Patch 9.65 - Crew and resource production

[KrakkenSmacken]

OK, so we need option "10" in the hotbar... "Kedge".

How many crew would be appropriate? :-)

 

One, as long as its Michael Phelps.

[Salty Dog.]

OK, so we need option "10" in the hotbar... "Kedge".

How many crew would be appropriate? :-)

 

not sure we should be able to Kedge.  The process took a long time, load the kedge in a boat, row out to location, drop the kedge, pull the ship towards the kedge.

Edited March 16, 2016 by Sea Daddy

[ciccseven]

Hey Sailors,

 

First let me say I am not great at this game, though I have been here since testing. I am the type of player who, does not have a lot of time to play, never gets really good at playing, but enjoys it immensely and will be at this for as long as there are people on the servers.

 

I have a question regarding the last patch from a week ago.

 

1. I had just gotten the hang of fighting, in battle mode, with cannon reload times, etc. Now the cannons load at a numbered interval, which is fine, but different. Crew is allocated to different tasks (ie: Sails, Gunnery, Repair, etc.) All this detail seems to complicate actions but doesn't add to the effectiveness of game-play. I may need to get use to it, but I was wondering what am I missing? Why the change? Please have mercy with your answer.

 

2. In Battle Mode, on Missions, Fighting AI, since the patch, I have notice that the AI are more reckless, and almost suicidal. given the opportunity they will opt to ram you. and on larger battles, Second and First Lieutenant where I am fighting Snows and Brigs, they even turn their ships into me, or slow down as to make me ram them. The nature of the AI has changed. Is this changed base on some kind of realism or an anomaly in AI?

 

These are not complains, I just want to see if anyone else has noticed them, or do I need to change my approach to game-play.

 

Thanks

[Enraged Ewok]

1. I had just gotten the hang of fighting, in battle mode, with cannon reload times, etc. Now the cannons load at a numbered interval, which is fine, but different. Crew is allocated to different tasks (ie: Sails, Gunnery, Repair, etc.) All this detail seems to complicate actions but doesn't add to the effectiveness of game-play. I may need to get use to it, but I was wondering what am I missing? Why the change? Please have mercy with your answer.

 

 

The problem with the previous system was that it was an all-or-nothing affair, where despite having a full crew you still incurred penalties to gunnery while in sailing, couldn't patch leaks or man pumps without losing all boarding prep, and so on. The new system now usually allows you to fuily man one broadside (even undercrewed, depending on gun choice) without penalizing your sailing or ability to plug leaks. Likewise, you can now plug leaks without losing boarding prep. The short version is simply that the new system more accurately represents reality, and also does not punish a player nearly as hard for undercrewing.

 

 

2. In Battle Mode, on Missions, Fighting AI, since the patch, I have notice that the AI are more reckless, and almost suicidal. given the opportunity they will opt to ram you. and on larger battles, Second and First Lieutenant where I am fighting Snows and Brigs, they even turn their ships into me, or slow down as to make me ram them. The nature of the AI has changed. Is this changed base on some kind of realism or an anomaly in AI?

 

I've noticed they run and kite far more, and also occasionally get stuck in irons for hilariously long times, and occasionally forget to reallocate crew to guns from boarding, but not much more than that.

[ciccseven]

The problem with the previous system was that it was an all-or-nothing affair, where despite having a full crew you still incurred penalties to gunnery while in sailing, couldn't patch leaks or man pumps without losing all boarding prep, and so on. The new system now usually allows you to fuily man one broadside (even undercrewed, depending on gun choice) without penalizing your sailing or ability to plug leaks. Likewise, you can now plug leaks without losing boarding prep. The short version is simply that the new system more accurately represents reality, and also does not punish a player nearly as hard for undercrewing.

 

 

 

I've noticed they run and kite far more, and also occasionally get stuck in irons for hilariously long times, and occasionally forget to reallocate crew to guns from boarding, but not much more than that.

 

Yes, that too. I have noticed that. also I have noticed ME getting stuck in Irons too.......Damn Wind!

[DeRuyter]

In fairness Kedging is a method to reposition a ship without sailing.  So a ship could be turned (or moved) using a kedge.  

 

In the battle of Pittsburg The ships were anchored in line from north to south in the order Eagle, Saratoga, Ticonderoga and Preble. They all had both bow and stern anchors, with "springs" attached to the anchor cables to allow the ships to be slewed through a wide arc. Macdonough also laid out extra kedge anchors from the quarters of his flagship Saratoga, which would allow him to spin the ship completely around. 

 

Nice example - but FYI it is Plattsburgh - on Lake Champlain in NY. This is a good example of a port battle defense where the defeat of the attacking fleet caused the withdrawal of the land invasion force. (Sorry for going OT).

[ObiQuiet]

I think more intelligence is needed in the crew allocation. I don't mind the simple model so much, but the simplistic effect of slowing down sail handling and gun fire while boarding is a problem.

During a close chase with boarders at the ready, I should be able to have sufficient crew to fire the bow chasers with no reload penalty.

Likewise, I should be able to trim the sails manually to steer.

Of course there are other allocations I could make (stern chasers, lower level port side guns)

I think the solution is to have the game use an algorithm to determine where the allocated crew is activly working based on the commands I give, and introduce delays only when they move between tasks or when there aren't enough of them for the task.

[Henry d'Esterre Darby]

Bear in mind gun reload is the same amount of time, so long as you have at least one full gun crew set on guns.  The only difference in having more versus less crew on guns above that number is in how many guns get reloaded at the same time.  If your guns take 34 seconds to reload, they'll always take 34 seconds to reload, just less of them will reload at the same time if you have less crew on guns.

[Grim DeGrim]

I'd like to adjust each independently to whatever my preference. This goes for all functions:

repair/sail/gunnery/survival/boarding

Also, the auto survival is not really what I desire as a Captain. Right or wrong, I might decide it is better to push my ship to its limit before dispatching crew to patching the ship up.

[Quineloe]

Its impossible the get a ship crafted. Crafters don't care about gold, because its too easy to get rich.

 

The only thing crafters accept is notes. I don't care about crafting, that means I'm lvl 5 in crafting (what you needed to craft notes before) Now you need to be lvl 35, to craft a highgrade note.

 

I can't make them. Nobody will sell me some. And crafters only take notes as payment = impossible to get a Bellona for eksample.

 

Do we really want notes to be ship building currency?

 

I've been shouting this from the rooftops for ages, and it's not settling in. The labor bottleneck is too tight.

The fact that he is willing to sell you a ship for four crafting notes - material price a mere 48k, because this would take a whole day off one of their crafting note crafters, speaks volumes about severely restricted the labor hours are right now. This basically means they're valuing ONE hour of a level 35 crafter to be worth at least 300 gold. Probably more like 1000 gold per hour.

Through warm bodies, Craft level 0 players, resources are available. Combining them into materials is available. Money is so easy to obtain, it is basically worthless. Which is why they refuse money for ships.

 

We only have two crafters able to make gold notes. But we also need those two crafters to make as many Bellonas as possible, because you can't fight PBs with Trincs.

If it weren't for the infinite supply of free third rates, we couldn't do PBs at all.

[Quineloe]

Holy crap batman. I have 41 high grade notes, I'm rich mamma!!!! I've hit the big time lol

yes, you are currently Warren Buffett style levels of wealthy.

To you arguing about resources and ports and whatnot, that's irrelevant. The bottleneck is the level 35 craft level labor required, and the fact that you actually need these crafters make ships, not notes. So unless there's a nation that for some reason has a significantly higher number of high level crafters than other nations, no nation currently has any sort of decent supply of these notes.

But before you come out and say "this is a good situation!", I have to break it to you that this is a temporary situation. In a few weeks, every clan will have a decent number of level 35 players who are not interested in doing crafting whatsoever, but do it for the sake of high grade notes

[Grim DeGrim]

I was about to post the same comment for the crafting situation. In a few weeks, this will normalize as well.

In the interim, it hurts.

[KrakkenSmacken]

yes, you are currently Warren Buffett style levels of wealthy.

To you arguing about resources and ports and whatnot, that's irrelevant. The bottleneck is the level 35 craft level labor required, and the fact that you actually need these crafters make ships, not notes. So unless there's a nation that for some reason has a significantly higher number of high level crafters than other nations, no nation currently has any sort of decent supply of these notes.

But before you come out and say "this is a good situation!", I have to break it to you that this is a temporary situation. In a few weeks, every clan will have a decent number of level 35 players who are not interested in doing crafting whatsoever, but do it for the sake of high grade notes

 

I have yet to see a reason, besides what appears "We want more stuff faster", to explain exactly "why" the bottleneck shouldn't be level 35 + crafter hours.

 

Why exactly is restricting supply of these notes, and therefore supply of GOLD high rated ships exactly a bad thing?  Shouldn't those ships be super duper special, and not the Honda civics of the Naval Action world?

[Quineloe]

I have yet to see a reason, besides what appears "We want more stuff faster", to explain exactly "why" the bottleneck shouldn't be level 35 + crafter hours.

 

Why exactly is restricting supply of these notes, and therefore supply of GOLD high rated ships exactly a bad thing?  Shouldn't those ships be super duper special, and not the Honda civics of the Naval Action world?

 

As I've explained three times now, they're not restricting the number of ships in any way. We've already faced a five Victory fleet today, it's just a matter of time until some nations field 25 Santissima PB fleets. All that is being done right now is put these ships behind a serious grind. Once that grind is completed, it's Santi, Santi, Santi, Santi.

 

Two Bellonas require more work than one Santi. The only reason we don't have all these Santis yet is because lack of BP, which is changing _right now_ due to the number of victories already being crafted, and the lack of level 46+ crafters, which will have also changed by April.

I predict that by the end of April we'll have seen the first PB with more first and second rates than third rates.

I've also not stated any change demands. I've posted my observations.

 

I don't know what would solve it. I do know that a Santissima being a mere 50% more production on easily acquired materials than a Bellona will lead to players crafting the best ship they can, as often as possible. The Santi needing 263 wooden fittings vs the Bellona's 197 doesn't cut it.

Edited March 16, 2016 by Quineloe

[KrakkenSmacken]

As I've explained three times now, they're not restricting the number of ships in any way. We've already faced a five Victory fleet today, it's just a matter of time until some nations field 25 Santissima PB fleets. All that is being done right now is put these ships behind a serious grind. Once that grind is completed, it's Santi, Santi, Santi, Santi.

 

Two Bellonas require more work than one Santi. The only reason we don't have all these Santis yet is because lack of BP, which is changing _right now_ due to the number of victories already being crafted, and the lack of level 46+ crafters, which will have also changed by April.

I predict that by the end of April we'll have seen the first PB with more first and second rates than third rates.

I've also not stated any change demands. I've posted my observations.

 

I don't know what would solve it. I do know that a Santissima being a mere 50% more production on easily acquired materials than a Bellona will lead to players crafting the best ship they can, as often as possible. The Santi needing 263 wooden fittings vs the Bellona's 197 doesn't cut it.

 

Have ships actually COST XP to build, in addition to time?  As in you spend a level to make a ship of a certain size and up.

 

BPs for ships requiring a level 3 ship yard and up, or all BP's, only allow for building a limited number of ships (Like a Dura)

 

That would sure cut down on the numbers.

Edited March 16, 2016 by KrakkenSmacken

[ObiQuiet]

Bear in mind gun reload is the same amount of time, so long as you have at least one full gun crew set on guns.  The only difference in having more versus less crew on guns above that number is in how many guns get reloaded at the same time.  If your guns take 34 seconds to reload, they'll always take 34 seconds to reload, just less of them will reload at the same time if you have less crew on guns.

 

Right.  To clarify, my point is that it matters very much which guns are reloaded.  I don't care about those opposite the enemy or the bow chasers if he's off my port quarter.   Ignore the other guns, and reload the stern chasers as fast as possible after every shot made with them. 

[Thonys]

1 Dura for a schip will solve a lot i think 

[KrakkenSmacken]

1 Dura for a schip will solve a lot i think 

 

They had that at one point, and all it did was make people stop fighting all together because they hated the level of risk.

 

That idea was tried, and failed.

[DeRuyter]

As I've explained three times now, they're not restricting the number of ships in any way. We've already faced a five Victory fleet today, it's just a matter of time until some nations field 25 Santissima PB fleets. All that is being done right now is put these ships behind a serious grind. Once that grind is completed, it's Santi, Santi, Santi, Santi.

 

Two Bellonas require more work than one Santi. The only reason we don't have all these Santis yet is because lack of BP, which is changing _right now_ due to the number of victories already being crafted, and the lack of level 46+ crafters, which will have also changed by April.

I predict that by the end of April we'll have seen the first PB with more first and second rates than third rates.

I've also not stated any change demands. I've posted my observations.

 

I don't know what would solve it. I do know that a Santissima being a mere 50% more production on easily acquired materials than a Bellona will lead to players crafting the best ship they can, as often as possible. The Santi needing 263 wooden fittings vs the Bellona's 197 doesn't cut it.

 

So the issue comes back again to the structure of PB doesn't it? Change the PB mechanics and by April we may see more variety of ships in PB. The opportunity is there with the introduction of land to change PB and slow the race to the 1st rates. More granularity of some type whether that is to introduce draft to ships and depth to ports, or something else should change this situation.

[KrakkenSmacken]

So the issue comes back again to the structure of PB doesn't it? Change the PB mechanics and by April we may see more variety of ships in PB. The opportunity is there with the introduction of land to change PB and slow the race to the 1st rates. More granularity of some type whether that is to introduce draft to ships and depth to ports, or something else should change this situation.

 

 

Well they are talking about pulling shore details into the battle instances. If I understood the posts right, if your in a cove, you will fight in a restricted area.  Shore batteries will be a thing.

 

With restricted space and the amount of ships in play, there may even be room for smaller ships in deep water port battles, especially if there are shallows here and there, despite it being a deep water port. 

 

That sure as heck will change the face of port battles.

[admin]

 

 

I don't know what would solve it. I do know that a Santissima being a mere 50% more production on easily acquired materials than a Bellona will lead to players crafting the best ship they can, as often as possible. The Santi needing 263 wooden fittings vs the Bellona's 197 doesn't cut it.

 

 

santi is 1 durability

2 bellonas will sink 1 santi easily

hms bellona has 3 durabilities - 3rd rate was a workhorse of the Navies. First rates were a prestige/status symbol

[Slamz]

santi is 1 durability

2 bellonas will sink 1 santi easily

hms bellona has 3 durabilities - 3rd rate was a workhorse of the Navies. First rates were a prestige/status symbol

 

That does still mean that 25 vs 25, the side wanting to flip the port is still better off in 25 Santis.

 

(25 Santis vs 25 Bellonas, the Santis just need to kill the towers and then 5 Bellonas to win... or if the opposing force are the "Bellona74" 3rd rates, just need to kill 3 of them in order to hit the 2:1 ratio and win.)

 

This is the sort of mechanic that causes people to spend so much time grinding: because if you don't, and the other team outranks you, you cannot defend your ports.

[Wilson09]

The game right now has no "content" at all.

What else can you do than GRIND GRIND GRIND ?

 

What´s the content right now? Grind....grind to 1st rate ships, nothing else...when this has been done...deinstall.

Nothing else can you expect from a 37 Euro title, play it for a certain amount of time until the grind has been done...

 

As their is no DLC policy or subscription, basically, any game designer wants you to deinstall the game...

make the way free for new players to occupy the costly servers. Yes, and you should bring in friends to buy the game...

 

Personally, I believe 95% of players need to update their expectations....all being used way too much to "free-to-play-games".

Premium ships? Nah....I´d love to pay 15 Euro / month for a good title with customer support and good updates and historically

related gameplay.

 

I suppose, those times are gone...the game will unfortunately "die" a slow death, as the studio seems to be to small to

bring in a massive change and they either come up with some creative business plan or they sell the game to a bigger

company who might pick it up and then....who knows?

 

Until then lets enjoy the grind...and stop dreaming please...

[victor]

I fear he could be right in that " the studio seems to be to small to bring in a massive change and they either come up with some creative business plan or they sell the game to a bigger company who might pick it up".

Edited March 18, 2016 by victor

[Wyspa]

@Wilson09

I would somewhat disagree...

Yes there is not much else to do than grind right now. That is if yor're PvE player type.

PvE is barely there... all missions are the same and only differentiate by ship types involved. This game could use some other mission types such as escort missions, boarding missions, trade missions or craft related ones.

Some challenges and visual unlocks (like new ship skins or decoration obtained by doing some special missions and stuff) would incrase longevity for PvE players.

But let's be honest here, until your like really big company you can never keep PvE player online forever. Even games like WoW with ton of content experience player fluctuations each time new big patch or expansion comes in... players explore new content gets bored and stop playing until new expansion comes.

However this game looks like it is designed around PvP. PvP even with not much content is really vibrant and there are tons of things to do for players involved in PB and wars. Economy is much more important in PvP, with coming full player eco crafters, producers and traders will have much more impact on the wars to come.

In the long run I don't think that Developers could expand on all fronts, but PvP stuff is going in right direction. It could mean that PvE players will be left in the cold in the long run but to be honest I think that PvP is what will make this game going.

Edited March 18, 2016 by Wyspa