Bubba Smith Posted March 12, 2016 Share Posted March 12, 2016 I have built a couple of compass wood producing factories (under buildings) and I can't seem to find a way to sell the product after manufacturing. Where do the resources show up and how can we sell the them? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hugh Latham Posted March 12, 2016 Share Posted March 12, 2016 Crew allocation might be best served by sliders. It sucks to have no hands in the rigging. Also, perhaps broadside crew allocation would be worthwhile. Sorry if this has been suggested above; too many pages to sift through Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Henry d'Esterre Darby Posted March 12, 2016 Share Posted March 12, 2016 Except Family share is two accounts, not one. This is a refund level issue. It's two accounts when you only paid for one. Even though you can't play both at the same time, they had completely separate character lists, resource lists, nations, etc. A "correct" family share implementation would have been to have the original account's characters, assets, xp, etc also available on the shared account - keeping it to the one character per game purchase rule that was implemented. The way it was, you could create an infinite number of characters, each with their own separate crafting pools, different Nations, etc. without paying an extra dime. This was not correct, it was not fair, and it was gamebreaking. 7 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prater Posted March 12, 2016 Share Posted March 12, 2016 Was draw distance of ships reduced on the OW? Ships are popping up rather close now instead of being able to see them far away. Max graphics for me. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leviathan Posted March 12, 2016 Share Posted March 12, 2016 I noticed the same thing as well. We sailed by some ships at relatively close distance and could not see them and then watched another ship instantly disappear out of view as it sailed away instead of slowing fading. Playing on ultra graphics also. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grim DeGrim Posted March 12, 2016 Share Posted March 12, 2016 Still an issue, as the maintenance affects all servers at the same time, or at least, in the same maintenance window - it happens at 8:00am GMT now (12:00 midnight Pacific). Doesn't matter whether you play on PVP1, PVP2, whatever. Oh. I didn't know. I made the assumption that pvp2 would be different from the EU server. My mistake. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grim DeGrim Posted March 12, 2016 Share Posted March 12, 2016 Was draw distance of ships reduced on the OW? Ships are popping up rather close now instead of being able to see them far away. Max graphics for me.I've noticed ships popping up and disappearing as well. Large Trincomalee, then pooof. I actually thought the guy had a cloak hack, lol. Had shadow play all ready, waiting for the surprise attack (so I could record it). Reality: it was just the draw distance Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quineloe Posted March 13, 2016 Share Posted March 13, 2016 (edited) It's two accounts when you only paid for one. Even though you can't play both at the same time, they had completely separate character lists, resource lists, nations, etc. A "correct" family share implementation would have been to have the original account's characters, assets, xp, etc also available on the shared account - keeping it to the one character per game purchase rule that was implemented. The way it was, you could create an infinite number of characters, each with their own separate crafting pools, different Nations, etc. without paying an extra dime. This was not correct, it was not fair, and it was gamebreaking. I fully agree with all of that. But maybe you should have launched with Family share completely disabled. By the way, Trincomalee is now 325 crew. Can't find that in the notes. Edited March 13, 2016 by Quineloe Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Alexander Posted March 13, 2016 Share Posted March 13, 2016 Correct me if i'm wrong but if I understood correctly before the patch with family sharing you could have multiple characters ingame with just a single copy for Naval action? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OlavDeng2 Posted March 13, 2016 Share Posted March 13, 2016 Was draw distance of ships reduced on the OW? Ships are popping up rather close now instead of being able to see them far away. Max graphics for me. I noticed it as well now. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kanay Posted March 13, 2016 Share Posted March 13, 2016 Yes, more LOD's popping effect either on ships or islands vegetation and buildings, some slight blinking textures effects and actually the shores of islands and "old" vegetation + rocky reliefs textures look more washed out than before the patch for me even at close view distances, a few rocks added here and there in water next the shores but at the same time of a big FPS loss while i don't see any visual improvements, in fact it looks like and attempt to make the game less demanding on some systems by reducing a bit the LOD's and some textures quality but not all went as expected probably as it comes also with a big loss of FPS instead of increasing them when doing such textures and LOD's quality reduction changes. It's probably a first try and will be polished in the future. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bleiwen Posted March 13, 2016 Share Posted March 13, 2016 NOW you are telling me that you tried. Before you did not tell. And you weren't telling him that you were making information up without knowing or having tried. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bleiwen Posted March 13, 2016 Share Posted March 13, 2016 Yes, of course, because its far easier to put down 5 production buildings in the same port and only have to come to them to collect once every couple of days, as opposed to the endless running about and contract management you need to do as a crafter. That assumes most people produce but do not craft. It seems to be the opposite, with most people gathering resources for the express purpose of crafting with them. Though I agree with you, that it makes things easier for a player who focuses on producing raw materials and selling them; it makes things considerably harder for everyone else. For anyone who crafts, the labor hours are the most precious resource (more precious than gold) and there is never enough of it. Having to use these to acquire crafting materials is a deal-breaker; especially when it's cheaper in both labor and gold to just buy from the market (what's the incentive then of these expensive buildings?). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dragonfire Posted March 13, 2016 Share Posted March 13, 2016 The ships popping up happened at the large update. It is annoying as hell if your by yourself sailing upwind trying to get to a port with damage and ship suddenly appears and no way in hell you can get turned in time to outrun it especially if that is the only open port you can go into. . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Henry d'Esterre Darby Posted March 13, 2016 Share Posted March 13, 2016 I fully agree with all of that. But maybe you should have launched with Family share completely disabled. By the way, Trincomalee is now 325 crew. Can't find that in the notes. I entirely agree, I suspect it was an oversight or mistake. Correct me if i'm wrong but if I understood correctly before the patch with family sharing you could have multiple characters ingame with just a single copy for Naval action? Correct, it was incorrectly turned on. Those characters are now, I believe, no longer accessible. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bleiwen Posted March 13, 2016 Share Posted March 13, 2016 There is no reason to be able to do so. You can craft / OR produce goods, or do both half as well. This isn't quite the issue, I think; it's more a problem that there is no incentive for anyone to bother producing at all, since you can buy anything on market for a lot less (in gold and in labor) than it would cost you to make it. No big deal for me, I only regret the 10K spent buying a mine before I understood that's how it works. It will now sit unused and I just won't consider purchasing other buildings, unless the rules change again (life in alpha!). No skin off my back but I do agree with the people saying it seems like adding a useless feature at the moment. That being said, to be fair, in many games that require purchased production buildings the only "labor" cost involve is waiting for the materials to trickle in (like they do here), that simulates the labor involved with gathering. So there often isn't that idea of paying for labor twice, once waiting for the trickle and then having to pay labor hours also. ~~~ To add something beyond responding to VonVolks (and on some of the other points), I love this game; but it's very much a niche game with a very diverse population that's very hard (possibly impossible) to balance. And since it's niche you don't have the luxury of a huge potential population of gamers to offset attrition. I've just started, but it's been so fun that I've gotten my money worth already, the sailing physics and combat are awesome especially for those who do sail irl. If the game changes in ways that don't jive with the fun I get from it, or don't jive with my play style then I'll just move on to the next game that will. It's all good! Another page in the life of a gamer! Most people do that in the end, so the key is to not discourage key population groups; which means knowing who these groups are. Also, often one group gets very vocal about small things and can affect change, while sometimes other populations tend to be less vocal to begin with (e.g. crafters) and tend to just leave without complaining too loudly. Maybe a lot of assumptions are made around the willingness (or even ability, since the map is huge and the population very low) of people to group-up to build ships; but I wouldn't assume that to be the case, especially on the PVE server where many ship builders are solo operators. Consider this, to people who are true lovers of sailboats and sailing, the fun potential of this game is in BOTH making the boats and sailing them (whether in combat or not). I mean the folks actually most passionate about this niche market, who are sailing real boats, and also making ship models will definitely want to do both. It seems like here, just like in PotBS there are loads of assumptions made that people come to this game only to fight and to socialize, that this is a game for the regular "MMO Gamer". In this niche market I'd say that many here are not your typical "MMO Gamer", that many are here more for the tall-ship-theme than the videogaming aspect and these folks are gonna want to build boats and sail them and they may or may not care for social interactions beyond actual combat and trading. I'd be every bit as happy to play this game even if it was single-player. If the Marketplace system allows folks to still trade efficiently at lower cost and without labor cost, they won't feel the need to produce things themselves. In a disfavorable PVP or in a ganking-rich environment, these types of folks would likely move to a PVE server just to keep playing the game while minimizing the frustrations (we're here for entertainment in the end after all). And since there is a PVE server, one can assume the game Devs do plan to cater to these styles of players, at least to a minimum. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bleiwen Posted March 13, 2016 Share Posted March 13, 2016 No, that's called "sailing"... In all fairness, we could use kedge anchors and row boats to turn at full stop. It would be extremely slow but irl you could still turn if needed. What was that engagement in the Caribbean when a US frigate (I think it was Old Ironsides herself even) was getting slow-motion ganked by some British ships? There was absolutely no wind for a couple days so no one could really do much of anything; as I recall the US frigate only managed to escape by dousing the sails and deploying kedge anchors on the down-low. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bleiwen Posted March 13, 2016 Share Posted March 13, 2016 (edited) Folks really need to find way to make feedback constructive. Eg: buildings now make the time to level your crafting skill long. I recommend a system like "blah". Or: crew management is not yet flexible enough, I recommend being able to allocate crews according to my own preference. I wouldn't be able to see the grains of truth and potential (if any) in many of these post as a Dev. Someone worked really hard to try make this for you. I love so many of the things in this patch. More realistic sailing is definitely one, the more realistic this game gets the more real sailing skills matter (which should be a key goal and it seems it is). The NPCs though sometimes seem as though they can still sail normally with half sails, hull and crew, which makes boarding maybe a tad un-necessarily tedious. I love the 0 turning at full stop, thank you! I love the extra cash and XP, it helps with the grind for new level and ship. It makes it easier for casual players. I love the marketplace UI changes, way to go!! It would be pretty sweet if I could see inventory of a ship or warehouse in another outpost somehow (new "owned" feature is super helpful and would be even more helpful if it also showed me total owned not just owned in this outpost). If Devs are not doing this for a particular reason (e.g. realism), then the game should provide me with an on-board ledger. There is a similar opportunity with navigation. The coastal navigation by dead reckoning is fun, but ships of the era would also have along with their maps some rulers and protractors; and a sextant for position readings when the skies allow it. Some sort of UI implementation of these tools on the map would real help make things feel even more authentic and immersive. The ruler and protractor could just be on the map and movable; the sextant reading could drop a large circle on the map to indicate the rough areas in which the reading would put the ship (maybe the less experienced captains have less accurate readings and thus larger circles to indicate less precise positioning. The only thing I dislike in the new patch is the Buildings implementation: - The shipyard, as much as it costs, should do a bit more than just open the possibility to make the next ships. Maybe the buildings should produce their own labors (they have crew/staff producing the goods). So in that sense, maybe a shipyard should give an additional trickle of Labor, and upgraded shipyards would give a bigger trickle of labor hours. - The Resource buildings are counter-productive now. They require me to spend money to buy and upgrade them, but getting resources from them costs me the same (or more) in gold than the Market; and on top of it they cost me in the most precious currency in game: labor hours. As it is, there is no incentive to use them and they are a feature I plan on not using (my plan is to keep the mine I built in case the rules change but I'm ignoring it for now). Maybe the solution here is the same as above, to have the buildings produce labor hours and to produce more of them as they are upgraded. If one opens a mine, it's for profit, not for it to cost more than just buying the stuff; so the gold prices to get the materials from a building shouldn't be near or above the Market price. Rather it would make more IRL sense that it be based on some labor cost of the folks working there. So maybe another way to look at it would be: pay gold to generate the LH of the building (up to a cap - maybe more gold for limited overtime) and use these LH to extract the resources. Just a raw idea, I'm not sure whether it would be better for these LHs to go into the crafing LH pool, or just go to a LH pool for just that building (I'd guess the latter but the Devs would know better). So have the buildings produce their own Labor Hours, more as the building is upgraded. Total LH for the building could/would have a cap. It would be possible to generate up to a set amount of extra LH for that building for a small gold labor fee; and past that amount it would be possible to generate up to a certain amount more LH for more 150% more gold (overtime/bonus). Sorry in advance if it's dumb, it's the best suggestion I can summon atm. One big suggestion I have though relates to the psychological aspect of player-driven economies and MMOs that someone else mentioned in a great post. I would like to ask the Devs to carefully consider, their target population for this game, and also importantly the current one. It might be that the rules may have to be tweaked between "Naval Action with a low population", versus "Naval Action with a large population. I suspect that a root cause of disconnect to be the difference between the vision of the Dev team, which by some extent is inevitably based on their target population size; versus the current population size. In the current "low-population spread in several Nations and throughout a ginormous world" situation, I think it's important to really encourage crafters and would-be crafters along with traders. If these folks aren't there, or tripping over themselves to put goods to market, then you have a problem worth analysis and correction. Another facet of this same coin is that with a very low population, the expectation of relying on player interaction for some aspects of the game (e.g. economy and crafting) becomes a risk, Because as someone else said, you can't force people to play in a certain way or all fit within a given mold, a game like this is attractive to a wide variety of mindsets and in a player-driven economy, keeping all these key mindsets "happy enough" is the only way to keep all player-driven aspects of the game healthy and keep the game firing on all cylinders (for the benefit of all). So I guess the biggest input I have would be to have a rock-solid plan for what the populations are, what their true impact to the game is (not who's loudest on forums as some other failed games tried to navigate by), and how the game will address them. Possibly how the game might change slightly on large population servers versus low-population servers, maybe on PVE servers versus PVP servers. If people are going to a PVE server, they make a decision to avoid the PVP server; so there would be no point for example in having a PVE server if the rules-set were to prevent the game from working right in a PVE environment (just a hypothetical example). So in short, I'm part assuming and part hoping the Devs have a super clear opinion and strategy on all this and that stick to it (because the loudest voices don't always belong to the most impact-full people when it comes to make a player driven economy work in an Age of Sail MMO). On that point, I'd say that the sailing geeks and age of sail geeks are going to be the most die-hard players of this game (because their market has but a handful of good games they will live and die for whoever finally gets it right and keeps it going). The crafters and traders and many sail geeks might be a bit more introverted and shy than your average MMO player; some might even avoid social interactions even though they are aware this is a MMO (consider they might rather this game be single player but there are even fewer decent single player age of sail games). So forcing folks to interact just because this is a MMO might in this niche market actually be discouraging the most important segment of the population. Anyways, once they feel they have a good grasp of the anatomy of their needed player base and its size, then formulate a plan and rules to keep all these folks happy and then follow the course. I only have so many opinions and words because I LOVE THIS GAME Fantastic job Devs, it plays and looks incredible, I can't believe it's alpha. I'm totally smitten. My attempt at being constructive Grim. Edited March 13, 2016 by Bleiwen 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quineloe Posted March 13, 2016 Share Posted March 13, 2016 I've noticed Trader Brigs and Snows now show broadside cannons ready to fire even though they don't have any (or as many as claimed) ie TBrig shows 8 / 8, TSnow shows 11 / 11 - and drops to 8 / 11 when firing one broadside. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VictusB Posted March 14, 2016 Share Posted March 14, 2016 (edited) - The Resource buildings are counter-productive now. They require me to spend money to buy and upgrade them, but getting resources from them costs me the same (or more) in gold than the Market; and on top of it they cost me in the most precious currency in game: labor hours. As it is, there is no incentive to use them and they are a feature I plan on not using (my plan is to keep the mine I built in case the rules change but I'm ignoring it for now). Maybe the solution here is the same as above, to have the buildings produce labor hours and to produce more of them as they are upgraded. If one opens a mine, it's for profit, not for it to cost more than just buying the stuff; so the gold prices to get the materials from a building shouldn't be near or above the Market price. Rather it would make more IRL sense that it be based on some labor cost of the folks working there. So maybe another way to look at it would be: pay gold to generate the LH of the building (up to a cap - maybe more gold for limited overtime) and use these LH to extract the resources. Just a raw idea, I'm not sure whether it would be better for these LHs to go into the crafing LH pool, or just go to a LH pool for just that building (I'd guess the latter but the Devs would know better). So have the buildings produce their own Labor Hours, more as the building is upgraded. Total LH for the building could/would have a cap. It would be possible to generate up to a set amount of extra LH for that building for a small gold labor fee; and past that amount it would be possible to generate up to a certain amount more LH for more 150% more gold (overtime/bonus). Sorry in advance if it's dumb, it's the best suggestion I can summon atm. Fantastic job Devs, it plays and looks incredible, I can't believe it's alpha. I'm totally smitten. My attempt at being constructive Grim. --- If you read the notes carefully, they mention that NPC production will be phased out. So like it or not, those buildings are on track to become the SOLE source of raw materials (edit: ofc there will be trader capping still). I believe the intent is to create two classes of crafting, casual resource producers who just quickly yank mats and sell them at higher profit, and ship/module crafters who are all but forced to buy (or have their clan give them) the raw mats and spend every single hour on ship building. The only thing that confuses me is we have gone from 'gold is great' to 'gold is meh' . Silver is the new gold as there are fewer ports that produce silver than gold, and ALL modules of every quality level use silver notes. Also the ships most players are using atm are silver note dependant. Even as the avg level rises, I just can't see how gold will ever be in high demand again...and never as high as silver will be from here on out. mabe a tiered system where common/fine require silver but MC/Exceptional require gold notes? Edited March 14, 2016 by VictusB Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hiclipucli Posted March 14, 2016 Share Posted March 14, 2016 (edited) I like the way that gives players the production. but in this way? this is exactly the wrong way ! Why require the emptying store more craft hours ?? The craft hours now extrem few for all the workflows . Please REDUCE the notes hour demand asap, and do it at that buildings produce crafting hours, instead of being deducted. thx . Edited March 14, 2016 by hiclipucli Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prater Posted March 14, 2016 Share Posted March 14, 2016 Yes, more LOD's popping effect either on ships or islands vegetation and buildings, some slight blinking textures effects and actually the shores of islands and "old" vegetation + rocky reliefs textures look more washed out than before the patch for me even at close view distances, a few rocks added here and there in water next the shores but at the same time of a big FPS loss while i don't see any visual improvements, in fact it looks like and attempt to make the game less demanding on some systems by reducing a bit the LOD's and some textures quality but not all went as expected probably as it comes also with a big loss of FPS instead of increasing them when doing such textures and LOD's quality reduction changes. It's probably a first try and will be polished in the future. I notice a difference and improvement. Though I don't notice a loss of fps. But I have a 980 ti. Making small battle towers weaker has had the unintended consequence of easily rushing a port and killing it 20 minutes after the flag was pulled. That isn't enough time for defense to materialize. Something needs to be done to give defenders more of a chance to respond. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hyperion74 Posted March 14, 2016 Share Posted March 14, 2016 I'm a bit late to the party because the wife is never ready to go when it's time to leave, just joking... I have been sailing and checking out the new stuff. Good , for the most part. I love the new crew focus. Don't do any crafting/econ but I have been following the lads in chat. Not possessing a great understanding of econ, the main thing that struck me is that a ship yard is damned expensive. That will be my only comment on econ. As for the sailing, been in irons a few times and got frustrated as hell, but then I figured out a solution. I'm better trained now and I have added some better controls to my keyboard NA profile. My biggest problem is with the Marines. Being an auld Marine myself, I don't think that the in game Marines should not be counted as crew unless in close action. In reality, a Marine could crew a great gun or haul on a rope to trim sail. This is what makes a Marine more than a common soldier. There should also be a mechanic which takes out the enemy crew being that Marines were in the fighting tops with their weapons popping the bad guys new arse holes in their fore heads. My math may be wrong but in a Snow, about 1/4 of my crew is useless except during boarding. Our glorious Marines need to be re-addressed. The other problem we noticed, those of us on the PvE server, is that out frame rates have dropped a bit. Before the patch we were getting high 30's to mid 40's and now we get low 30's. Only makes a small difference in graphics but it is noticeable. It's totally awesome that the Niagara is a buildable ship now. I got mine as a sea trial reward and I LOVE it. Everyone get one. Great job Adonis like devs. I was a beta tester on the other game(POTBS) but this experience is far more rewarding. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tindahbawx Posted March 14, 2016 Share Posted March 14, 2016 What did the wee hotfix today change? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Clark Posted March 14, 2016 Share Posted March 14, 2016 Most of the new update is great except the production crafting, cost and hours are far to high to make this side of the game workable. I am sure it just needs a price adjustment, ie lower for both hours and cost, one need to do to much trading with other ports to make it worth while, but even a 20 % change would help make it cost effective. just not quite right yet, also love the Niagara. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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