Alliances - final design

[Sir-Danger]

Im sry.. dont read all the Answers..

 

I miss something in this mechanic.. there's only Red and Green.. non white, no "nonagression pact"  ..

[Jeheil]

Democracy...what treason is this.....

 

I am excited to see how all this goes and let's be open to expecting some tweaking and balancing.

 

I would like to see the following considered :

 

1) You must have spent X hours with a nation in order to be eligible to vote

2) You must be of rank Y or above

3) I do look forward to weighted votes (eg your vote counts more if you participated in port battles to some level, perhaps if you spend more than 10 hours a week, but you still get some smaller 'weight' if you are more casual).

 

4) We need to give pirates something to do..or the forums will explode with their salty tears...let nations hire a clan to sink X BR of their enemy nation..contracts placed at free port...executed by a clan...cash on delivery)

 

5) Can we also have TRADE alliances...that allow non-warships to dock, build if they wish and trade with their trade partners...rather than just LOVE or WAR.

 

6) Can we have a war score...BR Sunk, Captured, Surrenders, Ports Captured, Lost etc.

 

7) Can we have a bug/feature that means even if France wins a war it gets counted as a loss.

[Loco Bandito]

Democracy...what treason is this.....

 

I am excited to see how all this goes and let's be open to expecting some tweaking and balancing.

 

I would like to see the following considered :

 

1) You must have spent X hours with a nation in order to be eligible to vote

2) You must be of rank Y or above

3) I do look forward to weighted votes (eg your vote counts more if you participated in port battles to some level, perhaps if you spend more than 10 hours a week, but you still get some smaller 'weight' if you are more casual).

 

4) We need to give pirates something to do..or the forums will explode with their salty tears...let nations hire a clan to sink X BR of their enemy nation..contracts placed at free port...executed by a clan...cash on delivery)

 

5) Can we also have TRADE alliances...that allow non-warships to dock, build if they wish and trade with their trade partners...rather than just LOVE or WAR.

 

6) Can we have a war score...BR Sunk, Captured, Surrenders, Ports Captured, Lost etc.

 

7) Can we have a bug/feature that means even if France wins a war it gets counted as a loss.

I like point 4.

[Guest]

Democracy...what treason is this.....

 

I am excited to see how all this goes and let's be open to expecting some tweaking and balancing.

 

I would like to see the following considered :

 

1) You must have spent X hours with a nation in order to be eligible to vote

2) You must be of rank Y or above

3) I do look forward to weighted votes (eg your vote counts more if you participated in port battles to some level, perhaps if you spend more than 10 hours a week, but you still get some smaller 'weight' if you are more casual).

 

4) We need to give pirates something to do..or the forums will explode with their salty tears...let nations hire a clan to sink X BR of their enemy nation..contracts placed at free port...executed by a clan...cash on delivery)

 

5) Can we also have TRADE alliances...that allow non-warships to dock, build if they wish and trade with their trade partners...rather than just LOVE or WAR.

 

6) Can we have a war score...BR Sunk, Captured, Surrenders, Ports Captured, Lost etc.

 

7) Can we have a bug/feature that means even if France wins a war it gets counted as a loss.

 

 

How will you handle Point 3 after a wipe when everybody starts from Zero?

Edited August 3, 2016 by Guest

[Jeheil]

How will you handle Point 3 after a wipe when everybody starts from Zero?

 

On day 1 its 1 unit of vote each.

[Tyrdael]

Imho no difference in "weight" of a vote. There is no difference in a voting system between poor, rich, with influence, without. No matter if you put huge amounts of effort into it, or fish afk. Voting prerequesite is to be registered, and all that bought the game are. 

Edited August 3, 2016 by Tyrdael

[Thonys]

i also would like to see that only  clan members can vote 

( for the purpose of joining up clans sooner , and for political  involvement as a clan) 

 

it also roules out lonely alts and rogue people

Edited August 3, 2016 by Thonys

[Skully]

One player - one vote!

 

Democratic system please. Im so tired being member of a nation that is tossed around by a few, dedicated players with their home-made-RvR diplomacy. Its really a turn-off and one of the major reasons for annoyance. "You cant attack that ship - we have a treaty with those guys - do this - do that"

 

Damn! Lets ged rid of this once and for all!

 

All byers have paid the same amount of money - all should have the same vote. All other factors should be left out completely! We are all customers here!!!!

You don't get a Victory, just because you paid.

You don't get a Port, just because you paid.

You don't get political power, just because you paid.

Don't get me wrong. I really like the way you have put forth a successful clan.

http://forum.game-labs.net/index.php?/topic/15429-diplomacy-may-not-be-a-good-idea/?p=286743

You need freedom for your clan, while maintaining alliances. A different kind of Pirate, a Neutral if you will.

The alliance mechanics should cater to your clan as well as any other (National or Pirate).

[Lannes]

DEMOCRATIC vote is best. We are all equal as customers; we have all paid for the game. It would be an abandonment of the customer base for the Devs to determine that votes can only be cast by a few. Also, it should be made as simple as possible. There is a tendency to make this game increasingly complex and less user friendly.

I have not joined a Nation to be told what to do by lesser personalities who might be Admirals or what-not. Rank is not an assurance of rationality in a wargame. Indeed, any fool can get a high rank if he plays long enough. A game is not real life. It must not become a simulation of real life warfare and politics. There is already a certain amount of politics just because human beings (players) have the tendency toward being egocentric--that's the part that is unpleasant.

It is still a SUPERB game, though.

Edited August 3, 2016 by Lannes

[Jeheil]

Bunch of lilly livered democracy loving hippies....

 

Right then...time to work out how to lobby and buy votes...I wonder if there are any RL models I could look to

[Skully]

DEMOCRATIC vote is best. We are all equal as customers; we have all paid for the game. It would be an abandonment of the customer base for the Devs to determine that votes can only be cast by a few. Also, it should be made as simple as possible. There is a tendency to make this game increasingly complex and less user friendly.

I have not joined a Nation to be told what to do by lesser personalities who might be Admirals or what-not. Rank is not an assurance of rationality in a wargame. Indeed, any fool can get a high rank if he plays long enough. A game is not real life. It must not become a simulation of real life warfare and politics. There is already a certain amount of politics just because human beings (players) have the tendency toward being egocentric--that's the part that is unpleasant.

It is still a SUPERB game, though.

Nation should not dictate Clan, which should not dictate Ship.

A captain should always be master and commander of his own ship. The choice of sticking to the politics on a higher level should be a player decision, not an enforced one.

However consequences should be in there as well.

[Jeheil]

Nation should not dictate Clan, which should not dictate Ship.

A captain should always be master and commander of his own ship. The choice of sticking to the politics on a higher level should be a player decision, not an enforced one.

However consequences should be in there as well.

 

Clearly the words of some pirate-minded devil....one should follow orders or one should be prepared for the consequences. This is how a navy rules the waves and not just their own lunchbox.

[Thonys]

i haven t heard it or seen it here but,perhaps a system of standings (for pirates ) is a option to

a good pirate /  or a bad pirate 

a pirate who attacks other pirates gets negative standing to that faction

 

a pirate who does not attack pirates in own waters keeps his +1 status and can flip after a amount of time (200 sailing hours) to a nation

(if he does attack only  Danes and french and dutch/  he can flip to the Brits or US for example) 

if he attacks all then there is no flip also

[Baptiste Gallouédec]

So is the "such is a lord" dumped for this ?

 

 I have no problem with it, let's try it, it's easier, it could work better than the more complex lord system and could please a larger audience.  Let's not deviate the topic about pirates, they said they will work on them later.

Edited August 3, 2016 by Baptiste Gallouédec

[Tyrdael]

I kind of want to see this implemented first, before elaborate all possible tweaks. Right now just reading up whom i am allowed to shoot and whom not is just annoying. Green tagged players - ignore, reds - attack. its easy as that.

 

Regarding the pirate flipping: a nation can vote to pardon a pirate/grp of pirates and let them join in, but not the other way around.

[Guest]

While the idea of an undemocratic system sounds far more interesting than some modern direct democracy, both historically and in terms of in-game intrigue, I fear that it will eventually just lead to lots of toxic drama because of...Well, us.

[Sir Texas Sir]

I like point 4.

The salty tears part or the contracts?  I'm kinda hoping they do Privateer Contracts for PvP players that aren't all about econ at some day and this could be a good way for Pirates to get back into a Nation.  We can still offer up contracts without a mechanic.  I know a certain US Captain I wouldn't mind paying for some one to sink right now lol

[Skully]

While the idea of an undemocratic system sounds far more interesting than some modern direct democracy, both historically and in terms of in-game intrigue, I fear that it will eventually just lead to lots of toxic drama because of...Well, us.

Lots of good stories. Bring'em.

[Skully]

Clearly the words of some pirate-minded devil....one should follow orders or one should be prepared for the consequences. This is how a navy rules the waves and not just their own lunchbox.

So the question becomes: how to deal with folks not following Nation orders?

If we simply disable attack, then they only have one option: stop playing.

[edit] Forgot to note, from a Clan perspective it is already handled: kick.

Edited August 3, 2016 by Skully

[Skully]

IMHO only Landlords should have a right to vote.

There definitely needs to be an in-game system to allow easy nation swapping, but it needs to be an application process put to vote by the new nation's citizens and it must require that you have been in your current nation for at least a set period of time. I think it must also require that you do some sort of good deed for the nation that you are intending to defect to. Perhaps you must capture a port for that new nation or you must pay in gold and in goods? Who knows, but yes to in-game Letters of Marque, but also yes to requirements that will prevent nation hopping every day or even every week.

This is why I think the voting system should develop into a points per vote system.If PvP'ers are killing enemy ships and or taking enemy ports, then what weight can we have for the crafter? Maybe they need to donate to a national treasury? Maybe there should be a national traders market that is separate from the full market, and everything you sell on the nation only market will count? Who knows, but yes, all should be able to vote.

Or rather: what makes up Parliament?

At least I think we can all agree that Pirates do not have a Parliament.

To give the historians something to ponder over: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/First_Parliament_of_Great_Britain

[Hethwill]

i also would like to see that only  clan members can vote 

( for the purpose of joining up clans sooner , and for political  involvement as a clan) 

 

it also roules out lonely alts and rogue people

 

No way !!!

 

Plus only votes awarded when PvP score is within the threshold. Score equals BR ratio average. Must be equal to or lower than 1.5.

 

If not, cannot vote.

 

Simple and effective.

[Quineloe]

What's the difference between being an enemy and being "not allied"?

 

I belive this will be followed by a pirate mechanic change ? Otherwise current Pirates (nation) will be in a very unfavorable position.

You mean like it was announced from the very start? Oh noes!

Will pirates have the option to re-roll if this puts pirates in an unfavorable position? Switch nations?

Yes, delete your character, create a new one with the nation you want to play as.

[Quineloe]

You clearly missed my point. I mean UNTILL Pirates are reworked and given other options of playstyle they should be treated as nation.

 

You're alpha testing. I'm pretty sure Denmark is not going to attack you even if they can't be in an alliance with you. Nothing will change for you.

Mountain out of a mole hill once again. As usual.

[admin]

So is the "such is a lord" dumped for this ?

 

 I have no problem with it, let's try it, it's easier, it could work better than the more complex lord system and could please a larger audience.  Let's not deviate the topic about pirates, they said they will work on them later.

 

 

the goal is to test how alliances work. how votes are received can be updated later. 

for the first test votes will depend on rank and time probably time in the nation. 

[Eishen]

what if scenario...

 

week 1

  France (declared enemy england) allies denmark (declared enemy england)

  

week 2

  denmark (declared enemy england) allies with Verenig. (declared enemy USA)

  

  If France launchs a series of invasions against Verenig. (as it seems you do not need to have them as declared enemy to do so)

  

  can danes join BOTH sides in a PB? no side? How is green on green fire defined in this stance?

   

   

   "Alliances also will play important part in hostility generation"  does this means a bonus to hostility against "chosen enemies"?