Apiece O'Pie Posted February 9, 2016 Share Posted February 9, 2016 Sometimes "responding quickly" to player demands is the wrong thing to do. Hot fixes are for bugs, not making significant mechanics and resource changes. If you'd posted s week in advance that you were planning on making these changes, the players would have debated it and you'd have had more buy-in. Now all you have is frustration and anger. Communities need to feel like they're part of the decision-making process, and players need a bit of time to consider how changes will affect their gameplay before these things go live. Yes this is early access, but you can't treat EA like you would an early beta. We've paid for this game, what's more is we're investing time into it. When you make changes that impact the game, it impacts both the value of what we've already invested in it, as well as the value we place on continuing to invest in it. I suggest you take a page or two from CCP and EVE online. Give clear, advanced notice of changes that impact gameplay (especially production, ship characteristics and money) and consider appointing some players to take the lead on gathering player feedback on proposed changes (similar to EvE's ISM). I, for one, really dislike this patch for reasons many have already stated so I won't go into them again. A few thoughts: - Stop doubling and tripling things. Try to keep changes (esp to the economy) down to less than 25% at a time. Use a hammer to test changes, not a sledgehammer. - Hire an economist (as a consultant). It'll cost a bit, but I'm sure someone at your local university could publish s paper about the experience and wouldn't charge much. It will save you SO much pain in the long run. Love the game! Learn from this and keep up the great work. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TH Wolf Posted February 9, 2016 Share Posted February 9, 2016 4. Mission XP and monetary compensation increased Sorry, but the Money increase was too much, i get now 50.000 for Kapitain-Leutnant Mission, bevor it was 15.000 and it was Okay Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Knite Posted February 9, 2016 Share Posted February 9, 2016 Yes, I intend to inform potential buyers of this game's "current state", which changes dramatically for the worse each week. I'll let them know that they should only purchase early access if they are willing to pay $40 to perform the tasks that should be executed by professional game testers while the developers clumsily implement wild changes that erase any sense of progress. This is early access; it's common practice to let players progress rapidly in early access so that higher-tier equipment/ships/what-have-you can be tested by more than just the most hardcore players. WarGaming gives you like a billion credits and a shit ton of dubloons (premium credits) for free on their public test server so that people can try things out and the developer can get gameplay data. For an early access game, prior to today's EXP and gold patch, the grind seemed pretty equivalent to a full-released game, which I don't think allows for proper testing. I don't want to spend 20 hours of my life in a game in alpha on the lowest ship, but neither do I think I should be in a Victory after a week. It seems to me that many of the loudest complainers here have lost sight of the fact that this game is early access and that progress isn't permanent. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
n_Ka Posted February 9, 2016 Share Posted February 9, 2016 (edited) We need this patch for money. I have just lost 1 dura of my ship. Ship coast 250 000 golds. 1 dura = 50 000 + 1250 repear kit Victory give dammage golds + reward mission = 25 000golds. For 2 mission, 1 win with dammage 20 000 golds and 17 000 money reward victory= 37 000 I lost 50 000+ 2X reapar kit= 52500. 52500-37000= 15 500. I lost 15 500. Ok if you win all time you win good money, but sorry all player are not sniper. And again outpost cost money, and ship giving for the game "belle poule" 83 000 basic. When player craft basic 150 000 -.-' All gold ship are minimum 200 000. And pvp coast, but for that to be fun, we need have the possibility to use ship fast. If we need play 5 days for farm money, for after playing pvp, is bad. pirate of burning sea is more realestic of you'r games now the money have no sence on you'r games That have killing potbs. Farming money non stop, fleet 1 month ago, for play 1 hour of pvp Edited February 9, 2016 by n_Ka 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
admin Posted February 9, 2016 Author Share Posted February 9, 2016 Why can't we have economy be dependent on user demand? Or at least be connected with DAU or daily PCU? it will be player based once production buildings are added. 10 players will have x production slots providing supply for Y players. 1000 players will have 100x production slots providing supply for 100Y players. Right now criticizing fixed NPC supply is basically useless as it will not matter. Same with money. Remember that to find more problems it is sometimes better to exaggerate it. (or using the Toyota production system philosophy - to see all under water stones in a river you have to take out all water). Hang on there Captains. We wont let you down 6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ghroznak Posted February 9, 2016 Share Posted February 9, 2016 Wow... yesterday... 3000g/100xp for my missions. Today... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grim DeGrim Posted February 9, 2016 Share Posted February 9, 2016 I might start doing missions now. Worth my while, lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Long Ben Posted February 9, 2016 Share Posted February 9, 2016 (edited) it will be player based once production buildings are added. 10 players will have x production slots providing supply for Y players. 1000 players will have 100x production slots providing supply for 100Y players. Right now criticizing fixed NPC supply is basically useless as it will not matter. Same with money. Remember that to find more problems it is sometimes better to exaggerate it. (or using the Toyota production system philosophy - to see all under water stones in a river you have to take out all water). Hang on there Captains. We wont let you down I assume these changes will be accompanied with a full wipe, correct? I just wanted to make sure that I don't spend any more time continuing to test features that are planned on being removed. Edited February 10, 2016 by Long Ben Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ulysse77 Posted February 9, 2016 Share Posted February 9, 2016 no full wipes anymore, maybe gold and some asset, but xp will not be wiped again... So basically we have ressources in different port, production is NPC controlled, Is it safe to assume that ressources will stay the same as we have now but we will need to create the building to extract those ressources.... EI dont make it that a port can produce all the ressources... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
la Touche-Treville Posted February 9, 2016 Share Posted February 9, 2016 OK, with all that has been said, I understand the logic for these changes. It is early access and we are here to test and provide feedback. Let's run with this for 1 week and see the result. No drama 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quineloe Posted February 9, 2016 Share Posted February 9, 2016 So far your fix for the fir shortage has not stopped the exploiters of BUY contracts from keeping the shop empty. Get rid of buy contracts. They are the single worst aspect of the economy. I think it's a bit too early to judge this. Let the production roll for a few days, then see if their contracts hold up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DoctorRockzo Posted February 9, 2016 Share Posted February 9, 2016 This is early access; it's common practice to let players progress rapidly in early access so that higher-tier equipment/ships/what-have-you can be tested by more than just the most hardcore players. WarGaming gives you like a billion credits and a shit ton of dubloons (premium credits) for free on their public test server so that people can try things out and the developer can get gameplay data. For an early access game, prior to today's EXP and gold patch, the grind seemed pretty equivalent to a full-released game, which I don't think allows for proper testing. I don't want to spend 20 hours of my life in a game in alpha on the lowest ship, but neither do I think I should be in a Victory after a week. It seems to me that many of the loudest complainers here have lost sight of the fact that this game is early access and that progress isn't permanent. I could "test" for WarGaming without ever spending a nickel, and that would be a fair exchange. Why should I pay $40 for the privilege of working for a game developer? This experience has soured my perception of the "early access" business model. There is no real difference between "early access" and "release" besides the ability of developers to excuse their failures. The game is buggy? Early access. Promised features are missing? Early access. Players get shafted by poorly implemented ideas? Early access. The games I play do not stop evolving after "release"; they continue to be updated, bugs are fixed, and features are continually added. It is not my intention to complain about the $40 I wasted; It is my intention to inform others of the current state of the game. It is never mentioned on the Steam store page that early access means progress is temporary. If they had made it clear that players are wasting their time because progress is regularly nullified, many of us would not have bought it. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Knite Posted February 9, 2016 Share Posted February 9, 2016 It is never mentioned on the Steam store page that early access means progress is temporary. If they had made it clear that players are wasting their time because progress is regularly nullified, many of us would not have bought it. It comes with the territory; I go into every early-access game I play with the expectation that my progress will be reset at some point. Why would you expect it to be any different? It's been the case with pretty much every early-access game I've played that I can recall off the top of my head. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dalriaden Posted February 9, 2016 Share Posted February 9, 2016 I could "test" for WarGaming without ever spending a nickel, and that would be a fair exchange. Why should I pay $40 for the privilege of working for a game developer? This experience has soured my perception of the "early access" business model. There is no real difference between "early access" and "release" besides the ability of developers to excuse their failures. The game is buggy? Early access. Promised features are missing? Early access. Players get shafted by poorly implemented ideas? Early access. The games I play do not stop evolving after "release"; they continue to be updated, bugs are fixed, and features are continually added. It is not my intention to complain about the $40 I wasted; It is my intention to inform others of the current state of the game. It is never mentioned on the Steam store page that early access means progress is temporary. If they had made it clear that players are wasting their time because progress is regularly nullified, many of us would not have bought it. Ever played battlefield 4 and battlefront? both released products that were utter shite because they were released early. Progress is temporary? Gold and crafting sure, they've said that numerously, repeatedly, on steam and here, so why are you complaining for not actually reading about something you're spending money on? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CommanderJ Posted February 9, 2016 Share Posted February 9, 2016 I like how it is now. If the higher rewards is a problem for PvP, then keep this stuff on PvE server. It's time they were different. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kobus van Harber Posted February 9, 2016 Share Posted February 9, 2016 no full wipes anymore, maybe gold and some asset, but xp will not be wiped again... So basically we have ressources in different port, production is NPC controlled, Is it safe to assume that ressources will stay the same as we have now but we will need to create the building to extract those ressources.... EI dont make it that a port can produce all the ressources... What will be with crafting exp? For me it's much more important than regular exp. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZeroEmpires Posted February 9, 2016 Share Posted February 9, 2016 Early access is for testing and fixing. Economy is not in its final state and what you see right now does not represent what will happen once port investments and port production is implemented. I am glad you mention this admin, there's no point finely balancing the economy in it's current state if it's only going to get shaken up and un-balanced once port investments and production is added into the game. Why do the same job twice. Keep up the awesome work and I hope people will understand the nature of your changes. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DoctorRockzo Posted February 9, 2016 Share Posted February 9, 2016 It comes with the territory; I go into every early-access game I play with the expectation that my progress will be reset at some point. Why would you expect it to be any different? It's been the case with pretty much every early-access game I've played that I can recall off the top of my head. Good for you. I am glad to hear that you have the time and patience to replay the same game several times. The thrill of sailing a basic cutter the first time was enough to satisfy me. I'm done. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blood Eagle Posted February 9, 2016 Share Posted February 9, 2016 Not sure why they made missions give more gold, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gozer Posted February 9, 2016 Share Posted February 9, 2016 (edited) Abundant supplies have to be tested to properly judge the production buildings (mines, etc) effects and calculate their production capacity with real data. that is just nonsense. Lets take a wild guess what you'll find out ... 1) even after changes economy is still screwed, because you didn't touch the underlying problem of entire production of bottleneck resource(s) being locked in contracts 2) bottleneck resource will shift to hemp (necessary for ship crafting but didn't get production increased to ridiculous numbers yet) 3) with other resources available in large ammounts the current 'Contract Wars' will shift to hemp 4) increased gold rewards will make it that much eaiser to dump more money into contracts, making bottleneck resources even less available because gold needed to buy out entire daily production is now basically pocket change for any mission runner 5) next week we will have 'hemp crisis' patch ... and then this 'economy as designed by 5 year old' cycle will continue if you want to test abundant supplies, why don't you look at different servers? If all servers use the same production numbers, then the servers with lower population must be absolutely drowning in the resources (maybe with exception of the few ports nearest to the national capitals, where all the lazy players roam) Edited February 9, 2016 by gozer 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
charognard666 Posted February 9, 2016 Share Posted February 9, 2016 Good for you. I am glad to hear that you have the time and patience to replay the same game several times. The thrill of sailing a basic cutter the first time was enough to satisfy me. I'm done. In all alpha or bêta process, you must keep in mind progress are allway wipe before the next testing phase... beeing alpha or beta tester give u : - thé pleasur to test and play an uninished game before others - an udge advantage on regulars players cause the release day, you already know game mechanism. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xoosch Posted February 9, 2016 Share Posted February 9, 2016 Oh no is the Wipe, rumor-mill really starting again? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
n_Ka Posted February 9, 2016 Share Posted February 9, 2016 (edited) i read only the eco player, but if you no make eco? increased gold rewards ^^ Edited February 9, 2016 by n_Ka 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kahnrad Posted February 9, 2016 Share Posted February 9, 2016 Good patch, I haven't gotten a chance to play today yet but I am looking forward to seeing how it affects the short amount of time I have to play a night. To everyone hating on this patch, you have to remember that this is Alpha and Early Access, things will change with time, but if you don't play the game because you are angry about the changes than they are going to stay the way they are. One last note, just at a glance of what people have said on this thread the gold rewards from the missions does seem a bit high, the XP looks fine though. Thank you for your awesome work so far Game Labs! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
James Thomson Posted February 9, 2016 Share Posted February 9, 2016 (edited) All this whining about that people paid for Early Acces that the game is buggy... No one asked you to pay! Its more of way for fans to support a niche game to be developed, not a early acces to game that is ready. Anyone who claims that paying for early acces game should receive finished product whitout bugs or big changes in to the game world in development progress, has been too blinded by the fact the game is not ready it is in ever changeing state and testing where almost everything is subject to change. Example next week all our ships might be deleted for the sake of development. What are you gonna do then? Come cry to the forums again? All your gold might get wiped too, cry more? If so, you are not fit for early access. Leave now. Come back when its realeased. It seems like most here have never attended beta progress of a game, i just hope developers keep their cool. And that they have Pro testers that they listen. Oh and beetween the released product might cost you 50$ to 60$, you just got it in sale price! Hooray. Edited February 9, 2016 by James Thomson 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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