Casus Belli against Britain

[Johny Reb]

I am gonna start here with multiple posts:

When i leaded majority of usa fleets i was all about finish the spanish until i reduce them to the capital, than the political leaders of usa decided to offer peace to spanish twice so we stopped for a week, spanish  always refused  becouse they where divided internaly,so i continued to remove them from gulf of mexico, until usa owned all up to tumbado.    Then i formed up my clan, at that point spanish where reduced to pretty much 10 ports. and Brit came to finish them off?  cause spain probably not where able to cut a deal with them for same reason they not where able to accept peace terms with usa.

For those that are confused about USA internal politics let me start by saying....

 

Vicious never, ever, ever lead a majority of US fleets. Be skeptical about everything that comes out of his mouth. He wasn't in the decision making group, he didn't guide any discussion, he didn't do any of the negotiations with any other group, he didn't reach out to other USA clans to get them involved. He wants people to believe he is more important then he is or was. He led maybe a dozen, if that, of the port battles, almost all were undefended ports that the Spanish were unable to attend due to time zones. He organized almost none of those port battles. He even refused to go to one because he had all his gold mods on a 1 dura ship and didn't want to risk them.

 

I laugh at him now. Ha ha. for trying to take credit for the entire national strategy through Tumbado while for most of that time he was off damage farming his way to Commodore and making millions selling his ships to the over inflated economy of the Pirates.

[Johny Reb]

Whilst the nation may not be fully united on the aggressive stance taken by some US clans, it is in the US interest to take back the ports in Yucatan/Mexico now to prevent the Brits having a foothold close to Louisiana/Florida. It makes no sense to allow a British presence continue here when all that will happen when Britain gets a break from current hostilities is that she will renew her battle with the US. The congress/council are naïve to think the Brits will not attack US territories in the future and the buffer zone being created by Vicious and others will be crucial to any diplomatic efforts or if necessary hostilities against the zerg. People may not like it but it makes complete strategic sense to take back these ports now while the zerg is busy on other fronts. All nations should make hay while the sun is shining, happy harvest all.

A lot of diplomatic discussion takes place in private. The Brits had originally agreed to a line between west Cuba and the northeastern Yucatan as a port agreement between us the brits and the Spanish. The agreement between the Spanish and the Brits broke down immediately. The Brits began to transgress that agreed upon line. When they did so they told us why, their war with Spain, that it was not meant as aggression against the US, and most importantly that they "could give us back the ports." They were only taking them to wage their war but without a desire for permanent settlement.

At that time we told them to hold onto the ports till after the war as we did not want to appear as if we were using the war to gain against Spain which at that point and even now is still secure.

Eventually we talked about those ports after they had ran the Spanish out of the Gulf. The initial response was that they would like to create a new line around Victoria or one of those ports. I can't remember which one. We told them that the US will not abide the Brits in the gulf for long. I was then told that the Brits had spent a lot of energy and resources taking those ports and would be hard to convince them to turn them over but that maybe over time something could be worked out.

We have been approached with a plan to return those ports last week.

 

From a us point of view, their is a transgression of the original lines drawn. That has been mostly rectified with their recent offer.

 

Other than Caldwell's proclaimed war against us at the beginning of the map, the Brits never waged war on us until we moved to the Tumbado area and took the upper Yucatan. We then had some port battles. Won some lost some. The Brits largest move was on the night of the three pronged attack in which they took the Yucatan from us while the Dons pushed across Cuba and the Gulf and the Pirates pushed the Bahamas, the keys and lower eastern Florida.

 

I to believe that Britain is a threat and always will be simply because of its numbers but the elephant in the room are the Pirates. Probably now the largest faction in the game or close to it, they WILL attack us when the war with Britain is finished, if not before. I feel confident in this because they have a close relationship with the Danes so they are not likely to attack them, the Brits will be crushed, the Spanish are already crushed and don't pose much of a challenge as is. Who else do they have to attack? There is only one direction to go.

 

Vicious may pat himself on the back for creating a buffer zone but it is a buffer zone that has already been offered to us. He may be right in saying that the British offer is hollow since they don't have the power atm to defend it but it is neither something for him to brag about. He is simply doing the dirty work to take what they choose not to defend and have already offered to us for free.

[Johny Reb]

I have spoken with both the US council and Stars and Stripes in the past couple of weeks.

I can firmly say that Stars and Stripes are a much more respectable lot. The council seems to think more of themselves than they actually are and the real power in America currently sits with Vicious and his guild.- Simply put... they are more in favor of fighting British then the council. We would rather keep our eye on you. War with the Brits for any reason was unnecessary because we were already in talk about the ports in contention. So of course they were a "much more respectable lot." You guys were in agreement on everything and you have no contact.

When the Council asked US to talks last week-we asked you to talks simply because we are requested to by the Danes not because we were looking to get into the war. You could call it a fact finding discussion. to see if they could make a deal with us to both attack the British they were rude, arrogant and did nothing but boast about their immense strengh.I don't understand this analysis other than to simply make us look bad. We simply asked for a buffer zone in the northern bahamas. If that is rude then we were rude. They demanded 8 ports from the Pirates so that they could help us against the Brits. We refused.-In negotiations, it is common to ask for more than what you actually are willing to settle on. They simply said No. We asked for a counter proposal and they asked for our two remaining ports. Not an honest counter proposal in my opinion. They did eventually offer a counter proposal but it was not worth it to us so we said no. I don't know when we were rude or dis respectable. I have had some contact with every nation on the map. They can decide how rude or not I have been.

[Lord Vicious]

I am gonna start here with multiple posts:

For those that are confused about USA internal politics let me start by saying....

 

Vicious never, ever, ever lead a majority of US fleets. Be skeptical about everything that comes out of his mouth. He wasn't in the decision making group, he didn't guide any discussion, he didn't do any of the negotiations with any other group, he didn't reach out to other USA clans to get them involved. He wants people to believe he is more important then he is or was. He led maybe a dozen, if that, of the port battles, almost all were undefended ports that the Spanish were unable to attend due to time zones. He organized almost none of those port battles. He even refused to go to one because he had all his gold mods on a 1 dura ship and didn't want to risk them.

 

I laugh at him now. Ha ha. for trying to take credit for the entire national strategy through Tumbado while for most of that time he was off damage farming his way to Commodore and making millions selling his ships to the over inflated economy of the Pirates.

 

 

Cool story try tell it 100 times maybe it become true, in 1 month you took 2 ports since i left and majority of pvpers left also 

 

 

as i told to the brits, i thx them to gift us the gulf of mexico after we took 70% of it   and btw i not sit pat myself in the back, becouse i not spend 90% of my time talking, i play, and act, and i honor my words when i do deal with other clans/nation.  Thats why i was in the last 12 port conquest and i am rear admiral while "someone" still in a frig .

 

But keep talking becouse thats your biggest skill, TALK. , but ppl follow acts not words, you leaded 0 port battles and barely where in 30% of the 40 ports we have taken when i was in tf.

 

What make you rageful now is that i get more credits than you, even on dealing with other nations becouse i honor my dealing while you demand stuff from a weak position, still waiting to see the famous 25 first rate you told to the pirates you have. 

 

You think you are good in politics but you are not, actually you are pretty bad, as well bad at running a pvp clan and thats why tf lost soo much ground in less than a month. 

Edited March 22, 2016 by Lord Vicious

[Johny Reb]

I think your perception is wrong the american council is not in lead of the nation, is a conglomerate of some clans but not all of them, so going against it, or have a different strategy/politics is by no means going against the nation itself, in fact i believe that my clan is right now doing a service to the nation taking all this ports as buffer zone.

 

Your judgement is a clear conflict of interest you like only usa clans that not harm you, wich is very convenient  and if y may add, very obvious to anyone.  Since you never deal with my clan or me yet you are very aggressive, have you ever tryed to talk with us? nope. 

 

 

We informed the council about our strategy (purely as good relationship between fellow americans not becouse we needed their permission or blessing)  and they told us that since we are an indipendent clan, we can do what we want, until and if we join the council, wich is in talking btw 

The American Council like councils of other nations is simply an organization designed for the clans of the nation to come together and create national policy as a unified front. This is best for the nation as a whole and it provides clans of both large and small caliber to join and influence the decisions. It is about mutual respect, common goals, and a national direction. All clans have been invited that we know of. There are new clans coming in from pvp2 everyday and they are invited to come talk with us as well.

 

It is impossible for one conglomeration to speak for every single player in the nation. The point of the council is to get the majority of the represented players together and on the same page and being a part of the decision making. We can not force a player or another clan to honor the decisions made by the majority nor do we want to. That is not the point. But it does show character of a clan that works against the majority just because they can or as a way to thumb their nose at everyone.

 

STARS was a blacklisted clan by the council ever since the 3 nation push for actions in battle that pissed everyone off. They have recently sought inclusion in the council and for the sake of the nation's unity and the purpose of the council, it is truly being taken into consideration. I will not speak on STARS anymore than that until a decision has been made. I only say that STARS exclusion up to this point has been due to their actions and our extensive experience with their leader. If we come to believe that the risk of including them is less than the risk of being divided then we will vote them in.

[Jager]

I have spoken with both the US council and Stars and Stripes in the past couple of weeks.

I can firmly say that Stars and Stripes are a much more respectable lot. The council seems to think more of themselves than they actually are and the real power in America currently sits with Vicious and his guild.

When the Council asked US to talks last week to see if they could make a deal with us to both attack the British they were rude, arrogant and did nothing but boast about their immense strengh. They demanded 8 ports from the Pirates so that they could help us against the Brits. We refused.

Whenever I have spoken to Lord Vicious it has been a pleasent experience and has not involved any rubbish.

 

Wait Kutai you tried to get a 5th nation to declare war against 1 sole nation, shame on you that you think you need 5 nations or more to kill 1 nation, its a shame already that you need 4 in order to get us to our current point. I'm not trying to brag but from British point of view its like wow 4 nations and they still can't get us down to one port like they could with others. Anyway keep them good fights coming as we'll be waiting.

 

 Can Wang, or one of the Danish guys, or Steel say the members he has worked with are rude, arrogant, etc?

 

Even though i have not spoke with you as much as Wang or the others have, when i was apart of that first meeting about the treaty that myself, wang and gazika from spain in, you guys were quite friendly and not rude or arrogant at all.

[CptEdwardKenway]

I think your perception is wrong the american council is not in lead of the nation, is a conglomerate of some clans but not all of them, so going against it, or have a different strategy/politics is by no means going against the nation itself, in fact i believe that my clan is right now doing a service to the nation taking all this ports as buffer zone.

 

Your judgement is a clear conflict of interest you like only usa clans that not harm you, wich is very convenient  and if y may add, very obvious to anyone.  Since you never deal with my clan or me yet you are very aggressive, have you ever tryed to talk with us? nope. 

 

 

We informed the council about our strategy (purely as good relationship between fellow americans not becouse we needed their permission or blessing)  and they told us that since we are an indipendent clan, we can do what we want, until and if we join the council, wich is in talking btw

Since we had talks with US council but the fact that YOU are not a part of this council makes me doubt you ever tried to talk to anyone. You just attacked out of nowhere.

Oh and those ports originally belongs to spain. Not to you and not to the brits.

And if there is no defence what do you call it? Getting it by force? Great news for you: you need ships to cap a port. What a surprise.

Oh and btw you didn't reduce spain down to 10 ports. They regained about 30 before they had only those 5.

But all your comments proofs your are completely out of your mind.

[Captain Alexander]

 

STARS was a blacklisted clan by the council ever since the 3 nation push for actions in battle that pissed everyone off. They have recently sought inclusion in the council and for the sake of the nation's unity and the purpose of the council, it is truly being taken into consideration.

 

That explains a lot.  Pirates trying to get the 5th nation to go against British because they are so ''devil''.  Pathetic and very silly

Edited March 22, 2016 by Captain Alexander

[CptEdwardKenway]

That explains a lot.  Pirates trying to get the 5th nation to go against British because they are so ''devil''.  Pathetic and very silly

It's funny how two nations are talking every other into war or gave them the order to do so but the brits are evil.

[CptEdwardKenway]

Slowly I get angry. The Danish Swedish war was a hard fight and finally on one day they take all our 7 ports. OK we were hard beaten but they can't beat us total because we are 200-300 players, all in Gustavia and want fight them. And we are 5 mins from their capital. They talk to us and offer peace and an agreement. Thats all and if you more talk about we are on our knees in front of the Danes, you will push us in an alliance with them. You can affront the Danes, but please don't affront us or the France in the same moment. It's hard to fight so many nations but be carefully to push all nations in this war. Greetings.

We push nobody it's your decision. Don't act like that and we won't talk like that. As a former allied we were always respectful. It makes ME angry why you are getting angry about the brits. If you feel the need to allie with the mercyful danes then do so and stop talking. Seriously I start giving a damn about all this.

I always thought we were friends but you don't sound like one.

[Lord Vicious]

The American Council like councils of other nations is simply an organization designed for the clans of the nation to come together and create national policy as a unified front. This is best for the nation as a whole and it provides clans of both large and small caliber to join and influence the decisions. It is about mutual respect, common goals, and a national direction. All clans have been invited that we know of. There are new clans coming in from pvp2 everyday and they are invited to come talk with us as well.

 

It is impossible for one conglomeration to speak for every single player in the nation. The point of the council is to get the majority of the represented players together and on the same page and being a part of the decision making. We can not force a player or another clan to honor the decisions made by the majority nor do we want to. That is not the point. But it does show character of a clan that works against the majority just because they can or as a way to thumb their nose at everyone.

 

STARS was a blacklisted clan by the council ever since the 3 nation push for actions in battle that pissed everyone off. They have recently sought inclusion in the council and for the sake of the nation's unity and the purpose of the council, it is truly being taken into consideration. I will not speak on STARS anymore than that until a decision has been made. I only say that STARS exclusion up to this point has been due to their actions and our extensive experience with their leader. If we come to believe that the risk of including them is less than the risk of being divided then we will vote them in.

 

 

I  smell fear 

Edited March 22, 2016 by Lord Vicious

[Jonathan Arlington]

I smell fear

Any time I read something from you I am more and more sure that you are not in the position to tell us whether we are good in diplomacy or not. Because every word you spite to us proved you wrong. I declaire to ignore your loud noises and prefer to talk to the US Council. They proved to behave like Gentlemen. You Sir are just wasting our time.

Edited March 22, 2016 by Jonathan Arlington

[Kutai]

That explains a lot. Pirates trying to get the 5th nation to go against British because they are so ''devil''. Pathetic and very silly

Once more. I think you will find it was the USN who approached us. It was also the Pirates who turned down their ridiculous offer and simply said if you want to fight the British then do so. We were not on the mind for making 'deals'. When I get on later I will provide the screen shot. Edited March 22, 2016 by Kutai

[CptEdwardKenway]

Once more. I think you will find it was the USN who approached us. It was also the Pirates who turned down their ridiculous offer and simply said if you want to fight the British then do so. We were not on the mind for making 'deals'. When I get on later I will provide the screen shot.

Actually it seems like you already pushed the war between brits and spaniards. I wonder what the deal was. Giving them south cuba back? Or north cuba?

Right after Misteriosa several players joined the pirate party. I guess you have some screenshots of this too.

Edited March 22, 2016 by CptEdwardKenway

[Kutai]

Actually it seems like you already pushed the war between brits and spaniards. I wonder what the deal was. Giving them south cuba back? Or north cuba?

Right after Misteriosa several players joined the pirate party. I guess you have some screenshots of this too.

No mistery that we have been working with the Spanish to help them regain a foot hold so that they can get back into the game. Not sure what your issue is here?

Brits wanted to roll Spain down to a single port if they could and you wonder why now they fight back?

Think maybe its time the Brits stopped trying to blame everyone else for the mess they have gotten themselves into and start looking at their own flaws. Everyone does not just get up one day and decide to attack a random Nation.

The British have time after time thrown their weight around. It was not so long ago that they were allied with or had pacts with most the server. So I think it is a little bit hypocrytical to now be pointing the finger at anyone else who decides to work together.

Edited March 22, 2016 by Kutai

[Alvar Fañez de Minaya]

Actually it seems like you already pushed the war between brits and spaniards. I wonder what the deal was. Giving them south cuba back? Or north cuba?

Right after Misteriosa several players joined the pirate party. I guess you have some screenshots of this too.

 

Sorry, but Spain has enough reasons to be at war with the redcoats until the end of the game ..........

We don't need to have relationship with pirates or another faction in the game for it. To have a common enemy unites us, I will not say no..

 

But what the British have done with Spanin gives us enough reasons to sink all English ship with which we stumble anywhere map. And have fun doing it....

[Blackout]

I  smell fear 

 

Sabre rattle all you want mate, just letting you know it doesn't make you come across as a strong leader like you seem to think it does.

 

The impression I get from your posts is that you are nursing a desperate need to feel important and relevant, and your disagreement with the rest of the US clans seems to stem directly from your wounded ego rather than any strategic objective.

[Bougainville]

And to think this all began with an Italian sailing west....

 

 

EDIT: Hey mods, since you removed the message above, mine makes no sense anymore. Remove as well.

Edited March 22, 2016 by Bougainville

[Lord Vicious]

Like with fts,(where the british team come to protect LOL a pirate clan only becouse is not attacking them ) brits come to damage control, and protect us clans that are inclined to bow on them, anyone that not  serve the brit purpose is an enemy, so they inclined to line them up even if they info they have come only from  1 source, the source that serve their purpose.

 

How convenient, you should be less loud to proof everybody so openly how you protect who serve your interests, you need to much more smart  and subtle  instead showing it in a so evident form.

 

You never talked with me or my clan, yet you soo negative towards us purely becouse you prefer dealing with the council since  is very inclined to accept any brit imposition. becouse they like to roleplay and talk instead act in game, this is their way to feel rilevant.

 

2 clan of 200+ ppl combined who cant field 3 first rate combined, of course they need to make deals with you becouse in the field they cant contest the brit.  so any agreement is fine for not fight you back.

 

I prefer fight AND LOSE  if necessary, ship can be rebuild, they are not made for collect dust , still better than simply bow in a moment where brit is in difficoulty so is strategically a good thing hit them, becouse i know that the moment they will be free they will attack usa again betrayng every agreement as in the past. 

 

Any politics not supported by a real strenght in game, have no value

 

btw talking with one of your leader was a good talking he is reasonable and understand the situation better then usa council and other brits in general  and we agreed that gulf of mexico will return to us and we settle the border line on contoy.  As long brit will honor such agreement we gonna do the same

Edited March 22, 2016 by Lord Vicious

[Lord Vicious]

Sabre rattle all you want mate, just letting you know it doesn't make you come across as a strong leader like you seem to think it does.

 

The impression I get from your posts is that you are nursing a desperate need to feel important and relevant, and your disagreement with the rest of the US clans seems to stem directly from your wounded ego rather than any strategic objective.

My dear friend for have a disagreement, you must have an agreement, and we dont. we do wtf we want. end of story. we simply no care of ppl who spend more time talking than playng.

 

Is a very different way to approach the game, or better, we play the game we not talk about for weeks. 

 

As long we still free and indipendent we do what benefits more our clan and our fun, and no british flamer or american council gonna stop this.  Actually more we get contested more we are happy about what we do, becouse if we are irrilevant why spend soo much time around us?  ignore us..   or you cant....  becouse afterall we are not that irrilevant ?

Edited March 22, 2016 by Lord Vicious

[Vernon Merrill]

I would like to apologize in public for the post that was removed. It was a failed attempt at humor and was in bad taste. Player nationality has NO BEARING upon faction member loyalty. As many of my clan-mates are of German origin, I should not have made such a clumsy attempt. Again, please accept my public apology.

I am, etc., etc...

Matthew

[lobogris]

Can you see my fangs Lord Vicius?

[Charles Caldwell]

I would like to apologize in public for the post that was removed. It was a failed attempt at humor and was in bad taste. Player nationality has NO BEARING upon faction member loyalty. As many of my clan-mates are of German origin, I should not have made such a clumsy attempt. Again, please accept my public apology.

I am, etc., etc...

Matthew

 

Nice sir, salute!

 

+1

[Jonathan Arlington]

Like with fts,(where the british team come to protect LOL a pirate clan only becouse is not attacking them ) brits come to damage control, and protect us clans that are inclined to bow on them, anyone that not serve the brit purpose is an enemy, so they inclined to line them up even if they info they have come only from 1 source, the source that serve their purpose.

How convenient, you should be less loud to proof everybody so openly how you protect who serve your interests, you need to much more smart and subtle instead showing it in a so evident form.

You never talked with me or my clan, yet you soo negative towards us purely becouse you prefer dealing with the council since is very inclined to accept any brit imposition. becouse they like to roleplay and talk instead act in game, this is their way to feel rilevant.

2 clan of 200+ ppl combined who cant field 3 first rate combined, of course they need to make deals with you becouse in the field they cant contest the brit. so any agreement is fine for not fight you back.

I prefer fight AND LOSE if necessary, ship can be rebuild, they are not made for collect dust , still better than simply bow in a moment where brit is in difficoulty so is strategically a good thing hit them, becouse i know that the moment they will be free they will attack usa again betrayng every agreement as in the past.

Any politics not supported by a real strenght in game, have no value

btw talking with one of your leader was a good talking he is reasonable and understand the situation better then usa council and other brits in general and we agreed that gulf of mexico will return to us and we settle the border line on contoy. As long brit will honor such agreement we gonna do the same

Here we go. This is a respectable word. This is something I can agree within because now we are talking like Gentlemen. Best regards, Sir. Best regards.

I personally will honour this border.

[Johny Reb]

Once more. I think you will find it was the USN who approached us. It was also the Pirates who turned down their ridiculous offer and simply said if you want to fight the British then do so. We were not on the mind for making 'deals'. When I get on later I will provide the screen shot.

There is no need to post your proof Kutai. I will acknowledge your statements as true, accept for the ridiculous offer part.

 

We did call on the pirates this time. They did not come to us. They came to us a couple weeks ago and we requested the same agreement and was promptly turned down. But this time we went to them. To be clear though, we had no intention to do so. The Danes, our allies, asked us to join in a war against the Brits with them, as would be expected from an ally. We were not in a position to consider this offer with our ongoing war with the pirates. It was suggested that we talk to the Pirates and that they may be willing to come to an agreement. For us to feel secure against the pirates, it would require that we had some buffer ports in the upper Bahamas. They declined and seemed uninterested in negotiating anything. That is their choice. We've gone and taken most of the ports we were wanting in the "negotiations" anyways.