Minor port battle changes next patch

[captain_andrey]

Now assuming the BR limit is 11k, please tell us the optimal  setup to use this BR limit.

 

Its going to be 23 Ingermanlands, which is pretty much exactly the fleets we are going to see if the devs implement the changes they listed.

[captain_andrey]

For the sake of argument, let's assume that the fates smile on my suggestion and the optimal configuration turns out to be roughly historically accurate; a few 1st rates, a majority of 3rds and large frigates, and a supporting smattering of speedy frigates and of mortar brigs. Let's also assume that you're right, and the same format is brought to every battle.

 

1: It'd be more historically accurate than 25 santis.

2: Even though the fleet composition would be the same each time, what each player gets to sail won't be; get bored of sailing a 1st rate and you can sail the next battle in a speedy frigate.

3: Turning up to the battle in a smaller ship won't be an automatic sentence to screening.

4: Someone joining in a cutter won't automatically keep another player out of the battle, stopping that particular trolling method.

5: Nations on the back foot would still be able to fight back; they may not be able to sail the optimal mixed fleet, but in the event of an emergency they could swarm a large fleet of smaller ships and fight a last-ditch battle that actually has a hope of winning.

This will never happen, the optimal set up will always be made of similar ships, ships that are able to sail together. Diverse fleets will get split up, the slow ships will get kited and the fast ones will be primaried. A homogeneous fleet composition has the advantage of running away from anything bigger than itself or destroying anything smaller than itself.   

[CptEdwardKenway]

It's obvious the best way to use a 25 ship limit is 25 first rates, as that provides most BR, most armor and most firepower, and maneuverability doesn't really matter because with that many first rates you can cover each other just too well. No thinking involved here.

 

Now assuming the BR limit is 11k, please tell us the optimal  setup to use this BR limit.

 

<crickets>

 

exactly, it will take a looooong time to figure out the ideal composition for this type of BR and it will constantly be challenged by different setups.

The frigate was also expected to strike her colours without a fight if it couldn't get away.

 

So there will be a BR limit? I like the idea because teams need to mix up and it would be the end of the 25 1st rates fleets.

[Musuko42]

This will never happen

 

The only way to know that for sure is to test it.

[Nalyd]

Another advantage of the BR limit is if there is a need to nerf or buff a particular ship. You can just slide its Battle Ranking higher if it's too good, or lower if it's too weak.

Therefore you won't need to touch to the specifications of a ship like it's speed, turn rate, resistance etc. for balancing reasons.

 

And I would argue that having to tweak 1 value is way easier than tweaking 5+ values and trying to make them work together.

 

Again, a BR limit allows the losing/weaker faction to still put up a fight and maybe snatch a win even if they can't come up with the best ship allowed.

A continuous war from the start to the end is for me much more enjoyable than something that'd settle in a matter of 2-3 days because the weaker side ran out of the best ship and can't compete with a deathball of 25* Santi/ingermanland, therefore just quitting the fight.

 

It's not fun for the losing side that can't defend itself because the power gap is too great

And it's not fun for the winning side to just sit their rear on 3 undefended circles until the end of the war because the losing side won't come defend

[Hethwill]

Another advantage of the BR limit is if there is a need to nerf or buff a particular ship. You can just slide its Battle Ranking higher if it's too good, or lower if it's too weak.

Therefore you won't need to touch to the specifications of a ship like it's speed, turn rate, resistance etc. for balancing reasons.

 

And I would argue that having to tweak 1 value is way easier than tweaking 5+ values and trying to make them work together.

 

Again, a BR limit allows the losing/weaker faction to still put up a fight and maybe snatch a win even if they can't come up with the best ship allowed.

A continuous war from the start to the end is for me much more enjoyable than something that'd settle in a matter of 2-3 days because the weaker side ran out of the best ship and can't compete with a deathball of 25* Santi/ingermanland, therefore just quitting the fight.

 

It's not fun for the losing side that can't defend itself because the power gap is too great

And it's not fun for the winning side to just sit their rear on 3 undefended circles until the end of the war because the losing side won't come defend

 

Hence why VPs, Victory Points, must be well designed, for both Lordship awards AND war victory conditions.

[Isink A Lot]

It will not work because battles are not DOTA matches and are not pre arranged.

Letting the fleet composition into the hands of players for an important battle is a recipe for disaster - ask any clan

If you don't control entry into PB your composition will be screwed up by a couple of random joiners. Its already happening but it will become worse if there are limits

 

 

RO is not an open world game. it will not work here

You sailed your 2nd rate to a port through enemy thorns. Then you enter the battle room and given a cutter?

 

Whats the point of the OW then. RO is a lobby based shooter. You cant even choose a class if your favorite class was taken and have to run with the Kar or Mosin

 

BR limiter etc. will work in tournaments and events. But not in OW port battles where the goal of your group or nation is to destroy enemy by bringing a superior force (in skill or in guns or in both).

 

So there will be a BR limit? I like the idea because teams need to mix up and it would be the end of the 25 1st rates fleets.

 

I like the BR limit idea also, but read the thread (not just you but all asking this), Admin has said BR limit will not work for the above reasons and until the assignment of your port battle ships can be done before you sail to the port on the OW. Stop asking for it, it is not going to happen.

 

Now something like my suggestion below may be doable until the assignment of your ship can be figured out, or something better comes along. It splits up the ships into a more even BR rating and makes more ship used and more level players needed to do these port battles. We need to figure a way to involve all players in the RvR part of the game as it is 1/3 of the game. This does that I think, what do you think?

 

If we can make a change to 3 types of ports can we not make a change to 4 or 5  or even 6 types of ports? If we can do that what would the consensus be for ship sets for port battles?

 

Set 1 =1st rates (BR 900 ships)

Set 2 = 2nd & 3rd rates (BR 500 to 600 ships)

Set 3 = Constitutions & Ingermanland (BR 300 ships)

Set 4 = Essex, Trincomalee, Belle Poule, & Frigate (BR 170 to 200 ships)

Set 5 = Rnommee, Surprise, Niagara, & Cerberus (BR 100 to 140 ships)

Set 6 = Lynx, Cutter, Privateer, Pickle, Brig, Snow, Navy Brig, & Mercury (BR 20 to 70 ships)

 

Deep water would be 4 types using sets 1 to 4 with shallow two types using set 5 & 6. Is this something that is technically viable to do? Port type would be dependent on the amount of resources it produces or consumes? Would something like this work with the goal of every ship and any level captain could be useful in those port battles?

[DeRuyter]

If we can make a change to 3 types of ports can we not make a change to 4 or 5  or even 6 types of ports? If we can do that what would the consensus be for ship sets for port battles?

 

Set 1 =1st rates (BR 900 ships)

Set 2 = 2nd & 3rd rates (BR 500 to 600 ships)

Set 3 = Constitutions & Ingermanland (BR 300 ships)

Set 4 = Essex, Trincomalee, Belle Poule, & Frigate (BR 170 to 200 ships)

Set 5 = Rnommee, Surprise, Niagara, & Cerberus (BR 100 to 140 ships)

Set 6 = Lynx, Cutter, Privateer, Pickle, Brig, Snow, Navy Brig, & Mercury (BR 20 to 70 ships)

 

Deep water would be 4 types using sets 1 to 4 with shallow two types using set 5 & 6. Is this something that is technically viable to do? Port type would be dependent on the amount of resources it produces or consumes? Would something like this work with the goal of every ship and any level captain could be useful in those port battles?

 

This type of selection would come naturally if ship draft and multiple harbor depths are added when land and proper forts get in to PB.

[Isink A Lot]

This type of selection would come naturally if ship draft and multiple harbor depths are added when land and proper forts get in to PB.

Not sure natural ship drafts (read swallows and varying harbor depths) will be able to be done due to technical reasons, unless you want to buy everyone a quantum super computer. Some things would be great but are still out of reach technically. So the question is what can be done now with the tech and coding we have?

Edited May 10, 2016 by Isink A Lot

[Ledinis]

Not sure natural ship drafts (read swallows and varying harbor depths) will be able to be done due to technical reasons, unless you want to buy everyone a quantum super computer. Some things would be great but are still out of reach technically. So the question is what can be done now with the tech and coding we have?

A lot of work for the developers to code it into the game i assume, but where are you getting the idea that people will need quantum computers for something that adds almost no graphical intensity to the game. Even "Age of sails" back in 2006 had shallows. So im quite sure unless someone is running a xerox alto, they wont feel much of an influence in regards to game performance.

[Isink A Lot]

A lot of work for the developers to code it into the game i assume, but where are you getting the idea that people will need quantum computers for something that adds almost no graphical intensity to the game. Even "Age of sails" back in 2006 had shallows. So im quite sure unless someone is running a xerox alto, they wont feel much of an influence in regards to game performance.

Depends on how detailed the shallows are now doesn't it. Has nothing to do with graphics but everything to do with data points (how many) and calculations (how many per second) to and from the sever in relation to the ships you are sailing. I think the shallows we have in OW would be about what to expect and they, in that state may not give you the desired effect you're looking for. Just a guess.

[Musuko42]

Has nothing to do with graphics but everything to do with data points (how many) and calculations (how many per second) to and from the sever in relation to the ships you are sailing.

 

I think you're overstating your case, especially seeing as there already are shallows in other battles without any problems.

[DeRuyter]

Depends on how detailed the shallows are now doesn't it. Has nothing to do with graphics but everything to do with data points (how many) and calculations (how many per second) to and from the sever in relation to the ships you are sailing. I think the shallows we have in OW would be about what to expect and they, in that state may not give you the desired effect you're looking for. Just a guess.

 

Exactly. Somewhere admin said that a complete height map with a detailed collision model would be a lot of coding and may effect performance. But it does not have to be that detailed to have an effect on different ships and PB. One of the other threads on depths and draft had some good suggestions on how to add it technically. So for game play you don't have to have a detailed running around with damage model, just what we have now. Simply add in layers to the ports preventing an SOL from sailing right up under the forts guns for example.

 

Some good suggestions in this thread:

 

http://forum.game-labs.net/index.php?/topic/12929-keel-depth-system-expanding-the-water-depth-system/?hl=draft#entry235468

[Lord Vicious]

Why overcomplicate and put limit on all ?

 

put a br limit and ppl chose their composition, less ship but big, more but medium/smaller, end of story

 

 

 

Now i can sit in a port where only ingermanland are supposed to entere, when enemy pull flag i just undock and wait outside in a first rate fleet. and crash it before enters, did  you at list think before making such "features" ?

Edited May 11, 2016 by Lord Vicious

[Naughty Nancy O'Malley]

So funny!  This why every one is falling before us:  To crush your enemies, to see them driven before you, and to hear the lamentations of their women!

Crom, I have never prayed to you before. I have no tongue for it. No one, not even you, will remember if we were good men or bad. Why we fought, or why we died. All that matters is that two stood against many. That's what's important! Valor pleases you, Crom... so grant me one request. Grant me revenge! And if you do not listen, then to HELL with you!

Aesop:  "shut the help up AND just fight"

 

[Snoggy]

Can you edit the title to major changes to port battles? Not being able to take 3rd+ rates into a deep water PB is a pretty significant change to strategy.

[Cragger]

Why overcomplicate and put limit on all ?

 

put a br limit and ppl chose their composition, less ship but big, more but medium/smaller, end of story

 

 

 

Now i can sit in a port where only ingermanland are supposed to entere, when enemy pull flag i just undock and wait outside in a first rate fleet. and crash it before enters, did  you at list think before making such "features" ?

 

And once you are in battle the way is clear for others. This isn't a problem infact before 1st rate death ball fleets and when ports actually could be contested there was more people fighting outside the port battle then in it, or did you forget three months ago already?

[Snoggy]

Why overcomplicate and put limit on all ?

 

put a br limit and ppl chose their composition, less ship but big, more but medium/smaller, end of story

 

 

 

Now i can sit in a port where only ingermanland are supposed to entere, when enemy pull flag i just undock and wait outside in a first rate fleet. and crash it before enters, did  you at list think before making such "features" ?

 

 

Now instead of focusing on first rates, clans can churn out 30 or 40 4th rates and really stop caring about where their big fleets are. Much easier to station 4th rates all over the map and throw them away if you don't need them.

[Paint]

There will be no wipe - please stop listening to rumors about wipes. Wipes if happen will be announced 30 days in advance. The next wipe that will happen (dont know when) will only reset all ports to neutral on pvp servers, nothing else will be affected.

 

Also. 

No one knows anything special - even mods. No special information was given to anyone. 

As usual keep expectations low and you might be pleasantly surprised.

Basically always expect the worst something like this "this game will fail as all indie games. Ship combat is good and will get better, the rest will only get worse"

 

ps several old timers (most of them also volunteer mods) were asked to test the bugs on two new ships before the patch, to see if they are not broken and can actually perform before given to testers. We found lately that users dont like broken things during alphas (strangely).

Port Wipe is confirmed by admin. 

[Musuko42]

Port Wipe is confirmed by admin. 

 

Do you have a source for that? Link?

[Paint]

Do you have a source for that? Link?

Look at my Quote.

This is the Topic if you want to read the whole conversation but couldn´t find it / Didnt have enough time:

http://forum.game-labs.net/index.php?/topic/13899-please-provide-fair-information-for-the-whole-community/

Edited May 12, 2016 by Paint

[Lucas Corso]

Eventual port wipe is confirmed by devs and they will give us 30 days notice of it. So not this patch.

Edited May 12, 2016 by Lucien Delmonte

[Z-fuzi]

Port Wipe is confirmed by admin. 

 

Can you give us the link of the quote you did please ? I don't find it.

 

ps : just above, sry ...

Edited May 12, 2016 by Z-fuzi

[Musuko42]

Look at my Quote.

 

As Lucien says, that only confirms that there will be a port wipe at some point. It doesn't confirm that there will be one with this next patch.

 

Even though you didn't specifically say there would be a wipe in the next patch, the fact that you said "port wipe confirmed" in a thread about the next patch, it seemed to me that was your meaning.

[Fastidius]

So i have had a really good think about this and this will break the game......unless population is high all your doing is making all port battles about population at a specific time....any man and his dog can turn up to these battles and buy flags across the board so there is likely going to be very little way to make progress on an opposition because connies a day to make....

 

it wont work and i predict a failure that will be obvious in the first week with this population level