Is Naval Action actually TOO good right now?

[Arsilon]

A bunch of us in our clan started playing this right around Steam Early Access release and have been impressed ever since with the quality of the graphics, combat mechanics, relative ship balance, etc. for a game that is "alpha".  Most of us in our group have been playing together for going on 15+ years now and have all been very surprised over the level of quality this game has even as an alpha game in Early Access.  The quality of what IS in game is MUCH better than what you see in many games these days even after general release.  It is so easy to forget it really is still in alpha and we really are helping to test and shape the game that is still very much in its development infancy.

 

Reading the forums you see thread after thread with complaints/suggestions on what is broken and what changes need to be made.  Presumably the items people are complaining about the most are the RvR related mechanics (port battle balance, nation balance, diplomacy, etc.) which from what I understand these are the most recently developed items as is the econ system.

 

Is it possible that the developers of Naval Action are victims of their own success at this point?  The game certainly doesn't FEEL like an alpha when you're playing it.  Does that raise the level of expectation on the part of the players that the systems in place should be better than they are at this point?  Should we be forcing ourselves to take a step back and say "hey look at how great the combat system is.   if we wait, the econ, rvr, [insert new mechanic here] will eventually catch up to that level if we can provide the necessary feedback and just be patient while they implement whatever changes are necessary."

 

I have also read about the price point being a barrier to many new players as is the Early Access/Alpha tag.   Both those I think are a great thing at this point.  Getting too many players in while you have these issues will cripple the game long term.  Many players that start playing now only to leave will never come back.  Some will but most will say, that game is too grindy or i don't like [X] and will move on never to return.

 

How many players are really needed to test?  How much cash do the developers need at this point to fund the development process?  That should be the balance for how many new players are needed at this point.  Would we all love to have 2000+ people at this point, yes!  But again, is it only because we have set our expectations higher than they should be for an alpha?  Are we really ready to be doing player volume related balance testing right now?  Or would that be worse for the game in the long run?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Lyric]

See your point but if the game is nowhere near being completed, and the devs shouldn't, and don't see it as acceptable or viable to take their foot of the gas at this point.

The sheer amount of fine tuning, optimising, server work that needs doing alongside the colossal amount of features and content we are all expecting is quite unfathomable.

With that in mind your post is a fantastic compliment!

[Mrdoomed]

As another old gamer with friends playing NA we are all very pleased with everything so far especially for an alpha.

For the people who complain ive stoped trying to reason with them. They want a completely different game and are trying to force the devs to change to their will. I think this game was made with old school gaming in mind cuz all old guys i know love this game.

[Lord Roberts]

The game does feel like it is in alpha, development is very slow, but only because of the small development team. This game will need more content to get more players on board and yes players are dropping but I guess that is to be expected. You have literally only been here for 2 months, I have been here for near 2 years so I have felt the slow pace of the game and hopefully the development goes a bit faster but I have no idea about that stuff, I leave it to the devs, I have trusted them for near 2 years now, I can continue to trust them.

Edited March 22, 2016 by Lord Roberts

[admin]

Fixing 20% of annoyances will solve 80% of problems. There are 3-4 things that are lacking and will be addressed during 2016

 

Lack of meaningful PVE content - which 50% of players require

Lack of politics/alliances/war and peace mechanics - which will affect 10-30% of players

Bad UI - will affect 100% of players

Events and tournaments for people who want balanced competitive content (maybe)

 

Once its done - the rest is just tuning and fixing bugs. The game will be somewhat complete and we will just have to add ships.

 

Happy players just play and don't come to forums. People who come to forums come to complain - that is why forums feel somewhat negative - but even those who complain they love parts of the game and just want to make it better. Those who hate the game just uninstall and don't even register on forums.

[Long Beard]

Nah, I don't think the state of the game at the moment will harm it.  On the contrary, I've played many early access games that were so broken I didn't persevere vowing to return when they were released. There's a few I've completely forgotten about, only reminded by the fact they are listed in my steam library. Some are still in alpha after years!

 

The fact NA is in such a good state keeps me playing.

As for the price, I've said it before but I think the devs nailed it. Because it's higher than most alpha games, people who do pay it are most likely those who are interested in the genre and are most likely to have done their homework before splashing the cash. I know I did. I watched loads of youtube videos, read many many reviews both positive and negative then bought in knowing what I was going to get.  Too low a price and you end up with impulse purchases from players who probably don't have the same interest in the genre, who haven't done their homework and end up leaving because the game was nothing like they thought it was going to be, then leaving a negative review on steam.

 

For the price of £29.99 I've had my money's worth many times over in terms of enjoyment. I've got loads of games AAA games in my library that cost me a lot more and I've barely played them.

Happy players just play and don't come to forums. People who come to forums come to complain - that is why forums feel somewhat negative - but even those who complain they love parts of the game and just want to make it better. Those who hate the game just uninstall and don't even register on forums.

 

Well not always. Forums are great when sailing on the OW. I am a happy player 

[Arsilon]

See your point but if the game is nowhere near being completed, and the devs shouldn't, and don't see it as acceptable or viable to take their foot of the gas at this point.

 

I wasn't suggesting they should be taking their foot off the gas in any way.  My point was more the perception of new players entering and the relationship that has on their expections on where the game is and how much work is left to do.

 

The game does feel like it is in alpha, development is very slow, but only because of the small development team. This game will need more content to get more players on board and yes players are dropping but I guess that is to be expected. You have literally only been here for 2 months, I have been here for near 2 years so I have felt the slow pace of the game and hopefully the development goes a bit faster but I have no idea about that stuff, I leave it to the devs, I have trusted them for near 2 years now, I can continue to trust them.

 

I applaud your level of patience.  This was primarily my point in that you are well adjusted to the pace of change and how far the game has likely come since you first were introduced.  While I also agree that the pace should pick up given they are farther along now, I was cautioning that new players may have unrealistic expectations based on the current quality level.

[Mighty Bouff]

Fixing 20% of annoyances will solve 80% of problems. There are 3-4 things that are lacking and will be addressed during 2016

 

Lack of meaningful PVE content - which 50% of players require

Lack of politics/alliances/war and peace mechanics - which will affect 10-30% of players

Bad UI - will affect 100% of players

Events and tournaments for people who want balanced competitive content (maybe)

 

Once its done - the rest is just tuning and fixing bugs. The game will be somewhat complete and we will just have to add ships.

 

Happy players just play and don't come to forums. People who come to forums come to complain - that is why forums feel somewhat negative - but even those who complain they love parts of the game and just want to make it better. Those who hate the game just uninstall and don't even register on forums.

 

What I think would be great is if you guys could share a bit more detail on what youre working on, thinking about etc. caveat it that it is not confirmed but it gives players good discussion points from which something useful to you might appear - it also keeps people engaged with the development process.

 

I'll confess a few quick hits to things like the UI and the trading economy (placing of orders etc) would be very welcome but I get why they aren't that important where there are core mechanics still to be implemented.

[Fastidius]

vocal people are generally trying to give informative feedback be it negative effects or bugs etc.

 

Even all the arguments about diplomacy offer insight as to what people require and expect of diplomacy in this format.  Many of the threads are around similar if not the same issues and if you look at suggestions for instance there is a wide amount of opinion on what should and shouldnt be available in the game.  Things such as a marker on the map for your current location is met with arguments for and against.   Finding the right middle ground can be difficult.

 

Yes the game is very good for early access in regards to general bugs and general quality level but there have been many games that got 95% of it right and 5 % wrong and that 5% was the end of the game being a hit......starwars galaxies, Starwars the old republic, some would even say that starwars battlefront that just released was not quite right content wise for a full release and DLC will hopefully fix it.    Elite Dangerous is in a similar boat as NA,  a strong support for that style of game.  a somewhat consistant history with that style of game,  sometimes the small things cause the biggest headaces...

[PrewashedYeti]

What I think would be great is if you guys could share a bit more detail on what youre working on, thinking about etc. caveat it that it is not confirmed but it gives players good discussion points from which something useful to you might appear - it also keeps people engaged with the development process.

I'll confess a few quick hits to things like the UI and the trading economy (placing of orders etc) would be very welcome but I get why they aren't that important where there are core mechanics still to be implemented.

I think the problem with telling everyone "exactly" (more detail) what is being worked on is IF it doesn't get implemented in the patch promised etc. then it makes the dev team look un-reliable and there would be a lot of complaining on the forum (see DayZ for example). They give us a general idea, see the admin post above, he tells us exactly what to expect in 2016. I think they give us a lot of information. I am actually very happy with this dev team, I think they actually listen to the player base and are making the changes that we request.

Edit: Oh, and great post Arsilon!

Edited March 22, 2016 by PrewashedYeti

[Arsilon]

Yes the game is very good for early access in regards to general bugs and general quality level but there have been many games that got 95% of it right and 5 % wrong and that 5% was the end of the game being a hit......

 

I agree 10000% on this point as well but I wonder what the devs would say.  Do they believe they are working the last 5% or are we still only at 50% of what they envision the general release game will be?

 

Are we applying a "last 5%" standard when we should only be applying the "50%" standard?

[Mrdoomed]

Re edit..... sorry fkr the attitude. Wasnt intended.

Edited March 22, 2016 by Mrdoomed

[Powderhorn]

Happy players just play and don't come to forums. People who come to forums come to complain - that is why forums feel somewhat negative - but even those who complain they love parts of the game and just want to make it better. Those who hate the game just uninstall and don't even register on forums.

 

With a dual monitor setup, the two are not mutually exclusive

[Ned Loe]

Here is my quick view on Naval Action today:

 

Game Graphics

 

-Game graphics look great. Skies are beautiful and ocean is perfect. No need any work here.

-Land got great improvement, but trees still look ugly. (Maybe it's just me)

-Ships are very detailed, but could be better. (We don't feel wind on sails, gun ports stay open all the time, ship camera should be adjustable similar to GW2 zoom in/out. In battles it's not enough to see what is happening around you with camera locked in that close to a ship. More crew on ship would be nice. (Only visible on player ship, not any other.)

-Ports need more randomization and new buildings. Smoke and stationary fishing boats that go in and out of port (passive). Currently there is no life around Ports. (Birds, Jumping whale from time to time on OS, active volcanoes).

 

In general it's somewhat 80% complete. Good job!

 

PvE content and Gold

 

Naval Action has no loot items at all. This makes game little boring and disappointing for those who love to Fleet or even pvp. Rewarding players with random loot and adding content attached to that loot is a must. Players spend 40 minutes fighting and all they get is XP and Gold. What about treasures? Gold and silver goblets! All Age of Sail fans love to see treasures in their cargo hold. In my opinion this is very important and needs to be added. 

 

So much gold, but nothing to spend it on. Ok we have ships and mods, well that's it. NA needs more content, so players can spend gold on items like ship customization, Private Port customization, Captain Cabin etc...

 

Treasure hunt missions, events, Epic Events. We need them asap! Fleets becoming a boredom and players leave game because there is nothing else to do for PvE people. 

 

In general NA lacks all these goodies. Remember Potbs loot and how many people loved to cap it, sell it, trade it or just store it and show others how rich they are. Just with these small features you will secure a good amount of players who will stay and play. I hope this will be added in a short period of time. 

 

PvP

 

It's all about zerg. No matter how many guys you can put together if you don't have enough numbers you will get killed. Don't wan't to play with zerg ok get fast ships and gank people. Game lack 1vs1 duels and Training Missions for same nations. Better rewards and bounties. Leader boards and stats are not available in NA yet. 

 

My sugestion - keep Port battle numbers as they are and limit OS pvp battles to 6vs6 only. This will make sure you can add more content in these instances. 

Sailing

 

Ship mechanics are very good and only few minor things will need to be fixed. With time devs will tune ships to perfection, Nothing to add here, great job!

 

 

Conquest

 

Conquest is in a very early stage of development and needs many additions and improvements in order to work. Right now for me it is simply broken. I know devs working on improving it. All we can do now is wait, too early for review. 

 

Conclusion, Naval Action looks great, ships are beautiful and it's fun to sail them. Unfortunately ugly UI and lack of content and poor Conquest system is turning many new players away from this beautiful game. Only time will tell what new content NA developers will bring to us. 

[Capt. Rice]

Fixing 20% of annoyances will solve 80% of problems. There are 3-4 things that are lacking and will be addressed during 2016

 

Lack of meaningful PVE content - which 50% of players require

Lack of politics/alliances/war and peace mechanics - which will affect 10-30% of players

Bad UI - will affect 100% of players

Events and tournaments for people who want balanced competitive content (maybe)

 

Once its done - the rest is just tuning and fixing bugs. The game will be somewhat complete and we will just have to add ships.

 

Happy players just play and don't come to forums. People who come to forums come to complain - that is why forums feel somewhat negative - but even those who complain they love parts of the game and just want to make it better. Those who hate the game just uninstall and don't even register on forums.

 

 

Aww i come to the forums to have a fun time....and check the dev logs....like to stay ahead of the news in a way.

[KrakkenSmacken]

Fixing 20% of annoyances will solve 80% of problems. There are 3-4 things that are lacking and will be addressed during 2016

 

Lack of meaningful PVE content - which 50% of players require

Lack of politics/alliances/war and peace mechanics - which will affect 10-30% of players

Bad UI - will affect 100% of players

Events and tournaments for people who want balanced competitive content (maybe)

 

Once its done - the rest is just tuning and fixing bugs. The game will be somewhat complete and we will just have to add ships.

 

Happy players just play and don't come to forums. People who come to forums come to complain - that is why forums feel somewhat negative - but even those who complain they love parts of the game and just want to make it better. Those who hate the game just uninstall and don't even register on forums.

 

And some of us narcissists think we know a thing or two and have to help you scalawags come up with ideas.  

 

Less of us are right about that than not however.  Doesn't stop us from climbing on a soap box with the megaphone you sorta handed us.

[Mrdoomed]

Fixing 20% of annoyances will solve 80% of problems. There are 3-4 things that are lacking and will be addressed during 2016

Lack of meaningful PVE content - which 50% of players require

Lack of politics/alliances/war and peace mechanics - which will affect 10-30% of players

Bad UI - will affect 100% of players

Events and tournaments for people who want balanced competitive content (maybe)

Once its done - the rest is just tuning and fixing bugs. The game will be somewhat complete and we will just have to add ships.

Happy players just play and don't come to forums. People who come to forums come to complain - that is why forums feel somewhat negative - but even those who complain they love parts of the game and just want to make it better. Those who hate the game just uninstall and don't even register on forums.

Any chance we will get a teaser soon on possible ideas you have or new things to come ? I realize its probably not smart because people will take it as a gaurentee but some of us know its just alpha.

[Tennessee88]

Your 2 years mean absolutely zero. You played sea trials....woopidy do. Ive played OW since the first day i could.

That OW is were allmost all the troubled people have with the game. And i still agree with OP. We will all get there together and this is a great start of a very good game.

 

Not meaning to play white knight here, but this response seems entirely unnecessary and hostile for something you both essentially agree on. 

[Mighty Bouff]

I think the problem with telling everyone "exactly" (more detail) what is being worked on is IF it doesn't get implemented in the patch promised etc. then it makes the dev team look un-reliable and there would be a lot of complaining on the forum (see DayZ for example). They give us a general idea, see the admin post above, he tells us exactly what to expect in 2016. I think they give us a lot of information. I am actually very happy with this dev team, I think they actually listen to the player base and are making the changes that we request.

Edit: Oh, and great post Arsilon!

 

If people can't understand that if the devs caveat it with "this is what we are thinking about" (as they have done in some posts - eg changes to crew) then thats fine. It gives colour to their thought process and potential direction. Generally players here on the forums are good at not flaming the devs, but give their views on changes etc.

[Heibges]

Right now the low pop on PVP2 is kind of useful.

 

They can ensure that game systems work in both high and low pop situations.

[mouse of war]

Fixing 20% of annoyances will solve 80% of problems. There are 3-4 things that are lacking and will be addressed during 2016

 

Lack of meaningful PVE content - which 50% of players require

Lack of politics/alliances/war and peace mechanics - which will affect 10-30% of players

Bad UI - will affect 100% of players

Events and tournaments for people who want balanced competitive content (maybe)

 

Once its done - the rest is just tuning and fixing bugs. The game will be somewhat complete and we will just have to add ships.

 

Happy players just play and don't come to forums. People who come to forums come to complain - that is why forums feel somewhat negative - but even those who complain they love parts of the game and just want to make it better. Those who hate the game just uninstall and don't even register on forums.

 

I'm worried - you failed to say 'Lack of land in battles' - please, please don't drop this from the list. I think I'm going to cry!

[Mrdoomed]

Not meaning to play white knight here, but this response seems entirely unnecessary and hostile for something you both essentially agree on.

Youre right. I tried to edit and soften it after i read it back but perhaps it wasnt enough. I just dont care for elitist attitude of i played longer amd my op is best whem the game is in alpha and changes and is totally different now.

Thanks Sir Knight

[Bert Beard]

Right now the low pop on PVP2 is kind of useful.

 

They can ensure that game systems work in both high and low pop situations.

True, But I don't like that there's such a big population difference between pvp1 and pvp2, why do so many have to follow the crowd.

We should keep 2 pvp servers but there should be a way to encourage people to go to the server with the lower population.

 

Back to the OP.

The Developers have done a beautiful job with Naval Action,  for an Alpa or even an early Beta release it is impressive.

It's better than I expected.

And I think most are here in the forums to learn or help make this great game better.........I know I am.

Edited March 22, 2016 by Bert Beard

[Capt. Rice]

True, But I don't like that there's such a big population difference between pvp1 and pvp2, why do so many have to follow the crowd.

We should keep 2 pvp servers but there should be a way to encourage people to go to the server with the lower population.

 

Back to the OP.

The Developers have done a beautiful job with Naval Action,  for an Alpa or even an early Beta release it is impressive.

It's better than I expected.

And I think most are here in the forums to learn or help make this great game better.........I know I am.

most but there are a good but there are a few out there that will troll and ruin NA for the rest.

[Roche Brasiliano]

Fixing 20% of annoyances will solve 80% of problems. There are 3-4 things that are lacking and will be addressed during 2016

 

Lack of meaningful PVE content - which 50% of players require

Lack of politics/alliances/war and peace mechanics - which will affect 10-30% of players

Bad UI - will affect 100% of players

Events and tournaments for people who want balanced competitive content (maybe)

 

Once its done - the rest is just tuning and fixing bugs. The game will be somewhat complete and we will just have to add ships.

 

Happy players just play and don't come to forums. People who come to forums come to complain - that is why forums feel somewhat negative - but even those who complain they love parts of the game and just want to make it better. Those who hate the game just uninstall and don't even register on forums.

To be perfect, this game need to implement exploration roles (giving XP for that) and fine tunning the trading system.

When i say exploration roles, i mean to let the player choose that way of play style, focused in searching hiden places, sunked ships, rare fauna and flora, small native ports that not showed on the map and geting gold and xp for it. Also, will be interesting if capitains could trade their discoveries with other players. By example, using the same methods of grade notes, you can trade specific maps for certain areas, where you can find some rare goods that only can be trade with the native population, or you can sell new species to NPC scentific and exploration society earning XP for it.

For trading, can be implemented a specific trading role, and the player focused on that, can be enter any ports (national, free or neutral).

Spy ships, based in some kind of XP or skill of player maybe will be nice to see too.  For example, the spy ship can enter enemy port and steal information like resorces stocks or other usefull intel. Sure, the taged port will have the oportunity to implement counter mesures to prevent that.

 

Im sure that nothing i said is new and was mentioned before. I only trying to enphasize other aspects that can be explored by developers team and possible can bring more players. Judging by my own experience and preferences, i will be very happy to jump from a battle focused playstyle for a exploration/trader one. In fact, sometimes i fell very bored with the actual options: buy ships/craft ships; to search resources in distant ports and getting no XP for that, to bring that resources to craft more ships; to put that ships in battle ( and eventually losing some) and getting back to start that process again...

 

Sorry for my bad english and grammar mistakes; and forgive me if i said something dumb, but it is just how i see the things right now.