure why they aren't spawning, I'm wondering if maybe the spawn system is trying to spawn pavel fleets and it can't since they dont exist, but it thinks it spawned a fleet and since that fleet that it never spawned never dies it never spawns another fleet in its place?

I'm so sorry that you feel as though your enemies should have it harder than you, they are changing pirates to make them harder but this is not the way.

Ah, makes some sense, I guess it could also be that its still in commission as a museum ship in Great Britain..

Good to know. More information is always good. I can see how sitting deeper could influence better wave resistance and increase speed, especially in deeper waves. So, now I guess the question is why did they choose the trinc? And screw frigates were frigates that had an engine. Later on when steam ships became big. Quite a few ships commissioned as Leda class were finished as screw frigates.

From what I've read they are always referred to as Cydnus class, good to know its a sub class of Leda ships. From what I understand there was a ship named Leda, a Hébé class ship. Perhaps renamed Leda when the english captured it.

I'd need to find the book I read it in, I don't remember the name of it. I can probably find it at the library if I go look again. As far as I know pine is lighter than teak, as far as the oak Leda being the fastest, was it turned into a screw frigate? I'm not sure I've heard of either of those two, don't remember them being listed in the list of Leda class frigates in the book on frigates I read. Are you sure those two are Leda class and not just other types of frigates? The only Lacedaemon I know is a sloop, and the only Tanais I know is a 3rd rate ship of the line built in france. That could be it, it also depends on how thick it is, they have similar buoyancy, so if it was based on a teak ship and made from oak they might not have taken that into account. But yeah the Leda itself was made by the french, it was a french hebe class ship, the english captured it and based the Leda class on it. The trinc was the only teak Leda ship. What source lists the Cydnus class as Leda? As far as I knew they were commissioned to be Leda class ships, but were then modified and made into a new class of ship, "Cydnus"

Okay so just to clear things up, yes there were a good bit of Leda class frigates commissioned, many of which either, never sailed, or were cancelled or converted during the build process to either screw frigates or converted to another class of ship. (Seringapatam or Cyndnus) Many of the "Leda" frigates were actually of the Cydnus class. There were 24 Leda class frigates made (6 of which were also modified designs), and the Trincomalee is a poor representation of them. The american super frigates weren't inspired by these ships, those were already built by the time the french made the ship Leda. (Hebe class ship) The Trincomalee was a Leda class frigate, but the reason it's significant, is because its made of teak, which made it MUCH lighter (And faster..) than other Leda class frigates, and also much weaker. Oak is much heavier and more durable than teak. @Prater you bring up a good point, it does have one more mast, but it is just a 26 gun privateer, it is faster, but turns much slower than other ships we currently have. But the biggest weakness it has, is since its a small style ship, the guns are tiny. It has 24 6 pound guns, and 2 12 pound carronades. Its not meant to fight as a ship of the line. It was meant to be a ship that a man who had a letter of marque had built to go run down and sack other nation's trade ships that were lightly armed, a good small pirate vessel that was... well easily destroyed by a frigate. Now I do agree that other more significant ships should come out first, including some good trader ships, and some good research ships, and maybe some bomb ketches. But, it is a pretty significant ship itself and as we get more ships it is a good ship for the devs to consider implementing. It doesn't fit with any of the ships we currently have and its hard to class it as OP since it probably could get sunk by a brig or a snow. Its a nice pirate ship and not much else.

To be fair the Trincomalee is also in the same... boat.. pun intended, as L'Invention. Very few Leda class frigates were made, and all of them were made in 1805-1830, and many were not used until 1840+ another example of new tech that wasn't very common I don't think the devs are overly worried about exceptions from the norm because of this. Ships like this are added because it increases the number of ships to choose from if everyone sailed the same ship it would be a bit more boring. You aren't really off topic here, its mostly a discussion about if these ships would fit in. In another topic Surcof posted these plans, not sure where he got them he didn't say, anyone who can read these plans think they look about right compared to the specs listed on: http://www.bruzelius.info/Nautica/Ships/Fourmast_ships/Invention(1801).html ? There may also be plans for this ship in the book "Index of fast sailing ships: their Design and Construction, 1775-1875 by David R. MacGregor" if anyone has a copy of this book. A bit of research online led me to that book but I cannot find an online copy of it.

You saved me a lot of work finding those plans, I was planning on doing some research to find them later for the post http://forum.game-labs.net/index.php?/topic/7607-four-masted-ships/as we were discussing L'Invention over there as well. Hairy Fishnuts posted this painting of it over there yesterday.I would love to see this beautiful ship added to the game

Didn't realize this would cause an uproar, the main ship that I wanted was the four masted ship we've been referencing (L'Invention), the others such as the galleon were more so to show that ships like that did exist and weren't uncommon. I assumed the time period to be between mid 1700s to early 1800s due to Trafalgar being in 1805, This ship specifically I wanted to bring attention to was commissioned in 1799 and launched in 1801, its the early development of the next generation of ships. Something that would be interesting and add a bit to the era, not take away from it.

Good Idea, I spent a few hours researching to make sure I was posting correct information, I'd need to find plans Yeah the 3-masted schooners and 2-masted schooners were developed relatively early, took some hundred and fifty years for someone to think to put a fourth mast on there, and yeah the galleons that were in use in this period, were mostly either manila galleons, which were all three masted, or other large trading galleons, the few four masted ones were for the most part decommissioned, as with any ship type however there were still a few around, some in the hands of pirates, some in the hands of merchants that couldn't afford a newer faster ship, would be interesting to see as a very rare ship